Lying for Jesus?Mark Mathis, a producer of the film who attended the screening, said that "of course" he had recognized Dr. Dawkins, but allowed him to attend because "he has handled himself fairly honorably, he is a guest in our country and I had to presume he had flown a long way to see the film."
It would appear that Expelled's producer Mark Mathis was not being truthful when he told me tonight that Crossroads was a 'working title' for the film Expelled. As Wesley Elsberry points out, the domain for Expelled was purchased before most, if not all, of the interviews were conducted -- and yet Richard Dawkins, Eugenie Scott, PZ Myers, and others were told they were being interviewed for a film called Crossroads.
Mr. Mark Mathis, do you want to come here and explain yourself?
4702. Comment #169541 by Steve Zara on April 26, 2008 at 9:04 am
4703. Comment #169542 by BillySands on April 26, 2008 at 9:05 am
4704. Comment #169543 by Paula Kirby on April 26, 2008 at 9:10 am
Steve Zara: As this thread has become the new "Fleabytes", I think this is the appropriate place..At the risk of alienating every non-British, non-Radio-4-listening person on this website - what's going to become of Samantha now? And Mrs Trellis of North Wales? And I shall miss him too. Though possibly for different reasons.
A true legend has just died. And, in his memory, I say:
Oxford circus....
4705. Comment #169545 by MPhil on April 26, 2008 at 9:11 am
4706. Comment #169546 by The Reverend Dark on April 26, 2008 at 9:12 am
4707. Comment #169548 by MPhil on April 26, 2008 at 9:16 am
4708. Comment #169549 by riandouglas on April 26, 2008 at 9:17 am
Romans 1:22 (Weymouth New Testament)
While boasting of their wisdom they became utter fools
4709. Comment #169550 by Paula Kirby on April 26, 2008 at 9:21 am
MPhil: Ah, someone from "I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue" evidentallyHumphrey Lyttelton himself, no less. A fabulous musician and an outrageously funny man. A real one-off.
4710. Comment #169553 by txpiper on April 26, 2008 at 9:32 am
My original comment was in response to the claim that there is no geological evidence for a planet-wide flood event. Such a statement, in view of the amounts and distribution of the sediments, is rather dismissive in my view. One may argue about the interpretation of the evidence, but you can't say that it isn't there.4711. Comment #169555 by MaxD on April 26, 2008 at 9:38 am
Remnant:
Instead of sneering at the genuine attempts of people to accommodate and hence understand your arguments, could you please answer the questions put to you in the manner you have been asked to answer them in.
You have not answered riandouglas' or epeeist's questions and these are the only people I am aware of that have asked questions so apologies to those who have asked you a question but I have not mentioned.
Thank you for your cooperation.
4712. Comment #169557 by BillySands on April 26, 2008 at 9:46 am
One may argue about the interpretation of the evidence, but you can't say that it isn't there.
4713. Comment #169562 by riandouglas on April 26, 2008 at 9:54 am
txpiper: My original comment was in response to the claim that there is no geological evidence for a planet-wide flood event. Such a statement, in view of the amounts and distribution of the sediments, is rather dismissive in my view. One may argue about the interpretation of the evidence, but you can't say that it isn't there.
txpiper: As to the fossils, they only seem to complicate the conventional views which require many small or large scale flood events over long periods of time. A single species being found in a particular strata on multiple continents, seems too uniform for this to have been the case.
4714. Comment #169563 by Geoff on April 26, 2008 at 9:55 am
As to the fossils, they only seem to complicate the conventional views which require many small or large scale flood events over long periods of time. A single species being found in a particular strata on multiple continents, seems too uniform for this to have been the case.
4715. Comment #169564 by BillySands on April 26, 2008 at 9:55 am
And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land.
4716. Comment #169565 by riandouglas on April 26, 2008 at 9:56 am
MaxD: I can't help but one more....does it trouble you at all that there isn't a shread of historical evidence for this story?
It would bug the hell out of me.
4717. Comment #169572 by MaxD on April 26, 2008 at 10:20 am
4718. Comment #169574 by SRWB on April 26, 2008 at 10:24 am
God only has a problem with Egyptians, Midianites, Philistines, assorted others and of course his own people (except Noah). Oh yes, he's the greatest "lover" of all times!4719. Comment #169578 by Diacanu on April 26, 2008 at 10:36 am
I can't see this God having a sincere problem with abortion.
