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Thursday, March 29, 2007 | Reason : In the News | print version Print | Comments

Document John Paul Sainthood Nun 'Gentle, Simple'

by Jenny Barchfield in Paris and Nicole Winfield

Reposted from the NYTimes:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Pope-John-Paul-Sainthood.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Thanks to Matthias Hoppenworth for sending this our way.

The French nun whose testimony of a mystery cure from Parkinson's disease could prompt the Roman Catholic Church to beatify Pope John Paul II is a gentle, simple woman who is ''deeply moved'' by what has happened to her, a priest who knows her said Thursday.

Sister Marie-Simon-Pierre's identity had been kept quiet until Wednesday, when a French newspaper published her name.

Some of her colleagues in the church were still reluctant Thursday to talk much about her.

But the Rev. Robert Aliger, a spokesman for the Diocese of Aix-en-Provence, described a humble nun who went through an ''incredible'' experience -- an unexplained recovery from Parkinson's after she and her community of nuns prayed to John Paul.

''All those that knew her before and after see clearly that she is cured,'' he said in a telephone interview.

The diocese in southeast France finished its yearlong investigation into the nun's claims last week and will present its conclusions in Rome.

Its investigation was based on medical records, blood-test results, X-rays and doctors' reports, ''so that the bishop can present a solid dossier in Rome,'' Aliger said.

''It's a voluminous dossier,'' he said. ''There are five boxes -- I saw them -- of originals and a big box of X-rays.''

The nun ''had tears in her eyes'' at the closing session of the investigation, he added.

''She is a gentle, reserved woman,'' he said. ''She is a very simple, very ordinary person who is, I think, deeply moved by what happened to her.''

The nun also underwent a psychiatric evaluation and had her handwriting analyzed, since a change in handwriting is a classic symptom of Parkinson's disease, the Rome-based cleric spearheading her cause, Monsignor Slawomir Oder, said this week.

Normally, psychiatric evaluations are not typical for church investigations into purported miracles, but Oder said church officials wanted to be particularly sure in this case and that the results were ''very reassuring.''

Only one document about the long-mysterious nun's experience has been made public: an article she wrote for ''Totus Tuus,'' the official magazine of John Paul's beatification case.

She wrote of being diagnosed with Parkinson's in June 2001, having a strong spiritual affinity for John Paul because he too suffered from the disease and suffering worsened symptoms in the weeks after the pope died on April 2, 2005.

The nuns of her community prayed for her, and exactly two months after the pontiff's death, she awoke in the middle of the night cured, she wrote. The nun is a member of the ''Congregation of Little Sisters of Catholic Motherhood'' in Aix-en-Provence.

The nun is expected to travel to Rome for ceremonies marking the second anniversary of John Paul's death and the closure of a church investigation into his life, which began after chants of ''Santo subito!'' or ''Sainthood now!'' erupted during his 2005 funeral.

The Vatican's saint-making process requires that John Paul's life and writings be studied for its virtues. The Vatican also requires that a miracle attributed to his intercession be confirmed, before he can be beatified -- the last formal step before possible sainthood.

Pope Benedict XVI announced in May 2005 that he was waiving the traditional five-year waiting period and allowing the beatification process to begin. There is still no word on when any beatification or canonization might occur.

------

Associated Press writers Jenny Barchfield in Paris and Nicole Winfield in Rome contributed to this report.

Comments 1 - 34 of 34 |

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1. Comment #28504 by js5535 on March 29, 2007 at 1:05 pm

 avatarIt's a pity that the prayer of a billion Catholics for several years didn't miraculously cure Pope John Paul II of Parkinsons.

Other Comments by js5535

2. Comment #28505 by mjwemdee on March 29, 2007 at 1:09 pm

 avatarThe stench of piety emanating from this article is making me nauseous.

Bleaaaagh!!!!

Other Comments by mjwemdee

3. Comment #28507 by Rtambree on March 29, 2007 at 1:19 pm

If you get cured, it's the Lord's grace.

If you don't get cured, the Lord works in mysterious ways.

If you get worse, the Lord is testing your faith.

If medical science makes you better, the Lord gave us reason and should be praised.

If you don't survive the illness, the Lord called you to Him.

If Charles Manson butchered your family, the Lord gave us free will.

