51. Comment #393073 by Fuller on July 3, 2009 at 12:21 am

I know it's only a pipe dream, but how super awesome would it be if Obama came out as the atheist many of us suspect he is. That would really shake things up.

Other Comments by Fuller

52. Comment #393079 by Jack Rawlinson on July 3, 2009 at 1:44 am

Oklahoma. Definitely the maddest state of the USA. And yes, I've been there.

Other Comments by Jack Rawlinson

53. Comment #393081 by Mr DArcy on July 3, 2009 at 1:50 am

Goldy says:

Damned if we do and damned if we don't - if any doubt, blame the Brits ;-)

That reminds me of the story of the Indian guy working in Britain and sending home money to his family in India. When he asked his bank why the amount of rupees was falling each month for the same amount of pounds he was answered with a shrug and "Fluctuations, fluctuations."

The Indian replied "Well fluck you bloody British too!"

Too hot here to put coat on.

Other Comments by Mr DArcy

54. Comment #393084 by RedBarchetta on July 3, 2009 at 1:55 am

http://bible-matters.com/
http://bible-matters.com/police-tell-christian-its-a-crime-to-say-homosexuality-is-a-sin/

This guy's been banging on about how badly treated his type of christians are because of their insistance that homosexuality is a sin. He's actually starting to sound like the BNP in that they know they are being offensive, reckon they have every right to insult their targets in public and still claim moral high ground themselves when people complain about them.

(Edited to get the urls ... right)

Other Comments by RedBarchetta

55. Comment #393085 by lackofgravitas on July 3, 2009 at 2:15 am

I think the unit of religiousness or spirituality should be called the 'ron'. With a small 'r'. then people can compare themselves to each other; 'you've got less rons than me, I'm a more-ron'.

They probably wouldn't see the irony, but it'd be hilarious for the rest of us to watch on TV.

Other Comments by lackofgravitas

56. Comment #393086 by Modo on July 3, 2009 at 2:20 am

I wonder if it is at all possible to chart the average world-wide moral zeitgeist for a particular moment in time, whilst concurrently calculating the average zeitgeist of the Christian faith community specifically (and other faiths as well perhaps as separate lines on the chart).

I imagine there would/might be a cross-over point in the distant past. On one day the faithful would have been ahead of the game, dragging the uneducated up into some semblance of half-decent behaviour, thus securing a legacy. The next day would be a draw of sorts. The day after that the ‘sheep’ begin to run with the idea that not hating actually feels quite nice, with the faithful crying “slow down, we can’t keep up… remember what we did for you… come BACK!”

Such a chart may allow us to make certain predictions. When we understand the brain and the nature of conscience, maybe the faithful will question mind/body dualism. When we understand the complete physical theory of everything, the nature of the universe and our place in it, maybe the faithful will stop speaking of ‘the moral fabric of the universe’.

And maybe, just maybe, if we become complete masters of all things, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent… then the mindless, monstrous fuckwits like Sally Kern will stop trying to bully gay people.

Other Comments by Modo

57. Comment #393087 by scottishgeologist on July 3, 2009 at 2:20 am

And just to add to the fun, over at the hideous Lifebite site www.lifebite.co.uk, there is a story about "Sodom being discovered"

http://www.lifebite.co.uk/index.php/home/detail/sodom_rediscovered/

As the article helpfully points out:

"The rediscovery of Sodom at a time when homosexuality has regained acceptance as a norm in Western culture may be seen by some as having a prophetic edge. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by fire because homosexual behaviour had become prolific in those cities (Genesis 19:5-7; 12-13) – giving rise to the term ‘sodomy’.

The Bible says, in Jude 7: “Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.”

Y'all gonna burn, ah tell yah.... yeehaaaa!

:-)
SG

Other Comments by scottishgeologist

58. Comment #393089 by epeeist on July 3, 2009 at 2:37 am

Comment #393087 by scottishgeologist:

http://www.lifebite.co.uk/index.php/home/detail/sodom_rediscovered/

Just dropped a note on there pointing out that Schliemann used Homer to discover Troy, but that this doesn't prove that Zeus exists. Let's see if they publish it.

