




















Dawkins Delusion (3rd article, Same Stupid Title)53. Comment #5938 by IAMWHATIAM on November 12, 2006 at 12:28 am
Many of the arguments here came across as rather intelligent in the beginning, then they became murkier and murkier as I started reading later down the way. Everyone knows that religion is bogus. Even religious people question their beliefs. As human beings, we all need something to believe in. The powers at the top realized this fact and cast the cloak of religion upon us, to control us. Deus ex machina, as was mentioned above, not only to play on our need for something to believe in but, even worse, the powers that be used this belief to dominate and control us, not just to appease us. All major religions stem from the Judaic principles and the old testament. I will concede that the teachings in the bible are immensely helpful in our day to day survival. There are amazing moral principles and spiritual teachings which help us get through the daily grind of our lives. The bible teaches us dietary codes, some of which have been dismissed as outdated and no longer relevant, but which come highly recommended for one's optimum health. The bible teaches us to treat each other fairly and as we like to be treated. I think all these principles are sound and highly recommended. I also believe in karma because many times I have suffered for my unkindness or mean thoughts toward others as, conversely, I have been rewarded for my good deeds. Maybe it is my mindset or personal beliefs or conditioning which makes all this happen or maybe there is actually a law of spiritual and mystical justice in the universe. You be the judge. There is a lot of power in our thoughts. Our thoughts even create and shape our reality. If you believe hard enough in something and work toward achieving it, it will happen. The key is to not only believe in it but work hard toward it.54. Comment #5939 by Jenna on November 12, 2006 at 1:10 am
"The clear fresh air of Jesus Christ"? The same Jesus who says that if you don't believe in him, his father (God, of course. All mythical heroes are demigods) will send you to a fiery pit that He had created just for that purpose to have you roast for eternity. Most people forget that jesus was not all "love and light". He demanded that anyone who would follow him would have to abandon, even hate, his birth family. He condemned the Pharisses for no longer stoning to death disobedient children. This is not the model of family values and love here.55. Comment #5940 by Jenna on November 12, 2006 at 1:39 am
Dear Mr. Robinson,56. Comment #5942 by melisande on November 12, 2006 at 1:54 am
David,57. Comment #5947 by Paul Creber on November 12, 2006 at 2:38 am
In a post above, No More Hornets invites us to visit his or her blog. Having just done so, I can commend it to everyoine as a rare repository of brilliance, wit and insight.58. Comment #5949 by Anonymous on November 12, 2006 at 2:48 am
Jack59. Comment #5950 by Paul Creber on November 12, 2006 at 2:53 am
In a post above, No More Hornets invites us to visit his or her blog. Having just done so, I can commend it to everyone as a rare repository of brilliance, wit and insight.60. Comment #5954 by Jack Sparrow on November 12, 2006 at 3:07 am
Anonymous (post 113)sounds suspiciously like Billy Sands. Anyway, I gave my second response to Gen 1& 2 so if you've responded to that then inform me of the location.61. Comment #5955 by Jack Sparrow on November 12, 2006 at 3:09 am
Post 116.62. Comment #5958 by oj on November 12, 2006 at 3:12 am
Holly63. Comment #5962 by Jack Sparrow on November 12, 2006 at 3:34 am
Sensible suggestion about sticking to the thread. Think I'll heed that as in some sense a "trust worthy saying that deserves full acceptance".64. Comment #5965 by Jack Sparrow on November 12, 2006 at 3:43 am
OK, quick response to Melisande (theres such a downside to being confronted by several atheists at once) and then I'm looking for Sand's position on Gen 1&2.65. Comment #5966 by maryhelena on November 12, 2006 at 3:44 am
Hi, Hugh (comment 86)66. Comment #5970 by Jack Sparrow on November 12, 2006 at 3:53 am
Am I ever going to escape??67. Comment #5971 by Lapsed Humanist on November 12, 2006 at 3:53 am
What causes such frustration among atheists and agnostics alike, and lead many - including myself - to refrain from engaging in discussions with devout evangelisers, are their often muddled and irrational discussion techniques;68. Comment #5972 by Lapsed Humanist on November 12, 2006 at 4:02 am
Ups.. meant to refer to Sparrow #595469. Comment #5979 by Jack Sparrow on November 12, 2006 at 4:40 am
OK, trying to escape from this thread is like trying to escape from Mobile.70. Comment #5983 by scot on November 12, 2006 at 5:01 am
Many of the posters on this thread are doing themselves a disfavour by making personal comments and challenges on David without knowing him. I have known for several years and while I do not share his beliefs I know him to be a man who strives to live up to his christian ideals. He is down to earth, very much in touch with the 'real world, open minded and accepting of others who do not share his faith.71. Comment #5987 by Jack Sparrow on November 12, 2006 at 5:09 am
14172. Comment #5988 by Yorker on November 12, 2006 at 5:14 am
Jack Sparrow,74. Comment #5997 by Jack Sparrow on November 12, 2006 at 6:24 am
