1. Comment #88666 by Janus on November 18, 2007 at 12:40 pm

This is all very confusing. Are we certain that Ayaan Hirsi Ali needs our money?

Other Comments by Janus

2. Comment #88667 by dthuleen on November 18, 2007 at 12:48 pm

Certainty is hard to come by, so no, we are not.

But if she doesn't, I'm only $10 a month poorer. I'll take that chance.

Other Comments by dthuleen

3. Comment #88668 by Fanusi Khiyal on November 18, 2007 at 12:50 pm

Janus I hope that comment isn't what it looks like.

Anyway, hop to it people! This an opportunity to put our money where our mouths are!

Other Comments by Fanusi Khiyal

4. Comment #88669 by Logicel on November 18, 2007 at 12:51 pm

In the event that money remains after these costs have been met, it will be used to encourage and protect other dissidents in the Muslim world.
_____

I support this; this is important, put your money where your mouth is.

Other Comments by Logicel

5. Comment #88682 by Quine on November 18, 2007 at 1:51 pm

I read her book, Infidel, last week; it was riveting. I am buying copies and handing them out to people I know who need their world views expanded. This both supports her and makes the world more enlightened. It irritates me that the threats against her have successfully isolated her from the public.

I would like her to do a series of lectures that can be put up on the web with some kind of micropayment system for download. I know RDF is going into video production; perhaps there can be some link up. The point would be to counteract the imposed isolation, and let her voice be heard.

EDIT: My money is in.

Other Comments by Quine

6. Comment #88684 by SilentMike on November 18, 2007 at 2:03 pm

This is all very confusing. Are we certain that Ayaan Hirsi Ali needs our money?

Even if she doesn't (and you never really know if there's going to be an assassin waiting in the bushes till he or she strikes) others do and will. People that are contemplating whether or not to speak up need to know that we take care of whistle blowers like Ayaan Hirsi Ali. I'm going to see about making a modest contribution.

Other Comments by SilentMike

7. Comment #88686 by steve99 on November 18, 2007 at 2:09 pm

I am puzzled by this request. My vague understanding is that the Dutch government was not prepared to pay for the protection of a citizen on foreign soil, but if she returned to Holland, they would pay. Is the USA government not prepared to protect foreigners who they have welcomed into their territory?

What is going on?

Other Comments by steve99

8. Comment #88691 by 82abhilash on November 18, 2007 at 2:27 pm

I am just wondering. What if Sam Harris is not able to raise enough money? What would he do with that which is already contributed? He has said what he would do if there is an excess, but what if it is deficient?

Other Comments by 82abhilash

9. Comment #88692 by theantitheist on November 18, 2007 at 2:34 pm

If she goes' back to her adopted country they will continue to pay for her security and as such the decision to remain in America and carry on her work is one that she has taken with full knowledge of the consequences.

Without wanting to sound negative this is a women who has earned a substantial amount from her work and who has a company who are earning a substantial amount from her work.

We all have to make decisions and if you think it will help, donate the money, if you think that money can be better spent elsewhere or if you can't afford to support someone who takes home (well home as in where she hangs her hat)a lot more then most then spend it on your own living costs.

P.S. Has she come out and said she can't afford it and would like contributions or is Sam coming out with well meaning but redundant intentions?

Other Comments by theantitheist

10. Comment #88694 by jaytee_555 on November 18, 2007 at 3:08 pm

My initial reaction was to support Sam Harris' suggestion, but on reflection, I'd like some of the questions raised above to be answered before I decide.

Other Comments by jaytee_555

11. Comment #88696 by Spinoza on November 18, 2007 at 3:18 pm

Am I the only one who finds it odd that there are options for $20,000 one-time, or $1000 monthly donations to that trust?

Maybe Ayaan would be more comfortable (and cheaper to protect) up here in Canada?

