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Thursday, June 12, 2008 | Science : Evolution and Biology | print version Print | Comments |

Document Saving Us from Darwin

by Frederick C. Crews

This is an older article from October 4, 2001, but well worth the read.

Reposted from:
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/14581

BOOKS DISCUSSED IN THIS REVIEW

The Wedge of Truth: Splitting the Foundations of Naturalism
by Phillip E. Johnson
InterVarsity Press, 192 pp., $17.99

Icons of Evolution: Science or Myth? Why Much of What We Teach About Evolution Is Wrong
by Jonathan Wells
Regnery, 338 pp., $27.95

Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution
by Michael J. Behe
Touchstone, 307 pp., $13.00 (paper)

Mere Creation: Science, Faith and Intelligent Design
edited by William A. Dembski
InterVarsity Press, 475 pp., $24.99 (paper)

Intelligent Design: The Bridge Between Science and Theology
by William A. Dembski
InterVarsity Press, 312 pp., $21.99

Tower of Babel: The Evidence Against the New Creationism
by Robert T. Pennock
Bradford/MIT Press, 429 pp., $18.95 (paper)

Finding Darwin's God: A Scientist's Search for Common Ground Between God and Evolution
by Kenneth R. Miller
Cliff Street Books/HarperCollins,338 pp., $14.00 (paper)

1.

It is no secret that science and religion, once allied in homage to divinely crafted harmonies, have long been growing apart. As the scientific worldview has become more authoritative and self-sufficient, it has loosed a cascade of appalling fears: that the human soul, insofar as it can be said to exist, may be a mortal and broadly comprehensible product of material forces; that the immanent, caring God of the Western monotheisms may never have been more than a fiction devised by members of a species that self-indulgently denies its continuity with the rest of nature; and that our universe may lack any discernible purpose, moral character, or special relation to ourselves. But as those intimations have spread, the retrenchment known as creationism has also gained in strength and has widened its appeal, acquiring recruits and sympathizers among intellectual sophisticates, hard-headed pragmatists, and even some scientists. And so formidable a political influence is this wave of resistance that some Darwinian thinkers who stand quite apart from it nevertheless feel obliged to placate it with tactful sophistries, lest the cause of evolutionism itself be swept away.

As everyone knows, it was the publication of The Origin of Species in 1859 that set off the counterrevolution that eventually congealed into creationism. It isn't immediately obvious, however, why Darwin and not, say, Copernicus, Galileo, or Newton should have been judged the most menacing of would-be deicides. After all, the subsiding of faith might have been foreseeable as soon as the newly remapped sky left no plausible site for heaven. But people are good at living with contradictions, just so long as their self-importance isn't directly insulted. That shock was delivered when Darwin dropped his hint that, as the natural selection of every other species gradually proves its cogency, "much light will be thrown on the origin of man and his history."


By rendering force and motion deducible from laws of physics without reference to the exercise of will, leading scientists of the Renaissance and Enlightenment started to force the activist lord of the universe into early retirement. They did so, however, with reverence for his initial wisdom and benevolence as an engineer. Not so Darwin, who saw at close range the cruelty, the flawed designs, and the prodigal wastefulness of life, capped for him by the death of his daughter Annie. He decided that he would rather forsake his Christian faith than lay all that carnage at God's door. That is why he could apply Charles Lyell's geological uniformitarianism more consistently than did Lyell himself, who still wanted to reserve some scope for intervention from above. And it is also why he was quick to extrapolate fruitfully from Malthus's theory of human population dynamics, for he was already determined to regard all species as subject to the same implacable laws. Indeed, one of his criteria for a sound hypothesis was that it must leave no room for the supernatural. As he wrote to Lyell in 1859, "I would give absolutely nothing for the theory of Natural Selection, if it requires miraculous additions at any one stage of descent."

Darwin's contemporaries saw at once what a heavy blow he was striking against piety. His theory entailed the inference that we are here today not because God reciprocates our love, forgives our sins, and attends to our entreaties but because each of our oceanic and terrestrial foremothers was lucky enough to elude its predators long enough to reproduce. The undignified emergence of humanity from primordial ooze and from a line of apes could hardly be reconciled with the unique creation of man, a fall from grace, and redemption by a person of the godhead dispatched to Earth for that end. If Darwin was right, revealed truth of every kind must be unsanctioned. "With me the horrid doubt always arises," he confessed in a letter, "whether the convictions of man's mind, which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind...?"

In a sentence that is often misconstrued and treated as a scandal, Richard Dawkins has asserted that "Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist."[1] What he meant was not that Darwinism requires us to disbelieve in God. Rather, if we are already inclined to apprehend the universe in strictly physical terms, the explanatory power of natural selection removes the last obstacle to our doing so. That obstacle was the seemingly irrefutable "argument from design" most famously embodied in William Paley's Natural Theology of 1802. By showing in principle that order could arise without an artificer who is more complex than his artifacts, Darwin robbed Paley's argument of its scientific inevitability.

With the subsequent and continually swelling flood of evidence favoring Darwin's paradigm, evolutionism has acquired implications that Darwin himself anticipated but was reluctant to champion. Daniel C. Dennett has trenchantly shown that the Darwinian outlook is potentially a "universal acid" penetrating "all the way down" to the origin of life on Earth and "all the way up" to a satisfyingly materialistic reduction of mind and soul.[2] True enough, natural selection can't tell us how certain organic molecules first affixed themselves to templates for self-duplication and performed their momentous feat. But the theory's success at every later stage has tipped the explanatory balance toward some naturalistic account of life's beginning. So, too, competitive pressures now form a more plausible framework than divine action for guessing how the human brain could have acquired consciousness and facilitated cultural productions, not excepting religion itself. It is this march toward successfully explaining the higher by the lower that renders Darwinian science a threat to theological dogma of all but the blandest kind.

2.

