Tuesday, February 12, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version

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Murder plot against Danish cartoonist

by JP.DK

Thanks to Andrecillo Rodriguez Marcos for the link.

http://jp.dk/uknews/article1263133.ece

Murder plot against Danish cartoonist

Early Tuesday morning, Danish police arrested several people with a Muslim background suspected of conspiring to kill Kurt Westergaard, a Danish cartoonist with Morgenavisen Jyllands-Posten.

image description

Two of those arrested are Tunisian citizens, one a Danish citizen, according to the Danish Security and Intelligence Service, which has followed the group for months. The 40-year old Danish citizen is of Moroccan origin. He has been charged with attempted violation of section 114 of the Danish anti-terrorism act. After being interrogated, he will probably be discharged, according to the security and intelligence service.

Pursuant to the regulations of the Danish aliens' act, the two Moroccan citizens are held in custody in preparation for expulsion from Denmark.

Kurt Westergaard is one of the 12 cartoonists who on 30 September 2005 published cartoons of Muslim prophet Mohammed.

The cartoons and an explanatory article led, as is well known, to the so-called Mohammed crisis involving violent demonstrations, the boycott of Danish goods and the burning of Danish embassies.

Kurt Westergaard's cartoon depicting the prophet wearing a bomb turban with a lit fuse attracted particular attention. What the cartoonist wanted to say with his cartoon was that many people exploit the prophet to legitimize terror. However, the cartoon was widely seen as a depiction of the prophet as a terrorist.

Statement by Carsten Juste, Editor-in-Chief of Morgenavisen Jyllands-Posten, overall content responsibility under Danish media laws:

"Deeply worried and for several months, the management of Morgenavisen Jyllands-Posten have followed the discreet efforts by the Danish Security and Intelligence Service to protect Kurt Westergaard from concrete murder threats. The arrests have hopefully thwarted the murder plans. We sympathize with Kurt Westergaard and his family who are forced to live under unreasonable pressure. It is appalling that as a reward a man who to the best of his ability goes about his work and carries it out in accordance with Danish law, the Danish media ethics code and Danish media traditions was demonized and had his life threatened. We are grateful to the Danish authorities for protecting our colleague competently and professionally."

Statement by cartoonist Kurt Westergaard:

"Of course I fear for my life after the Danish Security and Intelligence Service informed me of the concrete plans of certain people to kill me. However, I have turned fear into anger and indignation. It has made me angry that a perfectly normal everyday activity which I used to do by the thousand was abused to set off such madness. I have attended to my work and I still do. I could not possibly know for how long I have to live under police protection; I think, however, that the impact of the insane response to my cartoon will last for the rest of my life. It is sad indeed, but it has become a fact of my life. "

JP

Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 | Permalink

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1. Comment #125962 by agn on February 12, 2008 at 10:30 am

Torture the bastards and make them reveal their networks, what family members were in on it, what imams they know of who has spoken in favour of terror, the names of mosque attendants under such speeches.

Enough is enough.

Other Comments by agn

2. Comment #125967 by bentleyd on February 12, 2008 at 10:36 am

Congratulations, Professor Dawkins, for your bravery in reposting the above cartoon. This is the first time I've actually seen one of the Danish cartoons on a formal website.

Other Comments by bentleyd

3. Comment #125969 by al-rawandi on February 12, 2008 at 10:36 am

agn,

Get serious.

Torture the bastards

This is what makes civilized countries different from backwards ones. They don't torture people. Saudis, Israelis, Iranians, and Chinese do this.

This is why we have police to prevent and assist in the prosecution of crime. Not to torture people for information. Good police work will be more effective than the fruits of torture.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

4. Comment #125970 by Glacian on February 12, 2008 at 10:36 am

It's ironic that these people respond to images that characterize their religion as one that encourages violence, bloodshed, and murder with ... well, violence, bloodshed, and murder.

Personally, and not that I think it'll never happen, but I'd love to see every nation that regards free speech as a fundamental right publish these cartoons. I wouldn't want to see them published just to see the reaction of Muslims, but because I think a message ought to be sent to the Muslim world: you have no right to impose your belief system outside your borders, and against others who do not share your faith. I am almost as disgusted with the conciliatory attitude nations give towards Islam as I am with their barbaric acts.

