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Saturday, December 29, 2007 | Science : Evolution and Biology | print version Print | Comments |

Document Could there be a Darwinian Account of Human Creativity?

by Daniel Dennett

Reposted from:
http://ase.tufts.edu/cogstud/papers/valencia.htm
Also see:
http://kenyonreview.org/blog/?p=679 (thanks to Norm at onegoodmove.org)

DANINTRODUCTION

Weaver birds create intricate nests; sculptors and other artists and artisans also create intricate, ingenious constructions out of similar materials. The products may look similar, and outwardly the creative processes that create those processes may look similar, but there are surely large and important differences between them. What are they, and how important are they? The weaverbird nestmaking is 'instinctual,' and 'controlled by the genes' some would say, but we know that this is a crude approximation of a more interesting truth, involving an intricate interplay between genetic variation, long-term developmental and environmental interaction and short-term environmental variation—in opportunities and materials accessible at the time of nest building. And on the side of the human creator, a similarly complex story must be told. Genes play some role surely (think of the likelihood of heritable differences in musical aptitude, for instance), but so do both long-term and short-term environmental interactions. The myth of the artist "blessed" by a spark of 'divine genius' is even cruder and more distorted than the myth of the birdnest as a simple product of a gene—as if it were a protein.

Our thinking about human creativity is pulled out of shape somewhat by a famous contrast introduced to the world by Darwin. One of his earliest—and most outraged—critics summed it up vividly:

In the theory with which we have to deal, Absolute Ignorance is the artificer; so that we may enunciate as the fundamental principle of the whole system, that, IN ORDER TO MAKE A PERFECT AND BEAUTIFUL MACHINE, IT IS NOT REQUISITE TO KNOW HOW TO MAKE IT. This proposition will be found, on careful examination, to express, in condensed form, the essential purport of the Theory, and to express in a few words all Mr. Darwin's meaning; who, by a strange inversion of reasoning, seems to think Absolute Ignorance fully qualified to take the place of Absolute Wisdom in all the achievements of creative skill. (MacKenzie1868)


Darwin's 'strange inversion of reasoning' promises—or threatens—to dissolve the Cartesian res cogitans as the wellspring of creativity, and then where will we be? Nowhere, it seems. It seems that if creativity gets 'reduced' to 'mere mechanism' we will be shown not to exist at all. Or, we will exist, but we won't be thinkers, we won't manifest genuine 'Wisdom in all the achievements of creative skill.' Whenever we zoom in on the act of creation, it seems we lose sight of it, the intelligence or genius replaced at the last instant by stupid machinery, an echo of Darwin's shocking substitution of Absolute Ignorance for Absolute Wisdom in the creation of the biosphere. Many people dislike Darwinism in their guts, and of all the ill-lit, murky reasons for antipathy to Darwinism, this one has always struck me as the deepest, but only in the sense of being the most entrenched, least accessible to rational criticism. There are thoughtful people who scoff at Creationism, dismiss dualism out of hand, pledge allegiance to academic humanism—and then get quite squirrelly when it is suggested that a Darwinian theory of creative intelligence might be in the cards, and might demonstrate that all the works of human genius can be understood in the end to be products of a cascade of generate-and-test procedures that are, at bottom, algorithmic, mindless. Absolute Ignorance? Artificial Intelligence? Fie on anybody who would thus put 'A' and 'I' together!

Besides, wouldn't a Darwinian theory of human creativity be covertly self-contradictory? The Darwinian mechanism of natural selection is famously mindless, purposeless, lacking all foresight and intention—the blind watchmaker (Dawkins 1986) If natural selection is 'the opposite' of God, a strange inversion of the traditional vision of creativity, then it must be 'the opposite' of us, too, since God is made in our image! Human creative endeavors are obviously both foresighted and purposeful, so, then, they are Darwinian processes. What could be more obvious?

But there is a tension, isn't there? A key part of Darwin's great revolution is that we are part of it. Human beings are just one species among many, fully biological, and hence capable of no miracles, restricted to the same sorts of processes and methods as the other species. Our creative processes are surely natural (not supernatural!), so in that bland sense they are as biological as the creative processes of the weaverbird and the beaver.

William Poundstone (1985) puts the inescapable challenge succinctly in terms of 'the old fantasy of a monkey typing Hamlet by accident.' He calculates that the chances of this happening are '1 in 50 multiplied by itself 150,000 times.'

In view of this, it may seem remarkable that anything as complex as a text of Hamlet exists. The observation that Hamlet was written by Shakespeare and not some random agency only transfers the problem. Shakespeare, like everything else in the world, must have arisen (ultimately) from a homogeneous early universe. Any way you look at it Hamlet is a product of that primeval chaos.'

CREDIT ASSIGNMENT FOR CREATIVITY

Where does all that Design come from? What processes could conceivably yield such improbable 'achievements of creative skill'? What Darwin saw is that Design is always both valuable and costly. It does not fall like manna from heaven, but must be accumulated the hard way, by time-consuming, energy-consuming processes of mindless search through 'primeval chaos', automatically preserving happy accidents when they occur. This broadband process of Research and Development is breathtakingly inefficient, but—this is Darwin's great insight—if the costly fruits of R and D can be thriftily conserved, copied, stolen, and re-used, they can be accumulated over time to yield 'the achievements of creative skill.' 'This principle of preservation, I have called, for the sake of brevity, Natural Selection.' (Darwin 1865)

There is no requirement in Darwin's vision that these R and D processes run everywhere and always at the same tempo, with the same (in-)efficiency. If we think of design work as lifting in Design Space (an extremely natural and oft-used metaphor, exploited in models of hill-climbing and peaks in adaptive landscapes, to name the most obvious and popular applications), then we can see that the gradualistic, frequently back-sliding, maximally inefficient basic search process can on important occasions yield new conditions that speed up the process, permitting faster, more effective local lifting ( Maynard Smith and Szathmary 1995). Call any such product of earlier R and D a crane, and distinguish it from what Darwinism says does not happen: skyhooks (Dennett 1995). Skyhooks, like manna from heaven, would be miracles, and if we posit a skyhook anywhere in our 'explanation' of creativity, we have in fact conceded defeat.

What, then, is a mind? The Darwinian answer is straightforward. A mind is a crane, made of cranes, made of cranes, a mechanism of not quite unimaginable complexity that can clamber through Design Space at a giddy—but not miraculously giddy—pace, thanks to all the earlier R and D, from all sources, that it exploits. What is the anti-Darwinian answer? It is perfectly expressed by one of the 20th century's great creative geniuses (though, like MacKenzie, he probably didn't mean by his words what I intend to mean by them).
Je ne cherche pas; je trouve.
—Pablo Picasso


Picasso purports to be a genius indeed, someone who does not need to engage in the menial work of trial and error, generate-and-test, R and D; he claims to be able to leap to the summits of the peaks—the excellent designs—in the vast reaches of Design Space without having to guide his trajectory (he searches not) by sidelong testing at any way stations. As an inspired bit of bragging, this is non pareil, but I don't believe it for a minute. And anyone who has strolled through an exhibit of Picasso drawings (as I recently did in Valencia, while attending the conference that led to this volume) looking at literally dozens of variations on a single theme, all signed--and sold—by the artist, will appreciate that whatever Picasso may have meant by his bon mot, he could not truly claim that he didn't engage in a time-consuming, energy-consuming exploration of neighborhoods in Design Space. At best he could claim that his own searches were so advanced, so efficient, that it didn't seem—to himself—to be design work at all. But then what did he have within him that made him such a great designer? A skyhook, or a superb collection of cranes? (I have been unable to discover the source of Picasso's claim, which is nicely balanced by a better known remark by a more down-to-earth creative genius, Thomas Edison: 'Genius is one per cent inspiration and ninety-nine per cent perspiration.' (1932))

We can now characterize a mutual suspicion between Darwinians and anti-Darwinians that distorts the empirical investigation of creativity. Darwinians suspect their opponents of hankering after a skyhook, a miraculous gift of genius whose powers have no decomposition into mechanical operations, however complex and informed by earlier processes of R and D. Anti-Darwinians suspect their opponents of hankering after an account of creative processes that so diminishes the Finder, the Author, the Creator, that it disappears, at best a mere temporary locus of mindless differential replication. We can make a little progress, I think, by building on Poundstone's example of the creation of the creator of Hamlet. Consider, then, a little thought experiment.

