









Lying for Jesus?Mark Mathis, a producer of the film who attended the screening, said that "of course" he had recognized Dr. Dawkins, but allowed him to attend because "he has handled himself fairly honorably, he is a guest in our country and I had to presume he had flown a long way to see the film."
It would appear that Expelled's producer Mark Mathis was not being truthful when he told me tonight that Crossroads was a 'working title' for the film Expelled. As Wesley Elsberry points out, the domain for Expelled was purchased before most, if not all, of the interviews were conducted -- and yet Richard Dawkins, Eugenie Scott, PZ Myers, and others were told they were being interviewed for a film called Crossroads.
Mr. Mark Mathis, do you want to come here and explain yourself?
952. Comment #159349 by epeeist on April 12, 2008 at 2:18 am
Strange isn't how the people who want to make an attack generally refuse to acknowledge RD's qualifications.
Mr. Dawkins, if you're so smart
953. Comment #159354 by Peacebeuponme on April 12, 2008 at 2:27 am
PrickMy rebuttal:Richard went as a guest of PZ. What the fuck are you talking about?
If ALL guests were not listed, then how did Mathis spot PZ Myers'? Do we speak English? ALL, means ALL. Apparently scientists don't consider words to mean anything except what they want them to mean.
954. Comment #159377 by BillySands on April 12, 2008 at 3:51 am
If you "misremembered" the details of exchanges in conversation "over the telephone" then how can you "vividly" remember the exchanges otherwise?
955. Comment #159512 by bigcanuck on April 12, 2008 at 11:26 am
I'm curious how there can be so many opinions on this film when it hasn't been released yet. For a forum that prides itself on intelligence and thinking for one's self, I would think it would be difficult to critique something that you have not seen.956. Comment #159513 by epeeist on April 12, 2008 at 11:31 am
957. Comment #159516 by AllanW on April 12, 2008 at 11:37 am
958. Comment #159522 by Dr Benway on April 12, 2008 at 12:02 pm
whatrutalkingabout: I'm amazed at how you can state that the movie basically forces their ideas down your throat when that is EXACTLY what this blog is doing!I can only speak for myself, not Dawkins or anyone else here. I have no problem with someone expressing opinions in a movie or a blog which I can view or not. I'm more worried about the state forcing us to accept opinions without evidentiary support.
959. Comment #159528 by Dr Benway on April 12, 2008 at 12:11 pm
bigcanuck: I'm curious how there can be so many opinions on this film when it hasn't been released yet. For a forum that prides itself on intelligence and thinking for one's self, I would think it would be difficult to critique something that you have not seen.Such scattershot criticisms are not helpful. We'll have a more productive discussion if you quote something someone has said that bothered you, and you direct your comments to that person specifically.
960. Comment #159530 by Dr Benway on April 12, 2008 at 12:13 pm
tron22: You're a light-weight in this universe...get over it.Most of us here aren't particularly interested in Richard Dawkins' personality. For the sake of argument, how about we concede he's an ignoramus.
961. Comment #159533 by myarbrough61 on April 12, 2008 at 12:21 pm
One other thing...I would rather spend my life believing that I was created by God than to believe that I descended from a rock!962. Comment #159537 by Dr Benway on April 12, 2008 at 12:29 pm
myarbrough61: One other thing...I would rather spend my life believing that I was created by God than to believe that I descended from a rock!Aw, some rocks are kinda pretty.
963. Comment #159538 by AllanW on April 12, 2008 at 12:29 pm
964. Comment #159544 by Dr Benway on April 12, 2008 at 12:57 pm
965. Comment #159546 by ForestMist on April 12, 2008 at 1:12 pm
966. Comment #159564 by Frankus1122 on April 12, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Basically, this is tantamount of saying: "I may have misremembered the details of our exchange, in which I told you I would be at your house to pick you up at 7:00pm, but I VIVIDLY remember your admonition to arrive at your house at 7:00pm so we could get to the ballgame on time."
Doesn't add up. Doesn't stack up. Actually, these outpourings crumble under the weight of duplicity and aversion to responsibility for your own actions/words.
I may have misremembered the details of our exchanges, by eMail and by telephone, but I vividly remember his reassuring me, over the telephone, that he was on the side of science, and he made no attempt to distance himself from my sarcastic jokes about 'Intelligent Design'.
967. Comment #159574 by Steve Zara on April 12, 2008 at 2:48 pm
What they've seen confirms predictions made by Einstein in 1925. Awesome! Stuff like this makes me proud to be an American.
968. Comment #159575 by Styrer- on April 12, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Enjoy whatever delusion you wish, my friend and have a lovely vacation from reality. Let us know how it was when and if you ever return to us.
