Crossing the Divide
Faithful upbringing
For example, there was the quandary of death. A literal reading of Genesis indicates that no animals perished before Adam and Eve ate the fateful apple—in other words, that there were no carnivores preying on other animals. But in his biology classes, Godfrey learned of predators perfectly framed to kill: cats with stereoscopic vision, enlarged canines, and claws; spiders that weave webs as traps; and sharks that replace serrated teeth throughout their life. "They're not eating sea seaweed," says Godfrey, who puzzled over how these animals had emerged if God hadn't intended them to prey on others. "That was the first thing at university that really started to disturb me," he says.
Godfrey ran through bitterness, anger, and disappointment about having been deceived for so many years. He sought out creationists and confronted them. Late in graduate school, he and his devout Christian wife, mother-in-law, and mother attended a weekend symposium at a Bible school in New York state, where Godfrey says he angrily stood up at the end of a talk and argued passionately with the speaker.
2. Comment #139675 by Geoff on March 6, 2008 at 11:39 am
3. Comment #139682 by stephenray on March 6, 2008 at 11:51 am
It wasn't that long ago that I twigged to the fact that creationists don't just think that evolution is wrong and mistaken, they really do believe that there is an 'evolution conspiracy', that there are thousands, hundreds of thousands of biologists, chemists, university and school administrators, book and magazine publishers, editors, film makers, TV program makers, TV company managers, etc - all determined to peddle an untrue story about how organised complexity came to be on this planet.4. Comment #139693 by bamafreethinker on March 6, 2008 at 12:04 pm
5. Comment #139705 by pulsar1z on March 6, 2008 at 12:14 pm
6. Comment #139724 by bamafreethinker on March 6, 2008 at 12:40 pm
The truth isn't that terrible. It is miraculous and wonderful. It is the stubbornness and ignorance that causes the unhappiness.
7. Comment #139728 by Goldy on March 6, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Every evening after dinner, his father, a Sunday school teacher, pulled out the Bible. "We would go systematically through two readings of books," says Godfrey, and devote time to prayer
8. Comment #139732 by robotaholic on March 6, 2008 at 12:49 pm
9. Comment #139734 by bamafreethinker on March 6, 2008 at 12:52 pm
.Amazing - if it was my family, we'd still be hammer and tongs at Genesis. Too mnay inconsistencies in the first few words for it to make any meaningful sense.
10. Comment #139742 by clunkclickeverytrip on March 6, 2008 at 12:57 pm
"He has flirted with atheism but found it too depressing."11. Comment #139746 by Goldy on March 6, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Ah, but if you were brought up, like me, to put the cart before the horse, i.e. the bible IS god's word, so no matter what "seems" wrong with it: it's your inability to understand it. Seems too simple to work but, unfortunately, it does
12. Comment #139752 by Goldy on March 6, 2008 at 1:08 pm
I have to be careful not to fall into the trap of thinking, "If everyone was just as bright, witty, and rational as me, there would be no religion."
13. Comment #139755 by pulsar1z on March 6, 2008 at 1:10 pm
14. Comment #139758 by bamafreethinker on March 6, 2008 at 1:12 pm
15. Comment #139759 by Slyer on March 6, 2008 at 1:14 pm
16. Comment #139761 by Colwyn Abernathy on March 6, 2008 at 1:18 pm
17. Comment #139764 by Goldy on March 6, 2008 at 1:21 pm
If someone tells me they de-converted in a matter of months or weeks - I'm skeptical. It is likely that they; 1) had serious doubts from as far back as childhood, or 2) they were not heavily indoctinated in the first place. For me, it took about 3 years of consistant study.
18. Comment #139766 by Colwyn Abernathy on March 6, 2008 at 1:22 pm
The truth isn't that terrible. It is miraculous and wonderful. It is the stubbornness and ignorance that causes the unhappiness.
19. Comment #139768 by bamafreethinker on March 6, 2008 at 1:23 pm
I'm just so glad I was brought up by irreligious parents...
20. Comment #139771 by Colwyn Abernathy on March 6, 2008 at 1:27 pm
In many ways I envy you, but I guess in some ways I'm better off for having experienced what I did. Many of the best lesson I've learned were from mistakes; mostly my own - some from others.
When it's a 2000 year long line of mistakes you don't know who to be angry with, so you just do the best with what you were handed.
21. Comment #139773 by Vaal on March 6, 2008 at 1:30 pm
"He has flirted with atheism but found it too depressing."
