Friday, May 16, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version

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Malaysia woman scores rare legal win to quit Islam

by Reuters

Thanks to SPS for the link.

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSKLR29947320080508

Malaysia woman scores rare legal win to quit Islam

KUALA LUMPUR (Reuters) - A Malaysian religious court granted a woman's wish to formally renounce Islam on Thursday, a decision described by her lawyer as a landmark case that could enable many others to leave the faith.

Islamic courts in the mainly Muslim nation rarely allow Muslims to convert to other religions. Often, they prescribe counseling or sometimes even fine them for apostasy.

"It's a landmark case," said lawyer Ahmad Jailani Abdul Ghani, who represented Siti Fatimah Tan Abdullah, 38, in her two-year court battle to convert back to Buddhism from Islam.

Siti Fatimah, an ethnic Chinese woman formerly known as Tan Ean Huang, had converted to Islam in 1998 in order to marry her Muslim lover at the time. In Malaysia, non-Muslims must convert to Islam before they can legally marry a Muslim.

But Siti Fatimah later broke up with her husband and in 2006 sought to have her conversion to Islam annulled, Ahmad Jailani said, adding that she had never practiced as a Muslim and had only adopted Islam in name to ensure her marriage was recognized.

The lawyer said the ruling was important because it accepted that Muslims could renounce Islam on the grounds that they had never really practiced the faith.

"We brought in two witnesses from her family to say that (because of) the way she prays and way she lives in her house, she is not a Muslim," Ahmad Jailani said.

Islam is Malaysia's official religion, but a big minority of around 40 percent of Malaysians profess other faiths such as Buddhism, Hinduism and Christianity.

Islamic affairs are governed at state level, so Thursday's ruling by the Penang Sharia High Court does not necessarily form a precedent for sharia courts in Malaysia's 12 other states.

hmad Jailani said the Penang state religious council, which had opposed Siti's renunciation of Islam, had signaled it was likely to appeal the ruling.

(Reporting by Mark Bendeich; Editing by John Chalmers)

Posted: Friday, May 16, 2008 | Permalink

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1. Comment #180941 by AshtonBlack on May 16, 2008 at 7:28 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, didn't we already know this titbit of news? (Alternatively, I may have read about it on the RD.net Forum)

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2. Comment #180943 by Quetzalcoatl on May 16, 2008 at 7:34 am

AshtonBlack-

it's new to this site, I think.

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3. Comment #180949 by riki on May 16, 2008 at 7:41 am

I started a thread about this a few weeks back.

http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=43640

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4. Comment #180952 by Murky on May 16, 2008 at 7:44 am

1. Comment #180941 by AshtonBlack

I am with you Ashton. This is kinda old news to me. Being in Aussie land I may have heard about it in the media.!!!!!!!!!!

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5. Comment #180957 by Sally Luxmoore on May 16, 2008 at 7:51 am

Yes, it was on the BBC news website on 8 May.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7389874.stm

I just can't get over the fact that they have to go to court over such a thing.

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6. Comment #180979 by Ramases on May 16, 2008 at 8:27 am

Well I must have missed it.

I guess it is a win in a way, and if it gives people a bit more freedom it is an improvement.

But the whole idea that someone should have to go to court to get permission to leave a religion is ridiculous - more than religious, a violation of human rights. The state has no right to tell people what religion they should follow, or what to believe.

It is counter intuitive too - how can the state tell someone they are a Muslim when they themselves don't believe in it?

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7. Comment #180982 by Caudimordax on May 16, 2008 at 8:32 am

"how can the state tell someone they are a Muslim when they themselves don't believe in it?"

They same way parents will keep telling a grown atheist daughter she's a catholic because they had her baptised

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8. Comment #180988 by Robert Maynard on May 16, 2008 at 8:44 am

Good for her.
I sincerely hope there is no violent retribution for this legally sanctioned apostasy. :|

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9. Comment #180996 by DamnDirtyApe on May 16, 2008 at 8:54 am

Religion nearly made it impossible to marry, and Religion nearly made it impossible for them to part.

She'd probably have been better off without him, but such is life :(

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10. Comment #181006 by AshtonBlack on May 16, 2008 at 9:16 am

3. Comment #180949 by riki on May 16, 2008 at 7:41 am

I started a thread about this a few weeks back.

http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=43640

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Ahhh that was it. Thanks Riki

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11. Comment #181007 by Tezcatlipoca on May 16, 2008 at 9:19 am

I'm currently eating a BLT, with extra bacon, in honor of this auspicious occasion.

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12. Comment #181012 by robotaholic on May 16, 2008 at 9:34 am

wow, that whole place sounds alien to me - you HAVE to be a certain religion to get married? or you have to ask the country if you can stop being some religion? - what in the world?!?-

Islamic courts in the mainly Muslim nation rarely allow Muslims to convert to other religions.

non-Muslims must convert to Islam before they can legally marry a Muslim.

Wow that place is FUCKED UP

Tezcatlipoca lol, I'm gonna have some pepperoni pizza (can you imagine not having pepperoni??)
-I guess Little Ceaser's had better not open up in Malaysia- they wont do to well there lol

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13. Comment #181028 by liberalartist on May 16, 2008 at 10:15 am

This makes me ever so grateful to be a member of the western world where freedom of religion is the norm. It is horrible to think so many people in this world don't have such basic freedoms.

