1. Comment #44689 by Mat on May 25, 2007 at 7:23 am

What about a course for atheist sports workers?

Other Comments by Mat

2. Comment #44690 by djmagaro on May 25, 2007 at 7:28 am

The old order Mennonites and Amish in Pennsylvania don't need university degrees (or even a high school education) to organize their softball teams, and they seem to do pretty well. Heck, they used to destroy our Boy Scout troop whenever we'd play'em. They thought it was hilarious to watch us English (as they called us) go three-up, three-down every inning.

Other Comments by djmagaro

3. Comment #44696 by epeeist on May 25, 2007 at 7:33 am

Comment #44689 by Mat

What about a course for atheist sports workers?

Easy, its exactly the same as the Christian one but you are allowed to compete on Sundays.

I wonder what Jonathon Edwards would think about it?

Other Comments by epeeist

4. Comment #44707 by BicycleRepairMan on May 25, 2007 at 7:43 am

he doesn't understand the history between sport and churches in this country.

Whats that got to do with anything? Isnt this 2007 and christianity should be allowed to rot in church where its bigotry and ignorance belongs?

Other Comments by BicycleRepairMan

5. Comment #44717 by vertigo25 on May 25, 2007 at 8:10 am

"Degree in Christian sports worker" is the new "degree in underwater basket weaving."

Other Comments by vertigo25

6. Comment #44718 by redfive on May 25, 2007 at 8:10 am

I am disappointed by Professor Dawkins' ignorance. Like Dr Pitchfork says, he doesn't understand the history between sport and churches in this country.

For example, did you know that the sport of running was developed in the colosseums where christians and lions would compete?

In our country shot putting was traditionally performed using easter eggs. And then there's the steeplechase.

Wake up Professor Dawkins. English sporting heritage is replete with many other examples of sports that owe their very being to the church, and long may it continue.

Does anybody have the number of the admissions tutor?

Other Comments by redfive

7. Comment #44721 by konquererz on May 25, 2007 at 8:15 am

Who ever heard of a real University having a degree in something so.... well.... pointless? What exactly are you learning here for this degree? Sound more like teaching people to be evangelists on sports teams, and that doesn't belong in university, hell it doesn't even belong any where! This is utter nonsense! Again!

Other Comments by konquererz

8. Comment #44726 by flyingscot on May 25, 2007 at 8:24 am

Comment #44718 by redfive on May 25, 2007 at 8:10 am

I am disappointed by Professor Dawkins' ignorance. Like Dr Pitchfork says, he doesn't understand the history between sport and churches in this country.

'PITCHFORK'......I love it!! How apt! Great typo.

Other Comments by flyingscot

9. Comment #44741 by the great teapot on May 25, 2007 at 8:39 am

Religion and sport.
Who could forget the freindly banter between Celtic and Rangers fans.

Other Comments by the great teapot

10. Comment #44746 by flashbaby on May 25, 2007 at 8:48 am

9. Comment #44741 by the great teapot on May 25, 2007 at 8:39 am
Religion and sport.
Who could forget the freindly banter between Celtic and Rangers fans.

Partick Thistle fans like me for a start.

Other Comments by flashbaby

11. Comment #44776 by Fedler on May 25, 2007 at 9:20 am

Wow. A new low in academia.

Even giving it the benefit of the doubt, is there really a market for this type of degree? Are there hordes of people lining up to get this degree which fills a void in society? In keeping with the economics of supply and demand, where's the demand? I can't fathom this being a useful degree and one that will pay the bills.

Other Comments by Fedler

12. Comment #44796 by Lara Avara on May 25, 2007 at 9:52 am

Christian sports - water polo where the righteous walk on the water

Other Comments by Lara Avara

13. Comment #44809 by posiedon on May 25, 2007 at 10:27 am

epeeist.
I wonder what Jonathon Edwards would think about it?

Did you know Edwards has lost his "faith" and is no longer hosting songs of praise?
His dad is the vicar in a village I used to live in.