Suppose Dr. Frankenstein designs and constructs a monster, Spakesheare, that thereupon sits up and writes out a play, Spamlet. Who is the author of Spamlet? First, let's take note of what I claim to be irrelevant in this thought experiment. I haven't said whether Spakesheare is a robot, constructed out of metal and silicon chips, or, like the original Frankenstein's monster, constructed out of human tissues—or cells, or proteins, or amino acids, or carbon atoms. As long as the design work and the construction were carried out by Dr. Frankenstein, it makes no difference to the example what the materials are. It might well turn out that the only way to build a robot small enough and fast enough and energy-efficient enough to sit on a stool and type out a play is to construct it from artificial cells filled with beautifully crafted motor proteins and other carbon-based nanorobots. That is an interesting technical and scientific question, but not of concern here. For exactly the same reason, if Spakesheare is a metal-and-silicon robot, it may be allowed to be larger than a galaxy, if that's what it takes to get the requisite complication into its program—and we'll just have to repeal the speed limit for light for the sake of our thought experiment. These technical constraints are commonly declared to be off-limits in these thought experiments, so so be it. If Dr. Frankenstein chooses to make his AI robot out of proteins and the like, that's his business. If his robot is cross-fertile with normal human beings and hence capable of creating what is arguably a new species by giving birth to a child, that is fascinating, but what we will be concerned with is Spakesheare's purported brainchild, Spamlet. Back to our question: Who is the author of Spamlet?

In order to get a grip on this question, we have to look inside and see what happens in Spakesheare. At one extreme, we find inside a file (if Spakesheare is a robot with a computer memory) or a basically memorized version of Spamlet, all loaded and ready to run. In such an extreme case, Dr. Frankenstein is surely the author of Spamlet (unless we find there is a Ms. Shelley who is the author of Dr. Frankenstein!), using his intermediate creation, Spakesheare, as a mere storage-and-delivery device, a particularly fancy word processor. All the R and D work was done earlier, and copied to Spakesheare by one means or another. Now look at the other extreme, in which Dr. Frankenstein leaves most of the work to Spakesheare. The most realistic scenario would surely be that Spakesheare has been equipped by Dr. Frankenstein with a virtual past, a lifetime stock of pseudo-memories of experiences on which to draw while responding to its Frankenstein-installed obsessive desire to write a play. Among those pseudo-memories, we may suppose, are many evenings at the theater, or reading books, but also some unrequited loves, some shocking close calls, some shameful betrayals and the like. Now what happens? Perhaps some scrap of a 'human interest' story on the network news will be the catalyst that spurs Spakesheare into a frenzy of generate-and-test, ransacking its memory for useful tidbits and themes, transforming—transposing, morphing—what it finds, jiggling the pieces into temporary, hopeful structures that compete for completion, most of them dismantled by the corrosive processes of criticism that nevertheless expose useful bits now and then, and so forth, and all of this multi-leveled search would be somewhat guided by multi-level, internally generated evaluations, including evaluation of the evaluation . . . .of the evaluation functions as a response to evaluation of . . . the products of the ongoing searches.

Now if the amazing Dr. Frankenstein had actually anticipated all this activity down to its finest grain at the most turbulent and chaotic level, and had hand-designed Spakesheare's virtual past, and all its search machinery, to yield just this product, Spamlet, then Dr. Frankenstein would be, once again, the author of Spamlet, but also, in a word, God. Such Vast (not literally infinite, but Very much more than Astronomical—Dennett 1995, p109) foreknowledge would be simply miraculous. Restoring a smidgen of realism to our fantasy, we can consider a rather less extreme position and assume that Dr. Frankenstein was unable to foresee all this in detail, but rather delegated to Spakesheare most of the hard work of completing the trajectory in Design Space to one literary work or another, something to be determined by later R and D occurring within Spakesheare itself.

REAL ARTIFICIAL CREATORS

We have now arrived in the neighborhood of reality itself, for we already have actual examples of impressive artificial authors that vastly outstrip the foresight of their own creators. Nobody has yet created an artificial playwright worth serious attention, but an artificial chess player—IBM's Deep Blue—and an artificial composer—David Cope's EMI—have both achieved results that are, in some respects, equal to the best that human creative genius can muster.

Who beat Garry Kasparov, the reigning World Chess Champion? Not Murray Campbell or any of his IBM team. Deep Blue beat Kasparov. Deep Blue designs better chess games than any of them can design. None of them can author a winning game against Kasparov. Deep Blue can. Yes, but. Yes, but. I am sure many of you are tempted to insist at this point that when Deep Blue beats Kasparov at chess, its brute force search methods are entirely unlike the exploratory processes that Kasparov uses when he conjures up his chess moves. But that is simply not so—or at least it is not so in the only way that could make a difference to the context of this debate about the universality of the Darwinian perspective on creativity. Kasparov's brain is made of organic materials, and has an architecture importantly unlike that of Deep Blue, but it is still, so far as we know, a massively parallel search engine which has built up, over time, an outstanding array of heuristic pruning techniques that keep it from wasting time on unlikely branches. There is no doubt that the investment in R and D has a different profile in the two cases; Kasparov has methods of extracting good design principles from past games, so that he can recognize, and know enough to ignore, huge portions of the game space that Deep Blue must still patiently canvass seriatim. Kasparov's 'insight' dramatically changes the shape of the search he engages in, but it does not constitute 'an entirely different' means of creation. Whenever Deep Blue's exhaustive searches close off a type of avenue that it has some means of recognizing (a difficult, but not impossible task), it can re-use that R and D whenever it is appropriate, just as Kasparov does. Much of this analytical work has been done for Deep Blue by its designers, and given as an innate endowment, but Kasparov has likewise benefitted from hundreds of thousands of person-years of chess exploration transmitted to him by players, coaches and books. It is interesting in this regard to contemplate the suggestion recently made by Bobby Fischer, who proposes to restore the game of chess to its intended rational purity by requiring that the major pieces be randomly placed in the back row at the start of each game (random, but mirror image for black and white). This would instantly render the mountain of memorized openings almost entirely obsolete, for humans and machines alike, since only rarely would any of this lore come into play. One would be thrown back onto a reliance on fundamental principles; one would have to do more of the hard design work in real time—with the clock running. It is far from clear whether this change in rules would benefit human beings more than computers. It all depends on which type of chess player is relying most heavily on what is, in effect, rote memory—reliance with minimal comprehension on the R and D of earlier explorers.

The fact is that the search space for chess is too big for even Deep Blue to explore exhaustively in real time, so like Kasparov, it prunes its search trees by taking calculated risks, and like Kasparov, it often gets these risks pre-calculated. Both presumably do massive amounts of 'brute force' computation on their very different architectures. After all, what do neurons know about chess? Any work they do must be brute force work of one sort or another.

It may seem that I am begging the question in favor of a computational, AI approach by describing the work done by Kasparov's brain in this way, but the work has to be done somehow, and no other way of getting the work done has ever been articulated. It won't do to say that Kasparov uses 'insight' or 'intuition' since that just means that Kasparov himself has no privileged access, no insight, into how the good results come to him. So, since nobody knows how Kasparov's brain does it—least of all Kasparov—there is not yet any evidence at all to support the claim that Kasparov's means are 'entirely unlike' the means exploited by Deep Blue. One should remember this when tempted to insist that 'of course' Kasparov's methods are hugely different. What on earth could provoke one to go out on a limb like that? Wishful thinking? Fear?

But that's just chess, you say, not art. Chess is trivial compared to art (now that the world champion chess player is a computer). This is where David Cope's EMI comes into play (Cope, 2001 ; Dennett 2001 c). Cope set out to create a mere efficiency-enhancer, a composer's aid to help him over the blockades of composition any creator confronts, a high-tech extension of the traditional search vehicles (the piano, staff paper, the tape recorder, etc.). As EMI grew in competence, it promoted itself into a whole composer, incorporating more and more of the generate-and-test process. When EMI is fed music by Bach, it responds by generating musical compositions in the style of Bach. When given Mozart, or Schubert, or Puccini, or Scott Joplin, it readily analyzes their styles and composes new music in their styles, better pastiches than Cope himself—or almost any human composer—can compose. When fed music by two composers, it can promptly compose pieces that eerily unite their styles, and when fed, all at once (with no clearing of the palate, you might say) all these styles at once, it proceeds to write music based on the totality of its musical experience. The compositions that result can then also be fed back into it, over and over, along with whatever other music comes along in MIDI format, and the result is EMI's own 'personal' musical style, a style that candidly reveals its debts to the masters, while being an unquestionably idiosyncratic integration of all this 'experience.' EMI can now compose not just two-part inventions and art songs but whole symphonies—and has composed over a thousand, when last I heard. They are good enough to fool experts (composers and professors of music) and I can personally attest to the fact that an EMI-Puccini aria brought a lump to my throat—but then, I'm on a hair trigger when it comes to Puccini, and this was a good enough imitation to fool me. David Cope can no more claim to be the composer of EMI's symphonies and motets and art songs than Murray Campbell can claim to have beaten Kasparov in chess.

To a Darwinian, this new element in the cascade of cranes is simply the latest in a long history, and we should recognize that the boundary between authors and their artifacts should be just as penetrable as all the other boundaries in the cascade. When Richard Dawkins (1982) notes that the beaver's dam is as much a part of the beaver phenotype—its extended phenotype—as its teeth and its fur, he sets the stage for the further observation that the boundaries of a human author are exactly as amenable to extension. In fact, of course, we've known this for centuries, and have carpentered various semi-stable conventions for dealing with the products of Rubens, of Rubens' studio, of Rubens' various students. Wherever there can be a helping hand, we can raise the question of just who is helping whom, what is creator and what is creation. How should we deal with such questions? To the extent that anti-Darwinians simply want us to preserve some tradition of authorship, to have some rules of thumb for determining who or what shall receive the honor (or blame) that attends authorship, their desires can be acknowledged and met, one way or another (which doesn't necessarily mean we should meet them). To the extent that this is not enough for the anti-Darwinians, to the extent that they want to hold out for authors as an objective, metaphysically grounded, 'natural kind', they are looking for a skyhook.

