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Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

by Wired

Thanks to Dutchie for the link.

Reposted from:
http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/03/dutch-film-fitn.html

Video-hosting site LiveLeak pulled the controversial anti-Quran film Fitna Friday afternoon, citing a barrage of threats.

The 17-minute film by Dutch politician Geert Wilders, posted Thursday, received more than 3 million views before being taken offline. Fitna juxtaposes passages from the Islamic holy book with graphic footage of terrorist attacks in the United States and Europe. In one scene,the sound of paper ripping can be seen as a reader pages through the Quran.

Put together as a warning that Islam poses a threat to the Netherlands, Fitna includes newspaper headlines about terror attacks, graphic images of beheadings at the hands of Islamic radicals, and a riot-provoking Danish cartoon from 2005 that depicts the prophet Muhammad with a bomb in his turban.

In place of the video Friday afternoon, a brief and poignant message appears on-screen: "Following threats to our staff of a very serious nature.... LiveLeak has been left with no choice but to remove Fitna from our servers.

"This is a sad day for freedom of speech on the net.... We would like to thank the thousands of people from all backgrounds and religions who gave us their support."

Wilders released the 17-minute film via LiveLeak despite concerns voiced by the Dutch government and international organizations.

UPDATE: A copy of Fitna can still be seen on Google Video.

Posted: Sunday, March 30, 2008 | Permalink

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1. Comment #152277 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 30, 2008 at 3:37 pm

Fitna accuses Islam of being a violent religion. Well that's been proven to be lies and propaganda by the insidious mendicant Geert Wilders hasn't it. Islam is a tolerant and peaceful religion.
Oh wait....

Islam World's Biggest Religion

There will be a massive uprising of peace loving Muslims to denounce the threats of violence and crippling of free speech. Let us hope.

Other Comments by ThoughtsonCommonToad

2. Comment #152278 by gyokusai on March 30, 2008 at 3:38 pm

In one scene,the sound of paper ripping can be seen as a reader pages through the Quran.

Directly followed by a written statement that the ripping sound was from a page ripped from the telephone book, and that it is up to Muslims themselves to "rip out" the violent passages from the Koran.

This is not an endorsement, I'm just telling.
^_^J.

Other Comments by gyokusai

3. Comment #152280 by Johnny O on March 30, 2008 at 3:40 pm

This is a sad day for freedom of speech on the net

And we all know whose side the politicians and religious leaders will come down on... that of the ignorant, intolerant bigots that threaten violence against those that espouse a view that is contrary to their own.

The one good thing is that corroborates the film's message

Other Comments by Johnny O

4. Comment #152281 by PrimeNumbers on March 30, 2008 at 3:43 pm

I watched the movie as soon as I'd heard it was online. I was disappointed that the point of the movie was not made more clearly, in that so called "moderate" Muslims need to rise up and be counted as moral human beings, who despise violence done in the name of their chosen religion, and excise passages from their holy book that promote or are used to promote such violence. I am however, happy, that the message of the movie was, when you watched it carefully, a reasonable one.

One of the reasons why the Catholics have such large numbers, is that even those who no longer believe in the tenants of that faith, don't leave the Catholic church. The problem with Islam is worse, in that there is a death sentence for any that want to leave or do leave.

So the first step is to change that. We need Muslims the world over to denounce the killing of those that leave their religion, and to enforce the basic human right of freedom of choice. It is totally morally unacceptable to intimidate or kill someone for their own freedom of choice over religion.

After that all religion needs to be put in it's place - personal beliefs to stay with the person, at home, in private.

Other Comments by PrimeNumbers

5. Comment #152282 by bujin on March 30, 2008 at 3:44 pm

I watched it this morning - looks like I caught it just in time! It's a highly disturbing film, and the threats against the LiveLeak staff are proving the whole point of the film.

Other Comments by bujin

6. Comment #152283 by Dog Boots on March 30, 2008 at 3:45 pm

It takes a rare kind of intellectual stomach to bring oneself to threaten people for bringing a movie critizing people for threatening others.

