Atheists for Jesus
The argument, like a good recipe, needs to be built up gradually, with the ingredients mustered in advance. First, the apparently oxymoronic title. In a society where the majority of theists are at least nominally Christian, the two words are treated as near synonyms. Bertrand Russell's famous advocacy of atheism was called Why I am not a Christian rather than, as it probably should have been, Why I am not a theist. All Christians are theists, it seems to go without saying.3. Comment #11517 by heymrrain on December 5, 2006 at 7:46 am
David,4. Comment #11614 by Sancus on December 6, 2006 at 12:30 am
Holy crap. I didn't know this article was going to be about the singularity!5. Comment #11982 by drbobsh on December 9, 2006 at 12:15 am
I wonder if human "super niceness" would have existed in prehistoric times (i.e., those times in which natural selection did actually apply to humans). Human "super niceness" would more likely be an artifact of our more advanced society. One then wonders if HSN is an emergent property of advanced intelligent societies, and/or a necessary condition for long term survival of a life form.6. Comment #28793 by michaelmichael on March 30, 2007 at 11:05 pm
Having reached an atheistic outlook, I began to wonder where logic would take me when re-examing the story of Jesus. If there is no God then Jesus must clearly have lied when he claimed to be the son of God. If the laws of physics are immutable then clearly Jesus, either alone or more likely in concert with others, was being deceitful when he claimed to have performed miraculous cures, resurrections and other miracles like walking on water.7. Comment #28807 by Shane McKee on March 31, 2007 at 3:12 am
8. Comment #28818 by DavidMcC on March 31, 2007 at 4:22 am
9. Comment #28830 by Enda80 on March 31, 2007 at 6:10 am
"If the laws of physics are immutable then clearly Jesus, either alone or more likely in concert with others, was being deceitful when he claimed to have performed miraculous cures, resurrections and other miracles like walking on water."10. Comment #28831 by Enda80 on March 31, 2007 at 6:17 am
Note that the Biblical Jesus did teach that unbelief in him would lead to damnation and that there was a Gehenna/Hell. The Biblical Jesus also taught the concept of evil, with the idea of the Devil and the end of days. These were not parables or symbolic, as rendering them symbolic leaves them meaningless, and besides, what do liberals use these stories to teach? Most people today encourage planning one's life, not waiting for the fortuitous deus ex machina (literal or figurative). The fact that liberals do not often use these passages only shows how little they recommend themselves for figurative interpretation.11. Comment #28832 by Enda80 on March 31, 2007 at 6:20 am
I also seriously doubt that the Biblical Jesus ever says that he thinks the stories from the Hebrew Bible are just myths or parables.12. Comment #30523 by Homo economicus on April 8, 2007 at 10:48 am
13. Comment #30529 by simplemind on April 8, 2007 at 12:19 pm
14. Comment #32120 by GreatCanadianAtheist on April 15, 2007 at 8:30 pm
Well I don't really think Jesus ever actually existed in any form, but I'm not sure, and I do agree that a lot of the things he was supposed to have said in the NT are pretty good moral lessons.15. Comment #32339 by TXS.R.D. on April 16, 2007 at 10:52 pm
16. Comment #35141 by FreeFromDelusion on April 26, 2007 at 10:29 am
17. Comment #35488 by TXS.R.D. on April 27, 2007 at 11:05 am
18. Comment #35491 by TXS.R.D. on April 27, 2007 at 11:17 am
19. Comment #37780 by Barak on May 5, 2007 at 4:53 pm
The doctrines attributed to Jesus are not ethical in the slightest - they merely encourage gross hypocrisy.20. Comment #38074 by TXS.R.D. on May 6, 2007 at 10:58 pm
21. Comment #40378 by michaelmichael on May 14, 2007 at 7:42 am
TXS.R.D. stated; "dismissing jesus as god has nothing to do with endorsing him as teacher". Fair comment, and yet I do choose to dismiss Jesus as a teacher.22. Comment #42757 by miguelcortes on May 19, 2007 at 11:25 am
Jesus was a cult leader. His group showed all the characteristics of a dangerous cult. His philosophy of passiveness and acceptance, might be good for helping very arrogant people in the short term, but in the long term you are creating an army of passive slaves. I don't think it's good to go to the extreme of super niceness, it's simply not in our best interest.23. Comment #48972 by Jabie on June 9, 2007 at 7:12 pm
'What was interesting and remarkable about Jesus was not the obvious fact that he believed in the God of his Jewish religion, but that he rebelled against many aspects of Yahweh's vengeful nastiness. At least in the teachings that are attributed to him, he publicly advocated niceness and was one of the first to do so. To those steeped in the Sharia-like cruelties of Leviticus and Deuteronomy...'24. Comment #64065 by flying goose on August 17, 2007 at 1:29 pm
25. Comment #64084 by ? on August 17, 2007 at 3:09 pm
26. Comment #71486 by psikeyhackr on September 18, 2007 at 9:53 pm
27. Comment #71490 by Roy_H on September 18, 2007 at 10:34 pm
28. Comment #71502 by Richard Morgan on September 19, 2007 at 12:15 am
Shane McKee:Could we achieve exponential amplification of the numbers of super nice people?We?