DOES THE AUTHOR DISAPPEAR?

There is a persistent problem of imagination management in the debates surrounding this issue: people on both sides have a tendency to underestimate the resources of Darwinism, imagining simplistic alternatives that do not exhaust the space of possibilities. Darwinians are notoriously quick to find (or invent) differences in genetic fitness to go with every difference they observe, for instance. Meanwhile, anti-Darwinians, noting the huge distance between a beehive and the St. Matthew Passion as created objects, are apt to suppose that anybody who proposes to explain both creative processes with a single set of principles must be guilty of one reductionist fantasy or another: 'Bach had a gene for writing baroque counterpoint just like the bees' gene for forming wax hexagons' or 'Bach was just a mindless trial-and-error mutator and selector of the musical memes that already flourished in his cultural environment.' Both of these alternatives are nonsense, of course, but pointing out their flaws does nothing to support the idea that ('therefore') there must be irreducibly non-Darwinian principles at work in any account of Bach's creativity. In place of this dimly imagined chasm with 'Darwinian phenomena' on one side and 'non-Darwinian phenomena' on the other side, we need to learn to see the space between bee and Bach as populated with all manner of mixed cases, differing from their nearest neighbors in barely perceptible ways, replacing the chasm with a traversable gradient of non-minds, protominds, hemi-demi-semi minds, magpie minds, copycat minds, aping minds, clever-pastiche minds, 'path-finding' minds, 'ground-breaking' minds, and eventually, genius minds. And the individual minds, of each caliber, will themselves be composed of different sorts of parts, including, surely, some special-purpose 'modules' adapted to various new tricks and tasks, as well as a cascade of higher-order reflection devices, capable of generating ever more rarefied and delimited searches through pre-selected regions of the Vast space of possible designs.

It is important to recognize that genius is itself a product of natural selection and involves generate-and-test procedures all the way down. Once you have such a product, it is often no longer particularly perspicuous to view it solely as a cascade of generate-and-test processes. It often makes good sense to leap ahead on a narrative course, thinking of the agent as a self, with a variety of projects, goals, presuppositions, hopes, . . . . In short, it often makes good sense to adopt the intentional stance (Dennett, 1971, 1987) towards the whole complex product of evolutionary processes. This effectively brackets the largely unknown and unknowable mechanical microprocesses as well as the history that set them up, and puts them out of focus while highlighting the patterns of rational activity that those mechanical microprocesses track so closely. This tactic makes especially good sense to the creator himself or herself, who must learn not to be oppressed by the revelation that on close inspection, even on close introspection, a genius dissolves into a pack rat, which dissolves in turn into a collection of trial-and-error processes over which nobody has ultimate control.

Does this realization amount to a loss—an elimination—of selfhood, of genius, of creativity? Those who are closest to the issue—the artistic and scientific geniuses who have reflected on it—often confront this discovery with equanimity. Mozart (in an oft-quoted but possibly spurious passage--see Dennett 1995, p346-7) is reputed to have said of his best musical ideas: 'Whence and how do they come? I don't know and I have nothing to do with it.' The painter Philip Guston is equally unperturbed by this evaporation of visible self when the creative juices start flowing:
When I first come into the studio to work, there is this noisy crowd which follows me there; it includes all of the important painters in history, all of my contemporaries, all the art critics, etc. As I become involved in the work, one by one, they all leave. If I'm lucky, every one of them will disappear. If I'm really lucky, I will too.

Resistance to extending Darwinian thinking into human creativity and human culture is not restricted to closet Creationists and anti-scientific humanists. Two highly visible Darwinian spokespersons—Stephen Jay Gould and Steven Pinker—who agree on precious little else, find common ground in their doubts about this:

I am convinced that comparisons between biological evolution and human cultural or technological change have done vastly more harm than good--and examples abound of this most common of intellectual traps. . . . . Biological evolution is powered by natural selection, cultural evolution by a different set of principles that I understand but dimly.
(Gould 1991, p.63.)

To say that cultural evolution is Lamarckian is to confess that one has no idea how it works. The striking features of cultural products, namely their ingenuity, beauty, and truth (analogous to organisms' complex adaptive design), come from the mental computations that 'direct'--that is, invent--the 'mutations,' and that 'acquire'--that is, understand--the 'characteristics.' (Pinker 1997, p209)


Pinker has imputed the wrong parallel; it is not Lamarck's model, but Darwin's models of unconscious and methodical (artificial) selection (as special cases of natural selection) that accommodate the phenomena he draws to our attention in this passage (Dennett 2001b). And it is ironic that Pinker overlooks this, since the cultural phenomena he himself has highlighted as examples of evolution-designed systems, linguistic phenomena, are almost certainly not the products of foresightful, ingenious, deliberate human invention. Some designed features of human languages are no doubt genetically transmitted, but many others--such as changes in pronunciation, for instance--are surely culturally transmitted, and hence products of cultural, not genetic, evolution.

CONCLUSION

The cranes of human culture didn't just open up Design Space; they opened up perspectives on Design Space that permitted 'directed' mutation, foresighted mutation, reflective mutation, both in cultural and, most recently, genetic innovation. This nesting of different processes of natural selection now has a new member: genetic engineering. How does it differ from the methodical selection of Darwin's day? It is less dependent on the pre-existing variation in the gene pool, and proceeds more directly to new candidate genomes, with less overt trial and error. Darwin (1865, p38) had noted that in his day, Man can hardly select, or only with much difficulty, any deviation of structure excepting such as is externally visible; and indeed he rarely cares for what is internal. But today's genetic engineers have carried their insight into the molecular innards of the organisms they are trying to create. There is ever more accurate foresight, but even here, if we look closely at the practices in the laboratory, we will find a large measure of exploratory trial and error in their search of the best combinations of genes. (In fact, biochemists and molecular biologists are finding that artificial evolutionary processes are more efficient R and D procedures than their foresightful hand-work efforts by orders of magnitude. In other words, they are finding that the breeding of domesticated micro-organisms and polymers is the best way to conduct their creative searches.)

Are the products of genetic engineering 'Darwinian' products? They are produced not by blind or random trial-and-error variation, but by highly intelligent, guided, foresightful processes. Nevertheless these processes are themselves the products of earlier design work accomplished by Darwinian R and D, and if we look closely at the microprocesses that compose their current, local search, we will still find plenty of instances of random (undesigned, chaotic) generation of candidates for further scrutiny.

It may seem, however, that we have now passed the Pickwickian limits of Darwinian orthodoxy. Does a Darwinian gloss actually supplement or adjust the traditional intellectualist ways of thinking? I think it does, because without the steady pressure of the Darwinian 'strange inversion of reasoning,' it is all too tempting to revert to the old essentialist, Cartesian perspectives. For instance, there is always the temptation, often succumbed to, to establish 'principled' boundaries, or to erect a polar contrast between insightful and blind processes of search, as we saw in the unsupportable assertion that Kasparov's methods are fundamentally unlike Deep Blue's. If Deep Blue's methods are ultimately 'blind and mechanical,' then so, ultimately, are Kasparov's—his neurons are as blind and mechanical as any circuit board. The foresighted, purposeful breeding of domesticated plants and animals is obviously not a damning counterexample to Darwin's theory of natural selection as a foresightless, purposeless process, because his theory shows (as we are beginning to learn) how such foresight and purpose could itself evolve by blind natural selection. Kasparov's creative genius (or Bach's or Shakespeare's) is for the same reason no counterexample to the Darwinian theory of creativity, but rather one of the most recent blooms on the tree of life that we still need to account for in Darwinian terms.

FURTHER READING

Campbell, D.T. 1960. Blind variation and selective retention in creative thought as in
other knowledge processes. Psychological Review 67: 380—400.
Mithen, S. J. 1998, ed. Creativity in human evolution and prehistory. London; New York: Routledge, 1998.
Mithen, S. J. 1996. The Prehistory of the Mind: The Cognitive Origins of Art, Religion and Science, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
Toulmin, Stephen. 1972. Human Understanding. Volume 1: The Collective Use and Development of Concepts. Oxford: Clarendon Press

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS
Portions of this paper are drawn from Dennett, 2001a. I have been unable to locate the source of Philip Guston's quote, but I have found much the same remark attributed to the composer, John Cage, a close friend and contemporary of Guston's, who [is said to have] said this about painting: 'When you are working, everybody is in your studio‑the past, your friends, the art world, and above all, your own ideas‑all are there. But as you continue painting, they start leaving, one by one, and you are left completely alone. Then, if you are lucky, even you leave.' Like all other creators, Guston and I like to re-use what we find, adding a few touches from time to time.

