




















Lying for Jesus?Mark Mathis, a producer of the film who attended the screening, said that "of course" he had recognized Dr. Dawkins, but allowed him to attend because "he has handled himself fairly honorably, he is a guest in our country and I had to presume he had flown a long way to see the film."
It would appear that Expelled's producer Mark Mathis was not being truthful when he told me tonight that Crossroads was a 'working title' for the film Expelled. As Wesley Elsberry points out, the domain for Expelled was purchased before most, if not all, of the interviews were conducted -- and yet Richard Dawkins, Eugenie Scott, PZ Myers, and others were told they were being interviewed for a film called Crossroads.
Mr. Mark Mathis, do you want to come here and explain yourself?
1052. Comment #159793 by alan baylis on April 13, 2008 at 7:00 am
Now, who haven't I called a fuckwit today?1053. Comment #159795 by Geoff on April 13, 2008 at 7:03 am
Now, who haven't I called a fuckwit today?
I do give a shit about us lot, here, and the discussions we have.
1054. Comment #159797 by Bonzai on April 13, 2008 at 7:11 am
epeeistYou [bigcanuck] have qualifications in biology (where from?), you call evolutionary biologists "Darwinists" and you either don't know the difference between abiogenesis and evolution or are prepared to accept that Stein is dishonestly trying to conflate the two.
Something doesn't quite ring true I'm afraid.
1055. Comment #159799 by Styrer- on April 13, 2008 at 7:14 am
Comment #159792 by Peacebeuponme on April 13,2008 at 6:59 am
Styrer
My (now seemingly insubstantial) point was that we have a freedom here which Richard Morgan is going to sorely miss.
No, that is a substantial point which we need to remind ourselves of. Its why I and I suspect many others spend a lot of time here. There are not many places like this on the web.
1056. Comment #159804 by Styrer- on April 13, 2008 at 7:22 am
Comment #159793 by alan baylis on April 13, 2008 at 7:00 am
1057. Comment #159806 by David A Robertson on April 13, 2008 at 7:24 am
Sorry to butt in - I have no wish to intrude on the high standard of debate but I do feel that poor Styrer is getting himself worked up over nothing. I will reply and then leave you to continue your intellectual discussion..1058. Comment #159807 by Bonzai on April 13, 2008 at 7:26 am
I think styrer swears too much and at times abusive. Jon makes too many links (see I asked him not to, nicely) and is rather, as styrer said, verbose and too much of a pedant (but wait til styrer meets Terantonis)1059. Comment #159808 by Bonzai on April 13, 2008 at 7:30 am
Hi, David,Its not really that difficult - unless you are a fundamentalist who thinks that there is only one absolutely literal way to read anything. When Jesus said I am the door - he did not mean that he was made of wood and had a handle. He meant that he was the way to God. That is how metaphor works
1060. Comment #159810 by epeeist on April 13, 2008 at 7:31 am
So, given that this registration was made in December 2006, and assuming that clearthinker, the wee flea etc. are just synonyms then what are we to make of the claim made in the "Fleabytes" thread that the poster was banned from the site? Just an id that he had forgotten he had lying around?
Sorry to butt in - I have no wish to intrude on the high standard of debate but I do feel that poor Styrer is getting himself worked up over nothing. I will reply and then leave you to continue your intellectual discussion..
1061. Comment #159812 by Corylus on April 13, 2008 at 7:36 am
1062. Comment #159813 by Styrer- on April 13, 2008 at 7:36 am
Comment #159806 by David A Robertson on April 13, 2008 at 7:24 am
Sorry to butt in - I have no wish to intrude on the high standard of debate but I do feel that poor Styrer is getting himself worked up over nothing. I will reply and then leave you to continue your intellectual discussion..
Styrer asks 'Robertson has NEVER deigned to respond to my question of how metaphorical readings can POSSIBLY lead to assertions of REALITY for those metaphorical parts which he has admitted are key to his doctrine."