4720. Comment #169581 by Steve Zara on April 26, 2008 at 10:49 am
My original comment was in response to the claim that there is no geological evidence for a planet-wide flood event. Such a statement, in view of the amounts and distribution of the sediments, is rather dismissive in my view. One may argue about the interpretation of the evidence, but you can't say that it isn't there.
As to the fossils, they only seem to complicate the conventional views which require many small or large scale flood events over long periods of time. A single species being found in a particular strata on multiple continents, seems too uniform for this to have been the case.
4721. Comment #169586 by MaxD on April 26, 2008 at 11:06 am
One may argue about the interpretation of the evidence, but you can't say that it isn't there.
4722. Comment #169589 by tulum on April 26, 2008 at 11:10 am
Please peservere one and all. I understand you are all getting frustrated by R's incredible ability to avoid answering any of the important questions you are asking him (mainly by quoting mythology)- but I repeat what I stated earlier that this is a brilliant thread and all creationists should be directed to it. You have treated the idiots fairly and asked them basic questions which they should know - as they appear to have a direct line to God. I think this thread will not be wasted on some of the "soft" (is there any such thing)religious believers who may chance upon this site. You are all doing a great job.4723. Comment #169594 by Elli on April 26, 2008 at 11:33 am
Anyway, one of the big sticking points for these secular scientists is the something from nothing thingy. They have to find a way around this at all costs. Anything goes as long as it is not associated with God. They have to find a way for something to begin to exist from nothing.
4724. Comment #169597 by Quine on April 26, 2008 at 11:40 am
4725. Comment #169607 by alovrin on April 26, 2008 at 11:55 am
OH MY Fucking DogIn the pivotal event of societal evolution, beer was invented.
Neither the glass bottle or aluminum can had yet been invented, so it was necessary to stick pretty close to the brewery. That's how villages were formed.
Some men spent their days killing animals to barbecue at night while they were drinking beer. This was the beginning of the conservative movement.
Other men who were weaker and less skilled at hunting, learned how to live off conservatives by showing up for the BBQs every night and doing women's work like sewing, fetching and hair dressing. This was the beginning of the liberal movement. Later, some of the liberals actually became women.
Modern Liberals like imported beer.Conservatives drink domestic beer.
Conservatives have principles, believe in a Creator, and the rule of law. They practice charity and give to the poor, normally through their churches. When in doubt on an issue, they check both the Bible and the Constitution, which they use as a constant reference in a changing world. They believe in the concept of truth.
Liberals do not have principles, except for their dedication to stealing productivity of conservatives and undermining principled references such as the Bible and Constitution
Conservatives believe in self defense, both at home and abroad. They own guns and use them to discourage liberals and other common criminals. They provide guns to the armed forces to discourage foreign liberals and other foreign criminals.
Liberals do not believe in conservative self defense. They disarm conservatives, and then attack them with impunity by liberal armies with guns. King George, Hitler and Stalin were all liberals
4726. Comment #169609 by txpiper on April 26, 2008 at 11:58 am
"It is sensible to pick the most parsimonious explanation. You could just as well say that the sediments were placed there by aliens, so the sediment is proof little green men."4727. Comment #169610 by Steve Zara on April 26, 2008 at 12:02 pm
It has to be acknowledged that the sediments are there, and sediments are by and large formed by materials suspended in floodwaters.
Well I might agree with you, but the multiple floods idea is part of establishment geology.
4728. Comment #169614 by Quetzalcoatl on April 26, 2008 at 12:06 pm
If the same species is found preserved on different continents and in the same strata, then there either has to be one flood which was world-wide or multiple floods which occurred quite distant from each other.
4729. Comment #169624 by mesomodel on April 26, 2008 at 12:21 pm
4730. Comment #169683 by BillySands on April 26, 2008 at 2:39 pm
It has to be acknowledged that the sediments are there, and sediments are by and large formed by materials suspended in floodwaters.