Other Comments by Spinoza

12. Comment #88697 by eXcommunicate on November 18, 2007 at 3:18 pm

As much as we all respect Ayaan Hirsi Ali, can she not afford her own security? She seems reasonably well-off. I'd prefer such a campaign of contributions be aimed elsewhere, not at Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Perhaps making the secondary goal of Sam's drive, protecting other dissidents, the primary goal instead. Ayaan Hirsi Ali could be a good public face for such a campaign.

Other Comments by eXcommunicate

13. Comment #88698 by almondo on November 18, 2007 at 3:22 pm

Coincidently I just finished reading Bruce Bawer's "While Europe Slept" yesterday. I had no idea how dangerous the situation was for someone outspoken like Hirsi Ali - it definitely seems like there are folks who would like to kill her.

This really feels like a chance for us rationalists to put our money where our mouths are, and I doubt that Sam Harris would make this request unless it was needed - I'm filling out my donation form today.

Other Comments by almondo

14. Comment #88700 by SilentMike on November 18, 2007 at 3:33 pm

10. Comment #88694 by jaytee_555

My initial reaction was to support Sam Harris' suggestion, but on reflection, I'd like some of the questions raised above to be answered before I decide.

It is allways good to get more information. Maybe Sam should elaborate and answer the questions that have been raised. This is in no way intended to be disrespectful of Sam Harris or to cast doubt on the purity of his intentions. It's just that we are an inquisitive skeptical lot after all and some explanations may be in order. I'm sure that good answers will bring about an increase in donations.

Other Comments by SilentMike

15. Comment #88703 by denoir on November 18, 2007 at 3:39 pm

I am puzzled by this request. My vague understanding is that the Dutch government was not prepared to pay for the protection of a citizen on foreign soil, but if she returned to Holland, they would pay.

They would and they are as she is living in the Netherlands right now. This seems to me more of a drive to finance her move to the US. And it seems to me like it is something she should finance herself.

Other Comments by denoir

16. Comment #88704 by Zaphod on November 18, 2007 at 3:40 pm

I will buy both of her books(was planning to anyway). She can use the proceeds of that to contribute to her security and I get two books to read.

Perhaps America should fit the bill for her security since they are fighting a war on terror and she is being terrorised by religious bigots. I guess that doesn't make Halliburton and Blackwater as much money as invading a country does.

Other Comments by Zaphod

17. Comment #88706 by BaronOchs on November 18, 2007 at 3:44 pm

Not that I doubt you but can you corroborate that denoir? Will the Netherlands continue to pay for her security indefinitely?

Otherwise though she shouldn't have to pay for it herself even if she is uhh well to do. It is like several million dollars a year.

Other Comments by BaronOchs

18. Comment #88707 by MelM on November 18, 2007 at 3:46 pm

FYI, there is a post requesting donations on the Ayaan Hirsi Ali blog itself:

http://ayaanhirsiali.web-log.nl/ayaanhirsiali/2007/10/providing_finan.html

This includes the direct bank address which is the same as given by Harris.

Assuming that she is in control of the blog, I conclude that this security fund project has her endorsement.

I also see this as mass defiance of Islamic jihad and just what's needed; I'll proudly participate.

Other Comments by MelM

19. Comment #88714 by ASonOfLiberty on November 18, 2007 at 4:15 pm

A better urgent Appeal!

Professor, please meet, debate, and humiliate Dinesh. He claims to refute the atheistic position through reasoning and science, which is your turf.