That threat has been felt most keenly by Christian fundamentalists, whose insistence on biblical literalism guarantees them a head-on collision with science. They are the faction responsible for creationism as most people understand the term: the movement to exclude evolution from the public school curriculum and to put "creation science" in its place. The goal of such "young-Earthers" is to convince students that the Bible has been proven exactly right: our planet and its surrounding universe are just six thousand years old, every species was fashioned by God in six literal days, and a worldwide flood later drowned all creatures (even the swimmers) except one mating pair of each kind.

Creation science enjoyed some political success in the 1980s and 1990s, packing a number of school boards and state legislatures with loyalists who then passed anti-Darwinian measures. Clearly, though, the movement is headed nowhere. Its problem isn't the absurdity of its claims but rather their patently question-begging character. "Findings" that derive from Scripture can never pass muster as genuine science, and once their sectarian intent is exposed, they inevitably run up against the constitutional ban on established religion.

But the ludicrous spectacle of young-Earth creation science masks the actual strength of creationism in less doctrinaire guises. According to a recent poll, only 44 percent of our fellow citizens agree with the proposition "Human beings, as we know them today, developed from earlier species of animals." One of the dissenters may be our current president, who went on record, during the Kansas State Board of Education controversy of August 1999, as favoring a curricular balance between Darwinian and creationist ideas. His administration, moreover, is partial to charter schools, public funding of private academies, and a maximum degree of autonomy for local boards. If creationism were to shed its Dogpatch image and take a subtler tack, laying its emphasis not on the deity's purposes and blueprints but simply on the unlikelihood that natural selection alone could have generated life in its present ingenious variety, it could multiply its influence many fold.


Precisely such a makeover has been in the works since 1990 or so. The new catchword is "intelligent design" (ID), whose chief propagators are Phillip E. Johnson, Michael J. Behe, Michael Denton, William A. Dembski, Jonathan Wells, Nancy Pearcey, and Stephen C. Meyer. Armed with Ph.D.'s in assorted fields, attuned to every quarrel within the Darwinian establishment, and pooling their efforts through the coordination of a well-funded organization, Seattle's Discovery Institute, these are shrewd and media-savvy people. They are very busy turning out popular books, holding press conferences and briefings, working the Internet, wooing legislators, lecturing on secular as well as religious campuses, and even, in one instance, securing an on-campus institute all to themselves.[3]>

The IDers intend to outflank Darwin by accepting his vision in key respects, thereby lending weight to their one key reservation. Yes, most of them concede, our planet has been in orbit for billions of years. No, Earth's ten million species probably weren't crammed into Eden together. And yes, the extinction of some 99 percent of those species through eons preceding our own tardy appearance is an undeniable fact. Even the development, through natural selection, of adaptive variation within a given species is a sacrificed pawn. The new creationists draw the line only at the descent of whole species from one another. If those major transitions can be made to look implausible as natural outcomes, they can be credited to the Judeo-Christian God, making it a little more thinkable that he could also, if he chose, fulfill prophecies, answer prayers, and raise the dead.


This is, on its face, a highly precarious strategy. According to the premises that intelligent design freely allows, speciation isn't very hard to explain. If natural selection can produce variations without miraculous help, there is every reason to suppose that it can yield more fundamental types as well. Indeed, Darwin believed, and many contemporary biologists agree, that the very distinction between variation and speciation is vacuous. One species can be distinguished from its closest kin only retrospectively, when it is found that the two can no longer interbreed. The cause of that splitting can be something as mundane as a geographical barrier erected between two groupings of the same population, whose reproductive systems or routines then develop slight but fateful differences. And if one of those sets then goes extinct without leaving traces that come to the notice of paleontologists, the surviving set may not be considered a new species after all, since no discontinuity in breeding will have come to light. The whole business requires a bookkeeper, perhaps, but surely not a God.

In effect, then, the intelligent design team has handed argumentative victory to its opponents before the debate has even begun. As the movement's acknowledged leader, the emeritus UC-Berkeley law professor Phillip Johnson, concedes in his latest book, The Wedge of Truth, "If nature is all there is, and matter had to do its own creating, then there is every reason to believe that the Darwinian model is the best model we will ever have of how the job might have been done." Such a weak hand prompts Johnson and others to retreat to the Bible for "proof" that nature is subordinate to God. If scientists can't perceive this all-important truth, it's because their "methodological naturalism" partakes of a more sweeping "metaphysical naturalism"—that is, a built-in atheism. Once this blindness to spiritual factors becomes generally recognized, the persuasiveness of Darwinism will supposedly vanish.

While awaiting this unlikely outcome,[4] however, ID theorists also make an appeal to consensual empiricism. The rhetorically adept Johnson, for example, highlights every disagreement within the evolutionary camp so that Darwinism as a whole will appear to be moribund. There are many such areas of dispute, having to do with morphological versus genetic trees of relationship; with convergent evolution versus common descent; with individual versus group selection; with "punctuated equilibria" versus relatively steady change; with sociobiological versus cultural explanations of modern human traits; and with the weight that should be assigned to natural selection vis-à-vis sexual selection, symbiosis, genetic drift, gene flow between populations, pleiotropy (multiple effects from single genes), structural constraints on development, and principles of self-organizing order. But Johnson misportrays healthy debate as irreparable damage to the evolutionary model—to which, as he knows, all of the contending factionalists comfortably subscribe.

The Wedge of Truth adds nothing of substance to Johnson's four previous volumes in the same vein. By now, though, his cause has been taken up by younger theorists whose training in science affords them a chance to make the same case with a more imposing technical air. In Icons of Evolution: Science or Myth?, for example, Jonathan Wells mines the standard evolutionary textbooks for exaggerated claims and misleading examples, which he counts as marks against evolution itself. His goal, of course, is not to improve the next editions of those books but to get them replaced by ID counterparts.[5] More broadly, he calls for a taxpayer revolt against research funding for "dogmatic Darwinists" and for the universities that house their "massive indoctrination campaign." What he cannily refrains from saying is that a prior religious commitment, not a concern for scientific accuracy, governs his critique. One must open the links on Wells's Web site to learn that, after consulting God in his prayers and attending to the direct personal urging of the Reverend Sun Myung Moon, whom he calls "the second coming of Christ," he decided that he should "devote [his] life to destroying Darwinism."