Other Comments by epeeist

59. Comment #393090 by Steve Zara on July 3, 2009 at 2:41 am

Comment #393087 by scottishgeologist

That is dying for an Onion-style parody:

"And on Channel 4, the Time Team dig up the remains of an old village rumoured to be the long-lost 'Quick Shag'"

Other Comments by Steve Zara

60. Comment #393093 by epeeist on July 3, 2009 at 3:06 am

Comment #393090 by Steve Zara:

"And on Channel 4, the Time Team dig up the remains of an old village rumoured to be the long-lost 'Quick Shag'"

I understand that is buried underneath the hamlet just above Hebden Bridge called "Slack Bottom".

Other Comments by epeeist

61. Comment #393097 by scottishgeologist on July 3, 2009 at 3:39 am

Epeeist, Steve.

Seen these lists:

http://www.i-r-genius.com/rudeplaces.html

http://www.goole-on-the-web.org.uk/main.php£page=rudeplacenames

LOL!

:-)
SG

Other Comments by scottishgeologist

62. Comment #393105 by Roger Stanyard on July 3, 2009 at 5:08 am

scottishgeologist points out

Davids statements were bad enough, but the comments from a certain Daily Mail (yes I know...) journalist were just evil eg:

The hypocracy is truely astonishing. Of course nobody who works for the Daily Mail:

1. Is gay.
2. Commits adultary.
3. Has pre-marital sex.
4. Snorts exotic substances.
5. Blasphemes/swears.
6. Fails to attend church every Sunday.
7. Accepts the theory of evolution by natural selection.
8. Fiddles their expenses.

Other Comments by Roger Stanyard

63. Comment #393107 by Roger Stanyard on July 3, 2009 at 5:14 am

Baron comments

And the more I think about it, the weirder it becomes - people like Robertson claim that an omnipotent, universe-creating being cares about my partner's gender, and they know this because they have a direct link to it?

I've always assumed from what I was taught about the bible that Jesus was gay.

Can anyone provide any evidence to the contrary?

Heck, by his mid 30s, the man appears to have never had a girlfriend or wife and surrounded himself with a band of 12 who were all blokes.

Perhaps David Robertson might also want to explain why he and his church seem to not understand Christian charity towards others.

Other Comments by Roger Stanyard

64. Comment #393108 by hungarianelephant on July 3, 2009 at 5:24 am

56. Comment #393086 by Modo

I wonder if it is at all possible to chart the average world-wide moral zeitgeist for a particular moment in time, whilst concurrently calculating the average zeitgeist of the Christian faith community specifically (and other faiths as well perhaps as separate lines on the chart).

I imagine there would/might be a cross-over point in the distant past. On one day the faithful would have been ahead of the game, dragging the uneducated up into some semblance of half-decent behaviour, thus securing a legacy. The next day would be a draw of sorts. The day after that the ‘sheep’ begin to run with the idea that not hating actually feels quite nice, with the faithful crying “slow down, we can’t keep up… remember what we did for you… come BACK!”

It's hard to reconstruct, but the best guess seems to be that the whole notion of "gentle Jesus meek and mild" was an invention of the nineteenth century. Christianity seems to have spent most of its history (and Islam all of its) as the agitator and provocateur of intolerance. Which is hardly surprising when you consider that Jesus told people to break up their families. To the extent that it created peace, it was by means of order and oppression, a sort of pax romana.

One story that has always struck me was of an unmarried Irish couple. The woman had left her abusive husband and taken up living with another man who treated her rather better. This was during the Catholic theocracy, and there was no divorce. The local community knew their circumstances and accepted them fully. Right up to the point when a new priest arrived, found out about them and preached against them. At which point their former friends turned against them. Left to their own devices, it seems that most people are actually much more decent than when someone in authority tells them what their morality ought to be.

Which is probably why, in a supposedly homophobic and pious rural community, my friend's Uncle Donal and "Uncle" Sean were able to live together for thirty years without anybody bothering them.

Other Comments by hungarianelephant

65. Comment #393109 by Ivan The Not So Bad on July 3, 2009 at 5:36 am

Comment #393105 by Roger Stanyard

To continue the theme of hypocracy, the BBC news last night had a feature on the decriminalisation of homosexuality in India that featured a RC Church bishop saying that this would increase AIDS and paedophillia.