Other Comments by Dog Boots

7. Comment #152284 by Roy_H on March 30, 2008 at 3:46 pm

Now what was Richard's two part TV documentary called again....Ah yes, "The Root of All Evil"

Other Comments by Roy_H

8. Comment #152286 by Jimbesity on March 30, 2008 at 3:50 pm

Muslims know no irony. First with the pictures of people holding signs reading, "Behead those who say Islam is violent!" and now this. It is truly a pity.

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9. Comment #152287 by gyokusai on March 30, 2008 at 3:53 pm

"Behead those who say Islam is violent!"

That pic was a spoof.

^_^J.

Other Comments by gyokusai

10. Comment #152288 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 30, 2008 at 3:54 pm

I assume the ill informed reporting the LiveLeak cites as a reason for the withdrawal comes from the upstanding and considered source the Daily Mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=548528&in_page_id=1770
Dutch MP Geert Wilders claims to be all about freedom of expression - but is he about to engulf Britain in a holy war?

Other Comments by ThoughtsonCommonToad

11. Comment #152294 by irvine.intervention on March 30, 2008 at 4:04 pm

"In one scene,the sound of paper ripping can be seen as a reader pages through the Quran"

How do you see the sound of paper ripping - unless you're a synesthete?

Other Comments by irvine.intervention

12. Comment #152295 by kaeru on March 30, 2008 at 4:06 pm

Wilders, the "concerned" Dutch government and the press all worked very hard to provoke threats. Seems like they finally found some idiots willing to be offended. I see tools on all sides of this.

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13. Comment #152296 by gyokusai on March 30, 2008 at 4:14 pm

irvine.intervention sez:

How do you see the sound of paper ripping - unless you're a synesthete?

Took 11 comments---way more than I expected! But it was worth the wait, for such a clever line. Thanks! :-)) [no irony, I mean it!]

^_^J.

Other Comments by gyokusai

14. Comment #152298 by Adam Morrison on March 30, 2008 at 4:21 pm

re: Kaeru

I thought that would be the case before I saw the film, but it wasn't as bad as it has been made out to be by the media. The other aspect of that is of course, that it takes very little to cause these people (militant islamists) to react with violence and death threats.

I'm not crazy about the politician or the film, but the film was definitely a lot tamer than it could have been and he was definitely within the rights of free speech and not hate speech. Of course the point he was trying to make about the link between Islam and violence has only been proven (tentatively) correct by the threats agains the webhost.

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15. Comment #152299 by Goldy on March 30, 2008 at 4:22 pm

Saudi view...
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1§ion=0&article=108432&d=31&m=3&y=2008

Other Comments by Goldy

16. Comment #152304 by Beteo on March 30, 2008 at 4:38 pm

Good thing I linked to the Google Video at my blog. Sort of saw this coming tho... Sad and sickening at the same time.

Other Comments by Beteo

17. Comment #152305 by rod-the-farmer on March 30, 2008 at 4:38 pm

I watched it before it was taken down, and found it less "offensive" than I anticipated. The idea that muslims would object so strongly to a film critical of the violence in some areas of the muslim faith rather proves his point, I suggest. I wish I had the ability to personally host the movie. I will ask my ISP if they would allow it. If enough of us flood the world with the movie, it may help make his point.

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18. Comment #152309 by gyokusai on March 30, 2008 at 4:49 pm

Here's an excellent article from the online edition of the renowned German news magazine Spiegel. Hopefully they'll release the article in English too; as soon as they do, I'll post the link:

Der Populist, der keiner ist von Henryk M. Broder

I'm too tired now for a paraphrase-translation, so if anyone else'd like to have a go at it, be my guest. It's pretty much the sentiment you'd expect to hear from most people posting here on the RD site.

^_^J.