What is truly distinctive about the intelligent design movement is its professional-looking attack on evolution at the molecular level. Darwin had famously dared his critics to find "any complex organ...which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications." Having failed to unearth any such organ, anti-evolutionists have recently turned to the self-replicating cell, with its myriad types of proteins and its many interdependent functions. In Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution (1996), the Catholic biochemist Michael J. Behe has asked whether such amazing machinery could have come into existence by means of "slight modifications." His answer is no: God's intervention within the cell can be demonstrated through the elimination of every pos-sibility other than conscious design. Without waiting to learn what his fellow biochemists think of this breakthrough (they have scoffed at it), Behe generously ascribed it to them and called it "one of the greatest achievements in the history of science."

The heart of Behe's case is his notion of irreducible complexity. Any mechanical or biological system—a mousetrap, say, or a bacterial flagellum—is irreducibly complex if each of its elements is indispensable to its functioning. How could one irreducibly complex system ever evolve into another? According to Behe, any stepwise mutation that altered the original would have rendered it not just clumsy but useless and thus incapable of survival. To maintain otherwise, he urges, would be like saying that a bicycle could grow into a motorcycle by having its parts traded, one by one, for a heavy chassis, a gearbox, spark plugs, and so on, while never ceasing to constitute a maximally efficient vehicle. Since that is impossible, Behe declares, "the assertion of Darwinian molecular evolution is merely bluster."

The IDers have closed ranks behind Behe as their David to the Darwinian Goliath. His inspiration pervades their manifesto anthology, Mere Creation: Science, Faith and Intelligent Design, a triumphalist volume in which the impending collapse of evolutionism is treated as a settled matter. In the view of the editor, William Dembski, Darwinism is already so far gone, and the prospect of reverse-engineering God's works to learn his tricks is so appealing, that "in the next five years intelligent design will be sufficiently developed to deserve funding from the National Science Foundation."

Dembski himself is the author of two books, The Design Inference: Eliminating Chance Through Small Probabilities (1998) and Intelligent Design: The Bridge Between Science and Theology (1999), that put the case for irreducible complexity on more general grounds than Behe's. The key question about Darwinism, Dembski has perceived, is the one that Paley would have asked: whether natural selection can result in organs and organisms whose high degree of order associates them with made objects (a compass, say) rather than with found objects such as a rock. By applying an algorithmic "explanatory filter," Dembski believes, we can make this discrimination with great reliability. Design must be inferred wherever we find contingency (the object can't be fully explained as an outcome of automatic processes), complexity (it can't have been produced by chance alone), and specification (it shows a pattern that we commonly associate with intelligence). Since living forms display all three of these properties, says Dembski, they must have been intelligently designed.


Working evolutionists, once they notice that Behe's and Dembski's "findings" haven't been underwritten by a single peer-reviewed paper, are disinclined to waste their time refuting them. Until recently, even those writers who do conscientiously alert the broad public to the fallacies of creationism have allowed intelligent design to go unchallenged. But that deficit has now been handsomely repaired by two critiques: Robert T. Pennock's comprehensive and consistently rational Tower of Babel, the best book opposing creationism in all of its guises, and Kenneth R. Miller's Finding Darwin's God, whose brilliant first half reveals in bracing detail that intelligent design is out of touch with recent research.

As Pennock shows, Behe's analogical rhetoric is gravely misleading. He makes it seem that one exemplar of a molecular structure faces impossible odds against transforming itself into one quite different form while remaining highly adaptive. But evolutionary change, especially at the level of molecules and cells, occurs in vast populations, all but a few of whose members can be sacrificed to newly hostile conditions and dead-end mutations. Antibiotic resistance among bacteria and the rapid evolution of the HIV virus are two common examples that carry more weight than any number of mousetraps and bicycles.

Both Pennock and Miller demonstrate that evolution is not a designer but a scavenger that makes do with jury-rigged solutions and then improves them as opportunities and emergencies present themselves. Typically, the new mechanism will have discarded "scaffolding" elements that were no longer needed. And conversely, a part that may have been only mildly beneficial in one machine can become essential to its successor, which may serve a quite different end. This chain of makeshift solutions is no less true of cilia and flagella than it is of the reptilian jaw that eventually lent two bones to the mammalian middle ear.[6]

As for Dembski, his explanatory filter assumes what it is supposed to prove, that natural causes can't have brought about the "complex specified information" characteristic of life forms. Dembski fails to grasp that Darwinism posits neither chance nor necessity as an absolute explainer of those forms. Rather, it envisions a continual, novelty-generating disequilibrium between the two, with aleatory processes (mutation, sexual recombination, migratory mixing) and the elimination of the unfit operating in staggered tandem over time. Declaring this to be impossible by reference to information theory, as Dembski does with mathematical sleight-of-hand, is just a way of foreclosing the solid evidence in its favor.[7]

By denying that natural selection can generate specified complexity, theorists like Dembski and Behe saddle themselves with the task of de-termining when the divine designer infused that complexity into his creatures. Did he do it (as Behe believes) all at once at the outset, programming the very first cells with the entire repertoire of genes needed for every successor species? Or did he (Dembski's preference) opt for "discrete insertions over time," molding here a Velociraptor, there a violet, and elsewhere a hominid according to his inscrutable will? Miller and Pennock show that both models entail a host of intractable problems.


The proper way to assess any theory is to weigh its explanatory advantages against those of every extant rival. Neo-Darwinian natural selection is endlessly fruitful, enjoying corroboration from an imposing array of disciplines, including paleontology, genetics, systematics, embryology, anatomy, biogeography, biochemistry, cell biology, molecular biology, physical anthropology, and ethology. By contrast, intelligent design lacks any naturalistic causal hypotheses and thus enjoys no consilience with any branch of science. Its one unvarying conclusion—"God must have made this thing"—would preempt further investigation and place biological science in the thrall of theology.