REFERENCES

Cope, D., 2001, Virtual Music: Computer Synthesis of Musical Style. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.
Darwin, C. 1859. On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection. London: Murray. (page numbers as in Harvard Univ. Press facsimile edn.)
Dawkins, R. 1982. The Extended Phenotype. Oxford and San Francisco: Freeman.
Dawkins, R. 1986. The Blind Watchmaker, London: Longmans.
Dennett, D. C. 1971, Intentional Systems, Journal of Philosophy, 68, pp87‑106.
Dennett, D. C. 1987, The Intentional Stance, MIT Press, Cambridge, MA.
Dennett, D. C. 1995. Darwin's Dangerous Idea. New York: Simon & Schuster.
Dennett, D. C. 2001a. In Darwin's Wake, Where am I? (Presidential Address, Eastern Division, American Philosophical Association, December 29, 2000) in Proceedings of the APA, and also in Cambridge Companion to Darwin, ed. Radick et al., Cambridge: Cambridge Univ. Press.
Dennett, D. C. 2001b, The Evolution of Culture, in The Monist 84, no. 3, Peru, Illinois (special issue on cultural evolution, ed. D. Sperber), pp 305‑324.
Dennett, D. 2001c, Collision Detection, Muselot, and Scribble: Some Reflections on Creativity, in Cope 2001, pp283-291.
Edison, T. 1932, interview in Life, ch. 24 (according to the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations).
Gould, S. J. 1991. Bully for Brontosaurus, New York: Norton.
Mackenzie, R. B. 1868. The Darwinian Theory of the Transmutation of Species Examined. (published anonymously 'By a Graduate of the University of Cambridge') London: Nisbet & Co. (Quoted in a review, Athenaeum, no 2102. Feb 8, p217.).

Maynard Smith, J. and Szathmary, E. 1995. The Major Transitions in Evolution. Oxford: Freeman.
Pinker, S., 1997. How the Mind Works. New York: Norton.
Poundstone, W. 1985. The Recursive Universe: Cosmic Complexity and the Limits of Scientific Knowledge. New York: Morrow.

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1. Comment #104807 by Haikuin on December 29, 2007 at 1:45 pm

Dan is simply amazing. Something I've been trying to say for years, in various ways, has finally been said by a Higher Authority. Which somehow proves the point... ;)

Other Comments by Haikuin

2. Comment #104809 by Seamus Reason on December 29, 2007 at 1:50 pm

 avatarWhew and wow.

Two offbeat observations.

Though certainly not affecting Dennetts' reasoning, Deep Blue's human team was accused of "assisting" the computer's logic core during breaks and refused to show its logs. Cranes for the crane?

Regarding Dawkins and the mentioning of beavers, I'm reminded of a funny and well thought out letter:

http://www.spapo.de/s292.html

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3. Comment #104819 by Atticus_of_Amber on December 29, 2007 at 2:21 pm

 avatarWow!

THIS is why I think Dennett is the most sophisticated and profound of the "New Anti-Dogmatists".

I seldom come away from reading a Dennett piece without having my thinking shaken up and shifted.

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4. Comment #104823 by robotaholic on December 29, 2007 at 2:28 pm

 avatarThat was simply awesome Seamus Reason! I had to book mark it.

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5. Comment #104833 by LorienRyan on December 29, 2007 at 3:32 pm

 avatarDaniel Dennett is a great writer and has inspired me in much of my own thoughts and reasoning. If Darwinism is true then there is no reason why it cannot be used as a basis, at least, to account for human creativity, or indeed creativity in any sense. Also, just because it is possible creativity can be reduced to a darwinian, materialistic explanation does not mean that a beautiful symphony or painting cannot move me. In fact, the scientific explanations of things move me just as much as the things themselves - so I am in heaven!

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6. Comment #104837 by _J_ on December 29, 2007 at 3:58 pm

 avatarIt's very good to see Dennet patiently and accessibly illuminating the subtlety and power of Darwinian evolution. So many discussions with anti-Darwinians founder on their clunky conception of what Darwinian evolution is, and their certainty that it cannot apply to phenomena that it in fact handles beautifully. It is invaluable to have well-written pieces like this to refer to, quite apart from the pleasure of digesting such fascinating material in the first place.

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7. Comment #104839 by jo5ef on December 29, 2007 at 4:14 pm

This comment: "without the steady pressure of the Darwinian 'strange inversion of reasoning,' it is all too tempting to revert to the old essentialist, Cartesian perspectives" accords closely with my own view. Darwin gave us the tools to develop The "bottom up" vs "top down" view of creation, and we need to use them to generate satisfying alternative explanations of any phenomena previusly considered inaccessaible to scientific explanation. For instance, I would use a similar argument as Dennet has used here for instance against the Paleys watch argument - after all, no single person designed the hypothetical watch found by Paley - any timepiece is a product of a massive cultural design space search involving various selective pressures.

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8. Comment #104852 by panajache69 on December 29, 2007 at 5:26 pm

 avatarWhen a fresh batch of Steinway pianos leaves the factory, nobody knows which ones will become prized concert pianos. The great pianos only become apparent after they been played in the field for some time. Given that the pianos cannot act or think, I think this tells us something about the curious accident of events and environments that goes into great artistic outcomes. Human creativity is likely a happy accident between heredity, education, environment and powerful stimulation. Perhaps we have chaos to thank more than natural selection.

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9. Comment #104857 by Steve Zara on December 29, 2007 at 6:43 pm

I am not sure if I really agree with this article. OK, so who am I to disagree? But, it is fun to discuss such things, so if you will be patient with me....

First of all, it contains this:

Kasparov's brain is made of organic materials, and has an architecture importantly unlike that of Deep Blue, but it is still, so far as we know, a massively parallel search engine which has built up, over time, an outstanding array of heuristic pruning techniques that keep it from wasting time on unlikely branches.


This seems so trivially true that I can't see it providing any useful context, other than "the brain contains no magic". However, there are many types of ways that parallel systems can be hooked up, and this can result in quite different (and unexpected) behaviour. [As someone who has been involved in the development of distributed parallel software a long time ago, I know this from experience].

It is certainly clear that the brain is the result of Darwinian selection, but it is not clear, I believe, that all processes within it could be described in such terms. There are situations in computational systems where Design can fall "like manna from heaven", such as the amazingly complex patterns that can appear from simple cellular automata rules. You can get significant changes in function from minor changes in state or structure, and those changes can feed back in distinctly non-Darwinian ways. For example, considering just the biological system, if someone has an epileptic fit, that fit does not slowly "evolve"; it can come pretty much out of the blue. The same might be the way that flashes of inspiration work.

I would have thought it more appropriate to consider the brain an organ produced by Darwinian evolution that can perform information storage and processing, just like the eye has been evolved by Darwinian evolution for vision. But just as the actual focussing of light is simply optics, the processing of information of the brain, and the way thoughts and ideas appear and interact need not be anything particularly Darwinian.

we need to learn to see the space between bee and Bach as populated with all manner of mixed cases, differing from their nearest neighbors in barely perceptible ways, replacing the chasm with a traversable gradient of non-minds, protominds, hemi-demi-semi minds, magpie minds, copycat minds, aping minds, clever-pastiche minds, 'path-finding' minds, 'ground-breaking' minds, and eventually, genius minds.


I can see no justification in believing that there is going to be a traversable gradient of minds. There is certainly going to be a traversable gradient of possible brains, but that is not the same thing at all (even though I realise Dennett is not talking about the evolutionary path between bee and Bach). All it takes is for one small change in brain structure and that can result in a dramatically different mind, and we have no way of knowing if intermediates between the minds before and after that change are possible. The functioning of minds is part of the phenotype. Phenotypes can change discontinuously and dramatically.

So, perhaps this article is stretching "Darwinism" too far. Darwinism is a process of gradual change through post-development phenotype selection, resulting in those changes being passed on to the next generation. Thoughts could appear and change in quite different, non-Darwinian, way in both meat and machine minds.

On the other hand, I may have missed the point entirely. That happens.

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10. Comment #104861 by catchy_nick on December 29, 2007 at 7:03 pm

JESUS IS LORD!! REPENT!!! THIS IS ALL DEVIL TALK!! REPENT!

In all seriousness, this man is amazing.

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11. Comment #104862 by prettygoodformonkeys on December 29, 2007 at 7:05 pm

 avatarI love Dan! How did he so eloquently explain (without explaining) that knowledge only works for us monkeys (chimpanzees, whatever) on our level, and ignorance is how everything else.... just happens?

More mysterious still: why does this make me happy?

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12. Comment #104877 by tribalypredisposed on December 29, 2007 at 9:32 pm

I am with you here Steve. The article does little for me, basically it re-states the popular premise that there is no magic in the brain while adding some substantial confusion by using the term Darwinian for something that is not really very similar as a process.

Culture passes along whether it enhances fitness or is maladaptive to the organism. Europeans did not bathe or eat apples for hundreds of years, leaching lead to many premature deaths, in extreme cases culture leads entire groups to kill themselves or engage in suicidal wars. Dennet seems to confuse the scientific process with cultural change, and the two are incredibly different. There is not really a process of testing and choosing in the arts, in culture in general. While Mozart gained approval by millions for the culture he produced, so too has Brittany Spears and sometimes those even considerably less talented and creative than her.