Other Comments by gyokusai

19. Comment #152310 by kaeru on March 30, 2008 at 4:53 pm

But... what was his point? After the Danish cartoons, Submission and "Muhammad" there is nothing left to prove, or so I thought.

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20. Comment #152312 by dazzjazz on March 30, 2008 at 4:59 pm

What a shame - fuckwits win again. I approve of the film - it exposes Islam for what it is.

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21. Comment #152313 by gyokusai on March 30, 2008 at 5:03 pm

kaeru sez:

But... what was his point? After the Danish cartoons, Submission and "Muhammad" there is nothing left to prove, or so I thought.

It's not supposed to prove anything about Islam. It's supposed to prove a lot about Western cowardice instead: as Broder correctly states in his (German language) article I linked to above, Wilders managed to reveal "new levels of lameness" (my wording, not his) in provoking knee-jerk reactions from the Western media and public apologies from politicians for months before anyone was even sure the movie would ever exist!

And boy, did proving that point did work out rather well.

^_^J.

Other Comments by gyokusai

22. Comment #152314 by Jack Rawlinson on March 30, 2008 at 5:04 pm

So let's link it again.

These idiots really don't get the web, do they?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3369102968312745410

Other Comments by Jack Rawlinson

23. Comment #152316 by RobDinsmore on March 30, 2008 at 5:04 pm

So does the extent to which the Koran in more brutal and intolerant than the account for why Muslim fundamentalists are more violent that xtian ones? Or is it more of a matter of numbers?

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24. Comment #152321 by adam2z on March 30, 2008 at 5:22 pm

It is a terrible blow to the ideology of free speech and freedom on the internet that a group of muslims succeeded in censoring LiveLeak. I sincerely believe that the video should be online. (And i hope google does not remove it).

That said, it was crap.

It uses nothing but scare tactics clearly designed to insight anger in order to get its point across.

If the secular, or even anti-islamist societies of the world want to get their point across - and they have a point well worth debating - they should do so without careening into the chasm that is fear mongering. They must take the high ground.

Other Comments by adam2z

25. Comment #152323 by kaeru on March 30, 2008 at 5:25 pm

I still don't get it. Nobody of those who couldn't have predicted the threats, the preëmptive apologies, the media outrage and Broder's usual ramblings will suddenly start glowing with enlightenment now.

Other Comments by kaeru

26. Comment #152324 by Jack Rawlinson on March 30, 2008 at 5:26 pm

adam2z: absolutely. I thought the film was god-awful, button-pushing propaganda and about what I'd expect from a xenophobic right-wing arsehole like Wilders. It made Memri look fair and balanced. But by hell I will not tolerate the assault on freedom of speech which led to it being taken down. That's why I linked it again.

Other Comments by Jack Rawlinson

27. Comment #152326 by Enlightenme.. on March 30, 2008 at 5:29 pm

Comment #152287 by gyokusai on March 30, 2008 at 3:53 pm

"Behead those who say Islam is violent!"

That pic was a spoof.

It was not - I downloaded all the placard templates from the MCB website at the time, including that one, I still have them on my hard drive.

Spellcheck: It's Tenets, not tenants [post 4, and thousands of other incidences]

We asked for Danish soccer results, and we get this. :(

"But... what was his point? After the Danish cartoons, Submission and "Muhammad" there is nothing left to prove, or so I thought."

Regardless of Mr Wilders' motives - it seems the point of freedom of expression is going to have to be 'proved' over and over until opponents of it get the message.

Other Comments by Enlightenme..

28. Comment #152327 by Paine on March 30, 2008 at 5:36 pm

I saw the film. Disappointingly amateurish. A cut-and-paste job of stuff already available. Looks like he spent all of 10 minutes on Youtube to make this movie. I guess the TV channels are heaving a sigh of relief that they refused to broadcast it!

I thought 'Undercover mosque' by one of your British TV channels was much more provocative and riveting. There should be more like those.

Other Comments by Paine

29. Comment #152328 by dragonfirematrix on March 30, 2008 at 5:37 pm

If news and truth is pulled from the airways (or the Internet) every time a group becomes threatening, those very groups will trample all our freedoms.