Even the theology, moreover, would be hobbled by contradictions. Intelligent design awkwardly embraces two clashing deities—one a glutton for praise and a dispenser of wrath, absolution, and grace, the other a curiously inept cobbler of species that need to be periodically revised and that keep getting snuffed out by the very conditions he provided for them. Why, we must wonder, would the shaper of the universe have frittered away thirteen billion years, turning out quadrillions of useless stars, before getting around to the one thing he really cared about, seeing to it that a minuscule minority of earthling vertebrates are washed clean of sin and guaranteed an eternal place in his company? And should the God of love and mercy be given credit for the anopheles mosquito, the schistosomiasis parasite, anthrax, smallpox, bubonic plague...? By purporting to detect the divine signature on every molecule while nevertheless conceding that natural selection does account for variations, the champions of intelligent design have made a conceptual mess that leaves the ancient dilemmas of theodicy harder than ever to resolve.

A conceptual mess can persist indefinitely, however, if its very muddle allows cherished illusions to be retained. As we will see in a second essay, intelligent design is thriving not just among programmatic creationists but also in cultural circles where illogic and self-indulgence are usually condemned. And even stronger evidence that the Darwinian revolution remains incomplete can be found within the evolutionary establishment itself, where Darwin's vision is often prettified to make it safe for doctrines that he himself was sadly compelled to leave behind.

- This is the first of two articles.

Notes
[1] The Blind Watchmaker: Why the Evidence of Evolution Reveals a Universe Without Design (revised edition; Norton, 1996), p. 6.

[2] Daniel C. Dennett, Darwin's Dangerous Idea: Evolution and the Meanings of Life (Touchstone, 1995), p. 63.

[3] I refer to Baylor University's Michael Polanyi Center, whose founding director was William Dembski. Despite its Baptist affiliation, however, Baylor has not proved quite ready for intelligent design. Soon after the center was established without faculty consultation, scientists on the campus called for its dissolution. Though it remains in existence, the openly evangelizing Dembski was relieved of his directorship in October 2000. The new director, Bruce Gordon, has been at pains to charac-terize intelligent design as a research paradigm, not an established fact.

[4] We can be quite sure that science will never become spiritual in Johnson's sense—not because scientists are committed atheists but because their job is to test theories against the real-world consequences that those theories entail. An immaterial factor such as God's will can't figure in a successful empirical argument, because it is compatible with every physical state of affairs.

[5] One such book, cleverly crafted to pass constitutional review, already exists: Percival Davis and Dean H. Kenyon, Of Pandas and People (Haugh-ton, 1993). The educational strategy for getting similar works into the classroom is set forth in David K. DeWolf, Stephen C. Meyer, and Mark E. DeForrest, Intelligent Design in Public School Science Curricula: A Legal Guidebook (Foundation for Thought and Ethics, 1999).

[6] Miller's best example is a sequence of experiments run by Barry Hall in 1982. By tinkering with genes, Hall disrupted the mechanism that enables bacteria to make use of lactose as food, whereupon the handicapped cells were challenged to find a way of growing on lactose after all. Before long, and without acts of selection by the experimenter, the bacteria had hijacked another, previously indifferent, gene to serve the missing function, and the entire system then responded with still further adaptations. The result looked as irreducibly complex as Behe could have wished, but neither Hall nor God can be regarded as its author.

[7] Dembski reasons that information can only diminish when acted upon by chance processes. But he has confounded two notions, "Shannon information," or reduction of uncertainty, and complexity proper. For an account of his error, see David Roche, "A Bit Confused: Creationism and Information Theory," The Skeptical Inquirer, March/April 2001, pp. 40—42.

Letters
November 29, 2001: Roger Shattuck, 'Saving Us from Darwin': An Exchange




Part 2 of this article can be found here, but it requires a subscription to the New York Review of Books


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1. Comment #192281 by rod-the-farmer on June 12, 2008 at 4:33 pm

 avatarGreat stuff.

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2. Comment #192296 by PristinePanda on June 12, 2008 at 5:50 pm

 avatarGood stuff.

I know this is off topic, but I'm having a hard time keeping up with the combination of everything posted daily on RD.net PZ Myer's site Pharyngula, and 13 other feeds I subscribe to using Google Reader. Keep up the good work! ;D

Other Comments by PristinePanda

3. Comment #192311 by Frankus1122 on June 12, 2008 at 6:33 pm

 avatar
Both Pennock and Miller demonstrate that evolution is not a designer but a scavenger that makes do with jury-rigged solutions and then improves them as opportunities and emergencies present themselves.


So it is like a kludge.

If this is the first of two articles I can't wait for the next.

It seems so clear to me that ToE will come to be understood by all but the most obstinate.
This:

Neo-Darwinian natural selection is endlessly fruitful, enjoying corroboration from an imposing array of disciplines, including paleontology, genetics, systematics, embryology, anatomy, biogeography, biochemistry, cell biology, molecular biology, physical anthropology, and ethology. By contrast, intelligent design lacks any naturalistic causal hypotheses and thus enjoys no consilience with any branch of science.

leads me to believe that ID cannot sustain itself.

Other Comments by Frankus1122

4. Comment #192329 by BT Murtagh on June 12, 2008 at 7:25 pm

 avatarWow, terrific article. Will we be seeing the second article referred to, soon, I hope?

Other Comments by BT Murtagh

5. Comment #192349 by theantitheist on June 12, 2008 at 8:17 pm

 avatarGreat article, when will ID die? probably 2 seconds before they bring out it's replacement that will once again try to smother the science

Other Comments by theantitheist

6. Comment #192352 by black wolf on June 12, 2008 at 8:35 pm

 avatarYes, ID will not sustain itself in a scientific realm, but propaganda is immortal. When something new is discredited, someone dusts off some old text and just drags that up as new wisdom.