Other Comments by posiedon

14. Comment #44817 by Spinoza on May 25, 2007 at 10:41 am

University of Glasgow's Dean of Arts is a Pottery professor... so yeah...

Other Comments by Spinoza

15. Comment #44819 by mintcheerios on May 25, 2007 at 10:42 am

On Fox it was Dr. Falwell, and here it's Mr. Dawkins. We must be living in topsy-turvey world.

Other Comments by mintcheerios

16. Comment #44824 by Reverend Dark on May 25, 2007 at 10:56 am

I should think that the church would be shying away from such things after the number of all ages, all weight classes, wrestling incidents that have been showing up in the papers over the last few years.

How does one equate intentions with the sin as a ref? Does thinking about going offside, or thinking about putting to the boot to your opponent's goolies count as highly as acting on that thought? Is the Triathalon now the father moving in a mysterious way, christ on a bike and a dip in the holy spirit?

Wait... Maybe we can lure Professor Andy Macintosh as a teacher. Thermodynamics loss could be footy's gain.

The Reverend Shayne Dark

Other Comments by Reverend Dark

17. Comment #44830 by pewkatchoo on May 25, 2007 at 11:07 am

Flashbaby, so you are The Partick Thistle fan. I always wanted to meet you!

Other Comments by pewkatchoo

18. Comment #44846 by Nails on May 25, 2007 at 11:53 am

Who really cares about the history of sport and the church?
most of us are more bothered about the history of the church and war, child abuse, inquisition and other such matters it is yet to get right.

Other Comments by Nails

19. Comment #44857 by SteveN on May 25, 2007 at 12:05 pm

"Up to 15 students are expected to enrol."*

*as long as it us understood that the phrase "up to" clearly includes the number nought"

(I thought a Monty Python quote would be appropriate here)

Other Comments by SteveN

20. Comment #44861 by Jerome on May 25, 2007 at 12:13 pm

I used to work for said instituition, and so despite my amusement, I will seriously go and interview the course leader on tuesday.

As to the quality of the academic studies of CPM/CHCHE/uni.glos, well I did both an undergrad and a couples of postgrads there, and taught at the place. Obviously I liked it, but you can judge the educational standard by the quality of their ex-students - like moi!
:)

j x

Other Comments by Jerome

21. Comment #44881 by NMcC on May 25, 2007 at 12:48 pm

What on earth can 'Christian Sports Worker' possibly mean?

Surely it can only mean that a student on such a course organises, for example, a football match, and then, when all the players and supporters turn up, uses the opportunity simply to prosletyse on behalf of the Christian religion?

You can just hear the objections: 'I'm not coming to another match organised by you. The last time I went to one of your games there was not enough talk about penalty saves and too much talk about ***king Jesus saves'.

Perhaps I'm completely missing the point. I hope so.

Other Comments by NMcC

22. Comment #44912 by Luthien on May 25, 2007 at 2:47 pm

The real question is, are they taught self defense with fruit? ;-)

Edit: I found it on youtube:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5RKTSwAVaoU

Other Comments by Luthien

23. Comment #44913 by _J_ on May 25, 2007 at 2:52 pm

I'd just like to share the added detail that The Daily Telgraph, perhaps aware of just how bullshit this piece of bullshit journalism is, did not attribute it to an actual author. In the print edition, it is 'by Daily Telegraph Reporter'. Yes, I think I've met him.

Anyone else find that phrases like:

Mr [sic] Dawkins...after being told of such a course

and

"I can only imagine it is some kind of Monty Python sketch,"

reek of the well worn journalistic strategy: 'I know - I'll phone up a known atheist and feed him half a story in the hope that he'll say something controversial'?

The print edition also ended with a small boxout with a link to the online version, begging the reader to have his or her say on the question 'Is Richard Dawkins an atheist fundamentalist?' In that a fundamentalist is defined (in my dictionary) as one who 'strictly maintains' a belief (in face of, say, reasoned question), the answer would be 'No. Don't be a bloody idiot.'