That these people are willing to attack others violently if they even display a single cartoon mocking their religion is to me a sign of the absolute irrationality - no, insanity - of their faith, and it puts the lie to any claim they have to belonging to a modern world. These people still have one foot in the middle ages. I hope, one day, a light will spread through the Muslim community, and where apostacy isn't the result, at the very least, they will regard the psychotic, misogynistic barbarity of their predecessors with the same shame and a wish to put it behind them as Christians feel towards the inquisition.

Other Comments by Glacian

5. Comment #125971 by Ole on February 12, 2008 at 10:39 am

Several Danish newspapers plan to print the cartoons tomorrow as a protest.

In due time.

Get other newspapers to do the same!!

Ole

P.S.
Here are the cartoons (PDF):

http://multimedia.jp.dk/archive/00080/Avisside_Muhammed-te_80003a.pdf

Other Comments by Ole

6. Comment #125974 by agn on February 12, 2008 at 10:43 am

Get the difference between violation and retaliation.
These bastards do not deserve to have their bodies unpunished.

In particular because there are thousands of others like them that need to be stopped and, not the least, be identified.
These people will only balk at one thing:
Become too terrified to engage in criminal acts.
They do not have any form of internal morality, and restraints on their behaviour must therefore be imposed upon them.

Other Comments by agn

7. Comment #125976 by Ole on February 12, 2008 at 10:45 am

Richard and Josh!

Why not publish all the cartoons here on RDN?

Ole

Other Comments by Ole

8. Comment #125983 by al-rawandi on February 12, 2008 at 10:50 am

agn,

Thank FSM you are not an elected official.

But you are right, torturing and killing has generally been the most effective method of stopping violence. Oh wait, I meant the exact opposite.

Get the difference between violation and retaliation.

Justice is not about revenge or retaliation. It should be about prevention, but you seem more concerned with "retaliation" for some curious reason.

These bastards do not deserve to have their bodies unpunished.

Maybe. Let's let a court decide, instead of enraged and irrational individuals looking to "retaliate"

These people will only balk at one thing:
Become too terrified to engage in criminal acts.

But I thought they longed to die and go to heaven?

They do not have any form of internal morality,

Really? Which ones? How do you know? You are psychic?

In particular because there are thousands of others like them

How do you know. If you could count them, you could easily arrest them.

You embody everything that these people criticize about the west. Congratulations, you are part of the problem.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

9. Comment #125996 by The Flying Trilobite on February 12, 2008 at 11:07 am

Agn,
Unless by "torture" you mean "educate and persuade through reasoned arguments," I'm gonna have to go with al-rawandi on this one. Physical torture isn't justified.

Also, we can't persecute people based in "internal morality" since we have no thought police. You can think whatever you want in your own head. It's when an individual acts on it that they may reap rewards, punishments or embarrassment.

Other Comments by The Flying Trilobite

10. Comment #126004 by mesomodel on February 12, 2008 at 11:16 am

al-rawandi (Duffman) -

This is what makes civilized countries different from backwards ones. They don't torture people. Saudis, Israelis, Iranians, and Chinese do this.

You forgot the U.S.

Sigh.

Other Comments by mesomodel

11. Comment #126011 by The Reverend Dark on February 12, 2008 at 11:28 am

Denmark has laws and rule of law. Threaten a cartoonist (or anyone else) and be charged with and punished to the appropriate extent of the law.

That much is common sense.

The second part requires more bravery. There has to be a consistent, deliberate, movement to mock any religion (Islam, Christianity or any other) that claims to be hurt by a cartoon, satire, or exercise of free speach. You cannot hurt Mohammed's feelings, or Jesus' feelings, Moses' feelings; if they ever existed, they are dead and quite beyond the petulant lip curling of deeply hurt feelings. God, whatever name you call, him, her or them, is in the same leaky boat. The moment that God\Allah manifests his size omnipotent Doc Marten's in the witness box and declares that he is an omnipotent\omniscient hurting puppy over a cartoon; then we can reconsider the position on satire. Until that time, shut your hole and stop telling me that your god is being insulted.