Other Comments by black wolf

7. Comment #192384 by notsobad on June 13, 2008 at 12:02 am

 avatarMiller is good at presenting evolution, but what about the second part of the book, which I assume is trying to make evolution and the Christian god compatible? Is the book one of the biggest examples of cognitive dissonance put on paper?

Other Comments by notsobad

8. Comment #192389 by RussC on June 13, 2008 at 12:29 am

Excellent article, and two new books to read (Pennock's and Miller's).

I particularly like the gift from leading ID proponent Phillip Johnson in the form of the quote in the article. I can see me using this a lot:

"If nature is all there is, and matter had to do its own creating, then there is every reason to believe that the Darwinian model is the best model we will ever have of how the job might have been done."

Other Comments by RussC

9. Comment #192450 by AllanW on June 13, 2008 at 5:00 am

 avatarI'm normally in the forefront of people criticising the standards of journalism about science so I'm very pleased to recommend this article to everyone. Well written, balanced, informed and informative, it represents all that a great overview of an issue should be. Bravo Mr Crews.

Other Comments by AllanW

10. Comment #192452 by Barry Pearson on June 13, 2008 at 5:07 am

 avatarI think it would be useful for the original date to be identified in all articles here, before the quote itself. (After all, people may read only the quote, and not the original material).

People responding here may miss the fact that the original article was published on October 4, 2001.

Other Comments by Barry Pearson

11. Comment #192454 by j.mills on June 13, 2008 at 5:09 am

 avatarA model of clear exposition. Great writing.

(Is this the same guy who wrote The Pooh Perplex?)

Other Comments by j.mills

12. Comment #192456 by Vaal on June 13, 2008 at 5:10 am

 avatarAdded this to my favourites.

Other Comments by Vaal

13. Comment #192471 by robaylesbury on June 13, 2008 at 6:08 am

 avatarAn absolutely superb article. I'm presently reading and enjoying Climbing Mount Improbable and this is just the icing on the cake.

A slight aside, most of my Christian friends are far from stupid. I just think that the whole process of relinquishing faith is such a painful business that they prefer to compartmentalise and cherry pick. As an ex-Christian its lovely to be able to live without cognitive dissonance and be blown away be the wonders of science, reason, philosophy, and the sheer stupendous wonder of being alive.

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14. Comment #192473 by alexmzk on June 13, 2008 at 6:18 am

very nice indeed. i know a good few people who would benefit greatly from reading this, if they had the patience.

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15. Comment #192481 by keith on June 13, 2008 at 6:47 am

 avatar
I'm normally in the forefront of people criticising the standards of journalism about science so I'm very pleased to recommend this article to everyone.

Allan,

I usually like your comments but don't you think this sounds a bit pompous?

Other Comments by keith

16. Comment #192483 by rotaTOR on June 13, 2008 at 6:55 am

 avatarwhat a great read. As someone with only a high school education,I always learn something new on this website. I enjoy the company of intelligent folks.

Other Comments by rotaTOR

17. Comment #192484 by AllanW on June 13, 2008 at 6:59 am

 avatarComment #192481 by keith on June 13, 2008 at 6:47 am

'Allan,

I usually like your comments but don't you think this sounds a bit pompous? '

You're right, it does. I happily retract it :)
Make your own minds up and do your own research :)

How could I disagree with anyone represented by an image of Reggie Perrin?

Other Comments by AllanW

18. Comment #192486 by squinky on June 13, 2008 at 7:02 am

 avatarA very cogent and well-written review.

There is no better way to finish off intelligent design than to gut Demski and other leading IDers' illogic with the razor-sharp blade of hard science.

Other Comments by squinky

19. Comment #192497 by keith on June 13, 2008 at 8:04 am

 avatarAllan,

I expected you to write back and tell me to mind my own fucking business. You must be a nice bloke.

Yes, having Reggie as an avatar sometimes gains me unearned points from the right sort of people. Someone I was arguing with a couple of weeks ago said as an intended insult something like, 'How fitting that you have Reggie Perrin as your avatar'.

That's all you really need to know about him to be 100% sure that he's an absolute pillock.

What about Zappa? In another incarnation (living in West Berlin in the early 1980s) I shared a flat with a German man who was a big Zappa fan. We had an agreement that I wouldn't over-play my Elvis Costello records if he wouldn't ever play his Zappa LPs while I was home. I really did hate Zappa songs that much.

Since then I've learned that Zappa was very intelligent and a good musician and basically a one-off, all of which makes me want to like his music...but I can't.

Other Comments by keith

20. Comment #192514 by AllanW on June 13, 2008 at 8:50 am

 avatarComment #192497 by keith on June 13, 2008 at 8:04 am
'I expected you to write back and tell me to mind my own fucking business. You must be a nice bloke.'

Why would I ever do that? You made a point, I read it, thought about it and your were right. I'm happy to accept criticism and agree or disagree with it.

'Since then I've learned that Zappa was very intelligent and a good musician and basically a one-off, all of which makes me want to like his music...but I can't.'

This is not the right forum for a detailed exchange of views on Frank Zappa but he was indeed very intelligent, he was indeed a virtuoso musician and he was indeed a unique individual. I use his picture for many reasons but mainly as a reminder to myself that being an individual who constantly challenges himself and strives for improvement and excellence is a worthy life.

Whether you like his music or not is a matter of taste but you can't deny the attraction of someone who spent vast amounts of money and time promoting youth participation in the democratic process in the States who also was appointed to a special role by President Vaclav Havel of the newly created Czech Republic but who is chiefly known for his sneering and sceptical music, now can you?

Other Comments by AllanW

21. Comment #192524 by Doctor Dee on June 13, 2008 at 9:15 am

 avatarSpeaking as an admirer of both Reggie Perrin and Frank Zappa, I'd like to chip in here with the Best Zappa Quote Ever:

Scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I think there's more stupidity than hydrogen, and that that is the basic building block of the universe.