There is a "better" answer in chess and to some extent in classical music which is highly math friendly. Evolution involves finding "better" answers to environmental challenges. Culture is not a process of "better." Hamlet is a great play but every year there are Harlequin romance novels that are widely read too, and in what way do we pretend to judge which is "better?"

Far more convincing for me would be an actual description of how culture evolved, how it was selected for by evolution, as a start and then show how it functions in modern society. No small task and one he did not attempt, but one which I have taken a stab at myself.

It all starts with group size for me. Where competition for resources is partially occuring at the group level, group size is a huge factor in determining relative fitness of each group. Limiting size is the ability to bond through grooming, which takes considerable time (Dunbar), and the limits of relatedness which also keeps group size to about 40 before it no longer makes mathematical sense to favor fellow in-group. Being able to have a cohesive group of 150 instead of 40 would be a considerable advantage for the group members, but it requires a whole lot of changes.

Language, as Robin Dunbar has observed, allows far more efficient bonding. If we stop bonding by grooming then we need to not have fur, since without grooming it will be highly maladaptive. With such a large group dominance by a sole male or small group of males as in chimp society is likely to be unstable too often. There are just too many males involved and the constant fighting would be destructive to the group fitness; if infants were killed after every coup the group would self-destruct.

But beyond these, a new mechanism of defining the group has to evolve. If not kinship, then what? A group has to define who they are, and who they are not. For most of our evolutionary past there were not a lot of real differences between groups..."the group that uses fire and stone axes" does not work to define your in-group when that is what every group does. The answer was culture; some often random change in dress, some new accent of language, some new God to worship, some new songs and stories and beliefs. Evolution selected for culturally defined groups so that we could gain the fitness benefit of greater group size.

I will attempt the second part of this, how it seems to come from some unknown source within us and how we may be thought to have some real "free will" later, best if I explain the above more first if any of you all are interested.

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13. Comment #104887 by dragonfirematrix on December 29, 2007 at 10:29 pm

 avatarOkay. I admit being a bit slow due to my naturally selected (genetically preset) biological mental input absorption rate of 56k, but I still enjoy Daniel Dennett's commentary and find his post thought provoking. I wish I could express myself half as well as Mr. Dennett.

I would love to hear Mr. Dennett debate with the likes of Sean Hannity, or Bill O'Reilly on any issue. Such a nationally televised event would surely result in national chatter of profoundly enlightening proportions.

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14. Comment #104893 by 82abhilash on December 29, 2007 at 10:40 pm

Reading Dennett gives me a head ache. It is pretty intense and demands a lot of attention.

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15. Comment #104895 by sillysighbean on December 29, 2007 at 10:43 pm

Reading this man is a humbling experience, I feel like a five year old trying to comprehend an algebra lesson. I appreciate his lectures, he does not talk down to you, and presents concepts that normal people like me can understand, but he really soars in this article. I am just smart enough to know that he is a genius.

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16. Comment #104899 by hayesky on December 29, 2007 at 11:04 pm

 avatarThat Dam stuff is hilarious!

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17. Comment #104902 by hayesky on December 29, 2007 at 11:06 pm

 avatarYou could never explain this stuff to your average believer, they wouldn't have the patience to actually listen. They prefer to leave all that complicated stuff to God.

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18. Comment #104909 by beeline on December 30, 2007 at 12:01 am

 avatar
I have been unable to discover the source of Picasso's claim, which is nicely balanced by a better known remark by a more down-to-earth creative genius, Thomas Edison: 'Genius is one per cent inspiration and ninety-nine per cent perspiration.' (1932)


As much as I know Picasso (which is admittedly little) I know that this quotation is a regular bedfellow of one of his others, framed along somewhat similar lines:
If you know exactly what you are going to do, what is the point of doing it?

This is essentially an intellectual stance about what creativity - and art generally - is, in his opinion. Picasso didn't mean that he didn't do any 'searching in design space' - quite the opoosite, in fact. He meant that the process of creating (his) art was less about thinking of an idea and then executing it perfectly, as it was about wandering almost aimlessly, in a Zen-like state of openess and trial and error, until stumbling upon the thing that he was 'supposed to create', and then working on it until it shone.

It combined openness of mind - preparedness to accept and nurture creative inspiration when it comes - with accidental discovery as the random seed.

The point he was trying to make was that to be original in art, which is something he strove for (and wrote about) all his life, you can't have pre-conceived ideas in your mind, or you will just follow the other artists whose ideas will inevitably fill your mind. Obviously you will suffer from this, as a human being, but you must *try* to get rid of them and strike out on your own, which, you could argue, he did with more success than most humans.

So in a way he was both very 'wandering randomly through design space' - almost to the point of purposefully forsaking any pre-existing paths that he came across - but then also very 'R and D' when the moment seized him. Not something that fits well with any one evolutionary argument.

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19. Comment #104910 by PacificWind on December 30, 2007 at 12:01 am

Steve and tribaly...

By the time I finished reading the article, I was also confused about what Dennett meant by "Darwinian." But reading over it again, it makes more sense. At the very beginning, he describes the Darwinian explanation for the creation of a bird's nest as

involving an intricate interplay between genetic variation, long-term developmental and environmental interaction and short-term environmental variation–in opportunities and materials accessible at the time


I think that is also what he means when he labels human activities as "Darwinian." We are generally used to that word being synonymous with evolution through natural selection, but I think Dennett is using it in a more general sense. As you have both noted, it basically means "no magic." While such a statement is obvious to most of us here, Dennett seems to be targeting this piece at those in the art/literature world, hence his dismissal of the "spark of genius" mentality.

So Steve, while I agree with your comments on the importance of self-organization in the brain, I don't think that Dennett meant, by calling the brain's algorithms Darwinian, that thoughts necessarily "evolve" gradually. You suggest that a "flash of inspiration" could occur suddenly, "out of the blue" - I assume you mean as a result of self-organized pattern formation through feedback mechanisms. I would argue that prerequisites for such an occurrence are the gene-controlled construction of the brain, its programming through long-term developmental and environmental interaction, and the activation of a certain logical pathway by certain environmental inputs - basically, what Dennett defines as Darwinian.

I'll admit I can't really follow his comments on cultural evolution, especially his critique of Pinker. I just got hold of one of Pinker's books, so maybe reading it will shed some light on their disagreement. If anyone here has some insight, I'd be happy to read it.

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20. Comment #104916 by Steve Zara on December 30, 2007 at 12:55 am

Pacific Wind:

So Steve, while I agree with your comments on the importance of self-organization in the brain, I don't think that Dennett meant, by calling the brain's algorithms Darwinian, that thoughts necessarily "evolve" gradually.


I see what you mean. I was a bit unclear about what Dennett actually did mean. I think Dennett was may have been saying was that "ways of thinking" evolve gradually, but I can't see any reason to accept that. A slight change in brain structure or "programming" can produce quite new modes of thought and experience.

I would argue that prerequisites for such an occurrence are the gene-controlled construction of the brain, its programming through long-term developmental and environmental interaction, and the activation of a certain logical pathway by certain environmental inputs - basically, what Dennett defines as Darwinian.


I am not questioning at all the the prequisites evolved in a Darwinian fashion. I am not so sure about the environmental interactions though. Part of that environmental interaction would include the introduction of ideas from others, and the idea that such "memes" behave in a Darwinian fashion is yet to be shown.

Anyway... makes me want to read more Pinker too!

Other Comments by Steve Zara

21. Comment #104921 by oriole on December 30, 2007 at 2:46 am

I've just started reading the article, and I can already see it's going to be another consciousness-raising experience courtesy of Dan Dennett.

But one early question: in the paragraph near the beginning of the essay that teasingly begins "Besides, wouldn't a Darwinian theory of human creativity be covertly self-contradictory", shouldn't the next-to-last sentence, intended to express the typical thinking of people who suffer from Darwin-aversion, have ended with the words "so, then, they are [not] Darwinian processes"? (My insertion). I think the original text unintentionally omitted the word "not".

Or am I missing something?

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22. Comment #104924 by Timmeh! on December 30, 2007 at 2:56 am

 avatareric, I think professor Dennet is saying:

Inspiration, genius, invention and creativity are the result of natural processes, not some form of "magic" internal or external to the brain.
The structures in the brain that arrived at those natural processes were arrived at by natural selection.
It is likely, since no other reasonable, non-supernatural, hypothesis has yet been proposed, that the processes that arrive at these moments of genius are analogous to a computer program performing a brute force, trial and error simulation of all possible outcomes, and choosing the one the seems best.
Genuinely designed things are not arrived at by natural selection, but the processes that enabled the designer to design them were.

Or have I missed the point anyone?

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23. Comment #104927 by phil rimmer on December 30, 2007 at 3:46 am

 avatar
There are situations in computational systems where Design can fall "like manna from heaven"


But punctuated equilibrium and cladogenesis are Darwinian compatible ideas that cover this surely?

