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Monday, January 28, 2008 | Reason : Wingnut News | print version Print | Comments

Document 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

by Wold Net Daily

Thanks to Carl H. Silverman for the link.

Reposted from:
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59905

irrational atheistEditor's note: WorldNetDaily exclusive columnist Vox Day's new book, "The Irrational Atheist," scores a direct hit on atheism's most well-known practitioners. Using reason, science and historical documentation – not theology – Day argues the atheists into an inescapable corner.

WorldNetDaily Editor Joseph Farah recently interviewed Day about the new book, which is available at WND's online store.


Joseph Farah: The title of "The Irrational Atheist" refers to the Unholy Trinity of Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens, while Dawkins.Net is advertising the Four Horsemen of Atheism, which includes Daniel Dennett. Given that you wrote a chapter about Dennett, why didn't you include him in with the other three?

Vox Day: Originally, I intended to do just that. But after reading four of his books, it became quite clear that for all his atheism, Dennett really doesn't deserve to be lumped in with the other three. Despite his occasional problems with logic, Dennett is a respectable intellectual. He is seriously interested in the scientific questions, and he is very willing to ask hard questions about his own assumptions and core beliefs too. This is totally different than Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens, who are entirely occupied with making groundless assertions when they aren't busy drawing errant conclusions from incorrect data.

Farah: Why have we seen this explosion of atheist titles?

Day: It's a bit strange because the so-called New Atheists are really not new at all. There is very little that Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens say that was not already said by Jean Meslier prior to his death in 1729. If Sam Harris didn't talk so much about Islam and make so many egregious errors, you'd think that he was Bertrand Russell's parrot. I suspect the reason is related to the current state of physics and the increasing uncertainty scientists feel about the universe based on the very, very low probability that the universe randomly happened to turn out the way it is now observed to be. Atheists have felt that science was on their side ever since the Enlightenment, and now they see it slipping away from them. So, this recent explosion of atheist books is not a sign of strength; it's a sign of desperation.

Farah: Are atheists becoming more militant? Extreme? Why?

Day: The outspoken ones are certainly becoming more desperate and shrill. Part of this is because they've got such terrible front-men. They've got these spokesmen who are demonstrably incapable of making a sober and rational case for atheism, so they have to make up for it by setting off rhetorical fireworks and making outlandish statements – for example, Dawkins's stupid assertion that a religious upbringing is worse than sexual child abuse. If I were an atheist, I'd be deeply embarrassed to have these clowns as the public face of my religious identification. I think the end result will be more atheists identifying themselves as agnostics, which is a much more reasonable perspective.

Farah: What are the consequences of widespread atheism?

Day: There are none, because atheism will never be a widespread phenomenon. Like socialism, it's a parasitic phenomenon that can't survive on its own. As Chesterton pointed out long ago, atheism rapidly mutates into paganism and diverse forms of spiritual absurdity. And we're already seeing signs that the post-Christian West is returning to paganism; it's not transforming into some sort of shiny, super-rational, post-superstitious science fiction society.

Farah: Why do you refer to Richard Dawkins as Darwin's Judas?

Day: He only finds Darwin useful insofar as his theory of evolution by natural selection can be used to eliminate the basis for a belief in a Creator God. As Dawkins states in his own words, he's "a passionate anti-Darwinian" with regards to the proper conduct of human affairs. Dawkins thinks humanity should follow Darwin just long enough to cast off Jesus Christ, then ditch Darwin in favor of following Richard Dawkins' opinion on life, the universe and everything. Just like philosophers, you can always count on a scientist to come around eventually to the concept of rule by scientist-king.

Farah: You compare Sam Harris to Michael Bellesiles, who was convicted of academic fraud and lost the Bancroft Prize awarded to him. Is that a fair comparison?

Day: It's probably not fair to Bellesiles. He may have made stuff up, but at least he can handle elementary school division. I also suspect he knows the difference between difficult concepts like "counties" and "states." Harris demonstrably does not.

Farah: What are the most common mistakes made by Christian apologists when dealing with atheism? How is "The Irrational Atheist" different?

Day: Too many Christians forget that their basic assumptions are not shared by the atheist with whom they're talking. Christians always want to quote the Bible to try to prove a point, but to the atheist, that's no more meaningful than reading Shakespeare at them. And Christians often want to talk about the way God makes them feel, forgetting that the atheist's feelings are equally relevant. My book doesn't rely on the Bible or theological gymnastics or emotional appeals; it simply makes use of detailed historical and scientific evidence in order to expose the logical and factual flaws in every atheist argument you're likely to encounter. "The Irrational Atheist" isn't a defense of God or Christianity; I assume the Creator Lord of the Universe can defend Himself. He doesn't need my help.