That line should be nailed to the wall behind every creationist debate.

It could be accompanied by the immortal words of Reggie Perrin: "Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhh!!!!!!!"

Other Comments by Doctor Dee

22. Comment #192531 by keith on June 13, 2008 at 9:44 am

 avatarAllanW,

No. (i.e. No, I can't deny it)

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23. Comment #192535 by Podaar on June 13, 2008 at 10:15 am

 avatarAllanW and keith,

I agree it probably isn't the right venue, but come on keith, how can you not enjoy "The Adventures of Gregory Peccary".

Really!

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24. Comment #192538 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on June 13, 2008 at 10:32 am



Miller's excellent when it comes to explaining Natural Selection, and his views, despite the cognitive dissonance, aren't so polarizing as to alienate the more moderate religious majority. While arguing with fundies may be like talking to a brick wall, I'd posit the those of a more moderadate religious weal are not only useful in that they may actually SUPPORT the teaching of science and only science in schools, but that they represent those who can be shown reason so to speak.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend?

and no, I've not read that book, but I have heard him speak on the topic at conferences.

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25. Comment #192560 by keith on June 13, 2008 at 11:36 am

 avatarPodaar,

Sorry, but Zappa's voice just turns me right off. Also I've always thought that music should have a steady beat and Zappa's stop/start rhythms just irritate me beyond measure, in the same way that free jazz is capable of driving me out of a bar I otherwise like.

In fact, I dislike both Zappa and free jazz so much that I don't in my heart of hearts accept that other people genuinely like them. I feel they must somehow be pretending - to themselves.

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26. Comment #192571 by ghuckin on June 13, 2008 at 12:28 pm

 avatarWell!
If you didn't know of, or understand, the debate before you read this article, you should be ashamed of yourself if you don't get it now.
About the best explanation I've seen.

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27. Comment #192627 by nogodsever on June 13, 2008 at 5:11 pm

 avatarLooks like if you want to read Part II, you gotta pay The Times: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/article-preview?article_id=14622

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28. Comment #192648 by Teratornis on June 13, 2008 at 7:55 pm

 avatarComment #192471 by robaylesbury:

A slight aside, most of my Christian friends are far from stupid.


I don't think stupidity is the problem so much as overconfidence.

People at every intelligence level seem genetically programmed to be utterly certain about almost everything they know nothing about.

And no matter how many times a person guesses wrong about things in real life, he or she tends to cruise right along forming unassailable opinions about all sorts of things on fragmentary or no evidence, seemingly without ever learning the value of intellectual humility.

Perhaps the problem is that people just aren't emotionally equipped to entertain more than one possibility at a time. Each question must have one and only one corresponding answer. When they lack conclusive evidence, by default people elevate some hypothesis to the status of fact.

People can occasionally realize one of their opinions was in error (for example, the U.S. Department of Energy is taking another look at its generally optimistic projections of future world oil production, given the spectacular failure of its forecast models to have predicted the current oil price explosion) - but at best they might patch up that one specific error, while failing to question their whole approach to forming opinions, which led them to the error in the first place.


I just think that the whole process of relinquishing faith is such a painful business that they prefer to compartmentalise and cherry pick.


Perhaps it is something like coming to terms with one's mortality. It's one thing to acknowledge, intellectually and abstractly, that one is going to die ... eventually. It's quite another to actually face the reality of death.


As an ex-Christian its lovely to be able to live without cognitive dissonance and be blown away be the wonders of science, reason, philosophy, and the sheer stupendous wonder of being alive.


I'll be more blown away by science when it does something about the sheer stupendous brevity of being alive. Of course I agree that life is far too short to waste any more of it than necessary on cognitive dissonance. However, I have yet to meet anyone sufficiently rational to construct and obey a logically consistent value system. Some amount of cognitive dissonance seems to be an inescapable aspect of the human condition just now.

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29. Comment #192649 by Teratornis on June 13, 2008 at 8:04 pm

 avatarComment #192560 by keith:

In fact, I dislike both Zappa and free jazz so much that I don't in my heart of hearts accept that other people genuinely like them. I feel they must somehow be pretending - to themselves.


It seems a number of people have similar perceptions about forms of sex they dislike.

In the case of sex, the equipment must function, and pretending the equipment is functioning is difficult when it isn't functioning, so I'm less inclined to feel that those who don't share my predilections could somehow be pretending as they pursue theirs.

It's not difficult for me to map the same thinking onto the similarly perplexing diversity of musical tastes.

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30. Comment #192982 by ghost9 on June 14, 2008 at 11:34 am

To Teratornis # ---648

Having sucessfully lived the Objectivist Ethic for over 43 years---since I was 19---I have a logical and consistent, science/reality based value system.
No beliefs or faith---only that which is provable and observable---rationally humanistic---only value for value interactions (people, economic, political, etc) allowed---and not the hedonistic or rational ego system as it is often mislabeled in ethics or philosophy texts.

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31. Comment #193036 by Lev-CapeTown on June 14, 2008 at 1:26 pm

 avatarGreat Article>>> Long .. but worth a read

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32. Comment #193126 by Border Collie on June 14, 2008 at 5:03 pm

 avatarI'm not a credentialed scientist. I read Origin, Descent & many others. Struggled through all of them more than once. They opened my mind. They made my view of this Earth, life, the universe, infinitely larger. Not once did I find Darwin appealing to divine intervention or RD's four no-no's. Furthermore, he was, to me, perfectly logical ... like the diamond bullet mentioned by Brando's character in "Apacolypse". It's a shame genetics wasn't really available to him. The ID'ers view of life is way too small. Their "God" is way too small. It seems as if they're stuck in the Lego/Lincoln Logs/Blocks stage of life ... can't see past construction, assembly ... silly, dangerous people.