BLT with extra bacon?! Sounds yummy :)

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14. Comment #181029 by Star Spangled Eagle on May 16, 2008 at 10:15 am

I'm currently eating a BLT, with extra bacon, in honor of this auspicious occasion.

Mmmmm, the unclean animals are always the tastiest.

Mmmmm, pan fried fatty pork strips.

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15. Comment #181056 by Layla Nasreddin on May 16, 2008 at 11:14 am

Darn, I had a whole thread about this last week in the Forum...though it was in the backwaters of the "Faith & Religion" board ("Islamic court says Muslim convert can return to Buddhism" http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=44105 ).

I'll say what I said there: after the infamous Lina Joy case, where a woman was prevented from changing her religion from Islam to Christianity by the religious courts, perhaps Malaysia realized that, far from presenting an image of itself as ultra-modern and tolerant, such decisions put them in the august company of countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia. So I think it's a (slight) step forward!

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16. Comment #181067 by mordacious1 on May 16, 2008 at 11:32 am

I'd move if I were her. Somebody is going to whack her to set an example for the other women. This might cause anarchy, and they can't have that.

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17. Comment #181075 by liberalartist on May 16, 2008 at 11:52 am

I am currently reading "Freethinkers: A History of American Secularism" by Susan Jacoby. I am learning a lot I didn't know about various historical figures, Stanton (my new avatar) being one of them. They had to fight to maintain our separation of church and state. Our country today could be like Malaysia if it weren't for them. I think its about time to create a new holiday - "Freethinker's Day" :)

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18. Comment #181084 by ronar on May 16, 2008 at 12:08 pm

@mordacious1

Malaysia isn't such a religious fundamentalist country as those laws make it seem to be. She's not going to get whacked over such an issue, it isn't Saudi Arabia. Most of my family live there as muslims, and most of them do things that are considered 'haraam' (forbidden) in Islam, like drinking. Neither do you see many women wearing burqas (the ones you do see are mostly tourists from Arabia), and it is only the lower classes that wear headscarves.
The religious restrictions are annoying but not really of any grave consequences, although I'd like to see them removed, which I'm confident that they will with time.

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19. Comment #181089 by mordacious1 on May 16, 2008 at 12:16 pm

ronar
It only takes one or two fanatics, that said, I hope you're right and she's safe.

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20. Comment #181103 by Dhamma on May 16, 2008 at 12:35 pm

When I stayed in Malaysia for a few months a couple of years ago I was taught this as well. But considering the muslims in Malaysia are really friendly it surprised me a lot that there is such a harsh law. Many muslims there didn't seem to care the least about Islam anyway. So this ruling is really good as it's saying it's acceptable not to believe in Islam. Hopefully a lot of youngsters will start some form of movement to get rid of a religion they don't even care about.

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21. Comment #181120 by AoClay on May 16, 2008 at 12:54 pm

I step at a time, I guess (I hope).

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22. Comment #181218 by LaurieB on May 16, 2008 at 4:33 pm

liberalartist

I read "Freethinkers:A History of American Secularism" by Susan Jacoby when it was published in 2004. It was the first book I had ever read on this subject and it lead me to this website and the books by Harris, Hitchens, etc. After all these years of existing in the closet, when I finished with that book all I could think was, "Wow! I'm not alone".

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23. Comment #181223 by minhuna on May 16, 2008 at 4:56 pm

"non-Muslims must convert to Islam before they can legally marry a Muslim"

that is SIMPLY not correct. 100% accepted ESPECIALLY in such a case.. many refuse that a non-Muslim man marries a Muslim woman!! A Muslim man marrying a non-Muslim woman is totally accepted!!! why? It is not in the Quran so it must be because many Muslims think low of their women.. like not allowing them to drive in Saudi Arabia..

however, in the Quran Muslims (women and men alike) are encouraged to marry people who follow the true path.. only encouraged!

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24. Comment #181230 by Socrates on May 16, 2008 at 5:16 pm

It was *Ahmad* Jailani who said the Penang state religious council had signaled it was likely to appeal the ruling, not "hmad" Jailani.

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25. Comment #181276 by LaurieB on May 16, 2008 at 8:29 pm

minhuna,

You are correct in that a moslem man can marry a nonmoslem woman. I am told (by moslems) that she must be "of the book" meaning that she must be either Jewish or Christian.

I have read the Koran, but that was at least 25 years ago and I read it in English translation. I'd be hard pressed to call up any useful quotes at this point. In the Islamic world, the religion of a child is that of his Father, therefore, if the Mother is a Jew or Christian there would be no challenge to the family religion. A Hindu or Buddist woman would not be acceptable because they are not considered to be "of the book". I was brought up in the Methodist church and my Husband is Arab/Moslem. In 28 years my Moslem in-laws have never asked me directly to convert, except for one of his particularly fundamentalist cousins who gave me a bit of a hard sell. Only expressions about how sad they were that I would not be going to heaven someday (moslem heaven) where we could all be together and happy. I explained that unfortunately, I would never be able to withstand the rigors of Ramadan, or the Haj. We all agreed that this was completely hopeless. Oh well...

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26. Comment #181386 by vijikumar on May 17, 2008 at 5:36 am

I was born and lived in Malaysia for the first 19 years of my life (left 33 yrs ago) and don't recall any sense of religious intolerance but the Malaysian state,it fucks you up because of its absurd habit of instituting religiously inspired constraints on the behaviour of the populace.
This is encouraging.

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