The Ego and the ID2. Comment #19906 by 601 on January 30, 2007 at 3:30 pm
3. Comment #19907 by Mango on January 30, 2007 at 3:34 pm
4. Comment #19915 by cheshirecat on January 30, 2007 at 4:16 pm
I swear there wasn't a man in England who took intelligent design seriously before Dawkins started attacking it. Within twenty years of Darwin and Wallace evolution was accepted. If there is a rise in its popularity I will lay the blame squarely at his door and the attempts to dig up the bones of this debate. He's the professor of 'the public understanding of science' not the professor of attacking American religious loonies. They foam at the mouth, he foams at the mouth - none of us have learnt anything. And now he's got me ranting. For what its worth (not much) I think Dawkins and the religious right deserve each other. Long may they tear strips out of each other in the sports halls of American colleges.5. Comment #19918 by Ben Jennings on January 30, 2007 at 4:29 pm
6. Comment #19923 by cheshirecat on January 30, 2007 at 4:50 pm
It is true. No one had heard of it. Its an American invention of the early 20th century with which we could do without importing. Around the time they went and invented that delightful brand of evangelism in the 20s and 30s they decided that clever people weren't to be trusted.7. Comment #19926 by MacGruder on January 30, 2007 at 5:13 pm
Dear cheshirecat,8. Comment #19927 by Duff on January 30, 2007 at 5:19 pm
God rolled his eyes when He heard that Dawkins was questioning the intelligence of the Intelligent Design folks. (notice I capitolized the ID folks).9. Comment #19929 by Convertedchristian on January 30, 2007 at 5:28 pm
Sense we seem to be talking about schools teaching id, let me tell you a story that you will enjoy. I live in Arkansas and we have churches everywhere in town. I went to church last week to please my parents who do not know that I'm an atheist. When I got there were 6 students including me. We sat there and talked about the bible and I tried to stay quiet. Well it turns out that 5 of those 6 kids in my 11 grade Sunday school class were in the closet atheist. No joke. It seems to me that a majority of people say they are Christians but they are either lying or not acting like Christians. And this is in Arkansas. Times are changing. I would say that in my school of 1200 at least 60% are not religious.(that was not a scientific answer just an observation) Thank you Richard Dawkins. His book is the first thing I see when I walk into the science section in our bookstore. Just thought I would give you all some good news.10. Comment #19935 by Reg on January 30, 2007 at 6:08 pm
11. Comment #19949 by MacGruder on January 30, 2007 at 8:28 pm
Convertedchristian - when I hear stories like yours it makes me question the methodology of surveys that are often quoted in relation to the number of people who believe in a god. I remember when I was in my early teens (~1970s) and how it was very common to state your religion when completing surveys or applications. I would automatically write the religion of my mother even though I didn't believe in god or attend church. The assumption of anyone reviewing the data would conlcude that I was religious/believe in god. I often wonder how many people today follow similar practices when answering surveys?12. Comment #19971 by AdrianB on January 31, 2007 at 12:07 am
13. Comment #19988 by cheshirecat on January 31, 2007 at 2:14 am
Ok so maybe I was being stupid. I just don't like it when Dawkins says things like 'religion is child abuse'. That is a prime example of something for which there is no evidence.14. Comment #19992 by Luthien on January 31, 2007 at 2:45 am
15. Comment #20018 by Old Coppernose on January 31, 2007 at 5:03 am
Thank you Richard Dawkins. His book is the first thing I see when I walk into the science section in our bookstore. Just thought I would give you all some good news.
16. Comment #20019 by cheshirecat on January 31, 2007 at 5:05 am
On the contrary, I think you are naive to take Dawkins at his word when he makes such gross generalisations. The study of religion in modern society is a social science. Give me some evidence that a conventional religious upbringing does children any damage. Has anyone written a paper on this or do they consider it too absurd to even bother testing it?17. Comment #20033 by cheshirecat on January 31, 2007 at 5:56 am
I once heard that a far greater proportion of church goers and christians were female. I wondered if anyone could back this up/had heard it before? I certainly know that anyone professing religious belief at my school was thought slightly effeminate. I wonder if this has something to do with it.18. Comment #20036 by Old Coppernose on January 31, 2007 at 6:01 am
Comment #20019 by cheshirecat on January 31, 2007 at 5:05 am
On the contrary, I think you are naive to take Dawkins at his word when he makes such gross generalisations. The study of religion in modern society is a social science. Give me some evidence that a conventional religious upbringing does children any damage. Has anyone written a paper on this or do they consider it too absurd to even bother testing it?