Not a gleaming jewel in The Daily Telegraph's history of reportage, then.

Other Comments by _J_

24. Comment #44926 by Geoff on May 25, 2007 at 3:37 pm

I couldn't resist...

http://www.glos.ac.uk/subjectsandcourses/postgraduatetaught/sco/entry2007.cfm

"The course focuses on the ways in which Christian churches and parachurch organisations can use sport as a medium to connect with a range of populations."

Other Comments by Geoff

25. Comment #44941 by Donald on May 25, 2007 at 3:58 pm

Some translations:

connect with = slip religions indoctrination into

applied theology = evangelism

specialist mission training = how to convert the gullible

sports ministry = slip religious indoctrination into sports

Oh my. I note that the course is supported by sponsorship, both for the course itself, and for funding the jobs that the graduates will be training for.

Other Comments by Donald

26. Comment #44962 by jvc on May 25, 2007 at 5:10 pm

I think this is what Dr. Dawkins was referring to.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=79vdlEcWxvM

Other Comments by jvc

27. Comment #45003 by RickM on May 25, 2007 at 7:01 pm

"For many centuries churches have played a central role in community life…".

Right, like persecuting, terrorizing and burning people at the stake.

Other Comments by RickM

28. Comment #45034 by njwong on May 25, 2007 at 11:48 pm

On comment #44962 by jvc:

There is a longer version of the video (1 minute longer - and much funnier) at this other link:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=i2TicMbH4OY

Other Comments by njwong

29. Comment #45036 by Karl Christensen on May 26, 2007 at 12:45 am

And the first student to enrol will be Moses Cohen, graduate of Tel Aviv's School of Physical Education.

Other Comments by Karl Christensen

30. Comment #45041 by Shuggy on May 26, 2007 at 1:22 am

What the hull is a "parachurch organisation"? Are they jumping out of aeroplanes now?

Other Comments by Shuggy

31. Comment #45060 by Adrian on May 26, 2007 at 4:24 am

Graduates will be ideally placed for working in the UK's Faith Schools, won't they?

Isn't that what all this is about? Spend some of my immorally gained wealth from selling old cars, or whatever, in indoctrinating youth at every opportunity - including leisure activities and sports.

Other Comments by Adrian

32. Comment #45074 by myyzptlk on May 26, 2007 at 5:31 am

"What's a Christian sports worker when it's at home?" he asked. That's easy: Lion food.

Seriously, this course is an effort to garner more state subsidies for indoctrination and take yet another charitable activity hostage. Clearly, the Christians think that sports-oriented citizens are more gullible.

Other Comments by myyzptlk

33. Comment #45100 by jshuey on May 26, 2007 at 11:38 am

Other than the religious connection, I fail to grasp what the fuss is all about. Academia has always been rife with not-quite legitimate, and almost rigorous, subjects; Women's Studies, Black Studies, Theology, and Sociology come to mind immediately.

Other Comments by jshuey

34. Comment #45105 by slummingangel on May 26, 2007 at 11:58 am

What about a course for atheist sports workers?
what about a course for sports workers no matter your religious alliegience?

Other Comments by slummingangel

35. Comment #45108 by rabidchihauhau on May 26, 2007 at 12:03 pm

Christian sports:

100 meter Cross-Bearing
400 meter Cross-Bearing relay
Stone Throwing (1/2 pound stone)
Angel Wrestling
Field Gleaning (Team)
...

Other Comments by rabidchihauhau

36. Comment #45112 by Zelgadis on May 26, 2007 at 12:11 pm

Comment #44721 by konquererz

"Who ever heard of a real University having a degree in something so.... well.... pointless?"

Uh... I think we all have, they're called Theology Degrees. n_n

Other Comments by Zelgadis

37. Comment #45126 by scottishgeologist on May 26, 2007 at 12:58 pm

The article states: "It is designed to help Christians build community relations through sport."

