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Monday, January 15, 2007 | Science : Earth Sciences | print version Print | Comments

Document Wash. school board restricts Gore's global-warming film

by The Associated Press

Reposted from:
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=18001

Admin note: This story is similar to the one posted last week, but with some additional information.

FEDERAL WAY, Wash. — The school board in this suburb south of Seattle has restricted showings of Al Gore's movie on global warming, including requiring that it be balanced with an adequate opposing viewpoint.

The board also required Superintendent Tom Murphy to approve when the former vice president's film, "An Inconvenient Truth," can be presented.

The decision was sparked by complaints from parents who said their children were taking the film as fact after viewing it at school.

"Condoms don't belong in school, and neither does Al Gore. He's not a schoolteacher," said Frosty Hardison, a parent of seven children who doesn't want the film shown at all.

"The information that's being presented is a very cockeyed view of what the truth is," Hardison told the Seattle Post-Intelligencer. "The Bible says that in the end times everything will burn up, but that perspective isn't in the DVD."

Board President Ed Barney told The News Tribune of Tacoma on Jan. 10 that he had received about a half-dozen complaints from parents.

"We have to ensure that our schools are not being used to politically indoctrinate anyone," said board member Dave Larson, who with Barney and board member Charlie Hoff voted Jan. 9 for the requirements.

None of the board members has seen the movie. District policy, however, requires that an opposing view be aired whenever a controversial issue is examined in school.

"I am shocked that a school district would come to this decision," the movie's co-producer, Laurie David, said in a statement. "There is no opposing view to science, which is fact, and the facts are clear that global warming is here, now."

Gore's documentary has received approval from some of the nation's top climate scientists for its accuracy. In it, he presents scientists' findings on the catastrophic dangers of climate change.

Federal researchers with the National Academy of Sciences have said the planet's temperature has climbed to levels not seen in thousands of years, and has begun to affect plants and animals.

But Larson offered two opposing articles, including one by author John Stossel, that said many scientists discredit global-warming predictions. He also cited NASA and NOAA Web sites referring to debate and disagreement over climate change.

The film also has been denied a showing at Tacoma's Remann Hall, a high school for juvenile offenders, where Principal Rue Palmer rejected a teacher's request.

The film hasn't been approved by the Tacoma School District's curriculum committee. The school also focuses on core subjects and doesn't generally show films, said Patti Holmgren, Tacoma district spokeswoman.

The National Science Teachers Association turned down an offer from the film's producers for 50,000 free DVDs for classroom use. The association said it didn't want to be seen as politically endorsing the film or to open itself to requests from other special interests.

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1. Comment #17708 by FHardison on January 15, 2007 at 3:28 pm

Hello all. Frosty E Hardison here. Yeah it's really ME!

On something as simple as faith? You either have it or you don't.

On something as simple as having a testimony that Jesus Christ has taken an active part in your life? You either have one or you don't. If you don't have it, you walk around in life an empty shell – often times you don't even know it! Once you are filled with HIM and the unconditional love that He is all about? You KNOW what it was to be empty and you want to help others discover the truth too. Scientists can't measure that.

On something as simple as the age of the earth? I can do the math, the lineage provided in Matthew 1:1-17 and Luke 3:23-38 that give the genealogy of Jesus Christ (Matthew recorded Joseph's lineage, while Luke gave the family tree of Mary) places us at what right about 12,000 years today?

As far as science goes? Observational science and speculation of new ideas? Oh yeah, what we see is what we get. Or is it an optical illusion? I have no problems keeping an open mind for new ideas, perspectives and sources of information… the thing is, even under strict circumstances: Can we as fallible humans be mis-interpreting the data that is being read? As a data and systems analyst I have to ask that question all the time. Same goes for the carbon 14 factor. Where do the calculations come from that the world is several billions of years old when carbon 14 data is only good for a few thousand years? Then when you look at the methodology of HOW carbon 14 itself is produced you come into several variances to consider as well. Under what circumstances are there fewer occurrences of C14 being produced – what increases and what decreases it? Is it steady? Is it stable? What factors produce the absorption rates into tissues, fossils and specimens we are looking at? Do they differ or vary by diet, climate, solar variances? As a hobbyist in science myself, I at least still ask those questions.

I would rather have a human witness to cross examine than a machine of any kind – any day. Neither are infallible, but at least one of them can reason, think and extrapolate a conclusion weighing ALL the evidence rather than a preprogrammed set of line codes that can be out of calibration at any given time.

And if you want a spokes person for global warming – I would have chosen Ben Stein! Not AL Gore. Have a wonderful day.

