Religion's Real Child Abuse2. Comment #409 by G. Tingey on September 28, 2006 at 8:02 am
An apparently US-type Christian group have set up shop in the UK, determined to peddle lies to schoolchildren.3. Comment #2105 by Rachael on October 18, 2006 at 9:26 pm
Here are several fragments from my experiences, to add to the discussion, in hopes that some reader may find them useful:4. Comment #2106 by Rachael on October 18, 2006 at 9:27 pm
Here are several fragments from my experiences, to add to the discussion, in hopes that some reader may find them useful:6. Comment #13019 by caraujo on December 15, 2006 at 4:40 am
This discussion of Hell and Jesus is very contradictory! Obvious to some. One way I like to think of a belief in Jesus is that he gave the people in society 2000 years ago away to break from the traditions of religions requiring sacrafice and the focus on hell. Whether Jesus is actually Gods son or not, I think the beief in Jesus made some significant changes for the world. I don't think the New Testament has the focus of Hell as the Old Testament does. But sounds like religions are not letting go of the power of the threat of hell. I think this sight is great - liberating.7. Comment #13039 by Logicel on December 15, 2006 at 6:25 am
8. Comment #17877 by Linda on January 17, 2007 at 7:07 am
Stockholm Syndrome & the spread or reinforcement of religion9. Comment #18400 by kwirth on January 20, 2007 at 3:17 pm
10. Comment #18402 by Logicel on January 20, 2007 at 3:33 pm
11. Comment #18410 by NJS on January 20, 2007 at 4:25 pm
Kwirth:12. Comment #18415 by Russell Blackford on January 20, 2007 at 4:49 pm
Once again, it's salutary to see examples of the mindset we are up against.13. Comment #18418 by Logicel on January 20, 2007 at 5:16 pm
14. Comment #18436 by kwirth on January 20, 2007 at 7:57 pm
15. Comment #18439 by Ben Jennings on January 20, 2007 at 8:31 pm
16. Comment #18447 by roach on January 20, 2007 at 11:56 pm
I wish I could claim I came up with this argument myself but I can't. I also can't remember the name of the guy who said it (he appears in The God Who Wasn't There). Anyway, it went something like this...17. Comment #18453 by Logicel on January 21, 2007 at 1:45 am
18. Comment #18454 by Logicel on January 21, 2007 at 1:59 am
19. Comment #18455 by Logicel on January 21, 2007 at 2:05 am
20. Comment #18459 by BaronOchs on January 21, 2007 at 3:12 am
21. Comment #18465 by Logicel on January 21, 2007 at 4:35 am
22. Comment #18467 by Logicel on January 21, 2007 at 4:47 am
23. Comment #20457 by Lizzy on February 2, 2007 at 5:06 pm
Hi, I am an athiest now but was brought up Catholic and went to Roman Catholic schools.24. Comment #23691 by RichardPrins on March 2, 2007 at 5:30 am
25. Comment #27782 by TedGrant on March 26, 2007 at 5:18 pm
Dear God,26. Comment #43987 by ronhende on May 23, 2007 at 6:08 am
Poor Dawikins! I heartily agree that the teaching of hell fire, an eternally burning hell, would traumatize any worm, let alone humans! Years ago I had the opportunity of resolving a 15 year old quarrel between two elders. The one thought the other had made an offensive remark against him. For 15 years he bore a grudge against the other chap; always attacking him intellectually-until the victim reported the matter to me.27. Comment #44310 by Gene Chase on May 24, 2007 at 9:11 am
I've read Dawkins' The God Delusion. Although I agree with Alister McGrath's extended critique of the book (The Dawkins Delusion?), my objection to Dawkins' argument can be boiled down to one sentence: You have not made the case that there are any grounds to care, to be moral, to be rational, or to press "forward" (whatever that is) in the absence of the God Who speaks to your conscience and Who displays God's glorious handiwork in all of the universe's magnificent 11-dimensional beauty. Or to put it more briefly, for you, why does matter matter if that's all there is? Why does anything matter?28. Comment #44316 by epeeist on May 24, 2007 at 9:57 am
You have not made the case that there are any grounds to care, to be moral, to be rational, or to press "forward" (whatever that is) in the absence of the God Who speaks to your conscience and Who displays God's glorious handiwork in all of the universe's magnificent 11-dimensional beauty. Or to put it more briefly, for you, why does matter matter if that's all there is? Why does anything matter?
