Tuesday, July 29, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version

Print | Comments |

Council ban on atheist websites

by BBC

A city council has blocked its staff from looking at websites about atheism.

Lawyers at the National Secular Society said the move by Birmingham City Council was "discriminatory" and they would consider legal action.

The rules also ban sites that promote witchcraft, the paranormal, sexual deviancy and criminal activity.

The city council declined to comment on the possible legal action, but said the new system helped make it easier for managers to monitor staff web access.

'Very strong case'

The authority's Bluecoat Software computer system allows staff to look at websites relating to Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and other religions but blocks sites to do with "witchcraft or Satanism" and "occult practices, atheistic views, voodoo rituals or any other form of mysticism".

Under the Employment Equality (Religion or Belief) Regulations 2003, it is unlawful to discriminate against workers because of their religion or belief, which includes atheism.

National Secular Society president Terry Sanderson said the city council's rules also discriminated against people who practise witchcraft, which is also classed as a legitimate belief.

He said the society would initially contact the council and ask for the policy to be changed, and otherwise pursue legal action.

He said he believed he would have a "very strong case".

Mr Sanderson said: "It is discriminatory not only against atheists but they also are banning access to sites to do with witchcraft.

"Witchcraft these days is called Wicca, which is an actual legitimate and recognised religion.

"We feel very strongly that people who don't believe should not be denied the access that people who do believe have got."

He added that some opinion polls said that up to 25% of the UK population now considered themselves atheist.

A city council statement said the authority had a "long-standing internet usage policy for staff".

It added: "We are currently implementing new internet monitoring software to make the control of internet access easier to manage.

"The aim of this is to provide greater control for individual line managers to monitor internet usage, and for departments, such as trading standards and child protection, to gain access, if needed, to certain sites for business reasons."

Posted: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 | Permalink

Comments 51 - 100 of 122 |

Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers

51. Comment #221258 by J Mac on July 29, 2008 at 1:14 pm

"The rules also ban sites that promote witchcraft, the paranormal..."

Paranormal: beyond normal scientific explanation (online dictionary)

"...allows staff to look at websites relating to Christianity, Islam, Hinduism"

I'd let this one go just as soon as they provide a normal scientific explanation of a cracker turning into human flesh, an invisible man who can hear your thoughts, and how Vishnu has more lives than a cat.

Other Comments by J Mac

52. Comment #221263 by Notcrowingbutyawning on July 29, 2008 at 1:18 pm

Cock-up rather than conspiracy, I suspect.

However, they really need to do some explaining as to why they consider Christianity, Islam etc non-mystical. These preposterous assumptions need to be exposed. There's a variety of ways of doing this.

You could simply rationally challenge it every step of the way, or you could also get all sort of inclusive and start shouting about rights for Wiccans, Elvis believers, Jedi knights and the FSM.

I like the latter better than the former, but the beauty of it is that the former might arise from the latter as a result. Or at least we can hope so... Too much to hope?... oh, alright!

Other Comments by Notcrowingbutyawning

53. Comment #221266 by TQY on July 29, 2008 at 1:20 pm

If workers at Birmingham CC are allowed to use the internet for 'personal usage' during their lunch breaks, rest breaks etc (as many businesses and organisations allow), it is absolutely preposterous that websites relating to 'atheism' (or even witchcraft for that matter!) are banned, whilst christian and muslim sites are deemed acceptable.

It seems a clear case of discrimination, but I would be interested in hearing from the council themselves as to what their policy actually is...the extract from the council's statement in the article doesn't make that clear.

Other Comments by TQY

54. Comment #221284 by Teratornis on July 29, 2008 at 1:31 pm

Comment #221124 by thewhitepearl:

I know it's upsurd. Sometimes I wish I could carry around a stupidity bat, and have the ablity to transport myself. I'd spend my life dedicated to wacking stupidity out of people.

There's a certain elegance to the notion of using force to make people more rational. Of course this has long precedent, we call it "formal education."

After you finish whacking stupidity out of people, how many of them will still be drunks?

