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Tuesday, February 26, 2008 | Science : Evolution and Biology | print version Print | Comments |

Video The Giant Tortoise's Tale

Richard Dawkins

This is the second of 3 tales to be posted. They were written immediately after The Ancestor's Tale was completed, and would have been included if Richard had visited the Galapagos Islands before the book was published.

The audio is Richard Dawkins reading the article, and video footage was then added over it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRCe9hUt4lo

Quicktime Small (426x240, 23.3 MB) | Quicktime Large* (720x480, 55.3 MB) | Audio Only (mp3, 3.7 MB)

Filmed and Edited by Josh Timonen

Also see:
The Lava Lizard's Tale
The Salamander's Tale

*Quicktime Large version is anamorphic, so it may appear too skinny if played in the browser. It is recommended that you download this file first, and then play it in the QuickTime player

"The Giant Tortoise's Tale" by Richard Dawkins

I am writing this on a boat (called the Beagle, as it happens) in the Galapagos archipelago, whose most famous inhabitants are the eponymous (in Spanish) giant tortoises, and whose most famous visitor is that giant of the mind, Charles Darwin. In his account of the voyage of the original Beagle, written long before the central idea of The Origin of Species condensed out of his brain, Darwin wrote of the Galapagos Islands:

"Most of the organic productions are aboriginal creations, found nowhere else; there is even a difference between the inhabitants of the different islands; yet all show a marked relationship with those of [South] America, though separated from that continent by an open space of ocean, between 500 and 600 miles in width. The archipelago is a little world within itself ... Considering the small size of the islands, we feel the more astonished at the number of their aboriginal beings, and at their confined range ... we seem to be brought somewhat near to that great fact - that mystery of mysteries - the first appearance of new beings on this earth."

True to his pre-Darwinian education, the young Darwin was using "aboriginal creation" for what we would now call endemic species - evolved on the islands and found nowhere else. Nevertheless, Darwin already had more than a faint inkling of that great truth which, in his mighty maturity, he was to tell the world. Writing of the small birds now known as Darwin's finches, he said: "Seeing this gradation and diversity of structure in one small, intimately related group of birds, one might really fancy that from an original paucity of birds in this archipelago, one species had been taken and modified for different ends."

He could as well have said the same of the giant tortoises, for he himself was told by the vice-governor, Mr Lawson:

" ... that the tortoises differed from the different islands, and that he himself could with certainty tell from which island any one was brought. I did not for some time pay sufficient attention to this statement, and I had already partially mingled together the collections from two of the islands. I never dreamed that islands, about 50 or 60 miles apart, and most of them in sight of each other, formed of precisely the same rocks, placed under a quite similar climate, rising to a nearly equal height, would have been differently tenanted ... "

And he said the same kind of thing about the iguanas, both marine and land, and the plants.

With the benefit of hindsight, Darwinian hindsight, we post-Darwinians can piece together what happened. In every one of these cases - and this is typical of the origin of species everywhere - it is islands that constitute the vital, though accidental ingredient. Without the isolation provided by islands, sexual intermingling of gene pools nips species divergence in the bud. Any aspiring new species would be continually flooded by genes from the old species. Islands are natural workshops of evolution. A barrier to sexual intermingling is what you need, to allow that initial divergence of gene pools which constitutes the origin of species, Darwin's "Mystery of Mysteries".

But islands don't have to be land surrounded by water. To a highland-breeding giant tortoise, each of the five volcanoes along the length of the big island of Isabela (Albemarle to Darwin, who used the traditional English names) is an island of green habitability surrounded by inhospitable lava desert. Most of the Galapagos Islands are single volcanos. But the big island, Isabela, is a necklace of five volcanos, spaced from each other at approximately the same distance as the single volcano on the neighbouring island of Fernandina which, from one point of view, might as well be a sixth volcano on Isabela. To a tortoise, Isabela is an archipelago within an archipelago. Not just to a tortoise. The same is true of some plants, moths, land and sea iguanas and other things.