Hitch failed, as did Shermer. You are our only hope.

http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/DineshDSouza/2007/11/12/are_atheists_the_new_gays

Other Comments by ASonOfLiberty

20. Comment #88716 by GoatBoy36 on November 18, 2007 at 4:24 pm

It may be the case that the Dutch authorities will finance the protection of Ayaan Hirsi Ali if she remains in the Netherlands. There are two things I would say to that however. If one is familiar with her story one will remember the difficulties posed the last time round: a group of her neighbours took legal action due to the increased danger they believed they were in, and she was pretty much forced to move from where she was living. So staying put in Holland may not be as straightforward as one might think. Secondly, I wonder why on earth should anyone, let alone such a courageous and vibrant personality, be *forced* to remain within the borders of what is after all a relatively small country because religious assassins will find it easier to kill her if she travels anywhere else? Who thinks that's right, or acceptable? I certainly don't.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali may indeed have made some money from her book "Infidel" but why should she have to spend that money just making sure she stays alive? I think that everyone on this website who "talks the talk" and argues against the evil acts committed in the name of religion today, should now take this opportunity to "walk the walk". Help Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and by doing so, let the world know that helping others *is* part of the atheistic worldview. (We've all heard the charge that non-believers see no reason to behave in such a way, since they have no real "morals" etc.)

Fight the forces of religious terrorism in the world today by clicking your mouse a few times. Twenty five dollars American - that's the price of a DVD. It's really not much to ask.


Other Comments by GoatBoy36

21. Comment #88717 by DavidJMH on November 18, 2007 at 4:32 pm

Ladies and Gentlemen,
The typical American response is "don't actually do anything just throw money at it so as not to be in the line of fire". Ms. Ali probably could use money as we all could but more importantly she could use our actions, words and deeds more.
Everytime a Jew, Christian or Muslim bigot, which incidently means all of them, so much as hints they should be treated specially, speak directly without fear or rancour and ask for the evidence that supports their beliefs. Their discomfort and anger shows they know it is all BS; face them down. Is there risk? Certainly. The earlier we all do this, the sooner we can stop their ignorance.
Yours sincerely, David J. Millea-Hunt.

Other Comments by DavidJMH

22. Comment #88719 by pete on November 18, 2007 at 4:53 pm

I consider it an honor to have Ms. Ali in my country, and I gladly donated.

As much as I would like her security to be provided by the U.S. government (one of the very few nonexistent-god damned things that the government SHOULD be doing), I would a thousand times more like to see the people of the U.S. rally behind her.

Other Comments by pete

23. Comment #88720 by Vinelectric on November 18, 2007 at 4:56 pm

Goatboy wrote

Think about living such a limited life, for just a moment. Would you do it? More to the point: should you *have* to do it?

If her security difficulties weren't so well publicized maybe she'd be a bit safer anyway.


To answer your question, I personally wouldn't. But neither did she have to collaborate with the man who kept on referring to a whole community of muslims as "goatfuckers" and said that Jews climax on the mention of Auschwitz. Sometimes people wind up as heroes of free speech by following the footsteps of the scum of the earth. How ironic.

Why not follow the examples of Wafa Sultan and Muhammad Arkon (especially the latter) whose efforts on secularising the muslim world have found an audience among those who see no need for Hirsi Ali's disgusting "submission" film project. You'll find Arkon's works on public libraries while none of Hirsi Ali's books are ever likely to reach out to the community that concerns her most.

If she stays in the Netherlands and take a few years leave from the spotlight she has the option to resurface with a less poignant and more effective approach as opposed to the direct provocation that neither she nor her country's government is able to cope with (financially). And dare I say of no consequence outside Alice Harris's and Alice Hitchens' wonderland.

Too late to turn back now but if she's come all the way from Somalia, sure she'd find the patience to stay low for a little while.

Other Comments by Vinelectric

24. Comment #88729 by meraj on November 18, 2007 at 5:34 pm

Hmmm, thats odd. I'm pretty sure she could afford this herself or the many wealthy westerners that patronize her cause. Or am I assuming too much?

Other Comments by meraj

25. Comment #88731 by nothing on November 18, 2007 at 5:50 pm

The wonders of skepticism! The last time Sam Harris put up this appeal, I pondered whether or not to respond. This time, I read his urgent appeal and thought: enough thinking, put your money where your mouth is! And then I read the comments on this page and I'm back where I started.