The Reverend Shayne Dark

Other Comments by The Reverend Dark

12. Comment #126015 by AdrianB on February 12, 2008 at 11:35 am

Thanks for posting the link to those cartoons Ole. I do like the one by Rasmus Sand Hoyer.

:)

Other Comments by AdrianB

13. Comment #126019 by octopus on February 12, 2008 at 11:39 am

I like this one. The rest of them are a bit cheap.

Other Comments by octopus

14. Comment #126021 by C_T on February 12, 2008 at 11:41 am

Can we post the cartoons on personal websites, or are there copyright restrictions?

Other Comments by C_T

15. Comment #126028 by al-rawandi on February 12, 2008 at 11:47 am

octopus,

No more virgins. Damn it.

*Stops sewing straps on suicide bomb vest*

mesomodel,

Indeed, the US too. Mukasey has been a total lame ass on the topic.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

16. Comment #126037 by scoobie on February 12, 2008 at 11:59 am

Nice to see the cartoons out in the open! Shouldn't the words on that last one be: "Stop Stop we ran out of raisins"? ;-)

Other Comments by scoobie

17. Comment #126038 by jimbob on February 12, 2008 at 12:01 pm

Forget the cartoons, let's really piss them off by sending Valentine's Day gifts:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/02/12/saudi.valentine/index.html

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18. Comment #126053 by justdust on February 12, 2008 at 12:23 pm

Well I have to say that I'd always thought Valentines day was crap, however the opportunity to irritate the Saudis might be one too good to pass up.

Good to at last see the cartoons.

Other Comments by justdust

19. Comment #126058 by EveryLittleHelps on February 12, 2008 at 12:29 pm

The BBC is carrying this report, too, and while it doesn't have the moral courage to put up pictures of the cartoons themselves, it is happy to carry this comment from AFREEN PARVEZ, AL-KHOBAR, SAUDI ARABIA, (link here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4674628.stm)

[quote]
It was outrageous and completely unethical to publish these cartoons.

It was also highly offensive to all Muslims and has made us very angry.

If someone insults your family then that is something you take very seriously, but this is worse than that - this is the Prophet, who is higher than all of us.

It just goes to show that Europe and the West don't properly understand the Muslim way.
[unqote]

My message to this lady is this. It's time that you and all Muslims everywhere understand that Western Europe has a centuries old tradition of Freedom of Speech which our ancestors fought for. The freedom to lampoon, satirise and ridicule anyone and anything, deserving or not, is not only a long established tradition - it's our birthright. I am tired of being told that because Muslims are offended by our cultural traditions that we are expected to bend over and take a kicking from a bunch of (as Pat Condell aptly puts it) 'hysterical, self righteous carpet-chewing, book-burning muppets with shit for brains'.

And if this offends you - you can kiss my arse.

Other Comments by EveryLittleHelps

20. Comment #126059 by Justin Hopkins on February 12, 2008 at 12:29 pm

Thank you for posting these cartoons, I've been DYING to see them ;)

Other Comments by Justin Hopkins

21. Comment #126064 by tieInterceptor on February 12, 2008 at 12:38 pm

the Spanish newspaper "La Vanguardia" has the cartoon on their front page on the web, I do not know if they actually printed it. Buts still its a good thing.

its very small thought, but its there.

http://www.lavanguardia.es/

Other Comments by tieInterceptor

22. Comment #126066 by cowalker on February 12, 2008 at 12:40 pm

I could pass my entire lifetime in indifference to a 6th century leader of Arabian tribes who used religion to gain power and wealth. When I hear stories like this, the imp of the perverse makes me imagine him in the most scurrilous and degrading terms, merely to spite those who would murder over a cartoon. They really don't get it that you can't inspire respect with disproportionate violence, do they?

Other Comments by cowalker

23. Comment #126070 by al-rawandi on February 12, 2008 at 12:42 pm

justdust,

Hallmark bomb!

