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Expelled producers accused of copyright infringement
by NCSE, XVIVO
http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/news/2008/US/301_expelled_producers_accused_of__4_9_2008.asp
On April 9, 2008, XVIVO, the animation company which produced an award-winning animation of "The Inner Life of the Cell," charged producers of a forthcoming "intelligent design" film with copyright infringement. In a letter to Logan Craft, chairman of Premise Media Corp., the producer of Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed (featuring Ben Stein), XVIVO claimed that a segment of Expelled portraying the complexity of the cell is patterned upon segments of their well-known animation, produced on behalf of Harvard University.
Biologist P. Z. Myers, who was interviewed for the film, has posted a side-by-side comparison of the animations in Expelled with the XVIVO animation, writing, "do notice that they both have roughly the same layout and the same elements in view; this is a remarkable, umm, coincidence, since these are highly edited, selected renderings, with many molecules omitted ... and curiously, they've both left out the same things."
In their letter (PDF), XVIVO's David Bolinsky and Michael Astrachan contended that:
We have obtained promotional material for the "Expelled" film, presented on a DVD, that clearly shows in the "cell segment" the virtual identical depiction of material from the "inner life" video. We particularly refer to the segment of the "Expelled" film purporting to show the "walk in" models of kinesic activities in cellular mechanisms. The segments depicting these models in your film are clearly based upon, and copied from, material in the "Inner Life" video.
XVIVO demanded that Premise Media "remove the infringing segment from all copies of the 'Expelled" film prior to its scheduled commercial release on or before April 18, 2008."
Also see:
Peter Irons drafts a letter
Comments 1 - 46 of 46 |
Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers2. Comment #157976 by Will in Aus on April 9, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Well well well, what a surprise that they'd resort to plagiarism to get their stupid message across. Just another example of how rubbish this film really must be. Other Comments by Will in Aus
3. Comment #157980 by Neoriceisgood on April 9, 2008 at 11:32 pm
This is great, I immediatly knew which animation it was when it was first mentioned as I had seen it a few times; and would really hope that the people who created it wouldn't be happy with it being used in such an unscientific "documentary" [if you can call it that way]I wonder what the next "bad" news about this movie will be :)
Other Comments by Neoriceisgood
4. Comment #157988 by Tres on April 9, 2008 at 11:57 pm
Countdown until they spin this as "Big science holding back competing theories"Other Comments by Tres
5. Comment #157989 by kintaro_crab on April 9, 2008 at 11:58 pm
Just deserts anyone? Other Comments by kintaro_crab
6. Comment #157997 by Apemanblues on April 10, 2008 at 12:32 am
First lying and now possible theft. Dear oh dear. Big Pseudo-science seems to be in big trouble. Other Comments by Apemanblues
7. Comment #157998 by Partisan on April 10, 2008 at 12:36 am
The thought of this film being hacked to pieces intellectually, morally and now legally before it's even released makes me feel all warm and tingly inside *big smile* Other Comments by Partisan
8. Comment #158000 by MaxD on April 10, 2008 at 12:40 am
Isn't this the second time a big creationist production has had this happen? Other Comments by MaxD
9. Comment #158002 by Quine on April 10, 2008 at 12:51 am
Hopefully, the Expelled producers have taken steps to cover up the infringement. If so, given their level of competency, they will be caught at it, and that would cross over to the criminal law side of the fence. Other Comments by Quine
10. Comment #158006 by Philip1978 on April 10, 2008 at 1:07 am
God is not going to like them very much for this is He!I wonder if The Killers music was allowed by the band?
That could prove interesting too!
:)
Philip
Other Comments by Philip1978
11. Comment #158008 by PJG on April 10, 2008 at 1:08 am
This is just great!
There is a God after all !!!!!! :o)
Other Comments by PJG
12. Comment #158025 by irate_atheist on April 10, 2008 at 2:11 am
My heart bleeds for them. It's such a shame. Other Comments by irate_atheist
13. Comment #158048 by DamnDirtyApe on April 10, 2008 at 3:01 am
Ah, I knew this movie would strike a chord with the right audience...Other Comments by DamnDirtyApe
14. Comment #158057 by Koreman on April 10, 2008 at 3:11 am
It's a conspiracy. It's not a coincidence cells look the same. Portraits of people look the same too. Hah!And even if it was xeroxed, the lord holds every copyright in the world eventually. He is the soul owner, so to speak. As young earth scientists represent the lord all copyright basically belongs to them. They might even sue Harvard for making animations of copyrighted material without divine permission.