14. Comment #88700 by SilentMike on November 18, 2007 at 3:33 pm

10. Comment #88694 by jaytee_555

My initial reaction was to support Sam Harris' suggestion, but on reflection, I'd like some of the questions raised above to be answered before I decide.

It is always good to get more information. Maybe Sam should elaborate and answer the questions that have been raised. This is in no way intended to be disrespectful of Sam Harris or to cast doubt on the purity of his intentions. It's just that we are an inquisitive skeptical lot after all and some explanations may be in order. I'm sure that good answers will bring about an increase in donations.

Thanks for you comment Silent Mike. I hope Sam Harris does elaborate and answer the questions that have been raised.

Other Comments by nothing

26. Comment #88735 by sillysighbean on November 18, 2007 at 6:01 pm

Maybe a portion of the money that these atheist authors earned from all the books I bought could go towards protecting their friends, I would even buy another book to support the cause. These authors made millions this year. I wonder how much money Bertrand Russel made on his book "Science and Religion"?

Other Comments by sillysighbean

27. Comment #88738 by Jaffas85 on November 18, 2007 at 6:42 pm

Surely Ayaan Hirsi Ali has made quite a lot of money from the sales of "Caged Virgin" and "Infidel"?

Shouldn't she have more than enough to finance her protection?

Also, I'm sure Dawkins and Hitchens would be millionaires so they could be paying for her protection if she doesn't have enough money.

Other Comments by Jaffas85

28. Comment #88740 by GoatBoy36 on November 18, 2007 at 7:00 pm

"If her security difficulties weren't so well publicized maybe she'd be a bit safer anyway." - Vinelectric.

You appear to be saying that if the Muslims who are so offended by Ayaan Hirsi Ali's work that they want her dead believe that she has armed guards with her at all times then they will be less likely to try to assassinate her. Okay, well I think we'd all agree with that, so far as it goes.

Since there are problems with providing her protection though, I take it you are saying something like: let's keep it quiet and don't let the people who would try to assassinate her know about it - and the belief that she has armed guards with her 24/7 will suffice.

A debatable point, surely. All it would take would be a Muslim who did not care if he survived an attack on his target to make an attempt on her life, and if she had no guards at that particular time, then he could easily succeed.

And it's possible, is it not, for such an assassin to exist? They may be the exception rather than the rule, let's grant that for the sake of argument. But we've seen Muslims carry out attacks on everyday, anonymous civilians (Glasgow airport for example) who did not expect to survive the event. It seems reasonable to assume that a person such as that could, if they had the opportunity, carry out an attack on an apostate, someone who has renounced their religion and criticised their prophet. So I don't really think it's safe to say that the mere belief that she is being guarded is enough to protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali from anyone looking to kill her.

On the other hand, if she actually does have an armed guard and a suicidal Muslim with a chip on his shoulder tries to harm her, then he's not going to get very far. (Hopefully.)

You call Theo Van Gogh "scum of the earth" but I refer you to the argument I believe has been made elsewhere on this website recently (by AC Grayling), which notes that although people such as Mohammad Bouyeri, the killer of Theo van Gogh, are actually taking people's lives in the name of their religion, all that people like Grayling himself, and RD, and Sam Harris, and yes Theo van Gogh, are doing is using words to make people think. Quite a difference.

Talking of the actual scum of the earth, here's the poem which Mohammad Bouyeri had on him when he was arrested (along with a death threat aimed at Ayaan Hirsi Ali):

DRENCHED IN BLOOD
So this is my final word…
Riddled with bullets…
Baptized in blood…
As I had hoped.
I am leaving a message…
For you…the fighter…
The tree of Tawheed is waiting…
Yearning for your blood…
Enter the bargain…
And Allah opens the way…
He gives you the Garden…
Instead of the earthly rubble.
To the enemy I say…
You will surely die…
Wherever in the world you go…
Death is waiting for you…
Chased by the knights of DEATH…
Who paint the streets with Red.
For the hypocrites I have one final word…
Wish DEATH or hold your tongue and …sit.
Dear brothers and sisters, my end is nigh…
But this does not end the story.