Headline:

"Defense Minister Faisal al-Turki reported that the American F-16's flew low over the palace and dropped chocolate bon bons on the structure. Saudi anti-aircraft fire was ineffectual."

Other Comments by al-rawandi

24. Comment #126073 by Goldy on February 12, 2008 at 12:45 pm

They really don't get it that you can't inspire respect with disproportionate violence, do they?

This just opens up the "It's a Zionist plot!" excuse...as soon as Islam is seen as a nice religion, Zionist agents send in mentally deranged goons in abortive murder attempts to discredit Islam's good name.
;-)

Other Comments by Goldy

25. Comment #126075 by Bonzai on February 12, 2008 at 12:46 pm

agn:

These people will only balk at one thing:
Become too terrified to engage in criminal acts.

al-rawandi:

But I thought they longed to die and go to heaven?

Maybe we can force feed them roast pig and pork chops for dinner if they don't confess?

Other Comments by Bonzai

26. Comment #126088 by Styrer- on February 12, 2008 at 12:52 pm

I wonder, when on reading this, and particularly Kurt Westergaard's plaintively poignant words: 'I have turned fear into anger and indignation', if Dennett will wish to renounce his contemptible statement in his latest piece published here: 'There is no need, yet, for anger.'

I wonder if those who were flat out against my criticism of his words in an earlier thread may similarly wish to reconsider their positions.

My thoughts are with Kurt and his family.

Best,
Styrer

Other Comments by Styrer-

27. Comment #126092 by rthille on February 12, 2008 at 12:53 pm

Would putting a small drop of pig urine on the back of someone's hand be considered cruel and unusual punishment? :-) What if it's really just water?

ok, I'm not helping things, but I get really tired of the people who want to kill people for expressing an idea.

Other Comments by rthille

28. Comment #126095 by al-rawandi on February 12, 2008 at 12:53 pm

Styrer,

No.

Bonzai,

I assume you are joking.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

29. Comment #126109 by steveroot on February 12, 2008 at 1:12 pm

1. Comment #125962 by agn on February 12, 2008 at 10:30 am

Torture the bastards...

Sam Harris seems to think this is acceptable under certain circumstances if I read him correctly. I disagree; that is to say I agree with Al-Rawandi and- sadly- Mesomodel.

19. Comment #126058 by EveryLittleHelps on February 12, 2008 at 12:29 pm

The BBC ...is happy to carry this comment from AFREEN PARVEZ, AL-KHOBAR, SAUDI ARABIA, (link here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4674628.stm)

Freedom of speech occasionally *does* involve offending someone. When your offended (presumptive) entity is (supposedly) omnipotent and omniscient, why should humans have to inflict the retribution? Shut up and let your deity take care of his/her own problems. You might find that there would be fewer "insults" if you didn't get your panties in such a publig twist.
Steve

Other Comments by steveroot

30. Comment #126113 by octopus on February 12, 2008 at 1:18 pm

Am I allowed to do this?

Other Comments by octopus

31. Comment #126120 by HourglassMemory on February 12, 2008 at 1:22 pm

If Islam is peaceful they should not even shout when seeing drawings like these.
If they explode and ill-behave towards other human beings they are the proof that their ideals are exceptionally fertile grounds for horrible deeds to take place when they are not needed.

Other Comments by HourglassMemory

32. Comment #126137 by BigJohn on February 12, 2008 at 1:43 pm

So, when these evil cartoonists devise their blasphemous cartoons, do they refer to photographs to get the image right? Or, perhaps there is a portrait of Mohammad somewhere that they refer to. Otherwise, how do the Muslims know that the cartoon is about Mohammad instead of about someone else.

Other Comments by BigJohn

33. Comment #126147 by octopus on February 12, 2008 at 2:00 pm

I still think those cartoons are cheap. This is some proper stuff. Feel free to click prev/next.
http://www.jesusandmo.net/2006/08/07/wrong/

Other Comments by octopus

34. Comment #126154 by Dinah on February 12, 2008 at 2:04 pm

Perhaps this could make the Arch B of C reconsider his position. Or perhaps not.