No I do not believe that God is improving himself. The point about video cameras was simply that a greater level of sophistication or complexity in one (which in the cameras case is the more recent) does not alter the fact that the less sophisticated ones (ie the earlier) were designed by an intelligence. Similarly one can't say that because in respects the bird eye is superior to the human that therefore the human eye wasn't designed.75. Comment #5999 by Jack Sparrow on November 12, 2006 at 6:32 am
I read the article on talkorigins but I'm not sure you did, Billy.76. Comment #6007 by Lapsed Humanist on November 12, 2006 at 7:19 am
With all due respect David Robertson (Comment #5996) I believe that you cut my comment in a somewhat self-serving manner, sweetly emphasizing the validity of the last (ignored) part, which actually was the crux of the point (pasted at the end of this comment):77. Comment #6009 by Jack Sparrow on November 12, 2006 at 7:22 am
Hi Billy,78. Comment #6010 by Jack Sparrow on November 12, 2006 at 7:27 am
Archaeopteryx has fully formed, highly complex, interlocking feathers and shows evidence of being capable of powered flight. The fact that it had teeth doesn't resolve the issue of reptile to bird/scale to feather evolution or, indeed, evolution of teeth even. No series leads up to it and, I think, birds similar to modern birds have been found at the so-called lower levels.79. Comment #6026 by Jared on November 12, 2006 at 8:55 am
Mr. Robertson:80. Comment #6030 by Thomas on November 12, 2006 at 9:11 am
On the science side: something cannot always have been and everything cannot come from nothing. Where did matter/energy come from? Big Bang is a cop out on this, and postulating the multiverse doesn't help.81. Comment #6032 by Jack Sparrow on November 12, 2006 at 9:24 am
Billy, in regard to Archaeopteryx the evolutionist Alan Feduccia of the University of North Carolina says, " Paleontologists have tried to turn Archaeopteryx into an earthbound, feathered dinosaur. But its not. It is a bird, a perching bird. And no amount of paleobabble is going to change that"82. Comment #6037 by No More Hornets on November 12, 2006 at 9:51 am
David comments:83. Comment #6038 by No More Hornets on November 12, 2006 at 9:54 am
Oops. I lost David's quote. Here it is:84. Comment #6040 by Riley on November 12, 2006 at 10:05 am
David,87. Comment #6045 by Yorker on November 12, 2006 at 10:13 am
Fellow atheists,89. Comment #6056 by Anonymous on November 12, 2006 at 10:44 am
For anyone interested in finding out more about David Robertson's writings and beliefs go to http://www.freechurch.org and click on todays issues. You may not agree with his views but he's an interesting read90. Comment #6058 by No More Hornets on November 12, 2006 at 11:01 am
Billy and others:91. Comment #6073 by Terri on November 12, 2006 at 12:40 pm
#186. Mike I'm sure David would welcome you 'popping' into his church - even if it was for a laugh:-)92. Comment #6077 by Terri on November 12, 2006 at 12:57 pm
You should definitely go to St Pete's when you are in Dundee. Unlikely to be a hat in sight and don't assume that the person in front with a lovely mane is a lady - you could get a nasty shock!93. Comment #6082 by Bitterman on November 12, 2006 at 1:07 pm
159. Comment #6009 by Jack Sparrow on November 12, 2006 at 7:22 am94. Comment #6083 by Terri on November 12, 2006 at 1:11 pm
Times change Mike - even in the Free Church!95. Comment #6089 by Terri on November 12, 2006 at 1:32 pm
Not my purpose Mike. Not being a christian myself and with beliefs much more akin to Dawkins than to Robertson.96. Comment #6095 by goddogit on November 12, 2006 at 2:51 pm
Although there are theists who actually engage in debate, and who have undeniably charming theories that include a God/gods, they are essentially arguing a complementary position to the reasonable "live and let live" brand of atheist.97. Comment #6096 by Yorker on November 12, 2006 at 2:55 pm
Terri,99. Comment #6100 by Paul Creber on November 12, 2006 at 3:42 pm
Yorker:100. Comment #6116 by Paul on November 12, 2006 at 5:39 pm
Wow, this is an intelligent and well crafted view of RD's book. I can see that it really got to most readers of this site as well, seeing as it was posted 2 days ago and already has a comment pagination level of 5, and most of the comments are just stating that the writer of this entry is wrong and a dumb stoopid head.
51. Comment #5931 by Allison on November 11, 2006 at 10:49 pm
Dear DavidI called your letter utter Crap because of certain falsehoods contained within it. In case you are unaware of it, atheists in the USA are treated very badly. I gave a few examples in my life of things that have happened. I had quite a bit more things happen as well. I know that this is only anecdotal evidence, but when large numbers of atheists in the US have similar stories, one can notice a certain trend.
Since you assert that atheists in the US are not treated badly, and that this is false, why should I believe any of your other assertions that God, Jesus, and other supernatural friends exists? I'm a person that needs a certain level of evidence for me to accept that something is true. What empirical evidence can you show me for the existance of such supernatural beings? And don't give me the old "But they exist outside the natural universe and can't be observed."
If something interacts with the natural world, then it must be observable in the natural world and open to scientific investigation. You can't both insist that God affects nature, and then claim that God exists outside of nature and can't be studied. So where's your evidence? Or are you a Deist with a god completely out of the universe and does not directly interact with the universe? Which is it?