Now *that's* disgusting!


Other Comments by GoatBoy36

29. Comment #88741 by MelM on November 18, 2007 at 7:02 pm

I just dropped my check in the local mail box. I have no doubt that I've done the moral thing.

Other Comments by MelM

30. Comment #88742 by crabsallover on November 18, 2007 at 7:16 pm

i have just made a one off donation and will review again in a week. I'm going to buy her 'Infidel' book and publicise her case to Dorset Humanists etc.

Other Comments by crabsallover

31. Comment #88743 by crabsallover on November 18, 2007 at 7:20 pm

for background read the links at http://www.samharris.org/site/security_trust/ayaan_hirsi_ali
viz. Christopher Hitchens http://www.slate.com/id/2175458/ and Christopher Caldwell http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/03/magazine/03ALI.html?_r=1&oref=slogin articles.

Other Comments by crabsallover

32. Comment #88744 by crabsallover on November 18, 2007 at 7:38 pm

For a quick overview of the background read:-
Ayaan Hirsi Ali: abandoned to fanatics by By Sam Harris
and Salman Rushdie October 9, 2007
http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/ayaan-hirsi-ali-abandoned-to-fanatics/

Other Comments by crabsallover

33. Comment #88746 by SmartLX on November 18, 2007 at 8:58 pm

ASonOfLiberty, though I'd like to know RD's reasons for turning D'Souza down (if he even did), RD may not even have to soil his hands on D'Souza.

On November 30 D'Souza goes up against Daniel Dennett at Tufts University, Dennett's home ground. The subject is the existence of a deity. How do you reckon that will go?

My source is D'Souza on Wikipedia. Anyone got more details?

Other Comments by SmartLX

34. Comment #88747 by Big T on November 18, 2007 at 9:13 pm

I have just put the first of many donations in the mailbox. This woman needs and deserves our help. According to an Internet site I looked at, there are about 45 million Dutch citizens. If Ms. Ali's protection costs 4 million dollars a year, that's less than ten cents a year for every Dutch citizen, but if the Dutch government doesn't want to do it, I intend to continue making a contribution every month.

Other Comments by Big T

35. Comment #88748 by dthuleen on November 18, 2007 at 10:02 pm

Big T,

Wikipedia claims a population of about 17 million, so the cost per Dutch citizen goes up to about $0.30 per year. But your point is essentially valid even so.

If your figure of 4 million dollars a year is correct, we can see why the profits from her book don't go very far toward paying for security. Even a bestseller like The End of Faith, for example, has only sold in the low hundreds of thousands of copies. These authors are not becoming multimillionaires, at least not on the basis of their book sales alone.

Other Comments by dthuleen

36. Comment #88763 by j s bach on November 19, 2007 at 12:27 am

From reading some of the comments on this page it would seem to me religious people ARE, after all, more generous the non-believers.
All the twisting and wriggling and scraping for reasons not to pay. I wonder if Christians would do the same when asked by a reputable source for money to help someone in need?

Other Comments by j s bach

37. Comment #88773 by Boreas on November 19, 2007 at 1:14 am

I had the same questions as others here about whether my money was needed to help protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

In the end I've signed up to help fund her security because this is my chance, in a very small way, to help defend the right to freedom of speech.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali has shown a bravery and devotion to helping others that are all too rare. If I can help in a small way then I'm proud to do so.

Other Comments by Boreas

38. Comment #88791 by Nighttripper on November 19, 2007 at 2:08 am

I think there are better causes to spend money on then Hirsi Ali's multimillion dollar protection in the US. The same US that apparantly doesn't even feel the least inclined to pay one penny. And the same Hirsi Ali who has earned truckloads with selling her books. On top of that, I don't think her stategy is doing any good to the closing the gap between the west and the east but hey, let's put that aside.