We should not give in.

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30. Comment #152329 by PrimeNumbers on March 30, 2008 at 5:41 pm

So, according to Arab News, Muslims don't want to be insulted. Let me give them some advice - don't be so insulting. And stop insulting our intelligence.

When they say "They don’t understand how much Muslims love and respect their Prophet", they don't understand that freedom and free speech are more important.

When they say "But Islam does not teach that, it advocates peace and co-existence", I say, tell your preachers, your leaders to act by example. Learn to stop crying "insult" at every opportunity, to grow up, to become big and adult.

When they say "I am afraid that the Western world has failed to understand the severity of the problem,", I say the problem of Muslims feeling insulted is entirely of their own making. Their religion is their choice. Their feelings of insult are their choice.

When I feel insulted, I know it is my choice to feel so. And right now, they have insulted me. WHen they say “I have my own reservations. Muslims are serious but the other parties are not. They are not committed. They want to hold dialogue, just for the sake of it and for Muslims’ consumption.” they insult me by ignoring the vast numbers of people on this planet with no religion who they have yet to make peace with and have shown no signs or intentions of doing so.

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31. Comment #152332 by Enlightenme.. on March 30, 2008 at 5:57 pm

^ Re 28, Paine
Some of it was from 'Undercover mosque'

One thing I can say I have never seen before, is the head of the man beheaded [with sound also] nor a woman's severed head still with hijab on.

I liked the part where Wilder's states that the actual 'desecration of Quran' tearing sound actually wasn't, and states that that is not up to him.

A possible reason also for this getting pulled was because Kurt Westegaard was unhappy with his cartoon being used for what he sees as anti-Islam use rather than his original intention of anti-Islamic terrorists - obviously an important distinction.

Sadly, Paine, concerning your hopes for the British media to continue to screen documentaries like undercover mosque, this is less likely to happen now, because it was put under serious investigation by the police for supposedly being sensationally edited to sow disharmony - for which I'm pretty sure it was cleared unreservedly, but the message from the authorities was clear - Watch Your Step.

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32. Comment #152335 by riki on March 30, 2008 at 6:06 pm

You can't publish works that incite violence. But at the same time you need to defend freedom.

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33. Comment #152336 by Ben_Ridge on March 30, 2008 at 6:07 pm

Let us all hope that Islam can reform itself from the inside, without bloodshed. I realize that's a very naive hope, but we can dream can't we?

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34. Comment #152340 by LaTomate on March 30, 2008 at 6:34 pm

I can speak Arabic and unfortunately I can say that the English subtitles in the movie are all correct.

Although this video is extreme, and I totally oppose the political views of Geert Wilders, I think this film has its place and deserves to be seen.

Of course, I fear it will cause violence. Violence from offended Muslims, but then we've seen it before for a lot less, and also violence from bigoted ignorant people towards Muslims.

Frankly I don't think we should ever surrender to anyone who uses the threat of violence to suppress freadom of expression one way or the other. I don't care who it offends. We should respond appropriately to any rioting or violence in our societies.

I think my greatest fear though is if we let this political surrender to threats of violence continue, extremist right wing fascism will return to our societies as a backlash. I really am scared of this, and I really think it will be inevitable if appeasement continues.

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35. Comment #152341 by Enlightenme.. on March 30, 2008 at 6:39 pm

I guess one thing we have to ask is; if this was published by the BNP, would we be unreservedly in support of it's legitimacy to be seen?

Still Yes, I'm afraid to have to say.

You have probably seen some posts by a fellow going under the name Fanusi Kayal, LaTomate? - He often says much the same thing - though he tends to go further rather apocolyptically about nuclear conflict and the like also.

Funily enough though - I think we may see less trouble here in Britain - my feeling is that last year's Mohammed the bear incident made some farce of the whole 'taking offence' thing in some quarters, and has caused a sort of schism to develop between those who think this is the way to say 'I'm Muslim and proud' and those who've decided to grow up, and attempt to change British foreign policy through the more grown-up channels.