19. Comment #20047 by Old Coppernose on January 31, 2007 at 6:39 am
Comment #20033 by cheshirecat on January 31, 2007 at 5:56 am
I once heard that a far greater proportion of church goers and christians were female. I wondered if anyone could back this up/had heard it before? I certainly know that anyone professing religious belief at my school was thought slightly effeminate. I wonder if this has something to do with it.
20. Comment #20048 by mdowe on January 31, 2007 at 6:46 am
21. Comment #20054 by rationalteacher on January 31, 2007 at 7:20 am
Dear Cheshirecat22. Comment #20073 by poppythinks on January 31, 2007 at 8:41 am
23. Comment #20099 by cheshirecat on January 31, 2007 at 11:00 am
The criminal population used to be made up of Catholics because Catholics were Irish and poorer and so more likely to commit crime. Now it is because Eastern Europeans are more likely to be poorer and commit crime and also are more likely to be Cathoic. Religion has nothing to do with it. The prisons of the big port cities used to be full of Catholics.24. Comment #20100 by cheshirecat on January 31, 2007 at 11:01 am
Anecdotes are not evidence. They cannot be quantified. You can prove any statement you like with single instances. I have many of my own for people of all faiths who have been brought up to be sensible (in my opinion). Nevertheless I'd like our teacher to give us some examples of what sort of thing worries her/him. Oh and I thought coppernose's comments were interesting and informative. What I'd really want however is someone who could point in the direction of an academic paper on this matter.25. Comment #20112 by fonex_86 on January 31, 2007 at 12:51 pm
cheshirecat:26. Comment #20116 by kmccardle on January 31, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Chesirecat, anyone would be hard pressed to come up with an academic paper about any of this because there hasn't been one yet. But that's not to say there won't be one in the future, or that the point isn't valid. But in this world that is still heavily religiously led it will be hard for someone to get funding to test something like this. Can you imagine anyone asking the religiously-right American governemt for funding to look for the negative effects of religious upbringing on children? But again, just because no one has done the solid research yet doesn't mean that the effects aren't there.27. Comment #20118 by intelligentperson on January 31, 2007 at 1:33 pm
id makes no sense,its just a way to make the concept of god more palatable,you are silly with your ignorant beliefs cheshirecat,28. Comment #20154 by cheshirecat on January 31, 2007 at 3:55 pm
I am 'silly and ignorant'. I don't recall ever believing in intelligent design though.29. Comment #20166 by Old Coppernose on January 31, 2007 at 5:10 pm
I would just like to add that a Catholic upbringing never stopped Mendel doing the first genetic experiments with peas and he was a monk at the time (later abbot of his monastery) at the same time Darwin was writing his great work. He's one of the forgotten heroes of the movement often referred to as the 'father of genetics' though the importance of his paper was only discovered later.
30. Comment #20169 by cheshirecat on January 31, 2007 at 5:32 pm
Well then I don't think darwin should get all the credit when his grandfather first formulated some of the ideas of natural selection in 'zoonomia' and the 'temple of nature'. He added the motto 'E conchis omnia' (everything from shells) to his family crest. This was in the 1760s so no one can say these ideas werent floating around.31. Comment #20183 by Feuerbach on January 31, 2007 at 9:43 pm
cheshirecat, your arguments are nothing short of banal. What one would expect of a fundamentalist zealot - matters of mere convenience to prop up your intractable viewpoint. Entering into a debate with your kind is like shouting at a log.32. Comment #20187 by fonex_86 on January 31, 2007 at 10:21 pm
cheshirecat:33. Comment #20189 by roach on January 31, 2007 at 10:37 pm
Death isn't a natural phenomena?34. Comment #20298 by Old Coppernose on February 1, 2007 at 3:27 pm
Comment #20169 by cheshirecat on January 31, 2007 at 5:32 pm
Well then I don't think darwin should get all the credit when his grandfather first formulated some of the ideas of natural selection in 'zoonomia' and the 'temple of nature'. He added the motto 'E conchis omnia' (everything from shells) to his family crest. This was in the 1760s so no one can say these ideas werent floating around
35. Comment #20310 by cheshirecat on February 1, 2007 at 5:20 pm
Of course the sociologist Max Weber thought that the 'protestant work ethic' was responsible for the rise of modern capitalism and all its joys and failings.36. Comment #20312 by cheshirecat on February 1, 2007 at 5:34 pm
Also. Why Oliver Cromwell?37. Comment #20320 by roach on February 1, 2007 at 7:00 pm
cheshirecat,38. Comment #20381 by cheshirecat on February 2, 2007 at 4:51 am
I'm not messing around. I'm just playing with a few ideas seeing what criticisms people come up with.This article is reposted from a website that accepts comments.
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1. Comment #19904 by AdrianB on January 30, 2007 at 3:17 pm
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