Farah: Are you considering an apologetic sequel making a case for Christianity?

Day: Not at the moment. Right now, I'm more interested in the philosophical implications of biotechnology. Cross some of biotech's more questionable developments with globalism and post-Christian paganism, and it's not hard to see that we're looking at some crazy days ahead.

Farah: I've heard the book has gotten off to a great start. So why are you making the entire book available as a free download from your blog?

Day: Yeah, it's already on its second print-run ahead of the official release date. As for the download, my theory is that the main problem from which most books suffer is that too few potential readers have heard about them, so I figure that word of mouth from someone who's read the ebook is just as important as that from someone who's read the hardcover. Also, if people like a book that they've read, whether it's a download, a library book or just one they borrowed from a friend, they want to have it. I must have four or five copies of Eco's "The Name of the Rose" myself, not counting translations. But "The Irrational Atheist" ebook isn't a free download per se. It's a Radiohead-style pay-what-you want setup, which includes the option to pay nothing. Various formats including PDF, PDB and LIT will be available starting on the official publication date of Feb. 1.

Farah: Or they could buy it right here at WorldNetDaily today.

Day: That would be even better.

Farah: One last question, and it's an important one. When are you going to lose that ridiculous mohawk and grow a righteous mustache like mine?

Day: The hawk is gone, I'm sad to say. But I'm not sure I've got what it takes pull off the Magnum P.I. look.

Troll Comments 1 - 50 of 112 | | View the Regular Comment Thread

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1. Comment #118449 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 5:06 pm

 avatarAnd if you think this moron is well-read you clearly haven't encountered the truly formidable erudition of top class academics like the ones I mentioned earlier. Seriously, he's not just in a different league to these prodigies, he's playing a different game. Irrespective of which, his vile right-wing views seem to colour everything he says and mark him out as deeply biased and lacking in objectivity.

Are you smart? I like smart people.

Other Comments by Becomethearrow

2. Comment #118452 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 5:09 pm

 avatarCartomancer

Are you smart like Einstein, or like Socrates?

Other Comments by Becomethearrow

3. Comment #118458 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 5:12 pm

 avatarI'm smart like Rainman, have you seen that show, I watch it it every Saturday with mom.

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4. Comment #118478 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 5:29 pm

 avatarGoldy, I read it, it is Einstein and Socrates. I think you make a mistake.

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5. Comment #118481 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 5:32 pm

 avatarSocrates hyad to drink hemlock, he lied about god.

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6. Comment #118493 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 5:42 pm

 avatarCartomancer, I don't know for sure, but I think you are like King Lear.

Other Comments by Becomethearrow

7. Comment #118499 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 5:52 pm

 avatarFrankus1122, is that your picture? you got real white teeth. Mom says brush your teeth after every meal and you will always have white teeth like yours. I once saw a bear in California when we went to Disneyland. We went up on the mountain at Weaverville and I was peeing and saw a bear.

Other Comments by Becomethearrow

8. Comment #118506 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 6:00 pm

 avatarI said I don't know for sure, I just see your picture. And I see King Lear.

And Diacanu, There is really no such thing as troll's. they are just folklore.

Other Comments by Becomethearrow

9. Comment #118508 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 6:01 pm

 avatarBut it is a nice picture, sometimes I wish I didn't see.

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10. Comment #118511 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 6:10 pm

 avatarWhy do people here talk in big words?

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11. Comment #118516 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 6:13 pm

 avatarCartomancer, I think I am going to like you, I wish you could be more happy though. Sometimes you just got to let go of things ya know?

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12. Comment #118523 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 6:20 pm

 avatarI would guess is something like the idea that a perfect god would have made a better world than this one.

I don't understand why you don't like the world. Me and my dog play in the grass, I pick flowers for mom. Sometimes I get ice cream. Have you tried chocolate ice cream with peanut butter, it is is real good.

You can see the sky and the stars, people love yoiu you. Why don't you like the world?

Other Comments by Becomethearrow

13. Comment #118537 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 6:31 pm

 avatarI can go if you you don't like me. I read a bunch of books, mom says I have read over 1000 books. I don't count them but I know what they say. Some I don't understand.

Cartomancer, there is a light behind your face, do you know what it mean? It means life. It means you can be happy.

Other Comments by Becomethearrow

14. Comment #118543 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 6:41 pm

 avatarAre you making fun of me like everyone else, Cartomancer I don't like being made fun of and I read things you haven't Bass.

Other Comments by Becomethearrow

15. Comment #118548 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 6:46 pm

 avatarDouble Bass Atheist, ask me a physics question.