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33. Comment #193152 by King of NH on June 14, 2008 at 9:10 pm

 avatar
[Darwin's] theory entailed the inference that we are here today not because God reciprocates our love, forgives our sins, and attends to our entreaties but because each of our oceanic and terrestrial foremothers was lucky enough to elude its predators long enough to reproduce.


The saddest thing is that both are true. Not that any god really exists, but the feeling, immaterial concept of god does. I can't remember who said it, but the thought that after billions of years hydrogen atoms look back into the cosmos that created them and fused them into other elements and asks "why" is far more awe inspiring than tradtional theology. In this respect, I say there is still a 'god' however nonexistant he is in reality because there is still wonder, awe, and a real sense of purpose. When I think that the tendency to believe in a god is just a chemical reaction causing misfires in logic, it thank the stars I have that misfiring. I do not mean that we should embrace the belief in god, or the belief in belief. I just mean we should embrace the feeling of wonder and beauty inspired by the same chemical misfires but guided by the truths of science.

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34. Comment #193184 by ghost9 on June 14, 2008 at 11:52 pm

King of NH--

Agree with you totally about the awe and wonder---
but this entire site well says such can be discovered and stand on its own merits in humankind without reference or need of gods, god, or God.

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35. Comment #193245 by elvenearth on June 15, 2008 at 3:55 am

Quote:

"The goal of such "young-Earthers" is to convince students that the Bible has been proven exactly right: our planet and its surrounding universe are just six thousand years old, every species was fashioned by God in six literal days, and a worldwide flood later drowned all creatures (even the swimmers) except one mating pair of each kind."


Having studied Young Earth Creationist literature I can say that the above is rather inaccurate in details. Most Young Earth Creationists advocate a two tier system of science education - the presenting of two theories as it were (just like ID does). Also, most young-earth creationist thinkers would not say that all the Bible has been proved right but rather that enough of it has to assume that it is indeed "the word of God" (and thus worthy of consideration in science).

The vast majority of Young-Earthers do not believe that God created every species, but rather that he created "kinds" of animals, which later diverged and developed (evolved) into the species of animals we have on Earth today. So for example there would have been a Camelid kind that, under various population pressures and environmental factors, evolved to become species of camels and Llamas etc

The last part of this statement is the most inaccurate. Young Earth creationists emphatically deny that anything other than land dwelling creatures would have had to go the ark. They do not believe in whales, dolphins, fish etc being on the ark of Noah.

I think its important to be accurate and well considered when looking at the beliefs of any groups, so thought I would clarify for you.

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36. Comment #193265 by Barry Pearson on June 15, 2008 at 5:17 am

 avatar
elvenearth said: The vast majority of Young-Earthers do not believe that God created every species, but rather that he created "kinds" of animals, which later diverged and developed (evolved) into the species of animals we have on Earth today. So for example there would have been a Camelid kind that, under various population pressures and environmental factors, evolved to become species of camels and Llamas etc
One name they use for that is Baraminology:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baraminology
http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Baraminology/id/1926872

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37. Comment #193276 by Border Collie on June 15, 2008 at 6:35 am

 avatarI don't remember that evolution was such a hot topic when I was a kid doing the fundie Baptist, YEC thing in a rural Texas church. It seems to have gotten much worse in recent years. Religion getting even more mixed up with money/politics caused that, I guess. At that time, Evolution, Darwin, Jews, Catholics, Communists, Atheists, Methodists, Church of Christ'ers and assorted "not saved others" were either taboo subjects or all were going straight to hell ... simple as that. No argument. Everyone believed it. I rather rubbed me the wrong way, though. I actually had some Church of Christ friends and they "seemed" like people to me. (That's another form of the abuse that RD talks about. So even if I'm/you're saved; my/your "other" friends aren't. So they won't be going to heaven with you. That sweet little blue-eyes country girl you have a crush on and your friend that you stand around and drink Grape sodas with will be suffering the torments of hell instead. When one is just a dumbass kid, that's a very hurtful thing to believe.) Then high school comes along and I hear about Evolution. I get a Time-Life book, Evolution. I read it. Makes perfect sense to me. I mean, really, when one is a country kid, it just isn't much of a jump from the everyday artificial selection involving cattle, pigs, sheep, dogs, chickens, etc. to natural selection. I still have friends who believe that if something is not mentioned in the Bible that it simply doesn't exist. I don't argue with them any longer. I don't try to convince them of anything. I'll just ask them, in a friendly way, something like (and this isn't exactly a scientific, logical or Darwinian question) "Are weiner dogs (or chihuahuas) mentioned in the Bible?" Then I just shut up and let them struggle with it. And, sorry, but, yes, the arguments and questions with the YECS and fundies have to be on a toddler or kindergarten type level ... in Texas anyway.

Other Comments by Border Collie

38. Comment #193279 by Border Collie on June 15, 2008 at 7:09 am

 avatarLet's not get caught up in the minutia (stated goals, stated beliefs, etc.) of YECs, creationists, ID'ers, etc. I know what they want. I was raised with them, I live/work with them every day. Their goal is to get a crowbar of some sort into the school system, the political system, the whatever system and then really go to work. They see it all as part of the "great commission" ... to save the world. Their processes might be more sophisticated, but their goal is the same. And, it's not just Darwin they'll be after. It will be any and all reason. I hear it everyday. Even though Evo is the "hot topic", they take issue with math, English, literature, music, astronomy, physics, geology, anything and everything that doesn't fit their little world view. And, although we generally don't hear about it as much, they're working constantly in all of those other fields, always trying to change things to fit the fundie view. So, anyway, it's not just Evo/Darwin that's at risk here.