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36. Comment #152342 by FightingFalcon on March 30, 2008 at 6:41 pm

From the article linked to in Post #15:

"[Westerners] don't understand how much Muslims love and respect their Prophet (pbuh)," said Al-Wohaibi."

And you, jack off, don't understand how much we love free speech and civilized culture in the West.

More unnecessary pandering to religion. Would anyone bat an eye if a movie was made that was highly critical of Communism, Nazism, Capitalism, etc.? The lunacy of religion gets no free passes - its tenets are subject to debate just as anything else is.

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37. Comment #152343 by FightingFalcon on March 30, 2008 at 6:45 pm

Post #32:

"You can't publish works that incite violence. But at the same time you need to defend freedom. "

Oh really? Pray do tell, where did you hear that you can't publish works that incite violence?

I guess we had better ban Mein Kempf at the very least. When do the book burning sessions begin?

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38. Comment #152344 by Dextrose on March 30, 2008 at 6:47 pm

I'm really insulted by the whole Fitna business. Banning the Quran? Please. Geert Wilders is doing an equal disservice to free speech; the kind of tripe he's pushing does nothing to solve the problem of religious intolerance, it only exasperates it, as has clearly been shown.

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39. Comment #152349 by LaTomate on March 30, 2008 at 7:09 pm

Dextrose, I'm sure you'll find he has not called for the Quran to be banned. The closest he gets is a call to Muslims to clean up their act, and to Europeans to defend their freedom. I think I agree with both.

Probably due to utter selfishness. I am an alcohol drinking, in-sex-indulging, gay and womens' equal rights supporting, pro choicing, racist hating, music loving, movie watching, freedom enjoying, wishywashy left winging, evolution believing atheist ex-Muslim.

That makes me close to the top of the list for those whose heads needs to be sawed off with a blunt kitchen knife to some of these extremist, bigotted scum sucking halfwits.

I grew up in the Middle East and I can assure you that these bile swallowing idiots are quite common over there. And also that thankfully not all Muslims are like that, far from it. In fact, my family is full of kind loving selfless not-at-all racist people who happen to be Quran reading Muslims.

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40. Comment #152350 by dragonfirematrix on March 30, 2008 at 7:16 pm

I just viewed the video "Fitna" by Geert Wilders on Google. I think we all agree the Islamic people are violently against humanity, and that the Islamic are beyond recovery.

I know we should aspire to being tolerant, to learning, to mingling, and to accepting differences, but a line must be drawn somewhere. Democracies will never peacefully co-exist with theocracies, and there is no greater affront to democracy than religion, particularly Islam.

The very idea that our president (for seven years) thinks that these Islamic heathens will convert to a peaceful democracy is the biggest pipedream in human history. Mr. Bush, are you familiar with the phrase "when pigs fly?" Please let me know the first moment you see a pig soaring over your head.

There is no separation of church and state in any part of Islamic life. These religious heathens breathe, eat, work, school, and live their god fantasy (delusion) every waking second of their lives. Reality is not an option. The Islamic are beyond recovery.

Strange thing is: We have Christians in our own country (America) with hateful attitudes toward freedom, democracy, civil liberties, civil rights, human rights, etc. We even have Christians thinking their child died because they (the parents) did not have enough faith, when the problem was identified a routinely, by science and medicine, curable decease. Again, reality is not an option. The Christians are also beyond recovery.

So…

What do we poor liberals, atheists, secularists, humanists, agnostics, and just plain freethinking people of reason do to save humanity? I mean, all we want to do is get thru Monday, make it to Friday, so we can have a fun filled weekend with our significant others. Do we just put on a condom and hope for protection from the god (pick one) fearing heathens while the fanatic faithful burn, bludgeon, torture, mutilate, behead, and drown us to death because we do not share their version of religion?

