Tuesday, February 6, 2007 | Reason : Commentary | print version

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Panel discussion on atheism where no atheists are included

CNN

Transcript:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0701/31/pzn.01.html

Part 1: Segment

Part 2: Panel

From:
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=152444327&blogID=226256376&MyToken=2fec6ddb-0907-4625-be62-b1b8d262d98e

Paula Zahn Now: Karen Hunter, Debbie Schlussel, Stephen A. Smith on Atheism

Just how pervasive is discrimination against atheists in America? Reliable studies consistently show that atheists are more despised than any other minority, but to what degree do these anti-atheist feelings translate into anti-atheist action? Since people don't know a person is an atheist unless the atheist reveals it, there's probably much less anti-atheist discrimination than there otherwise could be. Sometimes, though, it's possible to detect the rot of bigotry in little things: like a panel discussion on atheism where no atheists are included.

Send a note to CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5.html?11

More of Paula Zahn's quality journalism can be found here:
CNN still fixated on Apocalypse predictors

Posted: Tuesday, February 6, 2007 | Permalink

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51. Comment #20929 by jesus_christ_himself on February 7, 2007 at 3:30 am

The ESPN Analysist was the smartest person on the panel

Other Comments by jesus_christ_himself

52. Comment #20941 by Johan on February 7, 2007 at 4:04 am

Is it due to this site only being in English, and all things posted are limited to the English language, but would such horrible journalism exist in Europe? I have NEVER seen anything this biased and one-sided be it in Sweden, France or Gremany.

Americans (sorry fellow atheist, great, Americans for the gross generalization) need to fucking get a grip on how to do journalism!!!

Other Comments by Johan

53. Comment #20944 by heinitz on February 7, 2007 at 4:20 am

Posting a comment at CNN Feedback is very telling. Comments will not be accepted unless you check a little box indicating your response is either "positive" or "negative". Shades of grey are not allowed. This attitude seems to extend in front of the camera as well.

Other Comments by heinitz

54. Comment #20945 by CDG on February 7, 2007 at 4:22 am

I just emailed Karen Hunter (thanks for the address Benjdm)

In short I told her Atheists "never took away prayer in school" just like African Americans never took away slavery. They were both found to be unconstitutional! And thank goodness...

Other Comments by CDG

55. Comment #20953 by linck on February 7, 2007 at 5:15 am

There are actually 21 Pulitzer prizes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulitzer_prize

Inclubing poetry, fiction, public service and beat reporting.

I am sure she qualifies for throughly beating on atheists in biased reports.
Lets nominated her again!

Other Comments by linck

56. Comment #20957 by glittergulch on February 7, 2007 at 5:51 am

Sent this to CNN:

If you seriously want to discuss atheism and the appropriateness of religion in the modern world you're going to have to actually have a rational atheist on the channel. I've seen several shows on CNN that purport to attack the issues of religion from "every" angle but who never even mention the possibility that religion is hogwash. I know that the current cultural climate is such that rejecting religion is tantamount to treason but the best-selling books by Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris prove that people out there are looking for someone who sees past religion. Just look at this Canadian program: http://www.cbc.ca/bigpicture/evil.html

They screened Richard Dawkins documentary "The Root of All Evil?" and then held a town hall including atheists and theists. I can just see Anderson Cooper hosting a similar event. It would be amazing! Click on the link for the Town Hall discussion on that site: They've included the entire thing. It's illuminating and it's absolutely crucial for America to get a similar program. How come I have to watch C-SPAN and The Colbert Report to see Dawkins and Harris taken seriously? Where is CNN?

Other Comments by glittergulch

57. Comment #20959 by sankekorafi on February 7, 2007 at 5:58 am

Luckily, somehow, of the people I know who follow the news at all about half of them get it exclusively from internet sources (usually multiple) and Comedy Central. The Daily Show and The Colbert Report both treat atheists the same way they treat the religious. And that's fine with me.

This whole CNN thing is... gross.

Did someone say they had a response from someone? What did they say?