29. Comment #51017 by gazzalw1 on June 21, 2007 at 5:36 am
Notice that all these references to 'Hell' (translated actually as Hades) are from the NEW Testament and not the OLD Testament. Now bearing in mind who the new testament was written for, and it wasn't the Jews, this is no suprise. The Greeks and Romans were already familiar with the concept of Hades the ruler of the underworld but Jews were not so would have either difficulty in accepting the concept or would expect punishment from Yahweh anyway not roasting for all eternity with some bearded bloke with a pitchfork for company. Throw in a few more concepts the Graeco-Romans are familiar with namely Virgin birth (Mithras and various Greek gods), miracles (Mithras again) and the resurrection (Greek and Egyptian mythology) and you have what is in effect a great set of recruitment pamphlets for citizens of the empire and a new trendy mystery cult that they just lapped up. Well done 'Saint' Paul, a great cut and paste job done. Of course nowadays we can all see through this can't we.30. Comment #70074 by chinabound on September 14, 2007 at 2:13 am
I think Richard Dawkins is a Saviour of modern times.31. Comment #70075 by Flagellant on September 14, 2007 at 2:28 am
32. Comment #70081 by Russell Blackford on September 14, 2007 at 2:49 am
It's good to see this thread again. Dawkins cops a lot of ill-advised criticism for comparing the harms from certain kinds of religious indoctrination of children with those from sexual abuse, as if the comparison was obviously absurd and offensive. Here, he explains the basis of his position - and as always, he develops his argument clearly, carefully, fairly ... and particularly convincingly in this case.33. Comment #70507 by kiodasu on September 15, 2007 at 7:26 pm
Hi..34. Comment #89694 by rddbug on November 21, 2007 at 2:16 pm
35. Comment #89699 by Eric Blair on November 21, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Dawkins' position is fair enough as rhetoric but it doesn't really lead anywhere, mainly because the crime of emotional or psychological abuse of children isn't well established, regardless of its context.36. Comment #109641 by Ingmar on January 9, 2008 at 11:01 am
Dawkins states his opinion that that religious upbringing is child abuse and supports it with evidence from a few individual victims. However, a hand full of supporting examples has no statistical significance. As he promotes the use of science to validate hypothesises, I would welcome a scientific study affirming Dawkins's hypothesis.37. Comment #109645 by Geoff on January 9, 2008 at 11:32 am
...research the teaching of hell and death he would find that there is no such teaching in God's lovely message to us humans.
38. Comment #185929 by thewisejessica on May 29, 2008 at 6:31 am
Rachael's childhood experience is so mirrored by my own that I feel it is redundant to add my story. But I do think we need to examine how children are raised to see and experience spirituality.39. Comment #186205 by morgan06 on May 29, 2008 at 11:01 pm
If you call it child abuse when someone tells a child that some people he knows are going to hell, then what do you call it when someone tells him that he was the product of a natural process, that his life is no more significant than that of a bacterium, that there is no purpose in life, no morality, no hope for anything better? That even parental love has no higher meaning than that it evolved to better pass a parent's genes on to future generations? What kind of a mark do you think that makes on a child?40. Comment #186208 by mordacious1 on May 29, 2008 at 11:17 pm
41. Comment #186222 by Galactor on May 30, 2008 at 12:28 am
42. Comment #186233 by irate_atheist on May 30, 2008 at 2:01 am
...I believed that when I died I would simply disappearThat is correct. You cease to experience anything as your brain is no longer active. Big deal. An Appeal to Emotion, nothing else.
43. Comment #239518 by Shrommer on August 29, 2008 at 9:01 pm
I was a Roman Catholic for 13 years, and I don't regret being taught about hell. What I think was terrible is that I wasn't told the good news from anyone in the Catholic Church, and had to wait for an Evangelical group to tell me how we can know we have eternal life in Christ.44. Comment #239530 by irate_atheist on August 29, 2008 at 10:09 pm
45. Comment #239606 by ibrow-zing on August 30, 2008 at 2:36 am
Ibrow's song: Fear is Ruling, provides the soundtrack for
a classic old computer game.