Other Comments by Dinah

35. Comment #126157 by jaster on February 12, 2008 at 2:07 pm

Is torturing for revenge and retaliation acceptable? No.

Is torturing for information and as the means to a positive end acceptable? Absolutely.

But making claims on what is and is not acceptable regarding torture is pointless without defining the word. What is torture? Loud music and keeping someone awake for long periods? Water-boarding? Physically damaging the body? Psychologically damaging the body? Permantently physically or psychologically damaging the body?

There is an extremely wide spectrum for "torture." Saying you are for or against torture is not enough.

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36. Comment #126160 by al-rawandi on February 12, 2008 at 2:13 pm

jaster,

Torture is ok? Good, expect American, British, Danish and other soldiers to be tortured. We can start shedding the other portions of the Geneva convention too.

How about collective punishment? We can't find the terrorists? Starve the population in order to get them to capitulate. How about bulldozing civilian infrastructure to get information? Acceptable?

Torture is outlawed for several pretty simple reasons. It is a bad idea for several more. We can't expect to torture people then have the moral high ground on human rights. Torture does not yield reliable information.

As an American many of my countrymen have died to keep me free (and many other peoples as well), I am willing to sacrifice my life in a terrorist explosion so that we don't become a country that tortures people and disregards human rights and dignity. That is my contribution to freedom. What is yours?

Other Comments by al-rawandi

37. Comment #126161 by tieInterceptor on February 12, 2008 at 2:16 pm

by octopus: This is some proper stuff. Feel free to click prev/next.
http://www.jesusandmo.net

jesus and mo is the best satirical caroon I ever read, I have been a fan for a long time now. :-)
image name

Other Comments by tieInterceptor

38. Comment #126164 by NakedCelt on February 12, 2008 at 2:17 pm

Comment #125962 by agn on February 12:

Torture the bastards and make them reveal their networks, what family members were in on it, what imams they know of who has spoken in favour of terror, the names of mosque attendants under such speeches.

Enough is enough.

The following is extremely politically incorrect, having been written 100 years ago. It was also written by a religious man. For all that, it's a damn sight more enlightened than agn's point of view.

G. K. Chesterton, 1908:

Whatever else is right, it is utterly wrong to employ the argument that we Europeans must do to savages and Asiatics whatever savages and Asiatics do to us. I have even seen some controversialists use the metaphor, "We must fight them with their own weapons." Very well; let those controversialists take their metaphor, and take it literally. Let us fight the Soudanese with their own weapons. Their own weapons are large, very clumsy knives, with an occasional old-fashioned gun. Their own weapons are also torture and slavery. If we fight them with torture and slavery, we shall be fighting badly, precisely as if we fought them with clumsy knives and old guns. That is the whole strength of our Christian civilization, that it does fight with its own weapons and not with other people's. It is not true that superiority suggests a tit for tat. It is not true that if a small hooligan puts his tongue out at the Lord Chief Justice, the Lord Chief Justice immediately realizes that his only chance of maintaining his position is to put his tongue out at the little hooligan. The hooligan may or may not have any respect at all for the Lord Chief Justice; that is a matter which we may contentedly leave as a solemn psychological mystery. But if the hooligan has any respect at all for the Lord Chief Justice, that respect is certainly extended to the Lord Chief Justice entirely because he does not put his tongue out.

Other Comments by NakedCelt

39. Comment #126170 by Partisan on February 12, 2008 at 2:24 pm

What I want to know is, how is this all possibley going to end? When dealing with fanatics who wont listen to reason, what options are there aside from jailing them for life or killing them?

The Danish reaction was, although I hate to say it as they did what any decent society would do, too mild. They should have been treated as criminally insane and detained until they're deemed psychologically fit to re-enter society (if ever).

Other Comments by Partisan

40. Comment #126172 by notsobad on February 12, 2008 at 2:28 pm

agn said:

That wouldn't be a good move strategically anyway.

Other Comments by notsobad

41. Comment #126177 by godless_badass on February 12, 2008 at 2:41 pm

just wrote a comment in the comments section of that spanish newspaper mentioned above. Why don't we all write there and let our voice be heared ?