Other Comments by Rtambree

5. Comment #28509 by scottishgeologist on March 29, 2007 at 1:48 pm

 avataryou know, the fundie evangies will dismiss this as a load of "idolatrous, God-dishonouring, satanic, superstitious nonsense" They refer to the Pope as a "man of sin, son of perdition" - they'll quote the Westminster confession, describing him as the Antichrist, they'll back it up with scripture (2 Thessalonians 2: 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.)

And after they've vented this sort of spleen, you'll no doubt get a "catholics all going to hell" just to finish the rant. So there.

This is standard reformed, calvinistic, fundie stuff.

But wait.... they both CANT be right, can they.... at LEAST one of them is wrong. Couldnt be both now could it.... could it....? Surely not....

Other Comments by scottishgeologist

6. Comment #28511 by Rtambree on March 29, 2007 at 1:56 pm

5. Comment #28509 by scottishgeologist

'4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.'

This definition would capture all Christians who, by definition, worship Jesus Christ, son of Mary.

Other Comments by Rtambree

7. Comment #28519 by cheshirecat on March 29, 2007 at 2:29 pm

"This definition would capture all Christians who, by definition, worship Jesus Christ, son of Mary"


Have you never heard of the trinity. Jesus christ is God you ignorant heathen.

Other Comments by cheshirecat

8. Comment #28520 by macronencer on March 29, 2007 at 2:33 pm

 avatarMy only response to this is curiosity. I now find myself wanting to go and research the stats on spontaneous cures...

Other Comments by macronencer

9. Comment #28523 by lpetrich on March 29, 2007 at 2:49 pm

 avatarHas anyone else noticed how paltry and pathetic these miracles seem like by the standards of the miracles allegedly worked by saints in centuries past like St. Francis Xavier and St. Genevieve? Or the miracles of the Bible?

Where have all the "big" miracles gone? Do miracles have some "shyness effect"?

I recall that David Hume pointed out the rarity of contemporary miracles in his Essay on Miracles 250 years ago -- and it's still true today.

Other Comments by lpetrich

10. Comment #28530 by humanist on March 29, 2007 at 3:50 pm

so.. Praying to the pope (a false god - something to be killed for) has apparently cured one nun of one disease. Despite the hundreds of thousands of people that the pope killed with his condom ban in Africa, and indeed, around the world, he's still deserving of a sainthood?

By any logical moral compass, I'm a hundred thousand times the better man. I deserve a hundred thousand sainthoods or, I suppose, to be deified ten thousand times. So do you. Unless you're George Bush.

Other Comments by humanist

11. Comment #28532 by tom70 on March 29, 2007 at 4:05 pm

medical question for anyone that could tell me. what do you use X-rays for when following parkinsons? especially a big box worth of them. they surely can't tell you much about the limbic system which is where i thought the problem was?

Other Comments by tom70

12. Comment #28534 by ftvt on March 29, 2007 at 4:22 pm

If her Parkinson's comes back, do they revoke the sainthood? :-)

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13. Comment #28536 by Rtambree on March 29, 2007 at 4:31 pm

9. Comment #28523 by lpetrich

>Where have all the "big" miracles gone?

Obviously God couldn't be arsed anymore. He's gone outside for a smoke, and an intern is handling the miracle-requests whilst learning the instruction manual.

Other Comments by Rtambree

14. Comment #28541 by Greywizard on March 29, 2007 at 4:49 pm

Thanks to Rtambree for this wonderfully succinct summary of some common religious claims:

'If you get cured, it's the Lord's grace.

If you don't get cured, the Lord works in mysterious ways.

If you get worse, the Lord is testing your faith.

If medical science makes you better, the Lord gave us reason and should be praised.

If you don't survive the illness, the Lord called you to Him.

If Charles Manson butchered your family, the Lord gave us free will.'

This is great, and worth repeating. Thanks.

In "The Demon-Haunted World" Carl Sagan pointed out that natural remissions of cancer occurred at a fairly fixed rate, and that the rate of remission of those with cancer going to Lourdes was much lower than average (possibly because Lourdes attracts those in extremis). Does anyone know what the remission rate is for people suffering from Parkinsons' Disease?