I don't like being made fun of, do you? maybe that is why Cartomancer don't like the world, maybe it isn't a bad nad god, but a bad you. Maybe if you are nice the wortld woulde be nice.

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16. Comment #118556 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 6:56 pm

 avatar"err... I'm really not sure what to say to that one."

You lie, and your friends think I don't see, I see things you can never see, like mom says. People build boxes and then they live in them..

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17. Comment #118562 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 7:01 pm

 avatarI gotta go pee

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18. Comment #118610 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 7:38 pm

 avatarApologies in advance to everyone if this does have something to do with me.

Is it wrong for me to like you,I see you And I see King Lear. Everybody thinks I am stupid, but then won't ask me a physics question. Like mom says who is really smart? I have box she says, and other people have theirs. Why is your box better than mine, and why do you make fun of me?

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19. Comment #118632 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 7:54 pm

 avatarDo you rule out time travel, based on your understanding of physical theory?

There are 6 dimensions to space. Think about the triangle. (A^2+B^2= C^2 Now add time. X^2 + Y^2 Z^2 -T^2-present - T^2 - Past - T^2 Future)

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20. Comment #118639 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 7:57 pm

 avatarOnce this is understood all time and space will be accessible.

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21. Comment #118651 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 8:01 pm

 avatarWould you further accept the possibility that our distant descendants would develop other spectacular, even "god-like" capabilities? Arbitrary space/time travel, ability to deftly manipulate energy on the scale of galaxies, and the wisdom to use these tools without self annihilation?

I once read the book of Mormon, they believe something like that.

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22. Comment #118671 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 8:26 pm

 avatarBTA, I assume that you mean that there are six dimensions to space-time. Although I see past present and future as all aligning on a single time axis, there are certainly a number of theories that postulate multiple time axes as well as additional space axes to which we currently have no recourse, except within the boxes of our own heads.

It strikes me that more than a few of the commenters here rather enjoy making a box out of their heads. Not that there is anything wrong with that, mind you.


Well, you are wrong. I try to tell people, but they always start with things over their heads.

I just try to warn someone about King Lear, and prove that I read then they ask questions they cannot understand.

I just know stuff, OK.

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23. Comment #118685 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 8:57 pm

 avatarThat did not look like any space-time metric with which I am familiar. Then again, I've always had a suspicion that the GR way of understanding time is flawed, and that this is a major impediment to our understanding of how to unify the forces.


No, space and time are not two different things, they are are the same thing. One cannot exist without the other. Why do you question this?

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24. Comment #118687 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 9:00 pm

 avatarWhy don't people ask me simple questions that they can understand.

Mom says I have to go to bed in a few minutes.

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25. Comment #118691 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 9:10 pm

 avatarPlay in the grass with your dog tomorrow and be happy. The world is good and you can be a part of of it. Like mom says, people make the the worlds a good place.

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26. Comment #118721 by Becomethearrow on January 30, 2008 at 9:54 pm

 avatarWell, superficially, because I perceive them differently. I don't doubt that they are part of the same thing, and both necessary for any action to take place... but they are treated differently in each of the two strongest physical theories.

Mom says i have to go to bed now, but she said I could explain before I do. Space. time and matter are all one thing. Your perception of them makes fools out of pawns. You play the game, because you don't know any better from the box in which you live.

All the worlds a stage... And you can't even enjoy playing in the grass with your dog. Mom says I should pray for you, but not tell you that I would. But I shall not even pray for you.

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27. Comment #118977 by Becomethearrow on January 31, 2008 at 8:32 am

 avatarTime is only a boundry of the conscience mind. When you die, time will no longer exist even though your body will rot. The mind travels through time. Time is not a what it is a who, and there are no impossibilities only probabilities.

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28. Comment #118984 by Becomethearrow on January 31, 2008 at 8:39 am

 avatargood morning

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29. Comment #119002 by Becomethearrow on January 31, 2008 at 9:00 am

 avatarCould I ask a question? What is your purpose in coming to this site and posting comments?


I was going to ask you the same question, what is your purpose?

Other Comments by Becomethearrow

30. Comment #119023 by Becomethearrow on January 31, 2008 at 9:17 am

 avatarpossibly a stupid question. Does the rate of expansion of the Universe have any theoretical effect on the "rate of the passage of time?"

Again, apologies if it's a stupid question.



Not a stupid question. The answer is yes but it cannot be observed.

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31. Comment #119037 by Becomethearrow on January 31, 2008 at 9:27 am

 avatarIn that case does the "rate of the passage of time"-

a) increase as the Universe increases in volume

b) decrease?


It has nothing to do with the volume, only the speed of the expansion. Only an obsever from outside would notice. as the expansion speeds up time would decrease to an outside observer.