If we allow religions to continue to exist, we are proposing a plan for our own demise, and the demise of everyone else. We need a new plan, which is less tolerant of the Neanderthals of humanity. We need a plan soon because…

…Before it is over, the religious will be responsible for WWIII.

Last thing…

I hope Pat Condell does video on this. There is no one more qualified and more eloquently capable of hammering the affects of religious atrocities home.

Other Comments by dragonfirematrix

41. Comment #152353 by Enlightenme.. on March 30, 2008 at 7:30 pm

Dextrose - to be unbiased, in this video at least, Wilder's clearly calls for the Quran to be changed to *not* the infallible unalterable word of Allah, but to be excised of its uglier texts.

So nothing less than an Islamic enlightenment will do.

It's not realpolitik - that's for sure - but he does not (at least in this video) call for it to be banned.

However, from elsewhere that I've read, this film doesn't cover what I believe you may be correct he has called for elsewhere (but don't quote me on that).

Aidan86;
The MCB is the Muslim Council of Britain, for all it's irony, that placard template was, as I said, in a collection available for download on the site, and I also still have them.
Also - they were professionally made up in a DTP programme, and downloadable as a powerpoint, there were numerous press photos of these, and the homemades, if you only care to look.

"Oh really? Pray do tell, where did you hear that you can't publish works that incite violence?"
...erm, actually, there are are laws you know..

Other Comments by Enlightenme..

42. Comment #152356 by Enlightenme.. on March 30, 2008 at 7:42 pm

"I think we all agree the Islamic people are violently against humanity, and that the Islamic are beyond recovery."

Ah! Mr Wilders little film does have a target audience.

"...their beliefs and religions are not just different, they are barbaric, and disgusting through the..."

Edit; Sigh.. Again :(

Other Comments by Enlightenme..

43. Comment #152358 by Wosret on March 30, 2008 at 7:54 pm

I don't know why, but this whole thing reminds me of the political video that won the youtube contest. It really scares me that that pro-islamic video won. It shows a women and burka, and a pop-idol or whatever and the words "free" and "repressed" (I think those were the words, if not similar words) switched between them. My jaw dropped, and that angered me. How many teen-idol or whatever they were suppose to be are beaten to death by their fathers for not dressing like little sluts? Women in burkas certainly are free to dress like that, but the important thing is that they aren't free not to dress like that.

It sickens me that a video about how muslims aren't all that bad, are we really different? Playing an emotional game won. They as people, certainly are the same, their beliefs and religions are not just different, they are barbaric, and disgusting through the eyes of any moral and enlightened individual.

Sometimes I fear that just having facts and reason on your side isn't enough. More people seem to respond to emotional ploys more, and pretty lies. I think they're winning the PR battle.

Especially when all they have to do is threaten, and everyone complies, because we know that the crazy fucks seem to just be looking for an excuse to kill people in defence of islam.

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44. Comment #152359 by Absinthius on March 30, 2008 at 7:55 pm

I doubt Geert Wilders has such a moralistic goal as we contribute to him, I think he just is polarizing, the whole fiasco going with this movie shows a valid problem.

Both the calimero-syndrome of the muslim faith and the excessive cowardice of the dutch government regarding the possible appearance of a movie of which nobody knew the contents, are true problems.

Mr. Wilders has not even once held a decent public debate regarding his moves and motives and seems to be consistently running away from such a confrontation. If his points are of such nature as the ones that are expressed by the people on the RD side, I doubt Mr. Wilders is doing any more than blindly copying them.

Its a point well made, but nevertheless Mr. Wilders is just as bad as an attention-horny insulting lunatic.

Other Comments by Absinthius

45. Comment #152364 by Gymnopedie on March 30, 2008 at 8:14 pm

Wilders is a shock politician with little in the way of policies, but the movie is accurate. All the events in the film are uncontroversial enough for everyone to rally behind and condemn. But, for some reason, people pretend the film is some racist piece of trash and condemn the film, rather then the terrorism. Nobody likes Wilders, fine, but let's (everyone, not just posters here) focus on the real issues.