Both levels of isolation have helped the giant tortoises to diverge. All the Galapagos giant tortoises are related to a particular mainland species of land tortoise, Geochelone chilensis, which is smaller than any of them. At some point during the few million years that the islands have existed, one or a few of these mainland tortoises inadvertently fell into the sea and floated across. How could they have survived the long and doubtless arduous crossing? Surely most of them didn't. But it would have only taken one female to do the trick. And tortoises are astonishingly well-equipped to survive the crossing.

The early whalers took thousands of giant tortoises from the Galapagos Islands away in their ships for food. To keep the meat fresh, they were not killed until needed, but they were not fed or watered while waiting to be butchered. They were simply turned on their backs, sometimes stacked several deep, so they couldn't walk away. I tell the story not in order to horrify (although I have to say that such barbaric cruelty horrifies me), but to make a point. Tortoises can survive for weeks without food or water, easily long enough to float in the Humboldt Current from South America to the Galapagos Islands. The record without food or water is more than one year, by a tortoise in the 19th century. And tortoises do float.

Having reached and multiplied upon their first Galapagos island, the tortoises would with comparative ease have - again accidentally - island-hopped the much shorter distances to the rest of the archipelago by the same means. And they did what many animals do when they arrive on an island. They evolved to become larger: the long-noticed phenomenon of island gigantism (confusingly, there is an equally well-known phenomenon of island dwarfism). If the tortoise story had followed the pattern of Darwin's famous finches, they would have evolved a different species on each of the islands. Then, after subsequent accidental driftings from island to island, they would have been unable to interbreed (that's the definition of a separate species) and would have been free to evolve a different way of life uncontaminated by genetic swamping.

You could say that the different species' incompatible mating habits and preferences constitute a kind of genetic substitute for the geographic isolation of separate islands. Though they overlap geographically, they are now isolated on separate islands of mating exclusivity. So they can diverge yet further. Most of the Galapagos Islands have the Large, the Medium and the Small Ground Finch, which specialise in different diets. These three species originally diverged on different islands and have now come together on several islands where they coexist as different species, never interbreeding and each specialising in a different kind of seed diet.

The tortoises did something similar, evolving distinctive shell shapes on the different islands. The races on the larger islands have high domes. Those on smaller islands have saddle shaped shells with a high-lipped window at the front for the head. The reason for this seems to be that the large islands are wet enough to grow grass, and the tortoises there are grazers. The smaller islands are mostly too dry for grass, and the tortoises resort to browsing on cactuses. The high-lipped saddle shell allows the neck to reach up to the cactuses which, on their side, grow higher in an evolutionary arms race against the browsing tortoises.

The tortoise story adds to the finch model the further complication that, for tortoises, volcanos are islands within islands. They provide high, cool, damp, green oases, surrounded by dry lava fields at low altitude which, for a giant tortoise, constitute hostile deserts. Most of the islands have but a single volcano and each has its own single species (or sub-species) of giant tortoise (except in those few islands that have none at all). The big island of Isabela has five major volcanoes, and each volcano has its own species (or sub-species) of tortoise. Truly, Isabela is an archipelago within an archipelago: a system of islands within an island. And the principle of islands in the literal geographical sense setting the stage for the evolution of islands in the metaphorical genetic sense of species has never been more elegantly demonstrated than here in the archipelago of Darwin's blessed youth.

— Richard Dawkins's book, The Ancestor's Tale, is a Chaucerian pilgrimage to the evolutionary past. The pilgrims are living creatures, and their tales are used to illustrate some general principles of evolution. This essay would have been included in the book if the author had written it after, instead of before his personal pilgrimage to the islands.

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1. Comment #133710 by aflacgirl84 on February 26, 2008 at 3:12 pm

Well done! I enjoyed this very much along with the first one, and am looking forward to the third. Good job, Josh!

Other Comments by aflacgirl84

2. Comment #133711 by Wosret on February 26, 2008 at 3:14 pm

 avatarSuper awesome! I can't wait for the next one. I knew for a long time that the tortoises were different, but I didn't know how so. Now I do know some about it. These are just great!