Coming from a condom-banning bunch of international child rapists, this has to take the biscuit for either outright lying or a certifiable lack of self-awareness.

As for the Daily Mail, for anyone who hasn't come across it already, you might like this fine attempt to expose and analyse it's nuttery:

http://www.angrymob.uponnothing.co.uk/

I particularly enjoyed the psychoanalysis of Richard Littlejohn.

Other Comments by Ivan The Not So Bad

66. Comment #393111 by PERSON on July 3, 2009 at 5:58 am

"Kern, best known for asserting that homosexuality is a greater threat than terrorism"
She's right about that. But only for the Fundie churches. They love a bit of terror to keep the flock in line. Terrorists? Perfect hate figures in which they can embody their concept of an implacable Enemy and have it widely accepted.

Homos on the other hand? Far more dangerous. Their hatred is not so accepted there.

And of course they identify the nation of the United States with the fundie churches. The Real Americans. The others are made impure by foreign influence (such as the US government) and book learning, and are to be given over to the ravages of evil and die.

That's what she meant when she said homosexuality is a greater threat to the US than terrorism.

She doesn't want to acknowledge that, though. So she's later made out that the number of people killed in the US by homosexuality ("over 100,000") is greater than the number killed by 9/11.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx7kvuVPk0g

Here's the original quote.

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/3/11/headlines#6

State Rep. Sally Kern: “Studies show that no society that has totally embraced homosexuality has lasted more than, you know, a few decades. So it’s the death knell of this country. I honestly think it’s the biggest threat our nation has, even more so than terrorism or Islam, which I think is a big threat… If you got cancer or something in your little toe, do you say, well, you know, I’m just going to forget about it because the rest of me is fine? It spreads. OK? And this stuff is deadly, and it’s spreading, and it will destroy our young people, it will destroy this nation.”

Though it does beg the question: which is more like a cancer? A gay or a religious person? Not that I'd advocate regarding people as cells. One of the body's methods of dealing with malfunctioning, potentially cancerous cells is apoptosis.

Other Comments by PERSON

67. Comment #393133 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on July 3, 2009 at 7:20 am

"it's spreading" : right Ms. Kern, like homosexuals recruit or something... the only thing spreading is tolerance, except apparently to bigoted shit-stains like yourself.

Other Comments by InfuriatedSciTeacher

68. Comment #393137 by CaptainMandate on July 3, 2009 at 7:48 am

it will destroy this nation

hahaha! obviously it won't but it would be funny if it did. USA, destroyed by gayness

as for the cancer analogy. if my little toe got cancer, i'd have it treated. if it turned gay, i dunno, maybe i'd paint it's little toenail. at very least I'd go to a gay club for a dance (it'd like that)

it's good she sees homosexuality as a greater threat than terrorism though. that will ensure that no one's in any doubt as to how twisted she is.

of course homosexuality doesn't spread any more than eye colour but I like the argument. I have no idea how many people i work with are gay. I know some who definitely are, some who definitely aren't but don't care enough to investigate further. but if i were to be told the number of homosexuals had doubled in the last year, i'd... well i dunno... i guess i still wouldn't know or care how many are gay!

of course if you want to assume that something that can spread is a form of cancer then fair enough. start with christianity. we don't need to make christians outlaws (after all, it's not a lifestyle choice. stupidity is something you're born with), just their practice of causing christianity to spread.

Other Comments by CaptainMandate

69. Comment #393139 by hungarianelephant on July 3, 2009 at 8:00 am

From the quote provided by PERSON:

Studies show that no society that has totally embraced homosexuality has lasted more than, you know, a few decades.

I call bollocks on this. Does anyone have evidence either way? Cartomancer is usually good for this sort of thing.

There's a conceivable argument that a society that matures to that extent is also likely to start wondering whether it's really a good thing to kill people just because they're foreigners, become squeamish about armed conflict and lose the ability to defend itself. But even if you establish this, it's a pretty weird conclusion to focus on sexuality. Unless you can establish a causal link, and not just common effects, it would be a waste of time singling out homosexuality.

Unless of course you have, ahmmm, personal reasons.