Other Comments by sankekorafi

58. Comment #20963 by LookToWindward on February 7, 2007 at 6:09 am

That was despicable and offensive. But let's be careful what we complain about here. We do not have a right, as a group or as individuals, to be free from being offended. The piece was deplorable because it was bad journalism, plain and simple.

Other Comments by LookToWindward

59. Comment #20964 by Simon Quick on February 7, 2007 at 6:11 am

Comment sent to CNN Ms Zahn Thanks to Joe OD for link.

Dear Ms Zahn

With the exception of Smith the participants in the debate following 'Beliefs under attack' were incredulous mindnumbing stereotypical Americans who did nothing to better their own, or the image of CNN and the US in the world. Can I be so bold as to suggest a follow up programme entitled 'the fine art of golf' and debate the subject without any golfers. Sounds nonsensical? Well that is this programme's format.
This programme was yet another demonstration that bigotry is fine in the name of a god but not in the name of no god.
Do yourself CNN's and America's image a favour think balanced, open and factually accurate; more like Smith please

Yours sincerely
Simon Quick

Other Comments by Simon Quick

60. Comment #20967 by Skeptic Jim on February 7, 2007 at 6:18 am

Wow talk about crap journalism.

Christians in the USA are always having a big cry about prayer being 'removed' from public schools. The fact is it was never removed. If any individual students want to pray at school they have every right to. Prayer was never removed. What was removed is the act of forcing students to pray as apart of something organised by the school.

What an incredibly obnoxious bunch of bigotted pseudo-intellectuals.

Other Comments by Skeptic Jim

61. Comment #20970 by CDG on February 7, 2007 at 6:25 am

KAREN HUNTER RESPONDS TO AN EMAIL I SENT HER. HERE IS HER RESPONSE TO MY EMAIL BELOW...

For the record, to compare atheism, again a choice, to someone who is
black is definitely off.
Let's put this to rest. I hate no one. you have the right to believe or
not believe anything you want. Just don't compare your plight to some
sort of civil rights issue. It's not. You choose to be an atheist. I
didn't choose to be black. I have never seen a sign that read:
Christians Only. You never had to sit at the back of the bus because
you're an atheist and I cannot recall a single atheist being hung from
a tree or drag from behind a truck until his limbs fell or shot at 50
times just because he was an atheist. So while you are in the minority
in thus Judeo-Christian society, you are far from persecuted.

-----Original Message-----
From: CDG
To: professorhunter@aol.com
Sent: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 7:26 AM
Subject: CNN Panel Discussion

Dear Ms. Hunter,

I feel obligated to tell you how ignorant and uniformed you came off
in the panel discussion on Atheism on the Paula Zahn program.� I would
like you to substitute other words in place of Atheists when you say" I
think they need to shut up".� � Do "muslims" need to shut up? Or Jews?
How about "African Americans"?� No?� So why Atheists?�

And most importantly, Atheist never "took away prayer in school", just
like African Americans never took away slavery.� Both were
unconstitutional and were found to be so by the US Supreme Court.�

Please try and think things through more thoroughly next time.� You
and the viewers will be better off.

Thank you for your time.

Chris

Other Comments by CDG

62. Comment #20971 by melisande on February 7, 2007 at 6:27 am

Thank you for including "where no atheists are included" so I can just not even waste my time on this.

Other Comments by melisande

63. Comment #20972 by CDG on February 7, 2007 at 6:31 am

KAREN HUNTER RESPONSE # 2: HERE IS ANTOHER ONE THAT CAME RIGHT AFTER THE FIRST ONE. MY REPLY IS BELOW.

On Wed Feb 7 7:49 , professorhunter@aol.com sent:

Soundbite television does not give anyone an opportunity to fully
express their views. I hate no one, I believe people have the right to
believe or not believe anything they want. Just don't impose your views
on me. I want prayer in school. If you don't want to pray, don't pray.
you won't be locked up for not praying, nor should you be vilified or
bothered. That's your right. But if I want to pray with my students, I
can be fired.