Other Comments by Wosret

3. Comment #133715 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on February 26, 2008 at 3:21 pm

 avatarGenesis 7:14 "They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort."

Creationist: "I've never seen a monkey give birth to a Human."

My [Exclamation of awe] that was wonderful Richard.

Other Comments by ThoughtsonCommonToad

4. Comment #133718 by GodlessHeathen on February 26, 2008 at 3:25 pm

 avatarWonderful stuff. =^_^=

Other Comments by GodlessHeathen

5. Comment #133726 by z8000783 on February 26, 2008 at 3:49 pm

The Ancestors Tale is simply crying out to be the next major 13 part series for BBC2.

Someone here need to do something to move this forward.

Other Comments by z8000783

6. Comment #133732 by Donnie VandenBos on February 26, 2008 at 3:58 pm

 avatarI really do love listening to Professor Dawkins speak, particularly so when he doesn't have to bandy arguments back and forth with somebody (though those are fun, too).

I agree with you, z8000783, when you say The Ancestor's Tale should be adapted to a multi-part television series. That would be phenomenal!

Other Comments by Donnie VandenBos

7. Comment #133736 by BicycleRepairMan on February 26, 2008 at 4:08 pm

 avatarThe Ancestors Tale is simply crying out to be the next major 13 part series for BBC2.

Yes!! That would be so great. The Ancestor's Tale is one of the best books I've ever read, if you havent already, just buy it!! you wont regret it.
http://www.richarddawkins.net/firstChapter,3

Other Comments by BicycleRepairMan

8. Comment #133741 by Teratornis on February 26, 2008 at 4:25 pm

 avatarOne wonders if the moderate tortoises give cover to the extreme tortoises.

Other Comments by Teratornis

9. Comment #133763 by dragonfirematrix on February 26, 2008 at 5:46 pm

 avatarAnother very good science lesson. I enjoy these very much.

Other Comments by dragonfirematrix

10. Comment #133764 by HourglassMemory on February 26, 2008 at 5:48 pm

It's so cool seeing Richard stooping next to the tortoises.
If The Ancestor's Tale ever gets to be done, Richard has to do that same thing, and talk to the camera, whispering like David Attenborough.

Other Comments by HourglassMemory

11. Comment #133765 by Fire1974 on February 26, 2008 at 5:55 pm

"The Ancestors Tale is simply crying out to be the next major 13 part series for BBC2."


It would be the Cosmos of the next generation.

Other Comments by Fire1974

12. Comment #133768 by Styrer- on February 26, 2008 at 6:08 pm

I recall that Richard, in a recent interview, explained that his love of biology did not begin with love of animals themselves, and their habits, but with the explanatory power he thought they held, intellectually and evolutionarily.

How wonderful it is to see him here, a la Attenborough, becoming so physically 'up close and personal' with some of those creatures he has not hitherto been such close friends with!

Always a joy to hear Richard pour forth on the evils of religion; always a greater one to hear him share his wonder of the natural world with us all. From such, his refutations of religion acquire even greater and more persuasive force against those seeking to set rationality on its head.

Heartwarming and educational stuff, Richard. Thank you, and more, please.

Best,
Styrer

Other Comments by Styrer-

13. Comment #133773 by Gymnopedie on February 26, 2008 at 6:21 pm

Darn, someone beat me to the "Cosmos of the next gen" line. It was Cosmos that first got me interested in science and made me realize it wasn't just a bunch of boring books and uninteresting teachers.

Other Comments by Gymnopedie

14. Comment #133783 by Slyer on February 26, 2008 at 7:17 pm

 avatarI'm sorry but I don't think cosmos can be beaten. ;)

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15. Comment #133784 by Goldy on February 26, 2008 at 7:19 pm

 avatar
The smaller islands are mostly too dry for grass, and the tortoises resort to browsing on cactuses

Cacti, surely?

Other Comments by Goldy

16. Comment #133794 by Richard Morgan on February 26, 2008 at 7:46 pm

Lovely!
I'm working on my next composition.
The title leapt out at me from the narrative : "Tortoises do float."