There surely must be more urgent causes to donate your money to, then the protection of a woman who is living in luxury in the US, moving from The Netherlands where she was very well protected and now asks the common I-got-a-9-to-5-job Joe to pay for her protection.

"But she MIGHT be killed!!"
Yes, and in the meantime, 20.000 other people will DEFINITELY die today. Because they don't have food, water, shelter, medicine and are mutilated, murdered or die of diseases that we in the west cure with a few pills and a good night's sleep. The reason being; They were born in the wrong place...

If you make big money you can easily decide to back both causes, but your average middleclass worker will have to decide which of the causes deserves their support more. And my decision didn't take a second...

Other Comments by Nighttripper

39. Comment #88811 by stephenray on November 19, 2007 at 2:54 am

It's entirely probable that Aayan makes more money than me. Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins certainly make fa-a-ar more money than me.

I won't be contributing; I have no money to spare, and insufficient motivation to go without - on this occasion.

Of course, I wish her well.

Other Comments by stephenray

40. Comment #88814 by Fanusi Khiyal on November 19, 2007 at 2:58 am

I cannot believe some of these comments here. Ayaan Hirsi Ali risks her life to fight Islam, and people here turn green at supporting her.

And let me put my own cards on the table: Student. Unemployed. Living off savings from scholarship. And I am still setting up a monthly subscription.

May I suggest that certain people - you know who you are - consider what they spend each month on, say, cinema? Outings? Books? Fill-in-your-luxury-here? And then compare that with a five pound a month subscription to protect one of the bravest human beings alive today.

Shame on you.

And it is no surprise to me, none in the least, that it is exactly those people who wax wax indignant whenever I give my frank opinion on Islam, that now behaving this way. You know who you are.

This is a litmus test: let's see who actually places some value on freedom of speech, on courage, on reason, on morality. Let's see who's words actually mean something.

Other Comments by Fanusi Khiyal

41. Comment #88815 by evolvingalways on November 19, 2007 at 3:00 am

If I was well of financially I would support Ayaan but I would think with all the success of her book and being paid to speak at different venues she would be able to support her self.

Other Comments by evolvingalways

42. Comment #88820 by decius on November 19, 2007 at 3:13 am

Sam Harris isn't the type of emotional person who would raise concern for no reason and is a personal friend of Ayaan's. Asking him for more details, as if he might be wrong, is insulting.

One may or may not want to help and there is no need to publicly justify one's unwillingness to do so with idiotic statements, comparisons, or by vulgarly attempting to calculate what Ayaan's income is, or how well off Hitchens and Dawkins are, the relevance of which eludes me entirely.

It is our duty to protect our intellectuals and to put pressure on the governments which are failing to do so. Never should they be left to fend for themselves.

Help if you can, shut up if you can't or don't want to.

Thanks

Other Comments by decius

43. Comment #88822 by Nighttripper on November 19, 2007 at 3:14 am

May I suggest that certain people - you know who you are - consider what they spend each month on, say, cinema? Outings? Books? Fill-in-your-luxury-here? And then compare that with a five pound a month subscription to protect one of the bravest human beings alive today.
Shame on you.

Oh yes, because that poor woman deserves so much more (luxurious home, big car and dinerparties F.E.) then the average african mother trying to keep her children from dying from dysentry and hunger... Like I said, there is only so much I am inclined to spend my money on, and paying for the protection of Hirsi Ali is probably somewhere at spot 93 of the list of great-causes-to-spend-money-on.

Comment #88820 by decius:
Asking him for more details, as if he might be wrong, is insulting.

Oh yeah, let's not ask critical questions because we all know Mr. Hittchens is Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient.


Other Comments by Nighttripper

44. Comment #88823 by ASonOfLiberty on November 19, 2007 at 3:15 am

I have lived in Holland, Amsterdam more precisely. I met a few muslim nuts there myself, and I had to clean house with one when he attacked me for giving my Allah, Yahweh , and Jesus are bullshit line.