Other Comments by FHardison

2. Comment #17710 by roach on January 15, 2007 at 3:39 pm

Wow. I'll trust that Frosty actually did just post above. Isn't the information age amazing? How very sad it is that many of us still rely on an Iron Age text for our worldview.

Other Comments by roach

3. Comment #17711 by Duncan1349 on January 15, 2007 at 3:41 pm

 avatarThe reference to Carbon 14 like this is the only dating method, no mention of Potassium-Argon or Uranium-Thorium-Lead dating. As for both humans and machines being fallible, the comment made that at least the human can "reason, think and extrapolate", no mention that humans are susceptible to misinterpretation, bias, doubt, senses being fooled etc.

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4. Comment #17712 by FXR on January 15, 2007 at 3:53 pm

 avatarMaybe Hardi could tell us what devastating historical truths he's gleaned from reading Mother Goose!

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5. Comment #17716 by Devolution on January 15, 2007 at 4:30 pm

 avatarFrosty it is obvious that you know nothing about science. Have you even bothered to watch the documentary in question? Most likely you outright dismiss anything that doesn't fall in place with your mythic system. As Duncan mentioned above there are about 12 different ways to date fossils, all of them with a margin of error, but all of them verified across the world through hundreds of different geological strata. Why are you sending your 7 kids to public school anyways? Don't nutjobs like you usually home school your children so that the indoctrination progress can be as effective as possible?

Other Comments by Devolution

6. Comment #17717 by Logicel on January 15, 2007 at 4:32 pm

 avatar"On something as simple as having a testimony that Jesus Christ has taken an active part in your life? You either have one or you don't. If you don't have it, you walk around in life an empty shell – often times you don't even know it! Once you are filled with HIM and the unconditional love that He is all about? You KNOW what it was to be empty and you want to help others discover the truth too. Scientists can't measure that.
________

When you are filled with religious superstitutions you are truly empty--emptied mind, hopelessly out of tune regarding human progress and productive working for solutions of pressing problems here on earth, empty of self-directed ambition and goals. All you are is an empty shell filled with hot, useless air. Now if that is the air you choose to breath in, go right ahead. But folks who are self directed, who rejoice in their human status, who exult in their human consciousness are so full that all they can do is to wince at your emptiness and let you go your empty way. And fight you consistently on your superstitious brainwashing of children and your brainless meddling in public policy.

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7. Comment #17718 by NeoGothic on January 15, 2007 at 4:41 pm

FHardison wrote: "On something as simple as the age of the earth? I can do the math, the lineage provided in Matthew 1:1-17 and Luke 3:23-38 that give the genealogy of Jesus Christ (Matthew recorded Joseph's lineage, while Luke gave the family tree of Mary) places us at what right about 12,000 years today? "


What makes Frosty think that the bible can be cited as a reliable document for any information pertaining to the physical world? It was written by a bunch of old men who were uneducated by today's standards and thought the Earth was flat, over the course of several thousand years How you do verify the information in the bible? Can another person arrive at your conclusion by another method that doesn't include the bible? What about the Hindu Gita (their holy book)? It claims the Earth is far older than the date arrived at by study of the bible. And what of other religions? If we accept the claims of the bible and are honest enough to stick to the same standards of evidence we used on it, then we are forced to accept the truth of other, contradictory holy books. This goes along with the presumtion that faith (read: belief without evidence) is somehow a good thing and a valid method of knowing. The whole business is preposterous hogwash.

Other Comments by NeoGothic

8. Comment #17721 by DavidJMH on January 15, 2007 at 4:51 pm

Ladies and Gentlemen,
How refreshing to have the opinion directly from the horses arse. It is pointless trying to debate such an ignorant bigot; reason and enlightenment are simple not part of his genome. Frosty deserves our pity and so do his poor children whom he wishes to keep in the dark ages.

Other Comments by DavidJMH

9. Comment #17724 by Jack Rawlinson on January 15, 2007 at 5:45 pm

 avatarHey Frosty! My Granpappy only died in 1974 and he said he saw a UFO, and I believed him! How cool that you believe people who wrote some mad shit over 2000 years ago! You are Mr. Rational!

Can we as fallible humans be mis-interpreting the data that is being read?

Sure we can! Unless the data that is being read is that which is contained in the bible, eh? Then it's so obviously truth that we can damned well add up all those ages in that genealogy in the book of Matthew and GOSHDURN IT EVILUTION MUST BE WRONG!

Thank you for bringing some cool-headed reason to our humble forum, Frosty!