Other Comments by Teratornis

55. Comment #221298 by Michael King on July 29, 2008 at 1:40 pm

I wonder if websites devoted to veneration of The Ivisible Pink Unicorn (BBHHH) are acceptable to the Birmingham City Council...

Other Comments by Michael King

56. Comment #221315 by entheogensmurf on July 29, 2008 at 1:56 pm

Side note:

Here's a short bit on the evilness of Wiccan:

Wiccan morality is largely based on the Wiccan Rede: An it harm none, do what ye will, which is usually interpreted as a declaration of the freedom to act, along with the necessity of taking responsibility for what follows from one's actions and minimizing harm to oneself and others

Other Comments by entheogensmurf

57. Comment #221316 by Dr Technical on July 29, 2008 at 1:56 pm

Re comments 47,49, come on guys, give me some credit, I do understand the point of the original article. Note the ";-)"

We all know that banning atheist sites and not religious sites is plain bonkers.

People always moan about the criteria used when blocking web sites; my point is you are on slightly shaky ground saying you should be allowed to see atheist web sites at work.

Yes the council's policy is discriminatory, but the council workers shouldn't be looking at any non-work related sites, so we shouldn't argue that they should be allowed to look at atheist web sites, we should argue that they should block religious ones too.

Get on with some work, you lazy loafers, especially the retard who spends his life maintaining the block list rather than doing something useful ;-) <-----

Other Comments by Dr Technical

58. Comment #221317 by Martin S on July 29, 2008 at 1:57 pm

Hasn't the BCC got its categories wrong? Witchcraft, Satanism, occult practices, voodoo and mysticism all belong in the same category as Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism and other religions. Whereas atheism stands apart (even aloft and aloof).

Other Comments by Martin S

59. Comment #221330 by eellerto on July 29, 2008 at 2:05 pm

If we could only tag MySpace or Facebook with the term atheism. I am sure a quite a few people would get their knickers in a twist if they couldn't access those sites and this should get the situation rectified quickly. But, that is assuming that people check networking sites like these when they are supposed to be working. Now, that would be ludicrous, wouldn't it?

Other Comments by eellerto

60. Comment #221335 by J Mac on July 29, 2008 at 2:08 pm

We do have to realize that a large portion of the theist population does not know the difference between atheism and satanism.

I think that oversight should be considered criminal stupidity, it is a view that is widely held.

Other Comments by J Mac

61. Comment #221357 by Ian Bamlett on July 29, 2008 at 2:32 pm

Ah, good old Brum!

Went to Aston Uni in the early 90's. Good Balti to be had there.

I wonder if they still have the Saddam Hussein Mosque? (No I am not joking)

Other Comments by Ian Bamlett

62. Comment #221383 by Eshto on July 29, 2008 at 3:04 pm

"sexual deviancy"

Ten bucks says they lump homosexuality into this, along with pedophilia and rape.

That's usually how these kind of people think.

Other Comments by Eshto

63. Comment #221385 by SASnSA on July 29, 2008 at 3:07 pm

"We do have to realize that a large portion of the theist population does not know the difference between atheism and satanism."

Worse than that, I was brainwa... er... brought up to be a Baptist(I've since gotten better), and remember from before the current political correctness, being taught that any religion outside of Christianity was the tool of the Devil.

My opinion on the current subject? If they're gonna block atheist and the less "popular" religious sites, they better be blocking ALL religious sites.

Other Comments by SASnSA

64. Comment #221390 by stephenray on July 29, 2008 at 3:16 pm

What's the definition of irony?

A National Secular Society chairman asserting that it is against the law to discriminate against those wanting to access witchcraft websites on the grounds that it is a 'legitimate' religion.

It's not only ironic, it's also risible. They'll be starting a 'crystal healing' religion next.

Other Comments by stephenray

65. Comment #221391 by Vinelectric on July 29, 2008 at 3:16 pm

Dr Technical

Re comments 47,49, come on guys, give me some credit, I do understand the point of the original article. Note the ";-)"

Trust me, I know the feeling!

Other Comments by Vinelectric

66. Comment #221395 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 3:22 pm

:-)
Carto

I'm sure the dour, chip-munching, whippet-fancying northerners who inhabit that benighted realm won't put up with such nonsense for long.