969. Comment #159579 by bigcanuck on April 12, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Ben Stein is not trying to damage anything scientific. This is what I'm having a problem with. He quite distinctly states that since Darwinists have no answer for how life began, there is obviously large holes in their theory.970. Comment #159582 by Radesq on April 12, 2008 at 3:07 pm
971. Comment #159585 by Geoff on April 12, 2008 at 3:09 pm
It has seriously weird properties, like the ability to reduce the speed of light through the material to zero.
972. Comment #159589 by Geoff on April 12, 2008 at 3:13 pm
One other thing...I would rather spend my life believing that I was created by God than to believe that I descended from a rock!
973. Comment #159591 by Steve Zara on April 12, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Steve -- if the condensate reduces the speed of light to zero would it then be dark matter?
974. Comment #159592 by Styrer- on April 12, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Comment #159579 by bigcanuck on April 12, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Ben Stein is not trying to damage anything scientific. This is what I'm having a problem with. He quite distinctly states that since Darwinists have no answer for how life began, there is obviously large holes in their theory.
He is concerned (as I am) that discussion is not encouraged on alternate theories that could explain the very lynch pin of any theory... if life evolves without intelligent design of some type... how did it begin in the first place? Ben stein is a very intelligent man and I don't think you'll find anywhere that he discredits science... he is discrediting those who would shut down discussion. When Dawkins tells those who disagree with him to just "shut up" it is simply arrogant and not productive.
975. Comment #159595 by Bonzai on April 12, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Bose-Einstein condensation is a state where a few thousands to a few billions bosons,--976. Comment #159599 by Steve Zara on April 12, 2008 at 3:31 pm
One other thing...I would rather spend my life believing that I was created by God than to believe that I descended from a rock!
977. Comment #159600 by Styrer- on April 12, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Comment #159591 by Steve Zara on April 12, 2008 at 3:17 pm
978. Comment #159601 by Steve Zara on April 12, 2008 at 3:40 pm
What is peculiar about the BEC state is that the atoms behave in a completely coherent way and together become in a sense, a gigantic atom instead of a large number of atoms.
979. Comment #159604 by Bonzai on April 12, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Liquid He has a condensation fraction of less than 10% while for dilute BEC it is close to 100%. Also BEC states are in a sense "adjustable" over a wide range with say, light.980. Comment #159605 by Steve Zara on April 12, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Some while ago, Steve, you said you'd check out my interpretation of Stenger, to the tune that 'nothing' is inherently unstable, so permitting quantum mechanics to do its stuff and create 'something'. The whole idea was, if I recall correctly, that 'something' is a more likely state than that of 'nothing'.
Did you get anywhere with your investigations?
981. Comment #159607 by Steve Zara on April 12, 2008 at 3:52 pm
982. Comment #159610 by Styrer- on April 12, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Comment #159605 by Steve Zara on April 12, 2008 at 3:50 pm
983. Comment #159615 by Dr Benway on April 12, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Steve: The Bose-Einstein condensate is a collection of atoms where the idea of each atom having a separate identity becomes meaningless. It has seriously weird properties, like the ability to reduce the speed of light through the material to zero.Fuckin' A!
984. Comment #159618 by Bonzai on April 12, 2008 at 4:21 pm
Styrer,So all of the theists - against whom I've been tentatively arguing that we NOW have understanding of precisely how something can emerge from nothing, thanks primarily to Stenger - will be quite entitled, following your research, to shout loud and clear 'I TOLD YOU! Something CANNOT come from NOTHING!'
985. Comment #159619 by Styrer- on April 12, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Actually, Steve, on re-consideration, I have to say I think you are being a bit of a twat about this.986. Comment #159620 by bigcanuck on April 12, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Styrer... I guess you haven't seen the film then eh? Maybe you had better see it before you make certain comments like Dawkins not telling anyone to shut up.... I believe it might be on the trailer itself.987. Comment #159624 by Styrer- on April 12, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Comment #159618 by Bonzai on April 12, 2008 at 4:21 pm
988. Comment #159625 by Dr Benway on April 12, 2008 at 4:39 pm
bigcanuck: He quite distinctly states that since Darwinists have no answer for how life began, there is obviously large holes in their theory.All theories are incomplete models of the world we experience. We're constantly making new discoveries and revising our theories.
Ben stein is a very intelligent man and I don't think you'll find anywhere that he discredits science...Before any scientific study is published, it's sent to experts in the field for review. The reviewers look at the methods, statistics, and conclusions and make comments. Some studies are done poorly and really shouldn't be published. Some just need a bit of tweaking.