Other Comments by hungarianelephant

70. Comment #393142 by CaptainMandate on July 3, 2009 at 8:08 am

hungarian

I think it's telling that the word "studies" has been used without referring to which studies

I was always of the understanding that the ancient greeks were very enlightened in that respect. I'm sure the romans were as well (until they all turned, you know, a bit funny, oh hell i'll just come out and say it; christian)

In fact she's just talking utter arse-water. what societies only lasted a few decades£ wft is she on about£

I expect the only societies she's ever heard of are judo-christian ones anyway and i doubt any of them has ever "embraced" homosexuality

indeed the term "embraced" confuses me. again, like eye coulour. you don't "embrace" it, you just accept it as part of what people are like

this woman's a prick. studies have shown this

Other Comments by CaptainMandate

71. Comment #393143 by Steven Mading on July 3, 2009 at 8:29 am

From the letter:
Kern is entitled to her views, of course, just as the rest of us are. And while Kern and others hold that the Bible condemns homosexuality, many other equally spiritual Americans believe otherwise.

Actually many of us who don't like what Kern is saying do believe the Bible condemns homosexuality. Where we disagree is in whether or not we believe doing what the bible tells us to is a good moral standard. The bible does very strongly say that it is wrong for a man to lie with a man as he would with a woman. It ALSO says just as strongly that wearing a cotton-polyester blend shirt is wrong, eating shellfish is wrong, and so on.

Instead of the tactic of telling lies about what the bible says, with the goal of getting believers to stop following the bad instructions that are in it, people who support gay rights should use the more honest argument that automatically following whatever the bible says as the final arbitrator of right and wrong is *itself* an immoral thing to do. That mistake is the key problem here. The people who pretend the bible doesn't contain those instructions we consider immoral today are unwittingly laying landmines for future people who, upon hearing that the bible is the arbitrator of good and evil, actually might go and read the damn thing and do what it really says instead of what the moderate liberal theologians dishonestly claim it says.

All arguments about moral right and wrong should be geared towards what the effect of actions on PEOPLE today is. Looking to our ancient ancestor sheep herders as the final arbitrators is not the way to go.

Other Comments by Steven Mading

72. Comment #393149 by robotaholic on July 3, 2009 at 8:57 am

PROCLATAION FOR MORALITY
FROM CITIZENS WHO HAVE ACTUALLY READ THE BIBLE

We, the Literate and Reasonable People of the United States who have avoided or escaped the sort of childhood indoctrination that would lead a person to believe that what is done in private with his or her genitals may trigger God’s wrath in the form of tsunamis, terrorist attacks, and economic recession, invoking a morality based on reducing suffering, that the citizens of this country may be free from the enforcement of the brutal, sexist, homophobic and often silly morality of the Bible; to thwart Christians and their co-religionists as attempts are made to pass off dogma as universal morality and erode the separation of church and state; do establish this proclamation and call upon all those who have ever sassed their parents (Det 21:20-21), disobeyed their husbands (Eph 5:22), picked up sticks on a Saturday (Nmbrs 15: 32-36), or worn anything made of a cotton polyester blend (Lev 19:19) to join with us in protecting morality from Christians who attempt to infect it with their perception of what God told them is bad via the Bible as opposed to actual injustice and suffering.

WHEREAS, “…the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion…” (Treaty of Tripoli – Signed by President John Adams); and

WHEREAS, “The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg” (Thomas Jefferson); and

WHEREAS, “A government cannot be premised on the belief that all persons are created equal when it asserts that God prefers some” (U.S. Supreme Court Justice Harry A. Blackmun); and

WHEREAS, “...texts from the source we call Holy Scripture have been used in the past to defend the divine right of kings and to oppose the Magna Carta; to condemn Galileo and to assert that the sun does indeed rotate around the earth; to justify slavery, segregation and apartheid; to keep women from being educated, entering the professions, voting or being ordained; to justify war, to persecute and kill Jews; to condemn other world religions; and to continue the oppression and rejection of gay and lesbian people." (Bishop John Shelby Spong); and

WHEREAS, “Secularists have no desire to extol the Bible above its merits, nor to depreciate it below its deserts. We gladly admit that it contains some useful precepts; but these, as a rule, are intermixed with so many teachings of an injurious character that their beauty is often overshadowed and their utility annulled. Its coarse language in many places renders it unfit for general perusal, and destroys its value as a standard for every-day life.” (Charles Watts);

NOW THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that we, the reasonable citizens of this country, solemnly declare that a system of morality based solely on the Bible would most certainly be considered evil by today’s moral standards: and

BE IT RESOLVED that the HOPE to which we cling, that the laws and morals of these United States will not devolve to the point of Christian theocracy, rests upon our constitutional religious freedom, the separation of church and state; and a thorough reading of the Bible.