Other Comments by Gymnopedie

46. Comment #152366 by utelme on March 30, 2008 at 8:20 pm

"It uses nothing but scare tactics clearly designed to insight anger in order to get its point across.

If the secular, or even anti-islamist societies of the world want to get their point across - and they have a point well worth debating - they should do so without careening into the chasm that is fear mongering. They must take the high ground."

No wonder the world is in so much trouble with religious nuts. Half of us are blind..haven't you seen the placards these idiots hold up. Haven't you noticed that the ones that incite to violence are their mullahs (priests?), the very ones that have studied the crap out of their "holy books". They must be getting their shit ideology from somewhere! I can only come to one conclusion, either some of us are puling cowards or deliberately blind.

Other Comments by utelme

47. Comment #152367 by Enlightenme.. on March 30, 2008 at 8:31 pm

*News update*

Satanic verses play now being staged in germany.

Also in the news report (BBC 24):

"A fatwa calling for Rushdie to be executed was issued by Ayatollah Khomeini in 1989, and is still in force today"

I didn't know that, I actually thought that the Fatwa calling for his death had been rescinded, am I wrong?

I was wrong:
Wiki:
On September 24, 1998, as a precondition to the restoration of diplomatic relations with Britain, the Iranian government, then headed by Mohammad Khatami, gave a public commitment that it would "neither support nor hinder assassination operations on Rushdie." Hardliners in Iran have, however, continued to reaffirm the death sentence. In early 2005, Khomeini's fatwa was reaffirmed by Iran's spiritual leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, in a message to Muslim pilgrims making the annual pilgrimage to Mecca. Additionally, the Revolutionary Guards have declared that the death sentence on him is still valid. Iran has rejected requests to withdraw the fatwa on the basis that only the person who issued it may withdraw it, and the person who issued it is dead.

Other Comments by Enlightenme..

48. Comment #152368 by Bonzai on March 30, 2008 at 8:32 pm

I don't know why, but this whole thing reminds me of the political video that won the youtube contest. It really scares me that that pro-islamic video won. It shows a women and burka, and a pop-idol or whatever and the words "free" and "repressed" (I think those were the words, if not similar words) switched between them. My jaw dropped, and that angered me. How many teen-idol or whatever they were suppose to be are beaten to death by their fathers for not dressing like little sluts? Women in burkas certainly are free to dress like that, but the important thing is that they aren't free not to dress like that.

Actually, that kind of attitude is quite prevalent among some naive secular "leftists". Let's celebrate "cultural diversity" as long as we don't have to endure their practice. I use "leftists" in quote because they betray the traditional leftist ideals of universalism and embrace a kind of toxic identity politics. If you are a white guy and beat your girl friend you should have your sorry arse hauled to jail,--which I agree,--but if you are a Muslim from Pakistan somehow that deserves some special considerations.

Some of my friends are among these "new leftists" and it is frustrating to even have a sensible debate with them. For example, when I said that gays got executed in Islamic countries, they retorted by saying that we are just as homophobic in the West because many people don't support same sex marriage. I mean, hello? I am gay, I certainly don't think not being able to marry is quite in the same league as being beheaded in public,

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49. Comment #152374 by FightingFalcon on March 30, 2008 at 8:58 pm

Post #42

"Oh really? Pray do tell, where did you hear that you can't publish works that incite violence?"
...erm, actually, there are are laws you know.. "

Perhaps in Europe, where freedom has little meaning anymore. I guess we Americans are too fanatically devoted to our 1st Amendment to start banning a work simply because it incites violence.

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50. Comment #152375 by robotaholic on March 30, 2008 at 9:16 pm

This is not a racist comment. This is just what I have encountered. In the few times I have been exposed to humans who purported to be from the middle east, I have noticed ozochrotia. I believe it is caused by the lack of anti-perspirant/deoderant.

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