By 'eck, lad, Brummies are southerners, tha knows.

I can sort of understand this thing - I mean, the amount of time I spend on this site, I'm surprised it isn't banned here :-)

As it is, I can't see it lasting long. Be banning religious sites next, cause an uproar, bring back all the sites.

I seem to recall a university I worked in tried to ban all words of a sexual nature. Got a bit hard at the medical dept..."those rats you tested, what sex were they?" - ZAP!

Too many stupid people around being promoted beyond their level of competence! The Peter Principle is alive and well, I see....

Other Comments by Goldy

67. Comment #221404 by thewhitepearl on July 29, 2008 at 3:32 pm

Of course this has long precedent, we call it "formal education."

After you finish whacking stupidity out of people, how many of them will still be drunks?

[whack]

Sometimes formal education doesn't work and people need a good whop on their heads.

Can't answer your second question. Depends, can't see into the future. Although I bet a great many of them won't be drunks.

Other Comments by thewhitepearl

68. Comment #221409 by thewhitepearl on July 29, 2008 at 3:37 pm

What you call the stupidity bat is what I tell my students is the "gentle hand of reality reaching down to smack some sense into you." LOL

Oh no, my bat would not be gentle

who was born a Muslim,

[smack] No. You weren't born anything other then human and whatever sex you are. And dont you forget it. :)

Other Comments by thewhitepearl

69. Comment #221411 by davem on July 29, 2008 at 3:39 pm

This is a non-story as far as Birmingham council are concerned. . The software they use (Bloecoat) lumps atheism in with the occult, so it's the fault of the software vendors, who are American.

Other Comments by davem

70. Comment #221413 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 3:40 pm

[smack] No. You weren't born anything other then human and whatever sex you are. And dont you forget it. :)

Gentle tap...
You weren't born anything other THAN human and whatever sex you are. And DON'T you forget it.

Runs away before being hit by bat!

Other Comments by Goldy

71. Comment #221416 by Apathy personified on July 29, 2008 at 3:42 pm

Oh for fucks sake. I hope they get burnt, badly, for that - ban them all, or ban none, no half measures - they are breaking their own rules.
Another bureaucratic institution making decisions it doesn't have the authority to.

Other Comments by Apathy personified

72. Comment #221425 by thewhitepearl on July 29, 2008 at 3:51 pm

You weren't born anything other THAN human and whatever sex you are. And DON'T you forget it.

Noted. Lol jeebus you and laurie are on my case today.

Other Comments by thewhitepearl

73. Comment #221429 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 3:53 pm

Noted. Lol jeebus you and laurie are on my case today.

And I have only just begun :-) Day has only just started (well, 10:53 am...I am a late starter...)

Other Comments by Goldy

74. Comment #221439 by thewhitepearl on July 29, 2008 at 4:08 pm

Oh well, what are you guys going to do without me for a month?

Other Comments by thewhitepearl

75. Comment #221455 by crabsallover on July 29, 2008 at 4:31 pm

Admin please remember to give source of articles. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/7530519.stm

I'm sure Terry Sanderson will have more details in the NSS Newsline this Friday.

Other Comments by crabsallover

76. Comment #221461 by shaunfletcher on July 29, 2008 at 4:39 pm

Me and councils do not get along (pitchforks and torches should be involved), but I might almost defend this one here for a moment.

I would suggest the order of events to be something like this:

1: Council buys (american for what thats worth) filtering software called Bluecoat without really understanding what they are doing. This isnt a very smart move as filtering software is all rubbish but its normal enough.
2: Council puts out some press release or document saying they are doing this in an effort to look proactive.
3: Journo reads it in an idle moment, looks up Bluecoat software online and finds the list of things it filters out. This turns out to include some very stupid things as usual.
4: Journo thinks ohoh nice story here, Ill email my mate at the Secular society and get a response.
5: profit.

Given the level of PC in operation at councils in the UK, its just inconcievable that an actual policy decision was made to block wicca, spiritualism, atheism etc while allowing religious content. Someone just wasnt thinking. Which is all too concievable.