Other Comments by robotaholic

73. Comment #393151 by sunbeamforjesus on July 3, 2009 at 9:08 am

What is it with these xtian fucktards and homosexuality?I know their ancient comic says it's wrong but their ancient comic says lots of things are wrong.Think back to a few months ago when arch fucktard and super hypocrite Teg Haggard was caught paying to suck some guy off every month for three years.Did the fucktards point to him as a destroyer of civilisation? Did they hell,some oily pastor from his church came on the box to "It's a tragedy whats happened to this great and reverend man ?!'One suspects he paid his money but couldn't get his rocks off every time?
We can be re-assured that Ted's flock are praying for his 'RECOVERY' as the good pastor told us.
Sheer fucking hypocrisy!

Other Comments by sunbeamforjesus

74. Comment #393152 by j.mills on July 3, 2009 at 9:08 am

Ranked excellent, robotaholic.

Notable also that the likes of Kern never have the courage of their convictions: they cherry-pick even within a verse:

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. - Lev. 20:13

Yet nobody this side of Fred Phelps calls for homosexuals to be killed. Why not? Is that morality not appropriate to the modern age, whereas the first half of the verse still is? The Kerns of this world should be challenged to provide a coherent explanation of their mealy-mouthed position.

Other Comments by j.mills

75. Comment #393154 by Gregg Townsend on July 3, 2009 at 9:36 am

72. Comment #393149 by robotaholic

Where am I to sign?

Other Comments by Gregg Townsend

76. Comment #393155 by AllanW on July 3, 2009 at 9:37 am

Comment #393149 by robotaholic on July 3, 2009 at 8:57 am

Terrific stuff now spellcheck it and send it :)

Other Comments by AllanW

77. Comment #393157 by Steve Zara on July 3, 2009 at 9:37 am

Comment #393149 by robotaholic

Excellent!

Other Comments by Steve Zara

78. Comment #393166 by ewaldrep on July 3, 2009 at 10:54 am

I second that notion Gregg, where do I sign as well!

Other Comments by ewaldrep

79. Comment #393172 by MarshallEvans on July 3, 2009 at 11:50 am

Comment #393149 by robotaholic

Hold on let me get my pen as well!!

Other Comments by MarshallEvans

80. Comment #393173 by Metch on July 3, 2009 at 12:06 pm

J. mills nailed it.


These people need to be confronted by specific arguments that target their incoherent beliefs.

They need to be exposed, debunked, and laughed out of the public eye.

Other Comments by Metch

81. Comment #393176 by Border Collie on July 3, 2009 at 12:20 pm

Just another attention whore.

Other Comments by Border Collie

82. Comment #393178 by jamesnimmo on July 3, 2009 at 12:33 pm

Juicing the Fruits

by James Nimmo

(OKLAHOMA CITY) I'm sure the sham of appearing at the Capitol and giving the impression this is a legislative procedure is exactly what was intended when GOPer Sally Kern and Krew planned their morality proclamation ceremony on July 2 in Oklahoma City.

If she were interested in promoting only morality and not instead, introducing her personal religious restrictions, why isn't she using her own church, Olivett Baptist, as her backdrop?

As always with the mentally unbalanced words and actions are morphed into absurd definitions and shapes. Lies to support other lies are always invented, regardless of how holy the intent of the lies is supposed to be.

She speaks of divorce as contributing to national decline. How short her memory is for anything except bible verses.

Kern's patron saint, Ronald Reagan, was divorced, as is Newt Gingrich and Rumbaugh twice each. Sen. Vitter of LA likes diaper sex with paid escorts and Gov. Sandford of SC abandons his family and state duties to amorize in Argentina. Gov. Palin of AK can't teach her eldest daughter to say simple words like, "No".

When you don't set yourself up on a high soap box in the first place and then mistake it for a psychiatrist's office you don't have to fall so inevitably far when you come up short in your own life.