You chose to be an atheist. You weren't born that way. It's a belief
system and no one has to know unless you walk around with a sign or
throw in people's faces. Live and let live. Do what you want. But if I
believe that this society lacks morality and I believe that the kids in
my neighborhood would be better served by having a little of that in
their lives, please don't go to the Supreme Court to ensure that they
don't. It doesn't impact on your ability to not believe on iota, does
it?

Thanks for the exchange...

Karen

MY REPLY:

Hi. Me again. Just wanted to give a different view for you to consider on school prayer.

- I am not imposing my views on you, the constitution is through the edict of the Supreme Court. Are you going to also pray with your muslim students, jewish, hindu?

- I was no more born an Atheist as you were no more born a Christian. You were indoctrinated with Christian beliefs. If you were born in India you would have been indoctrinated as most likely a Hindu, in Iran a Shiate Muslim, in Saudi Arabia a Sunni Muslim and so on. I just recognize this fact and many others based on reason and science that allowed me to make an informed decision.

- And if you believe in our constitution you should not be afraid of any issue going before the Supreme Court. I have "faith" they will make the right decisions...

Thanks again.

Chris

Other Comments by CDG

64. Comment #20975 by CDG on February 7, 2007 at 6:44 am

KAREN HUNTER THOUGHT IT WAS WRONG FOR ME TO BRING SLAVERY IN AS A COMPARISON ABOUT ISSUES OF CONSTITUTIONALITY. HERE IS MY EMAIL RESPONSE BACK TO HER...

I am white. But I was raised by a Black woman since I was 9. I probably have as many Black relatives as you, inlcuding brothers and sisters.

Let just say that Bigotry is a choice. And whether its against Atheists or African Americans, its wrong.

Thanks fo the response and have a great day!!!

Chris

Other Comments by CDG

65. Comment #20976 by CDG on February 7, 2007 at 6:44 am

66. Comment #20979 by CDG on February 7, 2007 at 7:32 am

HERE IS ANOTHER ONE FROM KAREN HUNTER

On Wed Feb 7 8:31 , professorhunter@aol.com sent:

You're still white and will never know what it feels like being black.
You can only sympathize, you cannot empathize. And that you still
insist to compare the two underscores my point.

Please, tell me how was I a bigot on Paula Zahn? and how was it similar
to the bigotry displayed in this country against blacks?

MY RESPONSE:
Hi.

Answer to question #1: Definition of Bigotry according to Websters is "Stubborn or complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from ones own" When you stated Atheist should "just shut up" I think you qualified.

Answer to question #2: Bigotry against Blacks was allowed to perpetuate because people who spoke out against it were in the minority at certain times. If they listened to the just shut up crowd who knows how many more African American would have been persecuted and/or killed...

Chris

Other Comments by CDG

67. Comment #20981 by godisanidiot on February 7, 2007 at 7:36 am

What the * , the woman on the left, can you be any more intolerant?

Other Comments by godisanidiot

68. Comment #20983 by godisanidiot on February 7, 2007 at 7:40 am

This was a shocking example of how it is to be an atheist in some part of US.

Other Comments by godisanidiot

69. Comment #20987 by ksskidude on February 7, 2007 at 7:46 am

My email to professorhunter@aol.com

Karen,

After watching your unintelligent rant on Paula Zahn I felt the need to email you. The first word that comes to mind is bigot and then intolerant. One would think that a so-called educated woman would understand that in a country where intolerance has been a staple, she would not tolerate it. How can you tell someone of a different view point to shut up? You were very lucky that CNN is as bigoted as you are, and had no atheistic viewpoint. If they had, your beliefs would have been shown to be childish, superstitious and delusional. The simple fact that you believe in something for which there is absolutely no empirical evidence is an indicator of your intelligence. Which you displayed so proudly. Karen can you prove your God exists? Are you telling the nation that the only reason people are moral is because they believe in God? If so that is ridiculous, and more of an indicator of your lack of intelligence. I am just appalled at your behavior!