Shaun

Other Comments by shaunfletcher

77. Comment #221526 by Simonw on July 29, 2008 at 5:44 pm

A National Secular Society chairman asserting that it is against the law to discriminate against those wanting to access witchcraft websites on the grounds that it is a 'legitimate' religion.

I don't think membership of the NSS implies atheism. Whilst they claim to be a leading group campaigning for the rights of non-believers, the name and definition are strictly the separation of church and state.

So clearly they can't see how witchcraft is any different from Christianity - in my experience Wiccans are more interesting but that doesn't give the state the right to prefer one set of churches over another.

So not ironic.

Other Comments by Simonw

78. Comment #221544 by Jasem on July 29, 2008 at 6:17 pm

Stenev Mading nails it on the head :

"There's one big detail missing in the report, and it's kind of important. Did the council of Birmingham explicitly set up a block against atheism or was it just the way the software came by default from the vendor."

My guess is that all this bluster is for nothing, and there was no concerted effort to stop people from viewing those sites.

I suspect this is sensationalist BBC journalism.

Other Comments by Jasem

79. Comment #221548 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 6:24 pm

Best thing to do would be to ask them
http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/

Other Comments by Goldy

80. Comment #221557 by fizhburn on July 29, 2008 at 6:54 pm

twp said

Oh well, what are you guys going to do without me for a month?

Call ex-es and give them presents?

(edits: for punchiness, extra NSFWitude)

Other Comments by fizhburn

81. Comment #221564 by Laurie Fraser on July 29, 2008 at 7:28 pm

Oh well, what are you guys going to do without me for a month

Pine, my dear, pine. Whose spelling and grammar will I get to correct in your absence? Brian's cleaned up his act; Goldy speaks some funny dialect anyway; and 8teist can't even spell his own name.

BTW - to where are you off?

Other Comments by Laurie Fraser

82. Comment #221565 by Hellene on July 29, 2008 at 7:34 pm

*fanfare*

"The White Pearl, religious exorcist..."

With a Titanium alloy bat that has the word REASON emblazoned on it on neon glowing letters.

*bink*

She teleports into a cubicle.

"Stand back folks, this will only take a few seconds".

She walks up to a thirty something year old .
He whirls around in his swivel chair.

"Sorry Teratronis this is for your own good"!

She whacks him on the back of the head.

Teratronis' eyes bulge, his mouth opens, and a communion wafer pops out and lands on the floor.

He looks up.

"Sorry, I backslid".

TWP

"Not a problem feather monster".

She crushes the cracker underneath a stylish boot heel.

"Gotta go, there's a cargo cult that needs help".

*bink*

Other Comments by Hellene

83. Comment #221568 by chuckgoecke on July 29, 2008 at 8:03 pm

Damn, I read the article and scanned about halfway through the responses before I realized that we are NOT talking about Birmingham, Alabama. Sheesh, I must be getting senile, or maybe the triple digit Texas heat has cooked my brain. Or maybe, I don't usually expect this kind of thing from the UK. Alabama, maybe, UK... I'm confused... again.

Other Comments by chuckgoecke

84. Comment #221570 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 8:10 pm

Waste away pining for you? Or something similar... ;-)

Other Comments by Goldy

85. Comment #221575 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 8:18 pm

So that's your plan to loose the man-boobs Goldy? Don't you know that wasting away isn't good for your health?

Indeed! I must make myself worthy of ...errr.... well, summer's a-coming soon! Want to look good in Speedos!
I think I have reached the stage where wasting away is actually good for me!
:-D

Other Comments by Goldy

86. Comment #221593 by Cartomancer on July 29, 2008 at 9:17 pm

Harumph. As far as I'm concerned the North of England begins just north of the Oxford Ring Road. The climate ceases to be habitable for humankind roughly when you get to Northampton. Further north than this the landscape becomes a freezing tundra, where the hardy inhabitants eke out a sub-tribal existence - kicking yetis to death and drinking the blood of giant aurochs. Very occasionally an incursion of wild, skin-clad barbarian raiders emerges from some godforsaken hole like Hartlepool to steal away our menfolk, leaving much wailing and gnashing of teeth among the civilized peoples of the south.