22. Comment #139774 by black wolf on March 6, 2008 at 1:32 pm
23. Comment #139775 by D'Arcy on March 6, 2008 at 1:33 pm
24. Comment #139777 by bamafreethinker on March 6, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Truth is liberating,
25. Comment #139778 by rod-the-farmer on March 6, 2008 at 1:35 pm
26. Comment #139788 by bamafreethinker on March 6, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Really? For such an intelligent man, I find that comment baffling,,
27. Comment #139811 by Adam Morrison on March 6, 2008 at 2:18 pm
28. Comment #139822 by mmurray on March 6, 2008 at 2:27 pm
29. Comment #139836 by rod-the-farmer on March 6, 2008 at 2:40 pm
30. Comment #139838 by Bonzai on March 6, 2008 at 2:43 pm
31. Comment #139845 by Teratornis on March 6, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Oh why must religion divide us so.
32. Comment #139876 by Deepthought on March 6, 2008 at 3:41 pm
33. Comment #139896 by Teratornis on March 6, 2008 at 4:20 pm
"He has flirted with atheism but found it too depressing."
Really? For such an intelligent man, I find that comment baffling, especially considering his career. I would say just the opposite. The religious world is a small narcissistic world with narrow horizons, poor answers and displaying incomprehensible arrogance. To be free of that appalling and limited dogma is empowering and enlightening.
34. Comment #139910 by Duff on March 6, 2008 at 5:23 pm
Rodthefarmer,35. Comment #139933 by GordonYKWong on March 6, 2008 at 6:58 pm
36. Comment #139952 by SPS on March 6, 2008 at 7:44 pm
Rod,I saw east Africa and thought, "a few million years ago we humans took our first steps there. Our brains grew and changed. The old parts began to be guided by the new parts, and this made us human -- with compassion and foresight and reason. But, instead, we listened to that reptilian voice within us, counseling fear, territoriality and aggression. We accepted the products of science; we rejected its methods."
37. Comment #139957 by Podaar on March 6, 2008 at 8:04 pm
I have more than two hundred immediate relatives who are serious mormon christians! I am about to educate all of them.
38. Comment #139960 by jonjermey on March 6, 2008 at 8:11 pm
I came across a wonderful quote some years ago: 'You can't talk someone out of something they weren't talked into'. A slight exaggeration but largely true; and this is why ditching religion will be a generational change rather than a sudden one. What will promote the change is the gradual realisation by believers that atheists are all around them, that they're normal healthy people, lovers, friends, bosses, colleagues... it gets harder and harder to demonise someone when your life is inextricably bound up with theirs. And the best way we can cause that to happen is for us to stand up proudly and be counted.39. Comment #139963 by MPhil on March 6, 2008 at 8:20 pm
40. Comment #139970 by discipline on March 6, 2008 at 9:13 pm
> ditching religion will be a generational change41. Comment #139985 by Wosret on March 6, 2008 at 10:33 pm
Ha! I was raised in a fundementalist christian family that believed all that crap too. I never did, I did buy into some of the objections of evolution when I was like 13, though I never embraced creationism, as I never believed in that God stuff. It always was over my head, and I'm a pretty conceited fellow. I consider myself to be considerably smarter than my parents, and their friends, so them being able to understand it, and me not being able to grasp it, just didn't fly. I came to the conclusion that it just must be nonsense that they are pretending to understand when I was about 12 I think.
42. Comment #139988 by Roy_H on March 6, 2008 at 10:54 pm
43. Comment #139998 by mothwentbad on March 6, 2008 at 11:24 pm
The following quote has been under fire a lot this thread:He has flirted with atheism but found it too depressing. Several years ago, he stopped attending church for a year before returning. He believes in God today, he says, but tomorrow may be different.
44. Comment #140039 by Animavore on March 7, 2008 at 12:04 am
45. Comment #140094 by mrjonno on March 7, 2008 at 12:54 am
What is depressing about atheism?46. Comment #140113 by rod-the-farmer on March 7, 2008 at 1:18 am
47. Comment #140122 by epeeist on March 7, 2008 at 1:34 am
My parents are just too old (75 and 79) to think about things like this and I don't think their heart could handle knowing that I'm not a believer. I stay in the closet to protect them from the stress I suppose.
48. Comment #140137 by irate_atheist on March 7, 2008 at 2:01 am
49. Comment #140150 by YssiBoo on March 7, 2008 at 2:30 am
50. Comment #140152 by rod-the-farmer on March 7, 2008 at 2:34 am
1. Comment #139661 by jimbob on March 6, 2008 at 11:16 am
199 years ago Charles Darwin was born. Geology was popular at that time among religious folks who were looking for evidence for creation -- and Darwin was interested too.Of course, Darwin's other research revealed the absurdity of "intelligent design," but religion is nothing if not virtually immune to rationality.
Next year -- February 12th to be precise, is Darwin's 200th birthday. Moreover, he shares that birthday with Abraham Lincoln.
We should start planning now for a celebration of rationality centered on the lessons that:
- Darwin taught us about the absurdity of "intelligent design."
- Lincoln taught us about the absurdity of the bible being a basis for morality. (The bible is a virtual owner's manual for slave holders, and as Sam Harris reminded us, that bible-based immorality had to be eradicated at bayonet point through the pious Southern states!).
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