Other Comments by Richard Morgan

17. Comment #133795 by Wosret on February 26, 2008 at 7:52 pm

 avatarI am with Slyer, I don't see how anything can ever surpass Cosmos. It was the closest to perfection a series has ever achieved. Maybe if they clone Carl, a couple of them, and they can co-cost a new updated version. Beyond that, I don't think it can be done.

Carl Sagan showned an almost super-human awe, and a fasination with science, the universe, and everything. One that he couldn't help but rub off on anyone who listened to him. Every setence that left the man's mouth was poetry. I found that he could easily capture every ounce of my attention. I still go back and watch all my favorite parts once in awhile. I have much have watched him explain the evolution of life, and that part about the universal calender three dozen times or more.

I think Dawkins could make a superb series, and he has already. Waking up in the universe is easily in my top 5 favorite lecture series, and he could definitely take second best of all time...but I simply can't conceive of Cosmos being outdone, though I hope for that day that it is.

Other Comments by Wosret

18. Comment #133808 by Richard Morgan on February 26, 2008 at 9:19 pm

EDIT : I found the unfavorable comparisons with Cosmos to be in rather poor taste, here, on Richard Dawkins' site.
I was going to start PMing people, then I realised one of the posters was somebody who needed the evolution of life explained to him more than 36 times.
Enough said.

Other Comments by Richard Morgan

19. Comment #133809 by Styrer- on February 26, 2008 at 9:30 pm

I found the comparisons with Cosmos to be in rather poor taste, here, on Richard Dawkins' site.
I was going to start PMing people, then I realised one of the posters was somebody who needed the evolution of life explained to him more than 36 times.
Enough said.


While the poster may indeed require multiple explanations of how evolution works, I do not understand why any comparison of Richard's performances, anywhere, with the groundbreaking, extraordinarily successful 'Cosmos' should be considered 'rather poor taste'.

Is such a comparison not, in fact, an enormous compliment to Richard?

And I have absolutely no idea whatsoever what your PMs in this regard would have said.

Please explain.

Best,
Styrer

Other Comments by Styrer-

20. Comment #133810 by MaxD on February 26, 2008 at 9:39 pm

 avatarWill there be another trip to the Galapagos lead by the RDF any time soon?

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21. Comment #133811 by Richard Morgan on February 26, 2008 at 9:41 pm

Oops - I forgot the key word in that first sentence!
I found the unfavourable comparisons....


"...I'm sorry but I don't think cosmos can be beaten."
"...but I simply can't conceive of Cosmos being outdone, though I hope for that day that it is. "
etc.
Thanks for pointing that out to me, Styrer!

Other Comments by Richard Morgan

22. Comment #133815 by Steve Zara on February 26, 2008 at 9:59 pm

 avatarWhat an excellent film. I have to say I was surprised to hear that tortoises can float, having seen evidence to the contrary decades ago when my brother attempted to show that our pet tortoise could swim. (It survived the experiment, but not by proving him right).

Other Comments by Steve Zara

23. Comment #133816 by Styrer- on February 26, 2008 at 10:04 pm

Oops - I forgot the key word in that first sentence!

I found the unfavourable comparisons....


"...I'm sorry but I don't think cosmos can be beaten."
"...but I simply can't conceive of Cosmos being outdone, though I hope for that day that it is. "
etc.
Thanks for pointing that out to me, Styrer!


Er, ok.

The fact that even a mere snippet of Richard in action can bring Cosmos to mind for some is surely something to welcome, in any case.

Not quite sure what your point was, nor still of what your PM would have contained.

Best,
Styrer

Other Comments by Styrer-

24. Comment #133823 by Wosret on February 26, 2008 at 10:36 pm

 avatarWow Richard Morgan, bit of a fanboy are we? Lol.

I didn't actually make the comparison, I responded to it. No need to attempt to insult me, or PM me to explain how my personal prefence is catagorically mistaken...though I'm sure that would be a trick.

From what I did read, you seem to be saying, you didn't like the comparison, ergo, I'm a moron?

Alrighty!