Kern should spend more time looking at the fruit falling close to her family tree ( http://tinyurl.com/krahr9 ) before she tries to juice the private lives of others.

Other Comments by jamesnimmo

83. Comment #393179 by Frankus1122 on July 3, 2009 at 12:37 pm

Good One robotaholic.

And j.mills.

When you try to nail down the slippery shifting morality of the Bible you get the answer to the question, "Well, where do you get your morality, if not from the Bible?"

It seems as though we make it up as we go along.
It is not completely arbitrary; it evolves within a social context. But there certainly is no eternal set of rules. Not a code written on parchment or carved in stone or set within our 'hearts'.
A least that's how it seems to me.

Other Comments by Frankus1122

84. Comment #393180 by Enlightenme.. on July 3, 2009 at 1:13 pm

I too will sign this 'PROCLATAION' from 'we, the literate'..

Robo

;)

Other Comments by Enlightenme..

85. Comment #393187 by jamiso on July 3, 2009 at 2:30 pm

47. Comment #393053 by cerebate

I noticed that... these people tend to be very concerned with reproductions (its so important to have lots of babies)... as if humans are in grave threat of underpopulation... Help Help there are only 6 billion of us left!

71. Comment #393143 by Steven Mading

Spot on, 100% agreement.

Other Comments by jamiso

86. Comment #393189 by jamiso on July 3, 2009 at 2:40 pm

23. Comment #393001 by Steve Zara

[quote]or nearly 14 billion years, the universe has been evolving. The first stars formed. They were huge stars, and after their brief lives they left behind vast black holes that were the cores of future galaxies. Around these nucleii of future galaxies the dark matter gathered, forming huge spheres that sucked in gas. Deep in the centres of these dark matter spheres vortices of photon-sensitive gas formed flat vortices that we see as the milky ways of the heavens.

Within one such milky way, the results of supernovas gathered to form a star and its planets, 4 billion years ago. Then, the planets started to form. Two planets collided and the result was our planet Earth, and it's Moon. And so, our home was born. We look back at the very beginning with sensitive radio telescopes that lets us see the radiation from the beginning - the cosmic microwave background.

But within all this, right from the start, even below the pre-inflation quantum vibrations of space that left patterns in the cosmic microwave background[/quote]

That kind of gave me a chubby.... I think I'm gay for cosmology

Other Comments by jamiso

87. Comment #393190 by Steve Zara on July 3, 2009 at 2:44 pm

Commment #393189 by jamiso

I'm just gay. It is simpler.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

88. Comment #393224 by Hellene on July 3, 2009 at 6:29 pm

Sarah Palin just quit as Governor of Alaska.
Perhaps we can get Rep. Sally Kern to wet rag out also.

Other Comments by Hellene

89. Comment #393226 by Frankus1122 on July 3, 2009 at 6:33 pm

Hellene, I think she may have quit to run in 2012. I have been watching video clips of her. I forgot how dumb she is. She is dumb enough to scare me.

Other Comments by Frankus1122

90. Comment #393238 by flibble on July 3, 2009 at 10:00 pm

There's one positive to cretins like this woman. They are a perfect example of the evils of religion. I'd been an "apatheist" all my life up until about 10 or 12 years ago. I was an atheist because it was just common sense, but I never thought about it - it just wasn't important. Then I got into a conversation with a woman from the mid-west on a business trip to the US, and she started coming out with this sort of bullshit. I'd never heard the like of it before. I hadn't realised that such wingnuts existed in the developed world before. That one conversation was the spark that lit my "militant atheism", and so I have complete confidence that this woman and her ilk can bring others out of their slumber too.

Other Comments by flibble

91. Comment #393240 by critica on July 3, 2009 at 10:39 pm

scottishgeologist

The 'serves you right for not being like me' mentality shines through clearly in these passages. What we are seeing in all of this is no more than fear of the other writ large and institutionalised. Shame on those who cannot see it for what it is - or worse, embrace it as part of their highest moral code.

Other Comments by critica

92. Comment #393244 by MarshallEvans on July 4, 2009 at 12:03 am

I found this video in my "favourites" on youtube. It's a different compilation from the one that BicycleRepairman posted - and has some even funnier (with a lot of cute people to Steven Zara) bits to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuDJmVkPYpw

I still get a kick out of watching it. It's like the ultimate "water off the ducks back" sentiment!!