Its not really that difficult - unless you are a fundamentalist who thinks that there is only one absolutely literal way to read anything. When Jesus said I am the door - he did not mean that he was made of wood and had a handle. He meant that he was the way to God. That is how metaphor works.
Sorry for the intrusion... Now I must leave this oasis of clear thinking, freedom,love and reason and return to the cess pool of Christianity....
Tot Ziens....
1063. Comment #159814 by Peacebeuponme on April 13, 2008 at 7:41 am
Just to be clear for anybody reading David's wonderfully sneering post (I thought only atheists sneered?):Sorry for the intrusion... Now I must leave this oasis of clear thinking, freedom,love and reason and return to the cess pool of Christianity....A few posts amongst thousands are not up to the same intellectual standards of the vast majority. Just bear that in mind. There are many, many examples of wonderful science, philosophy and debate here. This site is a fantastic learning tool.
1064. Comment #159815 by Cartomancer on April 13, 2008 at 7:44 am
1065. Comment #159816 by Styrer- on April 13, 2008 at 7:44 am
Comment #159807 by Bonzai on April 13, 2008 at 7:26 am
1066. Comment #159817 by alan baylis on April 13, 2008 at 7:45 am
there you are!1067. Comment #159818 by Bonzai on April 13, 2008 at 7:48 am
Swearing is not that big a deal. I thought styrer was an asshole, but after reading a few of his posts more carefully, I think he is just a cranky guy with a colourful vocabulary. I can take that, but there are genuinely nasty people who like to shoot you with snide remarks behind a facade of civility, such as a certain minister.1068. Comment #159822 by David A Robertson on April 13, 2008 at 7:48 am
Oh,dear,1069. Comment #159824 by Styrer- on April 13, 2008 at 7:52 am
I think he is just a cranky guy with a colourful vocabulary.
1070. Comment #159827 by BillySands on April 13, 2008 at 7:57 am
1071. Comment #159831 by Styrer- on April 13, 2008 at 8:07 am
And yes Styrer, I do come and go as I please. We call that freedom. And you really do need to look up a dictionary (and not for more swear words!). I did NOT answer as though I were a fundamentalist, I said 'unless' you are a fundamentalist.
'it is a Sunday and I do have better things to do.'
1072. Comment #159833 by epeeist on April 13, 2008 at 8:11 am
Registration page for David A Robertson
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:48 am
Last visited: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:16 pm
Registration page for clearthinker
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:49 am
Last visited: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:07 am
1073. Comment #159838 by Styrer- on April 13, 2008 at 8:20 am
Comment #159812 by Corylus on April 13, 2008 at 7:36 am
Teehee.
I am now tempted to ask Stryer what he thinks of that Westlife* cover of Father and Son, but I wouldn't want to get him cross :-)
1074. Comment #159842 by Peacebeuponme on April 13, 2008 at 8:28 am
StyrerIt was a fucking travesty. (It was Boyzone, by the way.)The pedant in me is duty bound to tell you it was Ronan Keating (and not all of Boyzone).
1075. Comment #159844 by Dr Benway on April 13, 2008 at 8:32 am
1076. Comment #159848 by Styrer- on April 13, 2008 at 8:46 am
Comment #159842 by Peacebeuponme on April 13, 2008 at 8:28 am
Styrer
It was a fucking travesty. (It was Boyzone, by the way.)
The pedant in me is duty bound to tell you it was Ronan Keating (and not all of Boyzone).
1077. Comment #159850 by Styrer- on April 13, 2008 at 8:53 am
Comment #159844 by Dr Benway on April 13, 2008 at 8:32 am
1078. Comment #159851 by Corylus on April 13, 2008 at 8:55 am
What to do about all thisMaybe one of us should offer to 'fight alongside them' when they come on so they don't feel swamped? This will
1079. Comment #159852 by phil rimmer on April 13, 2008 at 8:59 am
Under which number do you yourself fall, my good Doctor?
1080. Comment #159853 by Logicel on April 13, 2008 at 8:59 am
1081. Comment #159855 by Frankus1122 on April 13, 2008 at 9:03 am
What to do about all this?