That there are lacunae of stable systems (small and large)in a morass of chaotic, unstable possibilities does not in any way count against them being "discovered" by an essentially Darwinian process.

What frustrates me about this article (but perhaps not in the book that will surely follow) is an absence of the delineation of the neural processes that could lead to evolved thoughts. High level conscious thinking is not a problem. Memes work for me. It is the unconscious thinking that is the issue.

Maybe this is what you're talking about, Steve. You wake up with the solution to a problem suddenly available to you. A lot of problem solving seems to work like that for me.

The question is, how "executive" is unconscious thought? Is it simply conscious thought where we've somehow failed to remember the context of the thought? This untagged thought, perhaps, is less generally accessible to us but may be accessed at critical moments when a bunch of self-consistent such thoughts become available and get worked through with uncanny ease and familiarity.

(Reading my own writings from even just a few months ago I am astonished at the unfamiliarity of some of the ideas in there. I can't remember ever thinking such thoughts.)

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24. Comment #104930 by TeapotTheist on December 30, 2007 at 4:05 am

 avatarSteve wrote:
I think Dennett was may have been saying was that "ways of thinking" evolve gradually, but I can't see any reason to accept that. A slight change in brain structure or "programming" can produce quite new modes of thought and experience.

That second sentence of yours is a good parallel to how biological evolution creates "new modes" - so I think that should be reason enough to accept!

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25. Comment #104939 by Dr Patrick on December 30, 2007 at 4:54 am

 avatarJust a guess, but maybe a single Darwinian explanation is not possible. Maybe it is more a case of Darwinian explanations.

Creativity arguably comes in two parts:

1. Succeeding at a given task not directly related to survival.

2. The seeking out of new tasks.

So a two part solution may provide an answer.

1. An instinct to increase our standing within a group (and the associated sense of achievement) must be a valuable survival trait for a tribal species such as ours.

Building on this foundation, one of the easiest ways to gain status is specialisation. Which is as true today, as it was when the first human found he had a knack for making the best spears.

This gives success at abstract actions a survival value.

2. Being the first spear maker is good, being the second, not so much. Survival of the fittest kicks in once more and both suffer due to the competition within the newly founded sub-tribe.

But if that second spear maker, instead makes huts or catches fish, he becomes the default alpha male in a sub-tribe of one.

So the inquisitive seeking out of new creative avenues (specialisation) also carries a value to survival.

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26. Comment #104947 by phil rimmer on December 30, 2007 at 5:52 am

 avatarDr. Patrick

I think you have some of the elements.

Being the first spear maker is good, but not very. Who knows how to use it? Being a better spear maker is great. You have a partially educated market and a better product. (Marconi, Edison, Bell etc. came second and won.) Useful creations evolved. True (initiating) innovators rarely achieve status or reward.

So why do they do it? Well, I think its akin to your first point, "succeeding at a given task not directly related to survival". If necessity is the mother of invention I think the father is PLAY.

In my mind play is inextricably linked to creativity. I think it no accident that the great mushrooming of inventiveness in England in the eighteenth century coincided with the advent of modern childhood when great numbers of preteens from the new "middling" classes were relieved of the obligation to work and educated and indulged with toys and newly written children's books. Educators could be surprisingly enlightened, believing that education should "delight the mind" as much as instruct.

Play was a proper pursuit for children and the opportunity to try and fail without consequence, but for the fun in trying, set the stage for a period of super-creativity.

What is the cause of the opportunity to play? Surplus wealth. Spare time. And in earlier times? Already being successful hunter gatherer apes.

Other Comments by phil rimmer

27. Comment #104949 by Steve Zara on December 30, 2007 at 6:07 am

That second sentence of yours is a good parallel to how biological evolution creates "new modes" - so I think that should be reason enough to accept!


I don't think so, as we are talking about higher levels of organisation. This is not just about brains creating new modes of thinking. It is about those modes of thinking interacting and creating further thoughts and ideas, and so on.

Dennett puts it well: It is cranes lifting cranes and so on. My point is that, as yet, we have no justification for claiming that anything but the first set of cranes (the neural substrate) is strictly Darwinian.

Phil:

I am not really distinguishing between conscious and unconscious. What I am not at ease with is the use of the term Darwinian. There are other ways that patterns of processing can potentially appear and interact that don't involve a Darwinian process at all.

But punctuated equilibrium and cladogenesis are Darwinian compatible ideas that cover this surely?


I don't think so.

That there are lacunae of stable systems (small and large)in a morass of chaotic, unstable possibilities does not in any way count against them being "discovered" by an essentially Darwinian process.


It does not count against this, but neither does it seem to me to support it in any way.

It seems to be that the brain is simply an evolved arena in which thoughts can happen. Until we have far, far more detail about how thoughts happen and how they change and interact, it seems to me to be highly premature to label this "Darwinian", which means something far more specific than "selecting what is best".


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28. Comment #104956 by AfraidToDie on December 30, 2007 at 6:40 am

 avatar
..whatever Picasso may have meant by his bon mot, he could not truly claim that he didn't engage in a time-consuming, energy-consuming exploration of neighborhoods in Design Space. At best he could claim that his own searches were so advanced, so efficient, that it didn't seem–to himself–to be design work at all. But then what did he have within him that made him such a great designer? A skyhook, or a superb collection of cranes?

No doubt Picasso's R&D took place over the many years as a child growing up (superb collection of cranes), and his skill/art was so developed that his adult works appeared to need no R&D?

LorienRyan: just because it is possible creativity can be reduced to a darwinian, materialistic explanation does not mean that a beautiful symphony or painting cannot move me. In fact, the scientific explanations of things move me just as much as the things themselves - so I am in heaven!

If others would not be "moved" by specific areas of creativity, perhaps there would be no evolution within those areas? If there was no interest by other humans in one area, would that creativity be transferred into another area (ex. Painting to architecture)?

What is the difference between a savant and a Forrest Gump (ninety-nine per cent perspiration)? Does either possess creativity or are they more like Deep Blue? I suppose this is what DD is saying?

dragonfirematrix: I would love to hear Mr. Dennett debate with the likes of Sean Hannity, or Bill O'Reilly on any issue. Such a nationally televised event would surely result in national chatter of profoundly enlightening proportions.

I respect DD a lot, and enjoy his thoughtful commentary, but I don't think his skills in debate are up to RD, Hitch, or Sam Harris, even though he always adds another unique and insightful perspective to rational discussion.

Other Comments by AfraidToDie

29. Comment #104957 by digitalia on December 30, 2007 at 6:46 am

 avatarFrom Dr. Pat:
___________
"Creativity arguably comes in two parts:

1. Succeeding at a given task not directly related to survival.

2. The seeking out of new tasks.

So a two part solution may provide an answer."
___________

Add to that possibly 3. the "succeeder" given an elevated status for their initial discovery(s) and their new ideas, inventions and concepts being opened more eager acceptance.

Ever think that Picasso, Edison, Newton or the first spear designer/thrower were set on a certain pedestal from the fame of one creation or another, therefore giving other creations after a sort of stamp of "pre-approval"? Not sure what Darwinian model that follows, perhaps we shouldn't be looking for so many EXACT parallels between the two theories. Or am I reading the discussion to literally?

Great article and discussion though! So glad I have Dennett's last book, it definitely warrants a re-read - now that I think I figured out HOW to read him (patience is a virtue).

And I love that he gives props to John Cage!

(PS: how do you do those funky quote boxes on here??)

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30. Comment #104960 by Dr Patrick on December 30, 2007 at 6:54 am

 avatarPhil Rimmer

In today's society, sure, marketing is everything. But in the case of the first spear maker, I would imagine all the hunters had spears and knew what they were for. The breakthrough came when the talented spear maker swapped his spears for meat rather than hunting himself.

IE: creativity providing sustenance without the energy outlay of hunting.

As for PLAY, I would say that pretty much sums up the process of my 2nd part. Testing solutions against none critical problems.

But calling it play, doesn't explain why we have the urge to play, which is what I've tried to do.

I agree totally that the opportunity for free time that surplus wealth provides makes a huge difference for progress, but it still doesn't answer why we bother.

The quest for specialisation (identifying new specialties and succeeding at it) is the same thing as creativity, and specialisation is how we have flourished as a species.

