Lying for Jesus?Mark Mathis, a producer of the film who attended the screening, said that "of course" he had recognized Dr. Dawkins, but allowed him to attend because "he has handled himself fairly honorably, he is a guest in our country and I had to presume he had flown a long way to see the film."
It would appear that Expelled's producer Mark Mathis was not being truthful when he told me tonight that Crossroads was a 'working title' for the film Expelled. As Wesley Elsberry points out, the domain for Expelled was purchased before most, if not all, of the interviews were conducted -- and yet Richard Dawkins, Eugenie Scott, PZ Myers, and others were told they were being interviewed for a film called Crossroads.
Mr. Mark Mathis, do you want to come here and explain yourself?
902. Comment #158878 by Philip1978 on April 11, 2008 at 6:24 am
903. Comment #158887 by MaxD on April 11, 2008 at 6:31 am
904. Comment #158888 by Bonzai on April 11, 2008 at 6:31 am
I start forgetting after about 8 pints when the women start looking better!
A couple of times I woke up in the morning after a rather heavy night on the tiles to discover not only could I not remember the night out I had cleaned my room, even hoovered it the second time. I was really freaked out, I had folded all my clothes, dusted - everything! :)
905. Comment #158896 by Bonzai on April 11, 2008 at 6:41 am
Its one of the reasons I think it may well be Richard Morgan. It is the kind of petty thing I link with his earlier behavior this week. Storming off, deleting almost all of his posts, lurking which he was definately doing
906. Comment #158899 by Philip1978 on April 11, 2008 at 6:42 am
907. Comment #158902 by Quetzalcoatl on April 11, 2008 at 6:45 am
A couple of times I woke up in the morning after a rather heavy night on the tiles to discover not only could I not remember the night out I had cleaned my room, even hoovered it the second time. I was really freaked out, I had folded all my clothes, dusted - everything!
908. Comment #158904 by Polydactyl on April 11, 2008 at 6:48 am
Useful information on various teas ... and I really appreciate Goldy's reference to a recipe on lamb curry which sounds very enticing.909. Comment #158905 by Paula Kirby on April 11, 2008 at 6:49 am
Philip1978: He sent a load of pigs off on a marathon run and made them jump off a cliff!A load of someone else's pigs, no less!
910. Comment #158906 by irate_atheist on April 11, 2008 at 6:51 am
911. Comment #158907 by Bonzai on April 11, 2008 at 6:51 am
He sent a load of pigs off on a marathon run and made them jump off a cliff!
912. Comment #158908 by Quetzalcoatl on April 11, 2008 at 6:52 am
913. Comment #158909 by Vaal on April 11, 2008 at 6:55 am
914. Comment #158912 by Paula Kirby on April 11, 2008 at 7:02 am
Vaal: Still, Paula, in his defence, he could turn water into wine, so he is welcome in my house any day.I think I'd want to be careful on that one - it might have been Liebfraumilch.
915. Comment #158914 by Bonzai on April 11, 2008 at 7:03 am
No, I find it rather hard to buy in to this "wonderful Jesus" idea. The Jesus as presented in the NT has his good moments, it's true, but he's also moody, incredibly opaque in some of his answers, petulant, unpredictable, and incredibly undiplomatic - NOT a good quality in someone who'd supposedly been sent from God to win people over.
916. Comment #158915 by Philip1978 on April 11, 2008 at 7:03 am
917. Comment #158918 by Bonzai on April 11, 2008 at 7:06 am
Yes, the Bible does not relate the story of the impoverished pig farmer, I suspect he was one of the jeering crowd at the crucifixion!
918. Comment #158919 by Vaal on April 11, 2008 at 7:06 am
I don't see how anyone encountering the story for the first time without any prior knowledge or indoctrination whatsoever, and without someone standing over them to shape their reactions, could possibly come to the conclusion that this was a man so perfect he had to be God
919. Comment #158921 by Tyler Durden on April 11, 2008 at 7:11 am
920. Comment #158923 by Paula Kirby on April 11, 2008 at 7:13 am
Bonzai: What would you think God should have sent as his representative? A slick, smooth talking PR man in a three piece suit?Good grief, no. Just someone who didn't make his own job 100 times harder and more dangerous by antagonising people it would have been smarter not to antagonise. A few diplomatic skills wouldn't have gone amiss, but Jesus would appear to have been off sick on the day of the training course.
921. Comment #158925 by Vaal on April 11, 2008 at 7:14 am
The Jesus as presented in the NT has his good moments, it's true, but he's also moody, incredibly opaque in some of his answers, petulant, unpredictable, and incredibly undiplomatic
922. Comment #158929 by Tyler Durden on April 11, 2008 at 7:24 am
but Jesus would appear to have been off sick on the day of the training course.Betcha he had a note from his Dad the next day though: "To whom it may concern, please excuse my only begotten son from missing class yesterday, he had to appear in a Taco shell in Guadalajara. The one true God"
923. Comment #158932 by Bonzai on April 11, 2008 at 7:30 am
Just someone who didn't make his own job 100 times harder and more dangerous by antagonising people it would have been smarter not to antagonise
924. Comment #158934 by Paula Kirby on April 11, 2008 at 7:38 am
Bonzai: I actually see Jesus as a very sympathetic figure, a man-god who betrayed genuine human emotions. In some way he was supposed to encapsulate the fate of man, with all his humanity and vulnerability.Well, all of us have humanity and vulnerability. I don't see Jesus as handling either of them in a way that makes him stand out particularly. As I said before, he had his good moments, but don't we all? He could also be a complete jerk. Again, so can we all. What I'm driving at is that many Christians (if I remember correctly, David Robertson is one) claim that it is the personality of Jesus that convinces them that he was/is God. I simply don't find that remotely persuasive. There is a myth that Jesus as shown in the NT was some sort of outstandingly wonderful character. I really don't find him that special.