Perhaps the church could also explain how it could be known that prayers 'to' John Paul II brought about healing for the good sister, and not prayers to God or Jesus or Mary or some other saint. Surely, all prayers on her behalf were not addressed to a dead pope.

There is a funny passage in TGD, as I recall, where Dawkins pokes fun at the idea that John Paul II seemed to know that it was Our Lady of Fatima that deflected the bullet aimed at his heart, and not Our Lady of Guadalupe, or Our Lady of Medjugorje. Perhaps the best response to the kind of idiocy represented in this report is simple old-fashioned mockery.

Other Comments by Greywizard

15. Comment #28552 by Rtambree on March 29, 2007 at 5:18 pm

I wonder if anyone really believes in prayer, when push comes to shove.

Even religious people call an ambulance when their children get run over on the street.

If they *really* believed, wouldn't they want their loved ones to go to Heaven and be happy, free of all pain, stress and suffering, in perpetual Willy Wonker Land?

Other Comments by Rtambree

16. Comment #28565 by neander on March 29, 2007 at 7:42 pm

 avatarIf she was praying why did she get parkinson's in the first place? Maybe prayer would work better if they prayed for something more reliable - like the sun coming up, ot the world turning.

Other Comments by neander

17. Comment #28566 by BaronOchs on March 29, 2007 at 7:50 pm

 avatarWith Parkinson's was she thus afflicted, that God thereby might glorify his servant John Paul . . .

who will probably become patron saint of parkinsons sufferers.

What? that's four star religious logic!

Anyhow they want to get him sainted as soon as poss to make it more difficult for catholics to dissent over any of the issues he took a strong stance on like birth control, women priests, married priests abortion and so forth.

Other Comments by BaronOchs

18. Comment #28575 by Richard Morgan on March 29, 2007 at 11:28 pm

 avatarWhat on earth is the point of publishing this kind of "news" here, of all places? This is just "Business as usual" for the Catholic Church.
I'd be more interested in reading about some atheist miracles.
Here's one to set the ball rolling:
In 2001, after having devoutly NOT prayed for several years, I was miraculously NOT in the vicinity of the AZF factory in Toulouse when it exploded. According to initial studies (though this needs to be verified) a large number of other people (atheists all) were not there either.
Duh.....

Other Comments by Richard Morgan

19. Comment #28581 by nick_127 on March 30, 2007 at 1:11 am

tom 70 - Parkinsonian disorders can be characterised by a build up of excessive amounts of iron in the brain. This may be one reason why X - rays are taken.

Brushing aside several other possible lines of debunking for a second. One of the main discoveries to come from the new field of research into the psychosomatic effect, is that the dopamine neurotransmitter system is heavily implicated. Parkinson's Disease, put simply, is a dopamine deficieny. If any medical condition was going to be suseptable to being cured by belief, mind over matter, what ever you want to call it, Parkinson's would appear to be the front runner. Wouldn't be my first choice for an explaination for the subject of the article, just a thought.

Other Comments by nick_127

20. Comment #28586 by NJS on March 30, 2007 at 1:45 am

According to the bible aren't all mental illnesses caused by demonic posession?

Or is that another "metaphor" - ie a biblical fact which when proved to be nonsense becomes a linguistic device the authors didn't know about.

I sometimes find it a shame that doctors are so "dedicated" - I think some people deserve to be told to go away and pray if their "faith" is so much better than science.

Other Comments by NJS

21. Comment #28588 by Corylus on March 30, 2007 at 2:20 am

 avatarIsn't it interesting that this is a miraculous, non-scientific 'cure' for a illness that stem cell research might help with??

This quite put me off my cornflakes this morning.

Other Comments by Corylus

22. Comment #28589 by Philip1978 on March 30, 2007 at 2:57 am

 avatarSomething in the region of 6 billion people on this planet, don't know how many suffering from Parkinsons but I imagine its a heck of a lot. I imagine the chances of recovery are consistent with the laws of probability, one person prays to her dead pope to cure her and suddenly WOW, its a miracle! I saw on UTube that theres this chap who asks what is the daftest thing they have ever heard in the name of religion, this one has to be high up on the list simply because of the millions of monkeys who are going to wake up this morning and believe it without being put off their cornflakes!