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31. Comment #104961 by Richard Morgan on December 30, 2007 at 7:05 am

In 1972 Dr Anthony Storr published a book that I found totally fascinating, but which horrified many of my "artistic" friends : "The Dynamics of Creation." Using words like introversion", "neurosis" and "psychopathology" he tries to explain in a very rational way what Leonardo da Vinci had already said centuries before : "All great art is born of inner conflict."
The shock-horror reaction of many creative artists was mainly due to a natural aversion to anything that resembles reductionism : "It's only chemicals in the brain that make you feel passionately in love" etc.
The human race has lived for so long with the need for awe and mystery that we feel we are being robbed of something precious when a simple explanation seems to explain away something important. (The "God" notion is very handy here, of course.)
I sense that one of our problems could resemble something which we criticise the Fundies for - they see God in everything, from the creation of the universe to the weather forecast.
We seek, and generally find, evolutionary explanations for nearly everything. Well, for guys like Dawkins and Dennett, you could say that's their job. But inasmuch as natural selection is only concerned with the survival of the species (favouring the ability to attain reproductive status) rather than the quality there's a whole pile of stuff going on that neither helps nor hinders the evolutionary processes.
Being able to give birth is very useful for the survival of a species, but giving birth painfully is neither here nor there.
(Sorry, my Fundy friends, I'd almost forgotten that God had cursed Eve :I will greatly increase your pains in childbirth; in pain you will bear children.)
Do we really need to find evolutionary advantages in all artistic creativity? I think not.
Dennett provides us with some elegant reasoning which could explain the mechanisms used in artistic creation, and that is all fascinating stuff..
I was equally fascinated the first time I read Freud's 23rd Introductory Lecture on Psychoanalysis:
An artist is once more in rudiments an introvert, not far removed from neurosis. He is oppressed by excessively powerful instinctual needs. he desires to win honour, power, wealth, fame and the love of women, but he lacks the means for achieving these satisfactions. Consequently, like any other unsatisfied man, he turns away from reality, and transfers all his interest, and his libido too, to the wishful constructions of his life of phantasy, whence the path might lead to neurosis.

Art, like shit, happens. It's what human beings do. Natural selection provides the tools but not necessarily the raisons d'ętre
Waddya think?

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32. Comment #104962 by phil rimmer on December 30, 2007 at 7:08 am

 avatar
Until we have far, far more detail about how thoughts happen and how they change and interact, it seems to me to be highly premature to label this "Darwinian", which means something far more specific than "selecting what is best".


I appreciate your caution here. "Darwinian" brings a lot of baggage, I'm sure a lot may prove totally inappropriate.

Where do you stand on memes and evolutionary processes? In coining the idea of memes Dawkins was moderately cautious not to ascribe too much to the genetic parallel. If creativity existed only at this highest level of conscious and expressible ideas, could Darwin be reasonably invoked? I realize this wouldn't necessarily cover pre-linguistic or pre-symbolic thinking, (the raven fashioning a metal hook from wire to retrieve a reward, for instance).

Like you I struggle to see evolution in strictly neurological processes. Hebbian learning, apoptosis, reinforcement etc. have no discernible copying mechanism for starters.

I still can't get your idea that you can get a lot of Design very quickly from an arrangement of simple elements and that this is an argument against its achievement through evolutionary means. Sorry. Brain in post sunday lunch mode.

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33. Comment #104963 by Dr Patrick on December 30, 2007 at 7:09 am

 avatarDigitalia

I think your 3rd part is an emergent result of the first two, but does a valuable job of highlighting their value.

Before specialisation, a male was the best hunter and that was it. There was only one way to provide.

Specialisation meant a specific skill could outweigh brut force and a spear maker could access more food than some of the better hunters.

This would provide inspiration for all the sub-par hunters to find a specialty of their own.

This also raises an interesting issue as to whether our big brains drove specialisation or vice versa.

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34. Comment #104966 by phil rimmer on December 30, 2007 at 7:28 am

 avatar
But calling it play, doesn't explain why we have the urge to play, which is what I've tried to do.


It is extraordinary how playful animals are, mammals disproportionately so, higher mammals more and apes and dolphins arguably the most. Successful animals play. It combines both rehearsal of physical skills safely with an early form of scientific investigation, (look how slippy this mud is).

Skinner showed some aspects of how behaviour is learned, specifically positive reinforcement (negative works too but less well). Trying things out often leads to pleasurable results. Getting to the pleasure quicker leads the evolution of more effective play. Quite incidentally the skills lead to enhanced survival and are selected for.

Thats why I say the true innovators do it for childlike pleasure. The exploiters do it for increased social capital. I also believe market forces existed in neolithic times, but maybe I watched the Flintstones too much as a kid.

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35. Comment #104973 by lbq on December 30, 2007 at 8:09 am

A propos of the amazing geometry of the honeycomb, Karl Marx once remarked that "the crucial difference between the worst of architects, and the best of bees, is that the human architect raised his building in his imagination, before he raised it in reality."

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36. Comment #104975 by Steve Zara on December 30, 2007 at 8:24 am

I appreciate your caution here. "Darwinian" brings a lot of baggage, I'm sure a lot may prove totally inappropriate.


Yes, that really is what I am saying.

Where do you stand on memes and evolutionary processes? In coining the idea of memes Dawkins was moderately cautious not to ascribe too much to the genetic parallel. If creativity existed only at this highest level of conscious and expressible ideas, could Darwin be reasonably invoked? I realize this wouldn't necessarily cover pre-linguistic or pre-symbolic thinking, (the raven fashioning a metal hook from wire to retrieve a reward, for instance).


I just don't know, although I am rather skeptical. Memes just seem too vague and error-prone in their replication to be labelled Darwinian. I think Dawkins' caution about this was appropriate, and it is why I am uneasy about Dennett bringing in Darwinism. There may be a parallel here between memes and abiogenesis. The situation before life truly got started could have been rather disorganised and error-prone replicators. There would have been selection of sorts, but all kinds of interactions between replicators could have been possible. However, we would not have called it true Darwinian evolution. That had to wait for something more stable and accurate in its replication.

I am not sure the conscious/unconscious distinction is that important. That we may be conscious of some information processing, and may feel like we can make decisions may not be that important in understanding the mechanisms.

I still can't get your idea that you can get a lot of Design very quickly from an arrangement of simple elements and that this is an argument against its achievement through evolutionary means. Sorry. Brain in post sunday lunch mode.


It can happen in information processing systems. Cellular automata are a useful example, I think. You can get a lot complexity from apparently nothing (the complexity is, in a sense, discovered rather than evolved).

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37. Comment #105007 by Jayday on December 30, 2007 at 10:22 am

Wow, this is truly one of the best, thought provoking articles published on the web site! Dennett always makes us stretch. I always welcome the reach.

I've particularly enjoyed Steve Zara and Phil Rimmer's discussion. I am not an expert on computer processing and brain function. But I want to throw this into the pot.

I came to recognize myself as an atheist through the work of Daniel Dennett. Dennett and then Dawkins lead me to fully appreciating the significance of Darwin. For me the peak or pivotal "connection" was fully realizing the significance and ramifications of the fact that, as an undisputed part of the universe, the human mind and cognitive behaviors are generated within the same universe or "system." How we generate thoughts, emotions, and perceptions of reality is not "outside" the natural process of physical and therefore psychological evolution. There is nothing supernatural, nothing outside the natural world. The brain generates the mind. The brain was formed and continues to form via evolution.

The question: Is there anything or any other "system" other than Darwinian? When you are discussing whether you think something should or should not be attributed to Darwin, is that even possible? If the basis of life processes is Darwinian (evolution by natural selection), is there anything underlying that? Is there any other type of natural crane?

I am going to paraphrase something written by Matt Ridley. Ridley had been discussing human evolution and our branching off from previous species.

Ridley asks that if evolution generates new species by mechanisms that are in part random (meaning that the mechanisms are blind, lack intention etc. as Dawkin's puts it), should human existence be ascribed just to a long sequence of random events? Charles Darwin answered this question in his book the "Descent of Man." He said, yes, but with a reservation. Darwin said, "Man has risen to the summit of the organic scale though not through his own exertion, yet some pride in the result would be excusable." One might ask, why so, if no human exertion was involved? Darwin went on to explain that man's powers of sympathy, benevolence, and intellect is what made the difference. Though evolution through natural selection depends in part by "blind" processes, it is shaped by the environment in which each species struggles to survive. And, for social species like ours, one of the most important features of the environment, is our own cultural society. So to the extent that people have shaped their own cultural society, they have in part determined the conditions of their own evolution. The full nature of this interaction between culture and evolution is not yet clear.

Ultimately, I can't separate evolution from culture anymore than I can separate the mind from the brain when I consider at base that it all springs from a single process. Complex yes, but separate? I can't see anything outside of the natural system defined by Darwin. Anyone else have other ideas about this? I am open to other non-religious ideas and perspectives.

I am grateful that Dennett via his study of consciousness is making strides to ask questions, open the way to make bridges between the brain and what the brain generates...the mind...and what the mind generates...culture.

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38. Comment #105009 by Artifactorfiction on December 30, 2007 at 10:27 am

I believe Post 24 by Timmeh summarises DD's position in this article best - 'Inspiration, genius, invention and creativity are the result of natural processes, not some form of "magic" internal or external to the brain. The structures in the brain that arrived at those natural processes were arrived at by natural selection.'

I've read a good deal of Pinker and Dennett and can thoroughly recommend both authors. Pinker is a much easier read but then he concentrates on the mechanics of thinking, (and refuses to go into consciousness and free will (surprisingly holding out for a skyhook in Dennett's view)), whereas Dennett is whole-heartily committed to explaining Consciousness itself and the associated free will issues.

Basically they both do a great job at what they have set out to do.