Other Comments by Wosret

25. Comment #133824 by Roy_H on February 26, 2008 at 10:43 pm

 avatar"The Ancestors Tale is simply crying out to be the next major 13 part series for BBC2."

Yes Please!

I have the book, it is wonderful.

Other Comments by Roy_H

26. Comment #133825 by Steve Zara on February 26, 2008 at 10:44 pm

 avatar
It was the closest to perfection a series has ever achieved.


What about some of the work of David Attenborough? What about "the Ascent of Man"?

Cosmos was wonderful, and it was inspiring, but let's not get too carried away.

Anyway, everyone knows that the closest to perfection a TV series has achieved was the return of Dr Who in 2005.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

27. Comment #133849 by LorienRyan on February 26, 2008 at 11:48 pm

 avatarNice presentation. Evolution and biology are always so interesting. I'm studying full time (IT)at the moment so these easily digestable info snipets are great.

Everyone knows Tom Baker was the best Dr Who. Jelly baby anyone?

Other Comments by LorienRyan

28. Comment #133851 by Styrer- on February 27, 2008 at 12:02 am

Cosmos was wonderful, and it was inspiring, but let's not get too carried away.


I think that it is in the very carrying away with an idea that we can start to hear beyond that 'still, sad music of humanity' and begin to approach, without solipsism, the kinds of ideas Richard spends his time explaining to us. Would you not agree?

Anyway, everyone knows that the closest to perfection a TV series has achieved was the return of Dr Who in 2005.


Rubbish. When the Doctor, Tom Baker, together with his scarf, was replaced by the lamentable Peter Davison, I stopped watching. For ever.

Don't you dare offend and humiliate my belief here. I might have to, er, re-think.

Best,
Styrer

Other Comments by Styrer-

29. Comment #133857 by Lammie on February 27, 2008 at 1:09 am

 avatarLovely story. I was also surprised about the theory of giant tortoises floating across to the next island. I have a pair of much smaller tortoises and I am pretty sure they will sink like stones if placed in water. Perhaps small baby tortoises could have been taken to an adjoining island by birds (sea-gulls) and then escaped? On an aside having a pair tortoises has taught me:
1) tortoises are NOT slow and can cover long distances with remarkable speed
2) their intelligence certainly exceeds the expectations one has of a reptile.
2) the male has a healthy sex drive and pesters the poor female on a regular basis - the grunting noise he makes can be heard 50 m away!

Other Comments by Lammie

30. Comment #133861 by Logicel on February 27, 2008 at 1:41 am

 avatarOoooh, a barefooted Dawkins!

Not only factually presented, but also 'fractally':

Archipelagoes within archipelagoes

Islands within islands.

Other Comments by Logicel

31. Comment #133868 by Richard Morgan on February 27, 2008 at 1:51 am

Mitchell Gilks
From what I did read, you seem to be saying, you didn't like the comparison, ergo, I'm a moron?
I'm glad you asked the question, MG. No, I don't think you are a moron. It was just my way of being rude because I was upset. (I get upset rather too easily I'm afraid.)
But to come on to Richard Dawkins' site and say, "Nice film, but not as good a Sagan's Cosmos." struck me as, well, not very nice.
Those who know me here, know that I am quite the opposite of a "fanboy". They also know I am a cantankerous ol' sod, and regularly tell me off about it, bless'em. Adhomin'em.

Logicel :
Archipelagoes within archipelagoes.
Islands within islands.
Yes, the poetry of those expressions struck me also. In fact I almost chose one of them as a title for my music, before deciding on "Tortoises do float."
I preferred the latter for it's Lewis Carroll feeling, whereas "islands within islands" was a little reminiscent of Joni Mitchell or Rory Gallagher.
Watch this space.


Other Comments by Richard Morgan

32. Comment #133875 by Wosret on February 27, 2008 at 1:57 am

 avatarSteve Zara. I have never watched a episode of Dr Who, despite Dougles Adams' hand in it. The only live action shows I watch are about reality. So documentaries, sometimes game shows, the news, some talk shows. That is it. I get my fiction from anime, exclusively. I watch almost zero hollywood movies as well, unlees they involve superheroes, aliens, perhaps mythology, or are adaptations of manga or anime.