Other Comments by godless_badass

42. Comment #126179 by al-rawandi on February 12, 2008 at 2:44 pm

notsobad,

I really like it when peoples reactions to irrational and angry Muslim reactions is "torture the bastards".

Muslim shouts:
"Torture defamers of Islam!"

agn shouts:
"No! We will torture you!"

I can't believe he doesn't see the irony.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

43. Comment #126180 by Sally Luxmoore on February 12, 2008 at 2:46 pm

According to Wikipedia (the oracle),

thousands of illustrations of Muhammad have appeared in books by and for Muslims.

Why don't people look these out and publish them. It would be harder for 'the muslim world' to go bananas over their own books !

Other Comments by Sally Luxmoore

44. Comment #126186 by godless_badass on February 12, 2008 at 2:56 pm

wouldn't you just love the Russian Strategic Air Force work those countries over ? And then, when the
rabbis (or rabbies:))) and christian ilusionists start yell in orgasmic tremors, just look over the shoulder and say: "We'll get to you when we're done with them..." OH, boy....

Other Comments by godless_badass

45. Comment #126189 by Sally Luxmoore on February 12, 2008 at 3:04 pm

Wikipedia again...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mohammed_kaaba_1315.jpg#file

This is actually rather a beautiful illustration. I bet the Bodleian library has others like it and there must be many more around the world.

Other Comments by Sally Luxmoore

46. Comment #126191 by ordeneus on February 12, 2008 at 3:15 pm

I'm also a little surprised by the advocacy of torture. I'd posit that the people doing so need to look a little harder at their history books. It's an interesting point as to how the torture of Ayman al-Zawahiri by the Egyptians contributed to his later actions.

Other Comments by ordeneus

47. Comment #126193 by Sally Luxmoore on February 12, 2008 at 3:19 pm

Hello again. I'm on a roll with this theme, sorry !

http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/islamic_mo_full/

Scroll down.
These are fascinating and again most are rather beautiful, until you find women being depicted. At first there are the good women, collecting flowers in paradise (sounds very boring), but then:

eg: "Mohammed, along with Buraq and Gabriel, visit Hell, and see a demon punishing "shameless women" who had exposed their hair to strangers. For this crime of inciting lust in men, the women are strung up by their hair and burned for eternity. Persian, 15th century."
Or: " Next, Mohammed sees women strung up by hooks thrust through their tongues by a green demon. Their crimes were to "mock" their husbands and to leave their homes without permission. Persian, 15th century."
Or:" Further on, Mohammed sees a red demon that is torturing women by hanging them up by hooks through their breasts, as they are engulfed in flames. The women are being punished for giving birth to illegitimate children whom they falsely claimed were fathered by their husbands. Persian, 15th century."

They just can't get away from hatred / fear of women

Other Comments by Sally Luxmoore

48. Comment #126203 by MelM on February 12, 2008 at 3:31 pm

Comment #125971 by Ole

Several Danish newspapers plan to print the cartoons tomorrow as a protest.

Yes; yes; yes.!!!

Sometime, people will have to fight the fear in their guts and turn and face this enemy. Every blog and media outlet on the web should publish the cartoons or at least the "bomb head". So should the print and TV media.

"I AM SPARTICUS"

Other Comments by MelM

49. Comment #126206 by godless_badass on February 12, 2008 at 3:36 pm

"Comment #125971 by Ole

Several Danish newspapers plan to print the cartoons tomorrow as a protest.

Yes; yes; yes.!!!

Sometime, people will have to fight the fear in their guts and turn and face this enemy. Every blog and media outlet on the web should publish the cartoons or at least the "bomb head". So should the print and TV media. "

Do we have someone from New Hampshire here ?
"Live free or die" anyone ?

Other Comments by godless_badass

50. Comment #126207 by Newk on February 12, 2008 at 3:39 pm

I cant wait to see if there will be some sort of reaction again when the drawing of Kurt Westergaard is republished in the Danish Newspapers tomorrow :) ...

Being from Denmark myself I find it quite laughable all the primitive reactions the muslim community had, like burning our flag and such...

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