4731. Comment #169691 by melissajoy1234 on April 26, 2008 at 3:07 pm
I hope Mr. Dawkins reads this. I am an ignorant American who had never heard of you before I watched "Expelled". I haven't read your books (yet) nor had I heard of most of the people in the movie (pretty much all of them but Ben Stein). Again, I'm an ignorant American woman. But one comment you made in the interview that really struck a cord with me: you read a portion from your book that basically went on a rampage of the God of the Old Testament and you said some pretty harsh things about him. Immediately I realized what was going on. . .no matter how much Scientists, Atheists, Agnostics, Christians, Jews, or anyone else for that matter try to argue fact and fiction, one thing stands true: it is all a spiritual problem, not one of intellect, religion, or politics. This rang true in your very words against the God who did INDEED create you and the earth and all that is in it. Your apparent hostility towards this seemingly harsh God (who, if you read the Old Testament, is seen repeatedly over and over again forgiving and redeeming His people, even when they didn't deserve it), merely showed me that something within your spirit is striving against God. It is a spiritual issue, Mr. Dawkins, and I pray that you find peace with Him and with yourself before your final day on this earth.4732. Comment #169693 by newskin on April 26, 2008 at 3:17 pm
4733. Comment #169694 by tulum on April 26, 2008 at 3:21 pm
It really is a tag team isn't it folks.Please carry on as before (and melissa it might have been useful to read this post from the start - just a hint which I have given another creationist). I have a feeling you may be asked to justify what you believe.4734. Comment #169697 by tulum on April 26, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Side issue PS Quetzacoatl - South American mythology rules. My wife and I did a trip around (slightly different-I know) the Mayan sites of Chichen,Tulum, Uxmal and the Puuc route.4735. Comment #169698 by mesomodel on April 26, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Again, I'm an ignorant American woman.
4736. Comment #169699 by Corylus on April 26, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Whether or not the producers were deceptive in gaining your interviews, why is that an issue?Don't you get cross when you are lied to? I know I do. In fact when people lie to me I start to wonder about their characters and their motivations.
4737. Comment #169701 by MaxD on April 26, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Again, I may not have the degrees you have, the intelligent brain and abilities to reason as you, or even the desire to learn as much as you. But you said in your interview that if you died and you did meet God face to face, you would ask Him why he kept himself so hidden. I think His response will be "Richard, I was right there all the time. It was YOU who kept ME hidden, remember?"
4738. Comment #169704 by AllanW on April 26, 2008 at 3:59 pm
4739. Comment #169705 by mikejswalker on April 26, 2008 at 4:02 pm
All hail Humph. Utterly deadpan. A lovely man.4740. Comment #169707 by Diacanu on April 26, 2008 at 4:07 pm
I think His response will be "Richard, I was right there all the time. It was YOU who kept ME hidden, remember?"
4741. Comment #169709 by MaxD on April 26, 2008 at 4:09 pm
4742. Comment #169713 by Cartomancer on April 26, 2008 at 4:12 pm
4743. Comment #169715 by Steve Zara on April 26, 2008 at 4:17 pm
But one comment you made in the interview that really struck a cord with me: you read a portion from your book that basically went on a rampage of the God of the Old Testament and you said some pretty harsh things about him.
I think His response will be "Richard, I was right there all the time. It was YOU who kept ME hidden, remember?"
4744. Comment #169718 by Corylus on April 26, 2008 at 4:21 pm
4745. Comment #169722 by Bonzai on April 26, 2008 at 4:26 pm
It seems to me we have a homeopathic god - diluted by reason and observation to the point where he is no longer there.
4746. Comment #169724 by Cartomancer on April 26, 2008 at 4:28 pm
I read it as a huge 'distraction' piece.Hmm, maybe you're right. It's certainly stopped me thinking about his pettifogging religious inanities. Something of a foot-shot perhaps in that now we're wondering quite what sort of mind resorts to that as their smokescreen, but I guess there are mysteries beyond the ken of science after all...
4747. Comment #169726 by MaxD on April 26, 2008 at 4:30 pm
4748. Comment #169729 by Steve Zara on April 26, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Is it baking night on RD.net now then? Shall I share my special recipe for walnut cake or bread and butter pudding?
4749. Comment #169732 by Cartomancer on April 26, 2008 at 4:37 pm
4750. Comment #169734 by Bonzai on April 26, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Coylus beats me to it. I was about to say he got into this whole side issue on conservatives v.s liberals as a way to avoid answering the flood question.
4701. Comment #169540 by riandouglas on April 26, 2008 at 9:04 am
You're wrong, because AiG says different, nerr! :-)
from the link: "At its peak, this runaway instability allows the subduction rates of the plates to reach amazing speeds of feet-per-second."
According to AiG, the continents were cruising apart at walking pace.
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