Other Comments by Border Collie

39. Comment #193284 by ketch22 on June 15, 2008 at 7:48 am

 avatarBorder Collie,
You sound bitter. You claim a "little world view" for those that don't think like you. Isn't the "little world view" really belong to those who can't conceive of a creator and that this is all there is? Isn't that limiting mankind? It seems the lack of imagination and wonder is yours. You can't fully trust an idea or theory when the organizers of that idea have an agenda against another theory or idea. Stop fighting intelligent design and concentrate on letting your findings stand by themselves... do they really need you defending them? And if so, are they without doubt? My problem with the theory of evolution as a stand alone theory without a creator, is that it has never shown me that a creator is not involved. Also, I find it interesting that when a person, such as I, has had an experience with God, I tend to know/believe that a creator has to be involved and I relate to the writings and studies of Peter Kreeft, Behe, etc..., and when a person has no experience with God, he tends to relate to these writings and studies.
A question that always comes to mind is this, if we are who you say we are in the evolutionary chain, how can we trust our determinations on where we come from. How does one know that our view of the universe isn't so flawed... based on human observations... that exponential growth of knowledge is based on some flawed ideas from the past which have just cascaded?

Other Comments by ketch22

40. Comment #193286 by AllanW on June 15, 2008 at 7:55 am

 avatarComment #193284 by ketch22 on June 15, 2008 at 7:48 am
'if we are who you say we are in the evolutionary chain, how can we trust our determinations on where we come from.'

Yeah, ok. So you 'trust' the experience you had ('when a person, such as I, has had an experience with God,') as some sort of truth but don't trust the work of thousands of scientists and millions of hours of experiments that slot into observable, replicable theories that explain reality?

This kind of self-referential arse-gravy describes precisely why ridicule of fundamentalist ideas is the only way to point out ignorance and make any headway.

Other Comments by AllanW

41. Comment #193289 by Steve Zara on June 15, 2008 at 7:59 am

Comment #193284 by ketch22

You can't fully trust an idea or theory when the organizers of that idea have an agenda against another theory or idea.


Sure. We can't trust geologists when they have an agenda against flat-Earthism.

My problem with the theory of evolution as a stand alone theory without a creator, is that it has never shown me that a creator is not involved.


I have the same problem with my understanding of meteorology. The existence of Thor behind the scenes has never been disproved.

Tell me, do you believe in Thor?

Also, I find it interesting that when a person, such as I, has had an experience with God


Are you some kind of expert on psychology? Why on Earth should you expect us to believe you had an experience with God?

How does one know that our view of the universe isn't so flawed... based on human observations... that exponential growth of knowledge is based on some flawed ideas from the past which have just cascaded?


Because those ideas are tested against Nature.

Do you honestly expect us to believe that you have a greater understanding of how to investigate reality than minds like Newton and Einstein? Do you really think you have come up with some amazing new perspective on things?

Other Comments by Steve Zara

42. Comment #193291 by Steve Zara on June 15, 2008 at 8:04 am

Isn't the "little world view" really belong to those who can't conceive of a creator and that this is all there is? Isn't that limiting mankind?


Theism has been limiting mankind for millenia. The idea that God must have done something prevents rational investigation. One need only look at the struggles of scientists in the past, like Gallileo and Kepler, when their ideas clashed with religion.

Theism gets in the way, it says "look no further". It is a danger to science.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

43. Comment #193292 by Mark Smith on June 15, 2008 at 8:04 am

ketch22
When you disagree with someone in a discussion, may I suggest you stick to the ideas expressed, rather than using rhetorical putdowns like 'You sound bitter'. They don't help and are likely to alienate others by your presuming to know something you clearly cannot.

Other Comments by Mark Smith

44. Comment #193294 by epeeist on June 15, 2008 at 8:11 am

 avatarComment #193284 by ketch22
You sound bitter
Oh for fucks sake, what is it with people being accused of bitter? Is the mot de jour or something, I have had it from clearthinker and receivethegift and now border collie is being accused of it.
Isn't the "little world view" really belong to those who can't conceive of a creator and that this is all there is? Isn't that limiting mankind?
Look you stupid cunt. Rather than just whining about the possibilities that we might have made mistakes in our theories why don't you actually present some evidence that your creator exists?

Other Comments by epeeist

45. Comment #193295 by Mark Smith on June 15, 2008 at 8:11 am

ketch22
On your substantive point, I (and I imagine Border Collie also) am well able to conceive of a creator. Indeed, I often do. And each time I do so, I conclude that the world makes a great deal less sense with a creator than without one.

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46. Comment #193297 by Mark Smith on June 15, 2008 at 8:17 am

ketch22
I find it interesting that when a person, such as I, has had an experience with God, I tend to know/believe that a creator has to be involved

Does your experience involve anything more than strong conviction, regularly reinforced by worship, prayer and mutual assurance from other believers?

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47. Comment #193301 by epeeist on June 15, 2008 at 8:24 am

 avatarComment #193297 by Mark Smith

Does your experience involve anything more than strong conviction, regularly reinforced by worship, prayer and mutual assurance from other believers?
Perhaps he got his 72 virgins early.

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48. Comment #193303 by Diacanu on June 15, 2008 at 8:26 am

 avatarepeeist-


Oh for fucks sake, what is it with people being accused of bitter? Is the mot de jour or something, I have had it from clearthinker and receivethegift and now border collie is being accused of it.


Can't you just picture the meeting where they coordinate this shit?

"They seem so angry and flustetred. It can't possibly be because we're stupid and annoying".

"I know! They're sad because they've never kissed an angel on the pee-pee!!".

"Tee hee! Yeah!!".

"Let's go help these poor souls!".

"Yeah! Let's keep telling them how bitter they are! Then they'll be all like 'boo hoo, you're right, fix me up with some angelic pee-pee kissing!', and we'll be right there to point them to the nearest angel!".

"Hallelujah, brother!!".

"We've got the joy, joy, joy, joy down in our hearts!! Down in our hearts!! Down in our hearts!!".

"Wheee!!! Tra la la la laaa!!".

Other Comments by Diacanu

49. Comment #193308 by Mark Smith on June 15, 2008 at 8:31 am

Perhaps he got his 72 virgins early.

Ah, I was wondering why he hadn't responded.

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50. Comment #193310 by Diacanu on June 15, 2008 at 8:50 am

 avatar...I went too far, didn't I?

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