Serious young earth scientists of course know there is no such thing as cells. Flesh and blood is all there is and it's a punishment. What you see through a microscope is a test of faith. Nobody can see a cell directly so it cannot be proven and so godditit. It seems that Stein is winning over and over.
Other Comments by Koreman
15. Comment #158064 by Corylus on April 10, 2008 at 3:29 am
A bit of good news for the morning.
I wonder whether this will delay the release date? That is the sort of thing that costs film companies money.
Other Comments by Corylus
16. Comment #158094 by Acleron on April 10, 2008 at 4:15 am
It looks like Peter Irons is the XVIVO lawyer. The Expelled producers beter start cutting out the animation immediately because Irons just loves these cases.http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/the_inevitable_has_occurred.php
Other Comments by Acleron
17. Comment #158119 by Benjamin P. on April 10, 2008 at 5:05 am
Any questions, why PZ was "expelled"? I think nobody should notice before the release. Other Comments by Benjamin P.
18. Comment #158146 by Vaal on April 10, 2008 at 6:14 am
PZ has added to his blog a letter from Peter Irons (Attorney at Law) to the expelled producers. Guess they may be changing the date of their release... April 18th 2009? I would LOVE to be in their office to see all those headless chickens ;-))http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/04/peter_irons_drafts_a_letter.php#more
They should make another film .. how NOT to make a movie!
Other Comments by Vaal
19. Comment #158151 by Mango on April 10, 2008 at 6:26 am
The troubling use of this particular video by creationists has been known for a long time.http://endogenousretrovirus.blogspot.com/2007/11/di-fellows-expelled-for-plagiarism.html
Other Comments by Mango
20. Comment #158166 by black wolf on April 10, 2008 at 6:55 am
check this out:http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/9669/jewlyingforjesuscy8.jpg
Excreted!:Ours is brown!
Other Comments by black wolf
21. Comment #158171 by black wolf on April 10, 2008 at 7:05 am
Attorney Peter Irons comments (on Pharyngula article):"From what I know of the movie business, and what the XVIVO people told me, it would cost the Expelled producers a mint (at least $100K) to recall and remaster all copies before they go to theaters. So they have to choose a) between that cost, b) delaying the film's release, and c) keeping the segment in and risking a lawsuit. XVIVO does have a really good copyright lawyer from a big firm in Boston, so it's not just an idle threat."
Other Comments by black wolf
22. Comment #158203 by rushfan2112 on April 10, 2008 at 7:58 am
Good Stuff. This was bound to happen with any movie that totally forsakes any kind of ethics.
Hopefully Yoko Ono might do something with the use of "Imagine" in the film...I doubt very seriously that she gave permission for that.
Other Comments by rushfan2112
23. Comment #158226 by bamboospitfire on April 10, 2008 at 8:29 am
This just keeps getting better. Professors Myers and Dawkins must be laughing their socks off. You reap what you sow. Other Comments by bamboospitfire
24. Comment #158229 by Luthien on April 10, 2008 at 8:36 am
rushfan2112:
Hopefully Yoko Ono might do something with the use of "Imagine" in the film...I doubt very seriously that she gave permission for that.
They WHAT? In what context did they use it?
Other Comments by Luthien
25. Comment #158244 by Bigorra on April 10, 2008 at 8:52 am
Perhaps this can be the basis for their next movie, "Expelled Again: No Distribution Allowed", an intense condemnation of the American legal system, detailing the ways free speech is being curtailed by evil copyright holders. Other Comments by Bigorra
27. Comment #158299 by kaiserkriss on April 10, 2008 at 9:51 am
GOOD! I hope the XVIVO organization has the financial where with all to follow through with the law suite.
It is always easy to threat a suite, however because of up front costs often difficult to take to court.