Other Comments by Philip1978

23. Comment #28592 by nickthelight on March 30, 2007 at 3:23 am

 avatar....."The Vatican also requires that a miracle attributed to his intercession be confirmed, before he can be beatified -- the last formal step before possible sainthood".

The last FORMAL step! I'd like very much like to know what the others are, surely they must be empirical as there is apparently a tangible result (at lest for the nun) therefore the scientific and especially the medical community would be very interested!!! Prayer on the NHS- hmmmm. REFORM NOW!


Other Comments by nickthelight

24. Comment #28597 by eccles on March 30, 2007 at 4:17 am

 avatarI suppose this Nun had John Paul's direct toll-free phone number: 0410 ("Oh, for one nun")

Other Comments by eccles

25. Comment #28616 by Hugo on March 30, 2007 at 6:05 am

 avatarA simple search in Google and the first result was this:

http://www.pdrecovery.org/

Catholics do not have first dibs on miracle recovery from Parkinson.
I'm not in the medical field but I'm starting to think that Parkinson in some cases just cures itself allowing for miracle scams.

Other Comments by Hugo

26. Comment #28643 by Gourdboy on March 30, 2007 at 8:23 am

How many more beaming pious faces am I going to have to stare at wonderingly now. Pointing to this "news story" as some sort of proof as to the existence of at least some sort of supernatural power. Stare at them I will. Using every ounce of my being to somehow push splinters of reason past the grates of their stupid-grills.

These sort of stories really depress me. Talk about fanning the flames of ingnorance.

Other Comments by Gourdboy

27. Comment #28648 by RickM on March 30, 2007 at 8:38 am

 avatarI say unto you; whomsoever believeith this bull shit, haveth a screw loose.

Other Comments by RickM

28. Comment #28664 by cerad on March 30, 2007 at 10:18 am

 avatarWonder why the soon to be St Johnny hates the millions of people currently suffering from Parkinson's so much that he refuses to cure them? They must be really bad people. Maybe they all ate meat on Friday.

Other Comments by cerad

29. Comment #28666 by GordonHide on March 30, 2007 at 10:23 am

A bit like having the casino's own security team carry out the investigation to see if the tables are fixed

Other Comments by GordonHide

30. Comment #28677 by sane1 on March 30, 2007 at 11:09 am

 avatarYou know, it is such a shame that the pope didn't cure himself before he died...

Other Comments by sane1

31. Comment #28691 by don malvado on March 30, 2007 at 12:05 pm

I just clocked $1000 in solitaire, considering how much I usually loose this is a miracle to be attributed to Ozzie Osborne.

I demand instant beatification!!

Other Comments by don malvado

32. Comment #28700 by A on March 30, 2007 at 12:30 pm

Silly old men and women playing with each others desires.

"She is a gentle, reserved woman,'' he said. ''She is a very simple, very ordinary person"

Why do they tell us this >

Other Comments by A

33. Comment #28829 by GBile on March 31, 2007 at 5:32 am

 avatar
Pope Benedict XVI announced in May 2005 that he was waiving the traditional five-year waiting period and allowing the beatification process to begin


This 'waiving' seems to be popular among leaders, but often it is to prevent possible 'criminal charges'.

The whole story reminds me of the 'beatification' process of a dutch nun. Her miracle was that, many years later (no waiving here), a woman (are these always women ?) attributed to said nun her 'mystery cure' for ... 'Athlete's foot'.
The amazing deeds these deities perform to cure their flock !

Other Comments by GBile

34. Comment #28867 by FXR on March 31, 2007 at 11:59 am

 avatarWhile it is usual to speculate on how people are cured of these illnesses I think it is more pertinent to ask how they get them in the first place. I was raised in the Catholic Church in Ireland.

The central message of Catholic schooling is: Self inflicted Suffering = Good Person

Jaysus split himself in two (or three) and got himself flailed and nailed just for you isn't he wonderful.

The mind is a powerful thing and the power of suggestion is well documented. I find it perfectly plausible that a devout believer thoroughly brainwashed could well subconsciously give themselves an illness. It is also perfectly plausible to believe they could spontaneously divest themselves of that ilness to support their religion.
In a way someone who inflicts suffering on themselves is imitating the story fabricated in the Bible.

FXR
God who?

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