The realisation that there is no 'real' free will is even more profound than the realisation that there is no God (by some orders of magnitude) but equally enlightening when you get past the shock.

If you are into all the Consciousness stuff, Daniel M. Wegner's "The Illusion of Conscious Will" is an excellent read - much less philosophical than Dennett, but essentially covering similar ideas from the perspective of researched Psychology.

Anyway, I'm meandering off subject

(Apologies if this posts twice - I keep getting logged out when I post anything :)

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39. Comment #105015 by Steve Zara on December 30, 2007 at 10:32 am

The realisation that there is no 'real' free will is even more profound than the realisation that there is no God (by some orders of magnitude) but equally enlightening when you get past the shock.


I have to admit I am still not convinced of this. One of the reasons is that I am not that sure of what "free will" really means.

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40. Comment #105024 by Artifactorfiction on December 30, 2007 at 11:19 am

Hi Steve - I am compelled to reply (Sorry - bad freewill joke)

From my view things only work if you assume that we have free will, but that doesn't mean its real.

What happens (what you decide to do in any particular circumstance) is a ultimately a function of the physics and chemistry (taking place in structures 'designed' by billions of years of Natural selection and then modified through life by life's experiences). And great fun it is too.

But the 'as if' free will still has consequences - stealing an example from Pinker I think;

Scenario I
Assume there is no free will
Person A kills person B
Why blame B - he had no choice?

Scenario II
Assume there is no free will but that we have 'as if' free will and assume there are ethical/legal situations that we need to live by (or things just fall to bits)
Pass law that murder is illegal
Person A kills person B
Blame B because he knew the rules (and should have used this information to modify his behaviour)

B did the act but had no free will so why should he go to jail?
But blame still accrues as B knew the rules (for example C may have just as good a reason to kill A but realises that its deemed wrong by 'society' in general and feared the punishments (social and custodial))

All very grey area stuff

So where do the ethics actually come from?
God? (haha)
Society (I'll concede partially)
but I think we can thank our friend Natural Selection for instilling in us Good (and Bad).

Both helped our genes through evolutionary history - Kindness, empathy, compassion, understanding etc engender trust and reciprocal altruism and undoubtedly have helped humanity as a whole - Blood thirsty vindictive nastiness have had there place too through evolutionary history and we can be sure that dispositions relating to these behaviours have also been selected for. Assuming there is Free will (even if there isn't) and that we have laws and relevant fair punishments for breaking those laws is the only way to ensure that the Intelligent machines (such as humans) can decide not too do a particular behaviour (murder for example).

So in summary I think you have to work with the assumption that folks are free to decide their actions and thus liable for reward/punishment for their actions as this itself has a positive effect on the choice of those actions even if there isn't actually a real meaning to the term 'Free will'

I'm sure I've said this badly and will be misunderstood etc - I'm trying to condense thousands of pages of wisdom from smarter people than me in a few words.

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41. Comment #105037 by Artifactorfiction on December 30, 2007 at 12:40 pm

Hi Radesq

No you're right - I've digressed way of the point - Sorry - Originally I was just trying to agree with Post 24 by Timmeh [ 'Inspiration, genius, invention and creativity are the result of natural processes, not some form of "magic" internal or external to the brain. The structures in the brain that arrived at those natural processes were arrived at by natural selection.'] and also suggest that Dennett and Pinker's stuff generally was well worth the read.

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42. Comment #105040 by Steve Zara on December 30, 2007 at 12:42 pm

From my view things only work if you assume that we have free will, but that doesn't mean its real.


A very sensible attitude.

What happens (what you decide to do in any particular circumstance) is a ultimately a function of the physics and chemistry (taking place in structures 'designed' by billions of years of Natural selection and then modified through life by life's experiences). And great fun it is too.


I think that may be a premature summary of things.

I am beginning to sympathise with Peter Atkins about all this. Philosophising may be a waste of time: perhaps we should leave science to find out the answers. Talk about free will reminds me somewhat of philosophers and theologists discussing the issue of "first cause" after the discoveries of Einstein and Planck and the work of Heisenberg and Godel. Causality can become problematic in some circumstances as a result of their achievements. In the same way, it may be hugely premature to talk of free will before we have a deeper understanding of time, of consciousness, of qualia (yes, I do believe there may be something to be taken into account regarding qualia; I confess I am a David Chalmers fan). I don't think we mere humans know enough about reality right now to say anything one way or the other.

I'm sure I've said this badly and will be misunderstood etc - I'm trying to condense thousands of pages of wisdom from smarter people than me in a few words.


I can sympathise. I do the same. I think you have expressed things well.

Regarding your last two paragraphs:

I asked my partner, who is far more educated about these things (and brighter than me) about what he thought of the issue of free will, and he came up with the following answer:

"It doesn't matter. If we have free will, then we can believe whatever we wish about free will. If we don't have free will, then we have no choice about whether we believe or not."

Eventually, I stopped trying to think about what he said, for fear of developing a headache.

But my conclusion is that I agree with you. Assume you have free will. That will always work. If you have free will to choose, then you will be right. If you don't have free will, then you have no choice anyway.


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43. Comment #105048 by Artifactorfiction on December 30, 2007 at 12:54 pm

Excellent riposte :)

Irrefutable in fact - but still I like to muse and read, and Dennett has me convinced - i.e. I believe qualia are imagined in my mind, but so is everything in my mind including me :)

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44. Comment #105052 by keith on December 30, 2007 at 1:10 pm

 avatarHaikuin,
Dan is simply amazing. Something I've been trying to say for years, in various ways, has finally been said by a Higher Authority. Which somehow proves the point... ;)
Ahh, so you beat Dan Dennett to the thought, if not to the expression of the thought. Still, it's the thought that counts, I suppose. Incidentally, I actually beat Richard Dawkins to the idea of memes, though he expressed it far better than I could. And I also beat Alan Turing to the idea of the computer. Still, he was simply amazing for expressing what had been on my mind all along. There but for my lack of ability to express myself properly and a doctoral seat went I.

Just out of curiosity, what 'point' is proven by all this? That praise of others is sometimes used as a vehicle for praising oneself?

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45. Comment #105060 by Artifactorfiction on December 30, 2007 at 1:27 pm

Dennett is saying that Natural Selection can create a creative being

I think his point is some moderate religious folk don't believe in Darwinism over God as an explanation of life because they can't see how such a process can lead to creative beings. Dennett's just saying that this isn't so.

I could be wrong - this is just my interpretation

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46. Comment #105062 by Steve Zara on December 30, 2007 at 1:33 pm

Dennett is saying that Natural Selection can create a creative being

I think his point is some moderate religious folk don't believe in Darwinism over God as an explanation of life because they can't see how such a process can lead to creative beings. Dennett's just saying that this isn't so.

I could be wrong - this is just my interpretation


I have to admit to being unsure about this, but I think he is saying more. I think he is saying that creative thoughts themselves also arise in a Darwinian manner, and not just the ability to have them. The issue is that some people try to claim that creative thoughts arise from some special process, even though they may concede that potentially creative beings can arise naturally (as in "Bach was a child of Nature, but his musical gifts came from God").

My concern is that Dennett is attempting to describe the way that creative thoughts arise, and develop in individuals and cultures, in a Darwinian way. My view is that there are many ways that such thoughts can arise and develop that are not Darwinian, but entirely naturalistic.

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47. Comment #105068 by krisking on December 30, 2007 at 1:51 pm

But my conclusion is that I agree with you. Assume you have free will. That will always work. If you have free will to choose, then you will be right. If you don't have free will, then you have no choice anyway.



You could do that with the idea of God, too!

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48. Comment #105069 by Steve Zara on December 30, 2007 at 1:57 pm

You could do that with the idea of God, too!


Ah, but which God?

Free will or not free will is a binary choice. The choice of God is less defined. In order to know which God I am choosing or rejecting, I would want a lot of detail!

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49. Comment #105070 by Billy Coconut on December 30, 2007 at 2:00 pm

I may very well be missing the point...and straighten me out if so...but doesn't the selection, application and reordering of genetically and environmentally inherited information involve freewill and creativity?

Freewill implies Will and will implies conscience. Freewill therefore is incompatible with the Darwinian doctrine of Natural Selection working blindly upon blind mutations.

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50. Comment #105073 by Artifactorfiction on December 30, 2007 at 2:02 pm

Hi Steve

Hmmm - I'll re-read the article in case I have misunderstood, but as a quick comeback in lieu of this I think he is talking about Generate a test cycles of creative ideas, many of which are then dropped, spread over multiple agents/modules, a kind of pandemonium model (Dennett uses the term Multiple drafts), guided by past learning (mental labels high lightening mental paths that have lead down promising avenues in the past etc) - probably with censors/suppressors (Marvin Minsky concept) weeding out some embryonic 'bad' ideas as well etc - (below the conscious level) then I guess you could say that there is a kind of selection stage about which creative ideas win the competition to eventually seem to be part of the conscious stream. The selection isn't Natural Selection (no genes are passed on etc) but it is a bit like an artificial selection program but with proto ideas not, say, hunting dogs.

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