Even if the Expelled people ignore the suite, and the suite goes to trial, and are found guilty, they will probably just declare bankruptcy and move on.
It is unfortunate these hideous people will stoop so low by stealing other people's property, all in the name of god.
What should be done is to actually go after the individuals, not the corporations. When it hits them in their own pocket book, they just might change their tune and comply. jcw
Other Comments by kaiserkriss
28. Comment #158315 by Wosret on April 10, 2008 at 10:29 am
Hahaha! Eat that, Stein! Fraud, misinformation, slander, idiocy, blatant and obvious perpetuation of a religious agenda, and now copyright infringement.
What a group of stand-up, god-fearing individuals, or should I say - sheeple!
Other Comments by Wosret
29. Comment #158391 by Elles on April 10, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Yes, yes, yes, yes YES!I'm going to go sing and dance in the streets... actually no... It's snowing and I can't sing or dance for my life.
I'm going to bake a cake.
Other Comments by Elles
30. Comment #158402 by aquilacane on April 10, 2008 at 12:49 pm
It's funny how these IDiots have to rely on the scientific knowledge of the science community they are attacking in order to get an understanding (rip-off) of what they are talking about. They don't know jack, there is no "science" for these IDiots to teach in science class. What the hell would a lab be like in one of these classes? Mix water mud and gum, and you have stainless steel. Um teacher, I don't have steel. Yes you do. No. Yes. No. Ok, no more labs, just trust me.IDiots!
Other Comments by aquilacane
31. Comment #158447 by cam9976 on April 10, 2008 at 2:26 pm
They apparantly know even less about U.S. copyright laws than they do about science. Other Comments by cam9976
32. Comment #158454 by Naturalist1 on April 10, 2008 at 2:42 pm
This is too funny....Not that it means anything in actual fact...but...wasn't it their revered Moses who said,"Thou shalt not steal"? Laughing my ass off....hope they get sued for a Bizillion dollars. Other Comments by Naturalist1
33. Comment #158467 by theantitheist on April 10, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Does anyone have Yoko Ono's mobile no.?? Need to give her a heads up over this.
As for the Killers, i'm pretty sure that in an article i read on them they were pretty into the whole God thing so they might just let this one pass (but who knows they might take a stand, anyone have there mobile no. handy???)
Other Comments by theantitheist
34. Comment #158529 by DavidJGrossman on April 10, 2008 at 5:04 pm
As much as I think that the producers of this movie are douchebags, I don't think that they should be forced to remove those segments. If they were forced to delay the movie to remove the segments, they would only use the publicity to show how Big Science is trying to keep them from showing the movie.
Let them have their copied footage. Then, point out how they stole it and point people to the original video. Let this work in our favor, not theirs.
Other Comments by DavidJGrossman
35. Comment #158561 by A on April 10, 2008 at 6:41 pm
To DavidJGrossman above.This is not how their minds work.
Other Comments by A
36. Comment #158631 by AshtonBlack on April 10, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Hahahahaha... *wipes tear*Now moving on.
31. Comment #158391 by Elles on April 10, 2008 at 12:23 pm
I'm going to bake a cake.
Hmmmmmm Cake.
Other Comments by AshtonBlack
37. Comment #158658 by rushfan2112 on April 10, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Okay, I quite don't know how to quote someone on here yet...sorry noob here....
This is in responce to Luthein's responce to the question about using "Imagine" in the film. Apparently when the prase "and no religion too" comes up the screen apparently shows an image of a Nazi concentration camp...or something like that.
I had heard about that on an interview on the "Skpetics Guide" podcast with Eugeine Scott where she mentioned seeing said song being used.
Other Comments by rushfan2112
38. Comment #158681 by ZekeCDN on April 11, 2008 at 12:09 am
Kaiserkriss wrote:It is always easy to threat a suite, however because of up front costs often difficult to take to court. Even if the Expelled people ignore the suite, and the suite goes to trial, and are found guilty, they will probably just declare bankruptcy and move on.
I wouldn't worry about that. There is a least one "deep pocket" behind Expelled. Walt Ruloff, listed in the IMDB credits as writer and producer, is a multimillionaire software mogul who financed the movie out of his own pocket. There's no reason a plaintiff couldn't name both Premise Media and Ruloff as defendants in a suit to preclude such a bankruptcy strategy.