Other Comments by Jack Rawlinson

10. Comment #17738 by k1mgy on January 15, 2007 at 9:24 pm

 avatar>>As a data and systems analyst I have to ask that question all the time. Same goes for the carbon 14 factor. Where do the calculations come from that the world is several billions of years old when carbon 14 data is only good for a few thousand years?<<

~~Cringe~~

I think at this point we all owe a debt of thanks to the armies of computer scientists, engineers, and managers who work hard to prevent potentially disastrous miscalculations caused by bogus algorithms from fowling up critical software.

Other Comments by k1mgy

11. Comment #17743 by denoir on January 15, 2007 at 9:57 pm

 avatar
Once you are filled with HIM and the unconditional love that He is all about? You KNOW what it was to be empty and you want to help others discover the truth too. Scientists can't measure that.


I always found such claims very funny. If I lobotomize you or pump you full of drugs, you won't care about being "filled" and you certainly won't care about helping others to "discover the truth".

The point is that we can through the means of the physical world (namely through your brain) change you completely, including your faith. And if there is a way to physically interact with it, then it is measurable.

The only god or that science can't measure is a god that doesn't in any way interact with the real world.

Other Comments by denoir

12. Comment #17755 by Martin on January 15, 2007 at 11:40 pm

 avatar
On something as simple as the age of the earth? I can do the math, the lineage provided in Matthew 1:1-17 and Luke 3:23-38 that give the genealogy of Jesus Christ (Matthew recorded Joseph's lineage, while Luke gave the family tree of Mary)

Hey, I thought Jesus was the son of God, but according to FHardison, he's the son of Mary and ... Joseph! Thanks FHardison (and Matthew), for debunking that myth as well!

Other Comments by Martin

13. Comment #17756 by Blue State Mike on January 15, 2007 at 11:41 pm

Frosty - your post, in which you sharply question science, but give the far more skepticism-worthy religion a free pass, aptly demonstrates that fundamentalist extremists such as yourself are intellectually dead or dishonest or self-deluding or some or all of the above. And no, blind faith is NOT a virtue. Religion is ignorance. And you are a fool.

P.S. - Even Pat Robertson has become a global warming true believer, for the love of Jesus. What is your excuse?

Other Comments by Blue State Mike

14. Comment #17758 by theclown on January 15, 2007 at 11:47 pm

"Condoms don't belong in school"
"Once you are filled with HIM and the unconditional love that He is all about?"

I think I have heard these sentences in a bad prison movie somewhere,
"Hey, I'm all about love, don't you want to get filled with me?" "I don't need no stinking condoms!"

My latest thinking is that we should just make fun of the religious people, make them look like the clowns they are, I mean if some one told me he/she really believed in Zeus I would laugh at them for a long time.

"Can we as fallible humans be mis-interpreting the data that is being read?"
Why don't the religious people never ever say that about the bible? I think it's strange that according to religious people, you can always "mis-interpreting" science but never the bible.

Other Comments by theclown

15. Comment #17759 by CF1 on January 15, 2007 at 11:52 pm

Frosty:

I'm going to attempt to be as polite as possible. I'm quite familiar with you're statements and way of thinking (although it scarcely can be called thinking) as I was a christian for a quarter of a century.
I then grew up out of the infancy of believing that there was a daddy figure in the sky. I read books (other than the bible and books about the bible) and in the 20 years since waking up, have grown in ways that I could never have, had I stayed in the childish confines of the christian church.

I could go on & on, but I would just encourage you to visit:
www.godisimaginary.com

and if you feel that you are able to defend your beliefs, visit the forum on:
www.whywontgodhealamputees

"When you understand why you reject all of the hundreds of other gods, then you will understand why I reject yours".

Other Comments by CF1

16. Comment #17762 by Tinky Winky on January 16, 2007 at 12:39 am

Post 7, Comment 17780 (Frosty)

"On something as simple as having a testimony that Jesus Christ has taken an active part in your life? You either have one or you don't. If you don't have it, you walk around in life an empty shell – often times you don't even know it! Once you are filled with HIM and the unconditional love that He is all about? You KNOW what it was...." ...blah blah blah...

I stopped reading at this point.


"you walk around in life an empty shell – often times you don't even know it"


Maybe because most people without religious faith don't feel like an empty shell, hence they don't 'know it'

I don't feel depressed, therefore I can deduce I am not depressed. I don't need a doctor to convince me to take a course of prozac because I 'don't know' I'm depressed.

Other Comments by Tinky Winky

17. Comment #17764 by JohnC on January 16, 2007 at 12:54 am

 avatarGee, I thought Frosty was a clown. And I was right, apparently.

But seriously, you just have to glimpse the deranged bleatings about carbon dating (which by the way is valid to about 60,000 years) to know there is no possibility of meaningful dialogue. So whoever our friend actually is, let's not waste too much time on him.

Other Comments by JohnC
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