Skip to Main Content (access key 1)
Skip to Search (access key 2)
Skip to Search GO (access key 3)
Skip to comments (access key 4)
Skip to navigation (access key 5)
Skip to top of page (access key 6)
Wednesday, July 16, 2008 | Reason : Commentary | print version Print | Comments |

Document The Return of Religion

by Roger Scruton

Reposted from:
http://www.axess.se/english/2008/01/theme_scruton.php.htm

Faced with the spectacle of the cruelties perpetrated in the name of faith, Voltaire famously cried 'Ecrasez l'infâme!'. Scores of enlightened thinkers followed him, declaring organised religion to be the enemy of mankind, the force that divides the believer from the infidel and which thereby both excites and authorises murder. Richard Dawkins is the most influential living example of this tradition, and his message, echoed by Dan Dennett, Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens, sounds as loud and strident in the media today as the message of Luther in the reformed churches of Germany. The violence of the diatribes uttered by these evangelical atheists is indeed remarkable. After all, the Enlightenment happened three centuries ago; the arguments of Hume, Kant and Voltaire have been absorbed by every educated person. What more is to be said? And if you must say it, why say it so stridently? Surely, those who oppose religion in the name of gentleness have a duty to be gentle, even with — especially with — their foes?

There are two reasons why people start shouting at their opponents: one is that they think the opponent is so strong that every weapon must be used against him; the other is that they think their own case so weak that it has to be fortified by noise. Both these motives can be observed in the evangelical atheists. They seriously believe that religion is a danger, leading people into excesses of enthusiasm which, precisely because they are inspired by irrational beliefs, cannot be countered by rational argument. We have had plenty of proof of this from the Islamists; but that proof, the atheists tell us, is only the latest in a long history of massacres and torments, which — in the scientific perspective — might reasonably be called the pre-history of mankind. The Enlightenment promised to inaugurate another era, in which reason would be sovereign, providing an instrument of peace that all could employ. In the eyes of the evangelical atheists, however, this promise was not fulfilled. In their view of things, neither Judaism nor Christianity absorbed the Enlightenment even if, in a certain measure, they inspired it. All faiths, to the atheists, have remained in the condition of Islam today: rooted in dogmas that cannot be safely questioned. Believing this, they work themselves into a lather of vituperation against ordinary believers, including those believers who have come to religion in search of an instrument of peace, and who regard their faith as an exhortation to love their neighbour, even their belligerent atheist neighbour, as themselves.

At the same time, the atheists are reacting to the weakness of their case. Dawkins and Hitchens are adamant that the scientific worldview has entirely undermined the premises of religion and that only ignorance can explain the persistence of faith. But what exactly does modern science tell us, and just where does it conflict with the premises of religious belief? According to Dawkins (and Hitchens follows him in this), human beings are 'survival machines' in the service of their genes. We are, so to speak, by-products of a process that is entirely indifferent to our well-being, machines developed by our genetic material in order to further its reproductive goal. Genes themselves are complex molecules, put together in accordance with the laws of chemistry, from material made available in the primordial soup that once boiled on the surface of our planet. How it happened is not yet known: perhaps electrical discharges caused nitrogen, carbon, hydrogen and oxygen atoms to link together in appropriate chains, until finally one of them achieved that remarkable feature, of encoding the instructions for its own reproduction. Science may one day be able to answer the question how this occurred. But it is science, not religion, that will answer it.

As for the existence of a planet in which the elements abound in the quantities observed on planet earth, such a thing is again to be explained by science — though the science of astrophysics rather than the science of biology. The existence of the earth is part of a great unfolding process, which may or may not have begun with a Big Bang, and which contains many mysteries that physicists explore with ever increasing astonishment. Astrophysics has raised as many questions as it has answered. But they are scientific questions, to be solved by discovering the laws of motion that govern the observable changes at every level of the physical world, from galaxy to supernova, and from black hole to quark. The mystery that confronts us as we gaze upwards at the Milky Way, knowing that the myriad stars responsible for that smear of light are merely stars of a single galaxy, the galaxy that contains us, and that beyond its boundaries a myriad other galaxies slowly turn in space, some dying, some emerging, all forever inaccessible to us — this mystery does not call for a religious response. For it is a mystery that results from our partial knowledge and which can be solved only by further knowledge of the same kind — the knowledge that we call science.

Only ignorance would cause us to deny that general picture, and the evangelical atheists assume that religion must deny that picture and therefore must, at some level, commit itself to the propagation of ignorance or at any rate the prevention of knowledge. Yet I do not know a religious person among my friends and acquaintances who does deny that picture, or who regards it as posing the remotest difficulty for his faith. Dawkins writes as though the theory of the selfish gene puts paid once and for all to the idea of a creator God — we no longer need that hypothesis to explain how we came to be. In a sense that is true. But what about the gene itself: how did that come to be? What about the primordial soup? All these questions are answered, of course, by going one step further down the chain of causation. But at each step we encounter a world with a singular quality: namely that it is a world which, left to itself, will produce conscious beings, able to look for the reason and the meaning of things, and not just for the cause. The astonishing thing about our universe, that it contains consciousness, judgement, the knowledge of right and wrong, and all the other things that make the human condition so singular, is not rendered less astonishing by the hypothesis that this state of affairs emerged over time from other conditions. If true, that merely shows us how astonishing those other conditions were. The gene and the soup cannot be less astonishing than their product.