Community relations? Whats that? Surely the wy to build relations between communities is to leave the religion out of it and let the sport do the talking! Sport is a great leveller - we only need to think of the famous football match in the first world war- link here: http://homeboynet.wordpress.com/2006/10/17/letter-documenting-historic-%E2%80%98wwi-christmas-truce-football-match%E2%80%99-found/

Otherwise, the only reason can be proselytising. As a Scot, I am well familiar with our own particular brand of "sport and religion" which manifests itslef at every Rangers Celtic game.I went to a typical Scottish secondary school where it was commonplace to sing sectarian songs - always related to the Rangers Celtic thing:

Such as ( variant on the Sash)

" My father was an Orangeman
in the bygone days of yore,
when they hung (sic) the Pope,
From an orange rope
in the sash my father wore"

or how about ( to the tune of "Marching through Georgia):


"Hullo, hullo, we are the Derry boys,
hullo, hullo, you can tell us by the noise,
Were up to our necks in Fenian blood
Surrender or you'll die
We are the Londonderry Boys
Fuck the Pope!"

Now you might think this is the stuff of Buckfast swilling neds at Ibrox. Think again. Top legal eagles are guilty of this. Such as Donald Findlay , QC. And you dont get higher up the Scottish legal system than that. Full story here:

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=594022005

Thats just one aspect of it. I didnt mention Marvin Andrews (Trinidad and Tobago) who played for Rangers for a bit. Apparently he believes that people can be resurrected from the dead. Arch-charismatic, born again nutjob, deluded to the nth degree. And guess what, Marvin Andrews features in the youth magazine of the Free Church of Scotland!!!!! Yes, David "Wee flea" Robertsons church.

Link here: (Its a pdf of the whole magazine so be patient)

http://www.freechurch.org/pdf/free/aprilmay07.pdf

Religion and Sport do NOT mix. Keep them separate. Please.....

Other Comments by scottishgeologist

38. Comment #45135 by Bonzai on May 26, 2007 at 1:44 pm

I am trying to figure out what is "Christian sport". I am thinking of activities like stone throwing, lion wrestling and competing to stay on the cross for the longest duration.. Somehow I think I maybe missing the point..

Other Comments by Bonzai

39. Comment #45189 by MelM on May 26, 2007 at 6:39 pm

The course description contains the phrase: "Building on applied theology..." I thought this was kinda funny.

It's just another way to spread the cancer around. Actually, this course looks like it belongs in Liberty U. Faith is a vice.

Other Comments by MelM

40. Comment #45193 by Bremas on May 26, 2007 at 7:30 pm

No one has mentioned jvc's (26) post yet. Had never seen that one before (was rolling), and is probably exactly what RD was referring too.

With a nod to Luthien.. can't get enough of Python.

edit... I guess that wasn't an own goal because it was the 2nd half??

Other Comments by Bremas

41. Comment #45199 by MelM on May 26, 2007 at 8:41 pm

We in the U.S. will not be outdone!!!

If you want the "skills necessary to lead others in growing faithfulness to God", here's the degree for you:
Bachelor's Degree in Recreation & Sports Ministry.

And, this is just the thing for you if you're into exporting the cancer by
Sending Believers Into All The World.

Other Comments by MelM

42. Comment #45261 by NMcC on May 27, 2007 at 2:53 am

Scottishgeologist,

Hailing as I do from Belfast's Shankill Road (though I don't live there now), I note that all your references allude to the religious bigotry of the Rangers fans - the protestants, in other words. Why so one-sided? Celtic has been just as bad with its pandering to the bigotry of its catholic supporters.

PS - You forgot to mention the notorious intervention in the religious politics of Scotland by that well-known theologian and expert in matters divine, 'Gazza', when he pretended to be playing the flute in an orange band.

Other Comments by NMcC

43. Comment #45414 by Cantaff on May 27, 2007 at 4:17 pm

Reminds me of a really old joke from back in the days when football had centre forwards and inside forwards, and Ian St. John played centreforward.