As for David Attenborough, in over all series achievement, and education of the public over the years. He wins hands down, in a single series, Sagan rules the world.

Other Comments by Wosret

33. Comment #133876 by Steve Zara on February 27, 2008 at 2:00 am

 avatarActually, I did think Cosmos pretty perfect. The presentation, material, visuals and, especially, the music where stunning. I just wanted to provoke some discussion.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

34. Comment #133882 by Richard Morgan on February 27, 2008 at 2:09 am

Steve Zara :
I just wanted to provoke some discussion.

All alone in the house?
Got another bad cold...again?
I know the feeling.
Have you noticed how often you type "wHere" instead of "were"?
Oh, and thanks for reminding me about the excellent music used in Cosmos. But in my defence, I just have to point out that Pachelbel, Bach, Vivaldi and Shostakovitch are, well...absolutely brilliant, and I'm not.
Quite simple really.
(For the cold, try honey in your mint tea.)

Other Comments by Richard Morgan

35. Comment #133883 by Wosret on February 27, 2008 at 2:09 am

 avatarRichard Morgan, no one actually come on and said anything remotely similar to "Nice film, but not as good as Sagan." Everyone complimented, and someone said that he should do a thirteen part series, and be the next cosmos. Someone said it would be great, but not as good as cosmos, I agreed. So the thing that was said to not be good as cosmos, that I agreed with, was the completely imagined, and not real 13 part series about the ancestor's tale.

In any case, I think Dawkins is a big boy, and cares about hearing the truth of what people think, not having his feelings saved. Honest feedback over incensere silence.

Regardless, I would find it incredibly patronizing of someone to insult a commenter of something I made because they said it only had the potential to be the second best series ever, and not the best... because I thought it wasn't nice.

Do not pay attention to a single argument Dawkins forwards? I haven't seen him take any action that implies he is a hypocrit. I doubt he would enjoy you doing that for him.

I'm just a dick too, so I'm allow to let fly such an inflammatory comment for not real reason, don't let it bother you either, my friends don't after all!

Other Comments by Wosret

36. Comment #133899 by Matt H. on February 27, 2008 at 2:28 am

 avatarThat video was utterly fascinating. Well written and read by Richard, and I thought the video edited on top by Josh was professionally done too, especially the shots of turtles and finches. I'm very much looking forward to the next one, though I wish there were more! Great work guys.

Other Comments by Matt H.

37. Comment #133904 by Steve Zara on February 27, 2008 at 2:34 am

 avatar
All alone in the house?


Yes.

Have you noticed how often you type "wHere" instead of "were"?


Dammit, yes. I think that particular neuron has gone.

I shall try and do better.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

38. Comment #133906 by AfraidToDie on February 27, 2008 at 2:37 am

 avatarThere is a true story about whaling that inspired the fiction Mobey Dick which has quite a bit in it about the whalers picking up these tortoises and carrying them for emergency food. It is a wonder they didn't become extinct with all the whaling that went on. For those of you who enjoy true stories that have great historical significance, yet have intrigue that matches good fiction, pick up a copy of "In the HEART of the SEA - The Tragedy of the Whaleship Essex" by Nathaniel Philbrick. This is the true story of one special journey and their tragedy after being sunk by an irate whale (I say "good for the whale"!), and the efforts to survive deep in the Pacific Ocean. These giant tortoises played significant cameo roles!

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39. Comment #133930 by gcujimmy on February 27, 2008 at 3:16 am

 avatarRe tortoises being used as emergency rations.

Terry Pratchett in Small Gods...

"There's very good eating on one of these, you know."

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40. Comment #133943 by Roy_H on February 27, 2008 at 3:39 am

 avatarMy Audiobook version arrived this morning 9 hours
7 cds for 13 quid...what a bargain!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ancestors-Tale-Pilgrimage-Dawn-Life/dp/0752873210/ref=sr_1_3/026-1294753-2284445?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204112215&sr=8-3

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41. Comment #133950 by VanYoungman on February 27, 2008 at 3:55 am

 avatarBeautiful job Josh. Bring on the next.