Joe

Other Comments by ksskidude

70. Comment #20990 by godisanidiot on February 7, 2007 at 7:54 am

That last part form the woman on the right, can you be any more ignorant and (sorry to say) downright stupid?
"Let's look at Europe, where there are more atheists and where they've lost god, where the church is not that strong. Europe is becoming islamist, it's fast falling and intolerance is increasing. That's the one reason why America has not become like Europe, because we have strong christians and because atheists (in America) are not strong"

Other Comments by godisanidiot

71. Comment #21000 by glittergulch on February 7, 2007 at 8:34 am

That woman on the right needs to have her ethnicity as a Jew revoked. She's a disgrace to just about everyone.

Other Comments by glittergulch

72. Comment #21002 by Kingasaurus on February 7, 2007 at 8:39 am

Someone needs to tell Karen Hunter that freedom of thought and speech is just as important as racial equality. The fact that one "chooses" religious belief and doesn't choose skin color is a completely irrelevant comment and is a distinction that is completely meaningless in the context of this discussion.

The fact that you can change your mind about your religion and not your race DOESN'T MATTER. The principles of freedom and being treated fairly by the society at large are the same in both cases.

The irony is that it wasn't that long ago that a black woman couldn't be elected dog catcher. The fact that an honest atheist still can't be elected in America seems not to bother her one bit, and she can't see the parallels between the two situations. The differences between blacks and atheists in the context of what they are/were fighting for are meaningless details, but that's what she focuses on because the opinions of atheists are so incredibly foreign to her way of thinking.

Principles should transcend any particular difference of opinion you have with someone else. If you can't do that, look in the mirror.

Other Comments by Kingasaurus

73. Comment #21003 by wednesdayguevara on February 7, 2007 at 8:42 am

I wrote this to CNN:
"I'm writing to comment about your recent panel discussion on "discrimination against atheists". Not only did your panelists know absolutely nothing about atheism, but clearly they were also ignorant of American history. America is no more a Christian nation than it is a Muslim nation or a Jain nation. It is a secular nation. Separation of church and state is written right there in the Constitution.

Another point is, when a Pulitzer prizewinner resorts to "They all just need to shut up," it becomes glaringly obvious that she hasn't an intellectual leg to stand on. Imagine the reaction if she were talking about black people or homosexuals.

Where was the atheist representative for this panel? This so-called "debate" was one-sided and hateful, and it absolutely proves the point that it is trying to discredit. It's all right to spew hatred and bigotry if it's against those pesky non-believers. Disgusting."

Hopefully enough people will write in about this that CNN will do another discussion, this time including an atheist, so that a real debate can be held, and not yet another game of "Let's Bash The Infidels".

Other Comments by wednesdayguevara

74. Comment #21017 by Riley on February 7, 2007 at 9:53 am

Here's the letter I wrote to CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5.html?11

What shotty and irresponsible work it is to not include an articulate atheist in a discussion dedicated to the topic of 'Atheism'. Worse, your panel was conducted as no less than an atheist hate-mongering, shouting match featuring Karen Hunter and Debbie Schlussel demanding angerily that atheists need to 'shut up!'. Such a program will no doubt incite more intolerance and biggotry - if not outright violence against atheists.

In the interest of mitigating your contribution to the spread of bigotry, intolerance and misunderstanding, please invite an articulate atheist (such as Sam Harris) onto your show to respond.

As a matter of fair treatment, imagine what your reaction would be if it were American Jews being told they needed to "shut up!" on your program? and yet American atheists suffer at least as much unfair treatment and threat (i.e. can a known atheist in America even pretend to run for the office of President?) and outnumber American Jews by the millions. A direct interaction between Sam Harris and Karen Hunter and/or Debbie Schlussel would be ideal - and no doubt generate great viewer interest.

-------------------------------
-------------------------------
p.s.: 'Are atheists too militant?' Do you have an example of atheists being militant at all? The peaceful, civil action taken by Michael Newdow is by definition not "militant". Unless you would also describe Martin Luther King as 'militant', then you are not being consistant.

I'm so shocked and disgusted by what I just viewed.