989. Comment #159626 by Steve Zara on April 12, 2008 at 4:40 pm
Comment #159619 by Styrer
Actually, Steve, on re-consideration, I have to say I think you are being a bit of a twat about this.
Look - Stenger posits a universe where its own being is more likely than its not being, and goes to some considerable degree to support his notion.
That you would, sir, seek to dismiss it by means of a 'blog' entry seems to me to be the height of arrogance.
Is this man not a world-class, world-renowned scientist?
Would you not expect his findings to have already been found in error if he is simply wrong?
For you to suggest that he presents 'no evidence at all for his idea' is surely a smack to the head of someone whose entire academic career, and hence CONCLUSIONS, have been wholly evidenced driven.
Is your own view, leading to your denunciation of a 'one-universe' guy like Stenger, not simply that there are multiple universes, a view which requires similar levels of evidence as those of Stenger's ideas to support?
I perceive a double standard here, and I am very displeased with you, Steve, as a result.
990. Comment #159632 by bigcanuck on April 12, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Dr. Benway,991. Comment #159633 by Styrer- on April 12, 2008 at 4:53 pm
My whole life revolves around science in the health care arena. What you are telling me now is that it is better to say there is no answer than to consider all posibilities.. Is that what you mean to tell me.
992. Comment #159635 by Steve Zara on April 12, 2008 at 5:02 pm
It is not damaging to science to consider that there might be a higher power who at least orchestrated the beginning of life so that evolution could happen.
993. Comment #159637 by bigcanuck on April 12, 2008 at 5:04 pm
Stryer,994. Comment #159640 by Bonzai on April 12, 2008 at 5:17 pm
BigcanuckTo discount any possible answer is against the scientific method and since science hasn't proven God doesn't exist...
995. Comment #159641 by Dr Benway on April 12, 2008 at 5:17 pm
bigcanuck: You show your own prejudiced point of view when you discount a possible option for any scientific experiment.By "option" I assume you mean hypothesis. Yes, a good scientist ought to consider all possible explanations for some phenomenon.
996. Comment #159642 by Steve Zara on April 12, 2008 at 5:18 pm
What harm is there in saying... we don't know how life was created initially and then giving them some theories and let them go on there way and formulate their own opinions? I'm not saying that intelligent design is the answer...I'm saying a true scientist leaves all possible answers open.
997. Comment #159644 by Styrer- on April 12, 2008 at 5:19 pm
I am, at heart, scientist. I don't present scientific views based on popularity. If you have some emotional investment in Stenger's ideas, that, I am afraid, is your problem.
998. Comment #159645 by Mark Smith on April 12, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Bigcanuck999. Comment #159646 by bigcanuck on April 12, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Well and that is what I expected to find on this page. I shake my head at the bible thumpers who discount anything scientific that doesn't fit into their own personal little reality. You too have created your own little reality that is influenced equally as much by your own personal bias.1000. Comment #159649 by Steve Zara on April 12, 2008 at 5:31 pm
However, I have never had any 'emotional' investment in Stenger's ideas other than that his ideas have lent some support in my engagements with theists that have shut them up.
951. Comment #159343 by tron22 on April 12, 2008 at 1:55 am
Mr. Dawkins, if you're so smart, and know exactly what you're talking about, then let's discuss this:Your Quote:
It was easy for Mathis to spot PZ Myers' name on the list of those registering in advance. Like all guests, my name was not on any list, and therefore Mathis didn't spot me.
My rebuttal:
If ALL guests were not listed, then how did Mathis spot PZ Myers'? Do we speak English? ALL, means ALL. Apparently scientists don't consider words to mean anything except what they want them to mean.
Your quote:
I may have misremembered the details of our exchanges, by eMail and by telephone, but I vividly remember his reassuring me, over the telephone, that he was on the side of science, and he made no attempt to distance himself from my sarcastic jokes about 'Intelligent Design'.
My rebuttal:
If you "misremembered" the details of exchanges in conversation "over the telephone" then how can you "vividly" remember the exchanges otherwise?
Basically, this is tantamount of saying: "I may have misremembered the details of our exchange, in which I told you I would be at your house to pick you up at 7:00pm, but I VIVIDLY remember your admonition to arrive at your house at 7:00pm so we could get to the ballgame on time."
Doesn't add up. Doesn't stack up. Actually, these outpourings crumble under the weight of duplicity and aversion to responsibility for your own actions/words.
You're a light-weight in this universe...get over it.
P.S. I love the "creationist wingnuts" blerb; I suppose that makes you a "non-creationist wingnut".
Other Comments by tron22