1082. Comment #159857 by phil rimmer on April 13, 2008 at 9:05 am
1083. Comment #159860 by Bonzai on April 13, 2008 at 9:20 am
Frankus,
Well, if everyone was like me we would have no problems whatsoever. Can we try that?..
What happens when the name calling starts is that it reflects badly on the person doing the name calling. It also dirties the pool. To stick with this metaphor,..
1084. Comment #159865 by Logicel on April 13, 2008 at 9:28 am
1085. Comment #159868 by Styrer- on April 13, 2008 at 9:30 am
Comment #159844 by Dr Benway on April 13, 2008 at 8:32 am
1086. Comment #159869 by Styrer- on April 13, 2008 at 9:32 am
Comment #159851 by Corylus on April 13, 2008 at 8:55 am
Hurray! I now know how to talk down Styrer when he gets wound up: distract with Cat Stevens.
I'm a' singin' Moon Shadow next time :-)
Dr Benway
What to do about all this
Maybe one of us should offer to 'fight alongside then' when they come on so they don't feel swamped? This will
a) Provide good practice for the person playing 'Devil's (Christian's?) Avocate.
b) Stop the new guy feeling swamped.
c) Seem fair
d) Maybe cut down on rudeness.
I'm willing to do this now and again, but would probably be best twinned with an Anglican moderate as I know that best... real biblebots will need someone else.
1087. Comment #159872 by phil rimmer on April 13, 2008 at 9:53 am
1088. Comment #159874 by Dr Benway on April 13, 2008 at 9:55 am
Styrer: Corylus, don't forget. The theists already know.Well yes. But I was once a theist. Look at all the non-believers who were fundamentalists until well into their adult years - e.g., Michael Shermer, Dan Barker, briancoughlinworldcitizen.
Terrifying.
1089. Comment #159876 by alan baylis on April 13, 2008 at 10:00 am
As an outsider who has read many of his posts, this Robertson character seems to me like some strange antithesis of what St. Francis was supposed be like. I wonder if he actually does imagine that he is fighting the devil here? Or does it just get up his nose that there are so many here he could never hope to intellectually dominate.1090. Comment #159886 by Quetzalcoatl on April 13, 2008 at 10:44 am
Jesus Quetz, if my little tiff with Styrer- was just verging, I'd hate to see what you would call a real "slanging match".
1091. Comment #159889 by kaiserkriss on April 13, 2008 at 10:57 am
1092. Comment #159893 by Corylus on April 13, 2008 at 11:05 am
1093. Comment #159894 by epeeist on April 13, 2008 at 11:06 am
Shudder, you mean there are two David Robertson's who are ministers in Dundee?
The probability that this character is "our" David, weaflee, clearthinker etc, is surely quite low.
1094. Comment #159899 by Frankus1122 on April 13, 2008 at 11:18 am
I have noticed myself throwing out the odd 'get of jail free' card to people when I feel sorry for them - or I think they are being swamped. Anyway, I always test out ideas by looking into the opposite position. *shrugs*
1095. Comment #159900 by Polydactyl on April 13, 2008 at 11:20 am
To Dr Benway's point:1096. Comment #159902 by Quetzalcoatl on April 13, 2008 at 11:23 am
1097. Comment #159904 by kaiserkriss on April 13, 2008 at 11:34 am
1098. Comment #159905 by epeeist on April 13, 2008 at 11:34 am
Now I am really baffled. Posts early in 2007 then a big gap until today. Was the id blocked, was it live and unused, being saved for a rainy day if other id's were blocked?
"David A Robertson" is, I think, the real DR. Click on the "Other Comments By" if you don't believe me. They go back quite a way.
1099. Comment #159907 by Quetzalcoatl on April 13, 2008 at 11:36 am
1100. Comment #159908 by black wolf on April 13, 2008 at 11:38 am
1051. Comment #159792 by Peacebeuponme on April 13, 2008 at 6:59 am
StyrerNo, that is a substantial point which we need to remind ourselves of. Its why I and I suspect many others spend a lot of time here. There are not many places like this on the web.Other Comments by Peacebeuponme