I love Amsterdam so that my entire left forearm is tattooed with the Amsterdam flag. It is high time that Dutchies take back their own country. So have some balls my Dutch friends, I didn't get stabbed there, or maybe that is cause I am from LA and know how to deal with these cowards.

Ik hou van Amsterdam!

Ms. Ali is doing a great thing, but running away from Holland after Van Gogh was stabbed is cowardly in my opinion.

America has it's crazy Christians, and we are dealing with them, I suggest Europeans do the same and clean their own house.

I am sorry, but if a friend of mine was stabbed to death I would have something done, and I don't mean write a book.

Hitch does have this one thing right for sure. There is a fight brewing, and we non-belivers did not start it, but with all the brains we have on our side we should step up and fight back, not always just with our minds.

And no I wouldn't advocate beating up Christians or Jews, they don't attack anyone in the streets. Muslims do and they will as long as people run from them.

Other Comments by ASonOfLiberty

45. Comment #88824 by Nighttripper on November 19, 2007 at 3:22 am

Ik hou von Amsterdam!

It's "Ik hou van Amsterdam", "von" is German...

Other Comments by Nighttripper

46. Comment #88826 by ASonOfLiberty on November 19, 2007 at 3:25 am

Typo Brah :)

Other Comments by ASonOfLiberty

47. Comment #88827 by Nighttripper on November 19, 2007 at 3:26 am

;)

Other Comments by Nighttripper

48. Comment #88831 by decius on November 19, 2007 at 3:37 am

Nighttripper,

I was referring to Harris (not Hitchens), who wrote the appeal, not because I consider him omniscient, but because he is demonstrably well informed on this issue, and not prone to act irrationally or emotionally, unlike you.

Your statement about poor mothers in Africa is a double logical fallacy (straw-man and appeal to pity), with no merit in this discussion, probably only serving the purpose to relieve your own conscience of this matter.

Other Comments by decius

49. Comment #88835 by GoatBoy36 on November 19, 2007 at 3:49 am

js bach,

You have made an excellent point - one which I touched upon in my earlier post. It seems reasonable to assume that if a Christian person had been threatened then their fellow believers would go that extra mile to support them. But just look at this bunch of greeting faced, greedy bastards on this website! Twisting and turning more than any bible thumper trying to explain their beliefs. It's bloody pathetic. I never accepted the commonly heard Christian argument that atheists don't/won't behave in a sound moral fashion but whenever anyone makes that argument in future I'll think of this extremely poor showing. It's a question of personal morality. Do you - as an individual - believe in helping other people who need help? In this particular instance, do you believe that one should be able to renounce Islam, say what you really think about that barbaric set of beliefs, and live? Then do something about it. It's really a straightforward matter. Someone wondered earlier about the option being there for making quite large donations. Others say people like Christopher Hitchens are well off. Er, two plus two does equal four you know. Meanwhile, for the rest of us we can do without that next DVD we were going to buy, or maybe eat in instead of going down the road for a fish supper this weekend. And make a modest donation.

gb.

Other Comments by GoatBoy36

50. Comment #88838 by Nighttripper on November 19, 2007 at 3:52 am

Comment #88831 by decius on November 19, 2007 at 3:37 am
I was referring to Harris (not Hitchens),

Harris, Hitchens, guess I misread. Point still stands that it is pretty astonishing thing to say that asking someone for their motivations is "insulting" because he can't possibly be wrong on the matter. If we would all do that, this website, or any other freethinking place wouldn't exist.

Comment #88831 by decius on November 19, 2007 at 3:37 am
probably only serving the purpose to relieve your own conscience of this matter.

Haha yeah surely my conscience does need to be relieved on this matter. In fact, I think I wont be able to get any sleep over it these coming months.

But actualy I sleep very well each night knowing that the money I donate every month is spended on people who don't have any means to keep themselves sheltered, feeded and clothed without it.

Other Comments by Nighttripper