Other Comments by Cartomancer

87. Comment #221595 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 9:25 pm

Carto, everyone knows that south of Northampton people begin to speak in a strange language (some call it Estuary) that I liken to French. Indeed, the deep south did have some Tour de France legs. Note the name of the cycle jaunt...
No, Southerners are a strange lot, taken to talking loudly and with a funny tone and drinking lager or wine. There is a strange dichotomy - one section speaks in braying tones and the other in unintelligible mumbles.
It is also too crowded there and the curries are not often worth eating...
;-)

Other Comments by Goldy

88. Comment #221596 by 8teist on July 29, 2008 at 9:28 pm

YEEHAAA, A fight

Other Comments by 8teist

89. Comment #221600 by mordacious1 on July 29, 2008 at 9:31 pm

8teist

It's a fight, but one I can't join in on since I know little of which they debate. Where's clearlywooter when you need him?

Other Comments by mordacious1

90. Comment #221601 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 9:31 pm

Yeah, but I'm as far away from Carto as I can be - any further and I'm actually getting closer :-) So he can't hit me...

Other Comments by Goldy

91. Comment #221602 by Cartomancer on July 29, 2008 at 9:31 pm

Well, I would step up to the plate, but it is half past five in the morning and I should really get some sleep. Wouldn't want to tackle tomorrow's Chicken Korma without being fully rested and prepared...

Other Comments by Cartomancer

92. Comment #221604 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 9:33 pm

5:30! What sort of hours do you keep, young man?? You'll get wrinkles, you know!

Other Comments by Goldy

93. Comment #221606 by 8teist on July 29, 2008 at 9:34 pm

What part of the old country are you from Goldy?

Other Comments by 8teist

94. Comment #221608 by 8teist on July 29, 2008 at 9:36 pm

Its ok Carto wednesday was shit, don`t bother going to work ,stay at home.

Other Comments by 8teist

95. Comment #221609 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 9:37 pm

Family is from Yorkshire - I'm the first since at least 1691 (the first ancestor on teh family tree I have) not to be born there. Penistone, near Barnsley. Baptised in Thurlstone church (against my father's wishes).
Mum's Austrian and I was actually born in Brunei. First language I spoke was Brazilian Portuguese because we were living there at teh language formative years. In fact, I actually thought I was Brazilian...

Chicken korma is OK but I have found hot butter chicken to be sublime. Make as hot as a vindaloo and there is an orgasm in the mouth!

Other Comments by Goldy

96. Comment #221610 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 9:39 pm

Its ok Carto wednesday was shit, don`t bother going to work ,stay at home.

Not joking. Rained all day.

Other Comments by Goldy

97. Comment #221612 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 9:41 pm

Saliva dribbling on keyboard. Need curry....
Speaking of which, time to pick up young lass and head off home to ill wife through traffic and rain.
I love winters in Auckland...

Other Comments by Goldy

98. Comment #221614 by 8teist on July 29, 2008 at 9:42 pm

So you been getting about then, Goldy.

My family is from Cornwall,got to NZ in january 1840 ,so I`m a koiwoi thru &thru.

Other Comments by 8teist

99. Comment #221616 by secondsoprano on July 29, 2008 at 10:08 pm

Its ok Carto wednesday was shit, don`t bother going to work ,stay at home.

Not joking. Rained all day.

And it was freezing. And I had a fight with my girlfriend. And now apparently religious Americans can torture children with impunity.

Altogether a right shit of a day.

Other Comments by secondsoprano

100. Comment #221619 by Kimpatsu on July 29, 2008 at 10:32 pm

@Felandath (#16):
You were not born a Muslim; you were born an atheist (what beliefs does a baby had), into a Muslim family. You were then indoctrinated into Islam before you finally broke free. Remmeber, RD himself constantly rails against the claims of "Muslim children", "Xian children", etc. Kids are too young to know what they believe.
---
@Steven Mading (#50):
Yes, Bluecoat is a crap piece of software that is configured to blanketly deny access to non-Xian websites. It's made by a company in California for religiose American parents.

Other Comments by Kimpatsu

Reload Comments | Back to Top