925. Comment #158938 by annabanana on April 11, 2008 at 7:48 am
926. Comment #158939 by Frankus1122 on April 11, 2008 at 7:50 am
As I said before, he had his good moments, but don't we all? He could also be a complete jerk. Again, so can we all. What I'm driving at is that many Christians (if I remember correctly, David Robertson is one) claim that it is the personality of Jesus that convinces them that he was/is God. I simply don't find that remotely persuasive. There is a myth that Jesus as shown in the NT was some sort of outstandingly wonderful character. I really don't find him that special.
927. Comment #158940 by Vaal on April 11, 2008 at 7:52 am
928. Comment #158941 by Bonzai on April 11, 2008 at 7:52 am
I simply don't find that remotely persuasive. There is a myth that Jesus as shown in the NT was some sort of outstandingly wonderful character. I really don't find him that special.
929. Comment #158942 by Frankus1122 on April 11, 2008 at 7:55 am
Who wouldn't want to hang with him?
930. Comment #158943 by Tyler Durden on April 11, 2008 at 7:55 am
"Jesus is with me 24/7. There is no shaking the guy. Isn't that cool?"Kinda like having your very own stalker!
931. Comment #158945 by Quetzalcoatl on April 11, 2008 at 8:00 am
932. Comment #158947 by Frankus1122 on April 11, 2008 at 8:00 am
I actually see Jesus as a very sympathetic figure, a man-god who betrayed genuine human emotions. In some way he was supposed to encapsulate the fate of man, with all his humanity and vulnerability.
933. Comment #158949 by Paula Kirby on April 11, 2008 at 8:18 am
Bonzai: Maybe he was not supposed to be an outstandingly wonderful character?Meant by whom? God? I don't believe in him.
934. Comment #158950 by The Reverend Dark on April 11, 2008 at 8:19 am
935. Comment #158955 by Frankus1122 on April 11, 2008 at 8:29 am
but Nooooooo! He has to get complex.
936. Comment #158956 by Vaal on April 11, 2008 at 8:32 am
937. Comment #158959 by The Reverend Dark on April 11, 2008 at 8:39 am
938. Comment #158979 by Bonzai on April 11, 2008 at 9:19 am
Meant by whom? God? I don't believe in him.
939. Comment #158990 by MaxD on April 11, 2008 at 9:58 am
940. Comment #158998 by Paula Kirby on April 11, 2008 at 10:08 am
Bonzai: The people who wrote the stories, of course.But what the writers did or didn't mean doesn't form any part of the point I'm making. My point is simply about the number of Christians now who cite the personality of Jesus - as presented in the gospels - as the reason for their devotion. That's what I simply don't buy into.
941. Comment #159175 by Jon_Sociologist on April 11, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Comment #158804 by alan baylis:
No need to refute any of it, just underlining it will be enough!
Comment #158905 by Paula Kirby:
The Jesus as presented in the NT has his good moments, it's true, but he's also moody, incredibly opaque in some of his answers, petulant, unpredictable, and incredibly undiplomatic - NOT a good quality in someone who'd supposedly been sent from God to win people over.
Comment #158909 by Vaal:
Still, Paula, in his defence, he could turn water into wine, so he is welcome in my house any day.
Comment #158932 by Bonzai:
IMO God the father was the bastard in the NT narrative, not Jesus.
942. Comment #159319 by epeeist on April 12, 2008 at 12:15 am
I tried to read this but it was so caustic. It seems like it is written by a completely bitter, crazy man.So would you believe reviews by, say, the movie critic of Fox News? Or people from Scientific American?
943. Comment #159332 by Peacebeuponme on April 12, 2008 at 1:15 am
whatrutalkingaboutI myself have not seen the film, (yet) but plan on making my own decision.Will you?
944. Comment #159343 by tron22 on April 12, 2008 at 1:55 am
Mr. Dawkins, if you're so smart, and know exactly what you're talking about, then let's discuss this:945. Comment #159349 by epeeist on April 12, 2008 at 2:18 am
Strange isn't how the people who want to make an attack generally refuse to acknowledge RD's qualifications.
Mr. Dawkins, if you're so smart
946. Comment #159354 by Peacebeuponme on April 12, 2008 at 2:27 am
PrickMy rebuttal:Richard went as a guest of PZ. What the fuck are you talking about?
If ALL guests were not listed, then how did Mathis spot PZ Myers'? Do we speak English? ALL, means ALL. Apparently scientists don't consider words to mean anything except what they want them to mean.
947. Comment #159377 by BillySands on April 12, 2008 at 3:51 am
If you "misremembered" the details of exchanges in conversation "over the telephone" then how can you "vividly" remember the exchanges otherwise?
948. Comment #159513 by epeeist on April 12, 2008 at 11:31 am
949. Comment #159516 by AllanW on April 12, 2008 at 11:37 am
950. Comment #159522 by Dr Benway on April 12, 2008 at 12:02 pm
whatrutalkingabout: I'm amazed at how you can state that the movie basically forces their ideas down your throat when that is EXACTLY what this blog is doing!I can only speak for myself, not Dawkins or anyone else here. I have no problem with someone expressing opinions in a movie or a blog which I can view or not. I'm more worried about the state forcing us to accept opinions without evidentiary support.
901. Comment #158876 by Peacebeuponme on April 11, 2008 at 6:21 am
D I Ogenes.I'm tired of this now.
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