29. Comment #86011 by Yussy on November 7, 2007 at 8:19 pm
I don't think we necessarily need more 'nice' people in the world. But we could certainly do with more 'good' people.30. Comment #86012 by BAEOZ on November 7, 2007 at 8:25 pm
31. Comment #121056 by lilzilla on February 2, 2008 at 10:55 pm
The reason it's hard or difficult to spread niceness is that it's very easy to erroneously believe one is "nice", ignoring one's un-nice behaviour most of the time. As pointed out by some helpful curmudgeons in this very discussion, Jesus himself behaved cruelly and pettily at times. As Dr. Dawkins points out himself, people who believe themselves to be highly moral or good, but reason themselves into actions that hurt others. Plenty-- /plenty/ of Christians feel that following Jesus' teachings about being good to each other are just as important as belief in his divinity. Some of them fail and are horrible much of the time, but some of them succeed. If Dr. Dawkins is serious about spreading niceness, he would presumably consent to behaving nicely himself, which he has not shown an aptitude for in the past, nor here.32. Comment #214624 by J Mac on July 20, 2008 at 5:35 pm
33. Comment #252224 by piperhaven on September 22, 2008 at 3:58 pm
"Jesus probably didn't exist but if he were around today, he would be an atheist" Anybody see a rational flaw in this statement? If Jesus the man of the Gospels were around today he wouldn't be the man he was two thousand years ago unless he was transported magically through time. In which case I think he might be a trifle bemused. The only way he could make make judgements about the present world would be if he was, as is claimed, a supernatural being omnisciently aware of the history of the world.34. Comment #269183 by dharmapunk5 on October 22, 2008 at 5:52 pm
I have several problems with this article, I'll cover the main ones in this comment.35. Comment #298109 by gwm on December 6, 2008 at 10:30 pm
There seems to be a reoccuring opinion that Jesus not only was not "God" , but that he didn't even exist as an historical figure. I get why people have trouble believing the first part. The second part has got me scratching my head. For example, the quote36. Comment #352855 by davidhines on March 17, 2009 at 2:42 am
I like your idea of atheists for Jesus, for the reasons RD gives: (a) that atheism was not a live option for Jesus' time, but he took a lot of the nastiness out of theism, (b)that the number of people who spread niceness is a paradox. It seems to go far beyond kin selection and even the "trust everybody once" strategy.37. Comment #352865 by CaptainMandate on March 17, 2009 at 5:34 am
I am no memetic engineer
38. Comment #352869 by saugbrewer on March 17, 2009 at 6:50 am
39. Comment #352870 by CaptainMandate on March 17, 2009 at 7:01 am
40. Comment #352876 by BillySands on March 17, 2009 at 8:05 am
What was interesting and remarkable about Jesus was not the obvious fact that he believed in the God of his Jewish religion, but that he rebelled against many aspects of Yahweh's vengeful nastiness.
What's wrong with admitting that the idea of loving one's neighbor or treating others with respect is a good thing' Regardless of the context.
41. Comment #352881 by saugbrewer on March 17, 2009 at 8:32 am
42. Comment #352884 by CaptainMandate on March 17, 2009 at 8:45 am
43. Comment #352885 by BillySands on March 17, 2009 at 8:46 am
That doesn't make the ideas themselves worthless
44. Comment #352893 by gr8hands on March 17, 2009 at 9:21 am
When people ask "What Would Jesus Do?" I always reply: "Take up a scourge, beat people who are innocent of breaking any law, cause vandalism and property damage, and demand you hate your father and mother."45. Comment #352897 by MaxD on March 17, 2009 at 9:25 am
46. Comment #352909 by Mark Jones on March 17, 2009 at 9:50 am
47. Comment #352911 by CaptainMandate on March 17, 2009 at 9:56 am
48. Comment #352912 by irate_atheist on March 17, 2009 at 10:02 am
49. Comment #352917 by severalspeciesof on March 17, 2009 at 10:19 am
50. Comment #352924 by Old Sarum on March 17, 2009 at 10:54 am
Call me peculiar, but I don't actually like Jesus. In fact he's one of the aspects of Christianity I find least appealing, from a "human interest" point of view - an arrogant, self-righteous, self-important young hippy who wanders aimlessly around, expecting all and sundry to worship him and hang onto his every naive, hippy pronouncement. And I dislike his long, greasy hair and general appearance.
1. Comment #11376 by Andrew Charles on December 4, 2006 at 10:59 am
I agree with Prof Dawkins' sentiments...However, in the interests of science (and in this this case, historical truth) it must be said that we cannot talk anymore about Jesus as an historical figure if we are intellectually honest with ourselves. Professor Dawkins, I have a book entitled "Did Jesus Ever Live?" by L. Gordon Rylands printed in the 1930's. I have never heard of him nor have I been able to find a copy of this book anywhere. Perhaps you could find a copy in England, where the book originated, otherwise I would gladly send you mine!