Edit: Now that I've read the letter sent to Premise, XVIVO's beef is not a financial one. They are simply demanding that the clip be removed from the film ... which actually makes even more sense, given the situation.
Other Comments by ZekeCDN
39. Comment #158693 by DavidJGrossman on April 11, 2008 at 12:52 am
It sure is a heavy burden being right all the time. :)
http://blog.coincidencetheories.com/?p=187
- Dave
Other Comments by DavidJGrossman
40. Comment #158737 by DavidJGrossman on April 11, 2008 at 1:48 am
TED video with Inner Life animator David Bolinsky:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id2rZS59xSE
- Dave
Other Comments by DavidJGrossman
41. Comment #158739 by bamboospitfire on April 11, 2008 at 1:58 am
Kaiserkriss - law suite? Is that like a really, really expensive hotel room?
ZekeCDN - if the Expelled producers press on without removing the clip, watch it turn 'financial' very quickly. ;-)
Other Comments by bamboospitfire
42. Comment #158750 by ZekeCDN on April 11, 2008 at 2:17 am
Bamboospitfire: Absolutely! But I doubt they will, because XVIVO could then apply for an injunction to halt all public showings. Ruloff is apparently loaded, but I doubt he wants this turkey of a movie to be a total loss. Other Comments by ZekeCDN
43. Comment #158758 by mmurray on April 11, 2008 at 2:35 am
Okay, I quite don't know how to quote someone on here yet...sorry noob here....
Have a look at the link saying [Comment Posting Guidelines] above the comment box. You can use any HTML code I think. The trick for the blockquote is to
<blockquote> put text between tags like this </blockquote>
Michael
Other Comments by mmurray
44. Comment #158849 by rod-the-farmer on April 11, 2008 at 5:48 am
I can imagine several possible legal outcomes.(1) The movie makers remove the copied section. Problem solved, unless the owners want damages.
(2) The movie makers offer to buy a license so they can continue to use it. XVIVO agrees to a sum. Problem solved.
(3) The movie makers offer to buy a license so they can continue to use it. XVIVO refuses, no matter what fee is offered. Likelihood approaches 100%, IMHO.
(4) The movie makers do not have a license, for whatever reason, and continue to use the copied section. Now XVIVO can sue for financial damages against whatever revenue the film generated.
Disclaimer on: I am not a lawyer, this is just my thinking. disclaimer off.
Other Comments by rod-the-farmer
45. Comment #158917 by BW022 on April 11, 2008 at 7:06 am
To DavidJGrossman:First, I would think that there are legal reasons why you can't allow someone to use your works for long periods of time and then later claim that they were violating copyright.
Second, XVIVO is a business. While others might have reasons to see the film look bad in order to blunt their message, that isn't XVIVOs issue. They want to stop folks from profiting off their works and to ensure that others do not try it.
Third, creationists will spin any outcome into a conspiracy against them. Court trials, school board meetings, film reviews, etc. are all somebody afraid of their ideas and trying to cover up the truth. Whether they spin XVIVOs copyright shouldn't affect XVIVO (or we) approach the issue. Creationists could certainly 'spin' it even if XVIVO didn't stop them -- i.e. "See they are afraid that the publicity will show that ID is right." or "You know we didn't steal it, otherwise you would have sued us months ago."
XVIVO should just to the right thing and not worry about what hay the other side makes out of it. If the film is delayed, isn't released, is released as is and needs to be sued, etc. let the creationists spin it anyway they like. In the end, the public will get the facts -- YouTube, the press, transcripts from the lawsuit, etc. Maybe PBS will run a "Making of Expelled" documentary?
Other Comments by BW022
46. Comment #158927 by kaiserkriss on April 11, 2008 at 7:17 am
bamboospitfire: HA, Ha... you caught me. Should be more careful with spellcheck!!
I can see this turning into a money and "conspiricy against ID" issue very quickly. jcw
Other Comments by kaiserkriss
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1. Comment #157974 by Raiko on April 9, 2008 at 11:16 pm
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