The song and the game are both protests against the
religious indoctrination of children.
Free to download from
http://ibrow.info/music/peace-invaders
The song and game do have copyright but both are
completely free for personal or educational use.
Commercial use is not authorised.
46. Comment #240169 by ryth_mick on August 31, 2008 at 2:13 am
From Ibrow's "Fear is ruling"How much pain does it take to defend your belief?
How many children corrupted to carry your grief?
What does it mean when you tell them you're ordained?
Are you ignorant or stupid, are you wicked or insane?
You're screwing their brains and it's obscene!
47. Comment #374557 by freethinkerforlife on May 9, 2009 at 8:00 pm
I grew up in an evangelical church - Assembly of God in Colorado - and I would certainly call many parts of it child abuse. I have many horrific memories. One was at an age of around 7, watching a movie in the church that demonstrated the anti-christ coming and those that would not take the mark of the beast getting their heads chopped off and that those who would get their head chopped off becoming true martyrs when they go to heaven. Most thoughtful people that saw someone in a movie theater with a 7 year old with such a plot, would not stand for it. For some reason, churches get a free pass on the types of information they shove down little kids throats. We need to recognize this and stop the nonsense. Thank you Mr. Dawkins for your wonderful work.48. Comment #402845 by TrueAgnostic on August 5, 2009 at 11:41 pm
I couldn't resist making some comments on this topic even though the article is old. I didn't even know who Richard Dawkins was until this year when I saw him in some Ben Stein anti-evolution film. At first I thought any connection to Nazis was completely ridiculous until I heard this smug and obnoxious know-it-all try to claim that religion does more harm than good. He really does hate religion just like Hitler hated Jews, Gypsies, etc.49. Comment #402856 by Goldy on August 6, 2009 at 12:16 am
Several years later my brother came to the conclusion that he didn't believe in God or any afterlife anymore and convinced his wife that this was the absolute truth. It's obvious to see the negative difference this has made and the sadness it brought to his life. Now I really worry about how his daughter's life is going to turn out if she is raised to believe in this cynical and unpopular philosophy.
Now I really worry about how his daughter's life is going to turn out if she is raised to believe in this cynical and unpopular philosophy.
He really does hate religion just like Hitler hated Jews, Gypsies, etc.Colourful language - but I hate religion passionately too. I hate it like your sister in law appears to be hating your brother, just because he didn't fall for the lie.
50. Comment #405772 by TrueAgnostic on August 14, 2009 at 9:01 pm
Even if there is no god, anyone who claims religion is all bad or harmful by itself is a liar. Atheists like to emphasize a few extreme examples that are not exactly typical. On top of that, whenever you have Christians behaving badly (pedophile priests, Jimmy Swaggart, Bloody Mary, etc.) it turns out that in the Bible Jesus always condemns this behavior and never once said anything to encourage it. So these cases can be easily dismissed as a few bad apples who were often complete hypocrites and definitely not good Christians to begin with.
1. Comment #284 by LWS on September 24, 2006 at 4:15 pm
Anecdote: My Italian grandmother was illiterate and superstitious. Peasant women had little opportunity for education or intellectual freedom. At six I was sent to RC school and my first impression was to wonder why they were so mean to kids. Later on at fourteen I had to leave an RC girls school for challenging the monsignor on the issue of virgin birth. My comments to the man suggested that if anything at all happened it was just another unplanned teen pregnancy. Failing the religion course led to me achieving freedom from the fear of hell (eventually) and atheism. In all honesty I never did believe any of the stuff of indoctrination but did enjoy the bleeding statues, men in fancy dress, candles and incense.Those with a social conscience and a strong moral code should see imposing religion on the developing minds of children as cruel and inhumane. Filling infants’ heads with superstitious nonsense that is never recanted in the same way that fairy stories are is quite absurd yet even educated parents do this. Enchantment is a useful narrative tool for teaching children morality however when culture and governments sanctify imaginary friends it leads to social disaster. The result is a terrified population that is emotionally castrated. I also wonder why it is so hard to stop ritual genital mutilation (circumcision) of defenseless children. How curious that people agree to be outraged by stories of other forms of child abuse while quietly perpetrating it themselves.
Consenting adults can be free to practice religion but like sex should do in privacy. They should never interfere in government.