I will say this for Hunter (the woman on the left); she is right to say that discrimination against atheists is a difffernt animal than discriminated against 'blacks'. Not because atheism is a choice (it's not - any more than not believing in Santa Claus is choice - I just can't help it), but because being 'black' is not something you can hide.

--

Other Comments by Riley

75. Comment #21025 by happinessiseasy on February 7, 2007 at 10:35 am

I sent them an email. That is so horrible. This is what I wrote:

"Your show that aired on January 31st (Paula Zahn Now: Karen Hunter, Debbie Schlussel, Stephen A. Smith on Atheism, transcript at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0701/31/pzn.01.html) had a panel on atheism where there was not a single atheist involved! This is horribly irresponsible journalism and reflects poorly on both the network and atheists. It would be nice in the future if your panelists were more fairly balanced in regard to the material they are discussing."

Other Comments by happinessiseasy

76. Comment #21034 by mattjuan on February 7, 2007 at 11:03 am

Thanks Joe_OD, I`ve sent a comment to the ccn feedback link. I agree with simplicio, I think that as many people as possible should protest against this kind of thing. It pains me to think that like-minded people across the pond should be treated in such a manner.

Other Comments by mattjuan

77. Comment #21037 by Kingasaurus on February 7, 2007 at 11:12 am

I'm less offended by CNN setting this up than I am simply by the opinions of the panelists. Paula Zahn's program introduces several different issues, and then their selected panelists give their opinion of each. This was not a program specifically about atheism, so I'm not shocked there wasn't a non-believer there for balance.

The bigoted opinions that were voiced are what should be raising peoples' ire, not CNN's choice of panelists. Again, they were commenting on several different topical issues, and this was only one of them. Taking positives out of it, it does highlight the very hostile attitudes some religious people have about non-believers, even people who would consider themselves mainstream in other contexts. Maybe it will wake some people up. It proves the point of why many atheists feel marginalized in America, and therefore their numbers probably underreported.

The tenor of the question was "What's the problem with these atheists?" and the discussion subsquently proved that the "problem" lies elsewhere.

Other Comments by Kingasaurus

78. Comment #21042 by Godless Sodomite on February 7, 2007 at 11:28 am

I'm not usually one to write letters to television programs, but the commentary by the panelists infuriated me. Here's my contribution to the letters of complaint to CNN:

What a lousy, but telling, segment about atheist Americans on the January 31st edition of Paula Zahn Now! Lousy because of the bigotry espoused by the all-theist panel; telling because they exemplified the exact same attitudes that the story highlighted. The panel seems to have absolutely no sense of irony.

We are a secular nation with a secular Constitution, not a Christian nation as was claimed by the panel. Our secular nation happens to have a lot of Christians in it, but the composition does not mean we are a Christian nation, which has a completely different connotation. The Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, which by implication necessarily means freedom from religion. You cannot be free to practice whatever religion you choose without being free of all competing dogma. As an atheist I'm just free from one more religion than the Jews or Catholics are. While it may be true that only about three percent of the population are self-admitted atheists, the percentage of "non-religious" Americans is 14%-16%. Whatever their actual beliefs, that 14% of the population are certainly guaranteed freedom of religion by the Constitution, which for atheists means that we're free from all the religions that exist.

The slogan of "In God We Trust" on money and the "Under God" phrase in the Pledge of Allegiance are demonstrably untrue; to keep the phrases means that we, as a country, are willful liars. I'm an American and I trust in no gods and I'm certainly not under any god (whatever "under god" may happen to mean in the first place). Those who fight to keep the American sloganeering and cling to our tribal myths certainly know this, so are therefore lying when they insist that we trust in this god we are under. It's the human equivalent of animals marking their territory; a message to outsiders that this land is "our land"�"our" defined in the most narrow sense, which by definition would exclude me.

The invitation to sit down and shut up is most troubling. If someone in this day and age were to suggest that "uppity Negroes" sit down and shut up they wouldn't have a television job by the time the show was over--and rightly so. But say the same exact thing about atheists and nobody bats an eye.