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32. Comment #119045 by Becomethearrow on January 31, 2008 at 9:28 am

 avatarLunch

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33. Comment #119156 by Becomethearrow on January 31, 2008 at 11:02 am

 avatarI wonder how many people would think the would was created in 6 days if they'd had a better science education?


People who think the Earth was created in six days are backwoods bible thumping snake handlers. I don't listen to them.

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34. Comment #119164 by Becomethearrow on January 31, 2008 at 11:13 am

 avatarSteve

This is a real good book. Wheter you believe in a God or not.

http://www.amazon.com/Language-God-Scientist-Presents-Evidence/dp/B0012F7VFE/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201806590&sr=8-1

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35. Comment #119186 by Becomethearrow on January 31, 2008 at 11:34 am

 avatarBecomethearrow – you stop listening to people when there are arguments are faulty, when they obviously lie or show such hideous rudeness that speaking to them calmly is impossible.


Earth created 6 days = faulty argument, this may come as a surprise to you, but it is not true and I can prove it.

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36. Comment #119201 by Becomethearrow on January 31, 2008 at 11:43 am

 avatarThanks for the entertainment, folks.

The Physicist

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37. Comment #119209 by Becomethearrow on January 31, 2008 at 11:52 am

 avatarOh, I forgot, annabanana, you are too pretty to be smart.

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38. Comment #119215 by Becomethearrow on January 31, 2008 at 12:05 pm

 avatar[sarcasm]Ah yes, I love intelligent refutations of my arguments. It's so refreshing to see a theist who knows how to debate so prolifically.[/sarcasm]

You love it, admit it.

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39. Comment #119220 by Becomethearrow on January 31, 2008 at 12:10 pm

 avatarPhoenix42 on January 31, 2008 at 12:07 pm

It's also funny how xtians usually argue with science by retreating to a pantheist position.


Someome needs a dictionary.

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40. Comment #119231 by Becomethearrow on January 31, 2008 at 12:20 pm

 avatarannabanana on January 31, 2008 at 12:12 pm

Becomethearrow, if you aren't going to say anything useful...maybe you should shut up.


Fear not, I'm not here to save your eternal soul. I don't have what any of you are looking for. Fill your own holes.

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41. Comment #119268 by Becomethearrow on January 31, 2008 at 12:45 pm

 avatarKardashovel, I hate to tell you this, but these people will be just as empty when you leave as they were when you came in.

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42. Comment #119273 by Becomethearrow on January 31, 2008 at 12:48 pm

 avatarHey, dippidydoo find another way insult Christians, xtianity is an accurate word as X does stand for Christ. Just trying to help out.

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43. Comment #119278 by Becomethearrow on January 31, 2008 at 12:51 pm

 avatarYep, we're all soul dead monsters, so I guess you'd better bugger off.

Then whatever would you do?

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44. Comment #119285 by Becomethearrow on January 31, 2008 at 12:55 pm

 avatarHow the hell do you know I am empty. What an arrogant assumption. You have the truth and the light.

Because Thou protests too much.

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45. Comment #119294 by Becomethearrow on January 31, 2008 at 1:03 pm

 avatarTo review you said I was empty in #907, in #913 I protested. In # 921 you said you called me empty because I protest too much.


Looks like I know you better than you do.

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46. Comment #119298 by Becomethearrow on January 31, 2008 at 1:06 pm

 avatarWhen you carry your persecution complex 30 feet ahead of you in every direction, it's not persecution anymore, it's passive narcissism, and passive agression.


Here's a little pointer dippidydoo, I am persecuting you.

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47. Comment #119314 by Becomethearrow on January 31, 2008 at 1:20 pm

 avatarIf I only knew where dippidydoo lived, I would sneak up at night and put the Ten Comanments in his Yard. And then I would put an I (heart) Jesus bumpersticker on his car.

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48. Comment #119322 by Becomethearrow on January 31, 2008 at 1:36 pm

 avatarHmm, threatening to tresspass on my land, and vandalize my property, why, it's exactly the sort of thing Jesus would approve of, isn't it?


He drove the money changers out of the temple. You take yourself waaaaay too seriously.

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49. Comment #119325 by Becomethearrow on January 31, 2008 at 1:46 pm

 avatarNow you atheists have had it. He shall raise an army and put thumb screws to everyone who shall not submit.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=pope-says-some-science-sh

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50. Comment #119332 by Becomethearrow on January 31, 2008 at 1:57 pm

 avatarYou are right. That wasn't to you. I accidentaly typed your name at the top of a post to becomethearrow.


Still Protesting.

Al, pretend for second there was a God and he created us in his image. Don't you think God would have a sense of humor?

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