Other Comments by MarshallEvans

93. Comment #393246 by scottishgeologist on July 4, 2009 at 12:22 am

critica: yes, I agree, fear and hatred shine through. And they are still keeping this particular pot boiling.

Last night, Scott Rennie, the gay minister was inducted to his new charge in Aberdeen. I am actually glad that he has managed it. I would rather he was using his obvious talents in a secular field, but whatever we think of religion (and in this case it is very much the liberal kind) the guy has been abused something hellish for simply being 1) gay and 2 ) honest about it.

The homophobes response can be seen here, dressed in apocalyptic "meltdown" style language:

http://www.christianstogether.net/Articles/157443/Christians_Together_in/Christian_Life/Current_News/The_Kirk_is.aspx

Sad...

SG

Other Comments by scottishgeologist

94. Comment #393248 by Rodger T on July 4, 2009 at 1:00 am

SG,L o L cliched metaphor overload,

Let no one be of any doubt that in spite of a 2-year moratorium on any further inductions of gay ministers, the genie is well and truly out of the bottle. The Rubicon has been crossed, the dam has been burst and the stable door has been thrown wide.

Other Comments by Rodger T

95. Comment #393249 by Vaal on July 4, 2009 at 1:03 am

What is it with Oklahoma?

Other Comments by Vaal

96. Comment #393250 by epeeist on July 4, 2009 at 1:07 am

Comment #393246 by scottishgeologist:

Sad...

I realise that you are sad because of the homophobia.

However I can't say that I am sad that the "The Kirk is imploding". The break down into small, impotent groups is quite encouraging where those groups are so intolerant and closed minded.

Other Comments by epeeist

97. Comment #393252 by PERSON on July 4, 2009 at 1:30 am

"96. Comment #393250 by epeeist on July 4, 2009 at 1:07 am
However I can't say that I am sad that the "The Kirk is imploding""

It may or may not be. There's a fair amount of mileage in saying "we are on the brink of destruction! we must work even harder!" At least 2000 years' worth. Admittedly at times it was true, but at others it wasn't.

Other Comments by PERSON

98. Comment #393253 by scottishgeologist on July 4, 2009 at 1:35 am

Epeeist

Yes, youre right there! The more the churches tear themselves apart the better - mind you, the history of presbyterianism generally (and in Scotland specifically) is one of split, union, schism etc etc.

Personally, I dont think it will "implode" the a bunch of ministers might leave to join up with Daveys lot (Davey would love that - it would increase his zone of infulence)

But the problem for a lot of these people is that they actually have some power and influence where they are . Were they to leave, they would have all sorts of problems

Its fascinating to watch, but both sad and infuriating that such levels of homophobia exist in what the Scottish Government is trying to push as a modern social democracy.

Of course, a lot of this stuff relates to church law rather than state law - if churches want to discriminate on the basis of orientation, then it appears that they CAN, since they claim it is a doctrinal matter.

Still makes them look retarded, backward and hate-filled.

By the way, and this is a total off topic aside, have you seen or heard of this bullshit:

http://www.christianstogether.net/Articles/157308/Christians_Together_in/Around_the_Region/Badenoch_and_Strathspey/Aviemore_outreach_meeting.aspx

And

http://www.aglimpseofeternity.org/

There is a whole conference worth of BS in those two links!

Cheers!!!!
:-)))
SG

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99. Comment #393254 by scottishgeologist on July 4, 2009 at 1:41 am

Roger T

Yes, I LOL'd as well when I say that list of cliches. Funny as f--- so it was.

One of the things I have noticed about these people ( and I mean the doom merchants, the apocalyptic "vision" types that "get" a "word" from the "lord") is the way that they love to exagerate - meoldrama and cliches are hugely important.

And of course, when the dust settles, when all is said and done, at close of play, when the chickens come home to roost (!!!) , the world keeps turning, life gors on, and their irrelevant posturing just look lame

'tards, the lot of them

:-)
SG

Other Comments by scottishgeologist

100. Comment #393257 by Rodger T on July 4, 2009 at 1:55 am

I`m assuming from this reaction that gay scotsmen are lining up in droves to become ordained ministers in the kirk?

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