"What would you do if Jesus came to Liverpool?"
"Move St.John to inside right."

Other Comments by Cantaff

44. Comment #45417 by Luthien on May 27, 2007 at 4:46 pm

42. Comment #45261 by NMcC on May 27, 2007 at 2:53 am
Scottishgeologist,

Hailing as I do from Belfast's Shankill Road (though I don't live there now), I note that all your references allude to the religious bigotry of the Rangers fans - the protestants, in other words. Why so one-sided? Celtic has been just as bad with its pandering to the bigotry of its catholic supporters.

What's wrong, does it still hit a nerve when someone critisise the "tribe" you perceive yourself to be from? If we reasure you that the "other side" is just as bad, does it somehow make these things justifyable, or at least in some way excusable? If not, why do you feel the need to even mention the "other side"?

If you read Scotishgeologist's post again, you will see that he knows the words to the songs because that is the background he comes from.

You should take a long hard look at the thought processes that compelled you to post saying "but look, they are just as bad over there too, why didn't you point that out?" and realise that from the point of view of this site, catholics and protestants are on the same side, the side of irrationality and bigotry.

If you really want to hear catholics critisised, then hang around and read some of my posts. ;-)

Other Comments by Luthien

45. Comment #45423 by NMcC on May 27, 2007 at 5:18 pm

Luthien

Well, thanks for that.

Firstly, my post was tongue-in-cheek, as my reference to 'Gazza' makes obvious to anyone who can read.

Secondly, I don't consider myself to be from any 'tribe', religious or otherwise, as, indeed, any of my posts to this website will verify.

Thirdly, he does not 'know the words to the songs' since the correct words are 'Billy Boys', not 'Derry Boys' or 'Londonderry Boys'.

Fourthly, I do not need to take a look at my thought processes since I'm quite happy to report (not that it's any of your business) that despite my upbringing, I managed to overcome any religious indoctrination and have been a vociferous atheist all my adult life, certainly, unlike some, long before I ever heard of Dawkins.

And, finally, I'll be sticking around alright, but not to read any diatribes of yours - against catholics, or anyone else, even if the only alternative is to stick a fork in my eye. I don't know why I'm even bothering to reply to you since you're obviously a pretentious, self-righteous arsehole who can't even spell properly.

Other Comments by NMcC

46. Comment #45465 by scottishgeologist on May 27, 2007 at 11:42 pm

NMcC - maybe a bit of clarification needed here - I gave two examples of Rangers songs simply because like all the kids in my school we were all Rangers fans. OK, there was the odd Hearts fan or maybe even Partick Thistle, but it was overwhelmingly Rangers. Not because of any current bias that particular way!

And yes, the words are wrong - shows how silly the whole thing is, doesnt it?

The catholics had their own songs and chants - I never seemed to hear them so often however. Maybe a few visits to Parkhead would have sorted that one out!

When I was at school the hatreds were almost palpable. However, 30 years on, from what I gather on my visits home, its almost disappeared. I used to see "F*ck the Pope" and "F*ck the Queen" grafitti regularly. Always abbreviated to FTP / FTQ. Seldom see it now.

Surely a sign that that particular religious divide is disappearing. And a good thing too. But I wonder if the divide is disappearing because people are growing tolerant, or because of secularisation.

(As a complete aside, I was talking to a rather well known Rangers fan (not saying who he is!) about what was needed to put a web site together as he was interested - I mentioned that after creating the pages, he needed to "FTP" them up to the web server. You should have seen his ears prick up at that!!!)

Other Comments by scottishgeologist

47. Comment #45471 by NMcC on May 28, 2007 at 1:03 am

Scottishgeologist

Thanks for the clarification, though there was really no need. I did in fact post my comments in the way I suggested to 'Luthien' - tongue-in-cheek with, I suppose, a little bit of devils advocate thrown in.