I understand it may be frustrating to theists to have their assumed privilege challenged, but having an imaginary friend doesn't give them any more intrinsic cause for respect than anyone else. And the way the religious communities are lording it over atheists, I'd say they're entitled to a great deal less respect--they've certainly earned my disdain. The panel for the segment did absolutely nothing to disabuse me of the notion that theists, no matter how moderate their theology, are irrational and expect everyone not to challenge their pet superstitions. Perhaps if their superstitions were not so transparently false, they wouldn't feel threatened so much when their faith is challenged.

It's too bad that CNN didn't anticipate this prevailing attitude and ensure a more balanced panel�-unless the way the segment turned out was entirely intentional, which I can't discount even granting benefit of the doubt. Instead we got the same old bigotry that raises its head whenever atheists are brought into public discussion. It's completely unsurprising that theists would disagree with atheists on fundamental questions�-that wasn't my problem with the segment. I'm offended by the "sit down and shut up" attitude. I concede there was a half-hearted apologetic that we're entitled to speak our piece, but I get the impression it means we have the right to complain but have no cause to expect remediation for being run out of our homes if we're so distasteful as to tell the truth about our lives in public. The message I get from the segment is: "We'll put up with you so long as you operate within my theistic comfort level." As if I need look to them to grant dispensation to live my life fully and honestly. If religious people are going to utilize their faith in public discourse, they can't get bent out of shape when their sacred cows are slaughtered. By all means, let's have public discourse; but don't cry foul when an argument is demonstrated to be false, and don't run me out of town when it becomes perfectly clear that I'm not going to be kneeling before any of your imagined gods any time soon.

Other Comments by Godless Sodomite

79. Comment #21048 by travismc on February 7, 2007 at 12:07 pm

It seems she recieved a Pulitzer as a member of the editorial board of the New York Daily News. They won for a series of editorials campaigning to save the Apollo Theater in Harlem, New York City.

Other Comments by travismc

80. Comment #21054 by Riley on February 7, 2007 at 12:26 pm

My letter to Karen Hunter:

Ms. Hunter,

I can't tell you how disappointed I am to witness you contribute substantially to a 'discussion' that amounted to little more than hate-mongering highlighted by you and Debbie Schlussel repeatedly demanding that atheists need to 'shut up!'. Despite your words and demeanor, I don't think you're a hopeless bigot and as such maybe my effort to explain a little about atheism wont be wasted.

Atheism is not a choice, any more so than your own (I assume) non-belief in Poseidon and Unicorns is a choice; we are simply not compelled by any reason to believe in these things, and so we cannot. I can't help it. Religious ritual practices however, are a choice - but even the freedom of choice to participate or not to participate in a particular ritual practice deserves protection.

Secularists (which include both Christians and atheists) struggle to maintain the constitutionally protected rights of all people to be free to practice as they choose without government interference supporting or hindering any practice. Your choice to participate (or not participate) in rituals related to your own belief-system are your own business. If your children want to pray in school or practice any other ritual there, they are free to do so, but it is a wholly different matter to have a teacher such as yourself officially instructing a child in a particular kind of ritual and/or faith-based belief system and/or political party - it's not your job. I sincerely hope that you can see the difference. I would no more want a teacher telling your child that Jesus is not Christ, than I want a teacher telling my child that he is.

Also, as I think you guessed, atheists are a demographic, not an organization. We are not united by a belief any more so than people who do not believe in fortune-telling astrology are united by a belief, but that does not mean that I believe, as you so dramatically stated: "Nothing". I and my family are as moral (and as prone to misconduct) as any other family. Please stop promoting the bigoted idea that my children are less moral than other children (because my children do not pray).

In the interest of mitigating the additional spread of bigotry and misunderstanding, I hope you'll be more thoughtful with your comments in the future.

sincerely,

--

Other Comments by Riley

81. Comment #21057 by seals on February 7, 2007 at 12:41 pm

No need to get knickers in a twist about this IMO ... Atheism being a minimalist philosophy, will always be less attractive to the kind of - well, the word that springs to mind may not be allowed - seen here (the guy was not so bad, he supported free speech). People like to shout about their faith/belief, not lack of it, and if you "believe there is no god", that makes atheism into a belief, which atheists claim not to be?