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42. Comment #133963 by Dune010 on February 27, 2008 at 4:20 am

 avatarI too must say that I have thoroughly enjoyed watching these tales.

I would be brilliant to see a television series based on The Ancestor's Tale. As much as I do enjoy watching Richard talk about religion and science in the context of opposing religion, I would prefer this to be balanced, if not out-weighed, by science alone. Richard quite rightly says that science is wonderful, and I hope that greater emphasis on this would silence those who insist that he is motivated purely by hatred of religion. And, of course, it would be great to watch.

Other Comments by Dune010

43. Comment #133985 by phasmagigas on February 27, 2008 at 5:48 am

 avatar
Cacti, surely?
(re cactuses)

shhh, if that is indeed an error on dawkins part then that will render the whole video as lies in the eyes of the creationist.

Other Comments by phasmagigas

44. Comment #133993 by phasmagigas on February 27, 2008 at 5:55 am

 avatargenerally, a while back i showed an aquaintence one of my tarantulas, a large, healthy goliath bird eater. She shrieked and asked 'why would god make such an ugly creature?' (she is a born again) anyway i just kind of ignored the comment as i couldnt be bothered arguing with a creationist but next time that question is ever posed i will say something like 'now that is a very good question, please come back when you have a good answer, i'd be interested to know, maybe you could ask your pastor, just why would god make such an ugly creature??'

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45. Comment #134005 by black wolf on February 27, 2008 at 6:15 am

 avatar
'now that is a very good question, please come back when you have a good answer, i'd be interested to know, maybe you could ask your pastor, just why would god make such an ugly creature??'


Pastor's answer: "...mumblemumble...mysterious ways... mumblemumble... school board phone number..."

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46. Comment #134006 by Sally Luxmoore on February 27, 2008 at 6:15 am

 avatarReally enjoyed this.

Sad, however, to be reminded of the unthinking cruelty of our ancestors - keeping those poor tortoises on their backs for weeks at a time. Horrible thought.

Other Comments by Sally Luxmoore

47. Comment #134010 by The Reverend Dark on February 27, 2008 at 6:19 am

 avatarphasmagigas chortles along.

please come back when you have a good answer, i'd be interested to know, maybe you could ask your pastor, just why would god make such an ugly creature??'


(This joke Doctor Doolittle enabled; please take with a grain of salt and two weasels, orally.)

I'll tell the giant tortoises what you said about god making them ugly.

I think they'll be very hurt.

Cheers,
The Reverend Shayne Dark

Other Comments by The Reverend Dark

48. Comment #134015 by Richard Morgan on February 27, 2008 at 6:28 am

phasmagigas
She shrieked and asked 'why would god make such an ugly creature?'
Could you be a little more precise please? Was she reacting to the tarantula or you?

Other Comments by Richard Morgan

49. Comment #134016 by phasmagigas on February 27, 2008 at 6:29 am

 avatarrev dark.

the 'why would god make such an ugly creature'is a perfect demonstration of general ignorance. I could have been a complete ass at the time and said (had i thought quickly enough, she has no idea im a godless heathen) and give her a disdained look of horror and said 'WHAT, are you saying that the lord could possibly make something UGLY???? I think we need to pray together this very minute, the lord is perfect and his creation is perfect, what you have just said could put your very soul in jeapordy.'

of course she mustnt have even realised that beauty, as they say, is in the eye of the beholder. The thing that i noticed by the comment is quite simply how the question seeked an answer that gave no real explanation.

Other Comments by phasmagigas

50. Comment #134019 by phasmagigas on February 27, 2008 at 6:32 am

 avatarrichard morgan.

Could you be a little more precise please? Was she reacting to the tarantula or you?


hahah

well, now you say it i was assuming it was the spider!! and no, i didnt take a young woman to my spider room to show her something that could be considered rightly ugly (wink), and thats another good question for creationists regarding ugly things!!

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