Yes, I think the experiences of people in Scotland (especially Glasgow) are similar to those of people in Belfast and Northern Ireland in general. I believe the correct term is religious sectarianism. I think the football allegiance is only a consequence of the religious affiliation (which, in most cases, is purely nominal anyway as it's a consequence of being born into it), and the disgusting sectarian songs and chanting are a consequence of this in turn.

I was 'into' it all when I was a kid as that was the condition in which I was reared. I well remember as a fourteen year old travelling to Glasgow for the Orange march. I was lucky enough to be able to see through the nonsense at around age 17 or so, and have since looked upon the twin evils of nationalism and religion with utter contempt.

Funnily enough, I used to own a Bar which had Scottish loyalist visitors in July and my greatest joy was to discreetly slip on Dick Gaughan songs on the dukebox! Petty, or what! Well, we all have to do what gets us through the day. Luckily, our esteemed visitors were usually too stupid, or too drunk, or both to notice. For all their anti-catholicism, most of them couldn't tell the difference between a Chapel and an apple, and whenever I was asked whether I was in the Orange Order myself, I used to say, 'actually, I'm a militant atheist', whereupon I was invariably met with a blank, uncomprehending stare.

I think you're right about there being a general diminuition of the rabble rousing elements of the 'culture'. Even in Belfast, there is a general feeling that the whole hatred and opposing camps thing is bollocks. Of course, the most extreme representatives of the two factions are cosying up together as a career move, so hating each other is a bit unseemly at present.

Sinn Fein's Gerry Kelly has just said in an article in the Belfast Telegraph that had he been born a protestant rather than a catholic, he'd, of course, hold completely different views. I've sent a letter to the newspaper pointing out that Kelly wasn't BORN anything, that he inherited the nonsense of the catholic religion from his parents who, in turn, had inherited from theirs and so on. I don't know if they'll publish it.

Other Comments by NMcC

48. Comment #45478 by Luthien on May 28, 2007 at 1:38 am

45. Comment #45423 by NMcC on May 27, 2007 at 5:18 pm

Firstly, my post was tongue-in-cheek, as my reference to 'Gazza' makes obvious to anyone who can read.

Well obviously, since I am neither male, nor interested in football, I didn't get your little "joke" and thought you were being serious in criticising scotishgeologist (and given that assumption, I don't think what I said there was particularly pretentious, though I apologise if I came across as such).

I do think it was rather mean of you to pick on my spelling. I wrote that post at the weekend, when I didn't have access to a spellchecker (I was diagnosed with dyslexia at school, unfortunately far too late in life to do anything to about it).

Other Comments by Luthien

49. Comment #45479 by the great teapot on May 28, 2007 at 1:58 am

I was amazed to see Edwards has forsaken the Lord.
I always thought he jumped for Jesus.
A bit of googling confirmed the reports are true if not the facts.

A couple of interesting quotes from the article

"For convenience - and as a financial investment - Edwards has bought a flat near Westminster. Last week the flat and his home in Gosforth were besieged by journalists seeking to confirm rumours that his loss of Christian conviction had led him into the path of temptation."

Interesting. So loss of faith will lead you into temptation.The archaic view of atheism rears its head again.

"He has a deep, theological comprehension of the Bible, making his spiritual meltdown even more unlikely"

Apparently not.

I can only echoe a comment posted beneath the article "Welcome to the real world Jonathon."

And finally from the telegraph

"Such was Edwards's reputation as a great athlete and decent man that even officials at the world governing body, the International Association of Athletics Federations, would privately joke that if he ever tested positive for drugs, the sport's credibility would never survive."

For "decent man" read christian. Given the only thing that separates him from other honest athletes was his proclamations that he believed without evidence in a God who made him jump further than anyone.Now he is no longer a Xian perhaps we should be taking the piss and testing it.

Other Comments by the great teapot

50. Comment #45487 by NMcC on May 28, 2007 at 2:24 am

Luthien

Fair enough. Though I think you should perhaps be a bit more circumspect before replying to posts.

Sorry to hear about your condition. I hope it isn't too debilitating for you.

Other Comments by NMcC