I think I would actually put up and shut up, if I lived there. I would not care if the cents and dollars have in god we trust on them. They don't say which god, anyhow. Likewise one nation under god - but which god? who cares? It sounds grand, but is totally meaningless. It's just a quaint thing about america, and there's a lot worse going on in the whole world to worry about. I lived there for a while; I was asked if i minded saying the pledge before class, being british, but i didn't mind because it was totally meaningless to me. *shrug*

Other Comments by seals

82. Comment #21059 by IPV4 on February 7, 2007 at 12:48 pm

People,
Here is a prime reason why we need to stick together and support each other in any way possible. This woman had a Pulitzer Prize (which I thought was a joke, until I goggled her) and her best argument was to say that we should SHUT UP! This is unreal, this group sounded like a bunch of fourth graders arguing over a topic that they know nothing about. They just can't stand for their religion to be scrutinized. It was very clear that Karen Hunter was extremely angry.

Other Comments by IPV4

83. Comment #21060 by Quine on February 7, 2007 at 1:08 pm

I sent this to CNN:

Your recent panel attacking the non religious was one sided and almost blatantly hateful. Our numbers are much higher than you think because most of us do not reveal to our friends and families (or poll takers) that the Emperor Has No Clothes. We do not want to hurt the feelings of loved ones who are bound by superstition to grieve that we are going to be tormented for all eternity. Also, as shown by the unfortunate family in your video, many religious people have the idea that it is okay for them to carry out their deity's wrath on us here and now.

Think about it this way: You move to a city that has two major ball teams with hyper fans who constantly fight each other. If you make the mistake of saying that you don't like sports, they will turn from their own fight and beat you up.

Other Comments by Quine

84. Comment #21062 by Vince Di Placido on February 7, 2007 at 1:15 pm

I found that clip infuriating!!! We all know about this defensive wall built up around religious beliefs & the disproportionate respect it demands but there is absolutely none of this respect given to someones NON belief! There isn't even the slightest piece of respect shown to someones NON belief that for all the religous people know could cause just as much disrepect & insult as attacking someone who belives, but they just don't get that at all.
By the way everybody congrats on fantastic Correspondence with CNN & the panel.

Other Comments by Vince Di Placido

85. Comment #21063 by CruciFiction on February 7, 2007 at 1:19 pm

Many of us who emailed complaints about this program have received this unassociated reply from CNN:

=================================================
Dear I-Reporter,

On behalf of CNN, please accept our sincere thanks for your I-Report submission during our memorial coverage of the tragic death of Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin. Thanks to the many submissions from our viewers, our coverage carried the personal touch that came from his vast and personal outreach to his many fans. Our programming effort was a huge success, and you are part of the reason for that.

Again, we sincerely thank you and hope you will continue to send relevant submissions to us at http://www.cnn.com/exchange/ireports/topics/

Best wishes,

CNN Public Information
=================================================

So what's up with that?!?

Other Comments by CruciFiction

86. Comment #21066 by JJoe on February 7, 2007 at 1:22 pm

That was a pretty despicable display of 'journalism' and a disgraceful use of public airwaves. The 'panelists' grasp of the situation had all the complexity of grade schoolers. It reminds me why I gave up watching the cable news channels. I don't regret it.

BTW, nice letter Riley. I'd be surprised if we get a retraction from Ms. Hunter. I bet she's really on the defensive now.

Other Comments by JJoe

87. Comment #21069 by neander on February 7, 2007 at 1:31 pm

Nothing like watching bigots in action is there?
The Pullitzer Prize committee must do doing some real investigating now as to how a ghost writer scooped the prize!

Other Comments by neander

88. Comment #21070 by Grandt on February 7, 2007 at 1:31 pm

Wow

How someone can be that stupid and still be able to walk on two legs is beyond me.

Personally I think they left the evolutionary ladder quite a few steps ago.

Other Comments by Grandt

89. Comment #21071 by Grandt on February 7, 2007 at 1:35 pm

CDG, Maybe you should replace black with jew in your next comparisons, after all if Karen uses the "I didn't choose to be black" angle, she will have some trouble with explaining the argument if it's the jewish people that is being used that way, after all being jewish IS (to an extend) a choice.

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90. Comment #21072 by sankekorafi on February 7, 2007 at 1:37 pm

CruciFiction,

I got that too... and I answered it by saying I hope they still read my message and that I felt it was important that they read it.... who knows though.

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91. Comment #21076 by I'mNoCicero on February 7, 2007 at 2:04 pm

"CNN, the most trusted name in news!"

Yup, I can now trust CNN to to take Fox's table-scraps.

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92. Comment #21078 by sankekorafi on February 7, 2007 at 2:10 pm

The homepage now reads that Richard Dawkins is actually going on Paula Zahn TOMORROW!

I think we made our point loudly enough folks. Thank you Richard Dawkins!!!

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93. Comment #21081 by John the Atheist on February 7, 2007 at 2:17 pm

"I didn't choose to be black" is an irrelevant argument. I didn't choose to be atheist either, I was born atheist like every other human being on this planet. They are the ones that choose to believe in imaginary beings, not us.

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94. Comment #21083 by Darwin's Beagle on February 7, 2007 at 2:18 pm

With a little effort I found out that Ms. Hunter won the Pulitzer Prize in 1999. She was a member of an editorial board of the Daily News in NYC that won it. They won it for a successful campaign to save the Apollo Theater in Harlem.

She may very well have a good sense of Black History, but all she sees when it comes to atheism is crap. I think that may be because when it comes to atheism she has her head up her ass.

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95. Comment #21087 by CDG on February 7, 2007 at 2:36 pm

Seals:

As an American I would like to be afforded the opportunity to recite the Pledge of Allegiance with my children because I am patriotic (overall). But I can't be forced to say the words "under one god" because I am not. Every other line in the Pledge is agreeable to everyone but that one. And it makes a mockery of the next line after "Indivisible"?!!! Dividing us is exactly what it is doing...

Give an inch, they take a mile...

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96. Comment #21088 by Graham on February 7, 2007 at 2:38 pm

Holy crap!! Is this for real? I thought CNN was the liberal channel compared to Fox? I doubted whether prejudice against atheists could really be put in the same category as prejudice against gays or blacks...I doubt no longer. This is truly the worst case of public biggotry sanctioned by the US national media that I have ever been unfortunate enough to see. Shame on you CNN.

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97. Comment #21093 by godma on February 7, 2007 at 2:43 pm

Debbie Schlussel responds to all the e-mail she's been getting on her blog.
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2007/02/when_atheists_a.html

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98. Comment #21095 by BaronOchs on February 7, 2007 at 2:46 pm

I agree with Richard Dawkins that the fact of Karen Hunter having a Pulitzer Prize is shocking.

It states here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Hunter

that she only won it as part of a team of journalists which redeems the prize a little, They wouldn't award it to her as an individual I am sure.

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99. Comment #21098 by CDG on February 7, 2007 at 2:52 pm

RICHARD!!! I think you may be reading this board so I wanted to say thank you for all you do. You are making a huge difference in mobilizing people and giving them the confidence needed to make a difference.

If I may? Please do not buy into the "Make Nice" assults you have had to endure. Its just that your positions are too much for them to overcome and you make them look at themselves too deeply- and it scares them, so they have to go about telling you your being impolite. Keep fighting the good fight! And thanks again.

Chris

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100. Comment #21102 by Bremas on February 7, 2007 at 2:59 pm

Just sent Ms. Hunter this email:

Ms. Hunter, I am also an ardent proponent of school prayer and believe that all school children should be taught the proper way to pray to the creator, The Flying Spaghetti Monster.

For more information as to how to support our mutually beneficial cause please visit the following link.

http://www.venganza.org/

RAmen

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