Moreover, these things would cease to astonish us — or rather, they would fall within the ambit of the comprehensible — if we could find a way to purge them of contingency. That is what religion promises: not a purpose, necessarily, but something that removes the paradox of an entirely law-governed world, open to consciousness, that is nevertheless without an explanation: that just is, for no reason at all. The evangelical atheists are subliminally aware that their abdication in the face of science does not make the universe more intelligible, nor does it provide an alternative answer to our metaphysical enquiries. It simply brings enquiry to a stop. And the religious person will feel that this stop is premature: that reason has more questions to ask, and perhaps more answers to obtain, than the atheists will allow us. So who, in this subliminal contest, is the truly reasonable one? The atheists beg the question in their own favour, by assuming that science has all the answers. But science can have all the answers only if it has all the questions; and that assumption is false. There are questions addressed to reason which are not addressed to science, since they are not asking for a causal explanation.

One of these is the question of consciousness. This strange universe of black holes and time warps, of event horizons and non-localities, somehow becomes conscious of itself. And it becomes conscious of itself in us. This fact conditions the very structure of science. The rejection of Newton's absolute space, the adoption of the space-time continuum, the quantum equations — all these are premised on the truth that scientific laws are instruments for predicting one set of observations from another. The universe that science describes is constrained at every point by observation. According to quantum theory, some of its most basic features become determinate only at the moment of observation. The great tapestry of waves and particles, of fields and forces, of matter and energy, is pinned down only at the edges, where events are crystallised in the observing mind.

Consciousness is more familiar to us than any other feature of our world, since it is the route by which anything at all becomes familiar. But this is what makes consciousness so hard to pinpoint. Look for it wherever you like, you encounter only its objects — a face, a dream, a memory, a colour, a pain, a melody, a problem, but nowhere the consciousness that shines on them. Trying to grasp it is like trying to observe your own observing, as though you were to look with your own eyes at your own eyes without using a mirror. Not surprisingly, therefore, the thought of consciousness gives rise to peculiar metaphysical anxieties, which we try to allay with images of the soul, the mind, the self, the 'subject of consciousness', the inner entity that thinks and sees and feels and which is the real me inside. But these traditional 'solutions' merely duplicate the problem. We cast no light on the consciousness of a human being simply by re-describing it as the consciousness of some inner homunculus — be it a soul, a mind or a self. On the contrary, by placing that homunculus in some private, inaccessible and possibly immaterial realm, we merely compound the mystery.

It is this mystery which brings people back to religion. They may have no clear conception of science; no theological aptitude, and no knowledge of the arguments, down the ages, that have persuaded people that the fabric of contingency must be supported by a 'necessary being'. The subtleties of the medieval schools for the most part make little contact with the thinking of believers today. Modern people are drawn to religion by their consciousness of consciousness, by their awareness of a light shining in the centre of their being. And, as Kant brilliantly showed, the person who is acquainted with the self, who refers to himself as 'I', is inescapably trapped into freedom. He rises above the wind of contingency that blows through the natural world, held aloft by Reason's necessary laws. The 'I' defines the starting point of all practical reasoning and contains an intimation of the thing that distinguishes people from the rest of nature, namely their freedom. There is a sense in which animals too are free: they make choices, do things both freely and by constraint. But animals are not accountable for what they do. They are not called upon to justify their conduct, nor are they persuaded or dissuaded by dialogue with others. All those goals, like justice, community and love, which make human life into a thing of intrinsic value, have their origin in the mutual accountability of persons, who respond to each other 'I' to 'I'. Not surprisingly, therefore, people are satisfied that they understand the world and know its meaning, when they can see it as the outward form of another 'I' — the 'I' of God, in which we all stand judged, and from which love and freedom flow.

That thought may be poured out in verse, as in the Veni Creator Spiritus of the Catholic Church, in the rhapsodic words of Krishna in the Baghavad Gita, in the great Psalms that are the glory of the Hebrew Bible. But for most people it is simply there, a dense nugget of meaning in the centre of their lives, which weighs heavily when they find no way to express it in communal forms. People continue to look for the places where they can stand, as it were, at the window of our empirical world and gaze out towards the transcendental — the places from which breezes from that other sphere waft over them. Not so long ago, God was in residence. You could open a door and discover him, and join with those who sang and prayed in his presence. Now he, like us, has no fixed abode. But from this experience a new kind of religious consciousness is being born: a turning of the inner eye towards the transcendental and a constant invocation of 'we know not what'.

Distrust of organised religion therefore goes hand in hand with a mourning for the loss of it. We are distressed by the evangelical atheists, who are stamping on the coffin in which they imagine God's corpse to lie and telling us to bury it quickly before it begins to smell. These characters have a violent and untidy air: it is very obvious that something is missing from their lives, something which would bring order and completeness in the place of random disgust. And yet we are uncertain how to answer them. Nowhere in our world is the door that we might open, so as to stand again in the breath of God.

Yet human beings have an innate need to conceptualise their world in terms of the transcendental, and to live out the distinction between the sacred and the profane. This need is rooted in self-consciousness and in the experiences that remind us of our shared and momentous destiny as members of Kant's 'Kingdom of Ends'. Those experiences are the root of human as opposed to merely animal society, and we need to affirm them, self-knowingly to possess them, if we are to be at ease with our kind. Religions satisfy this need. For they provide the social endorsement and the theological infrastructure that will hold the concepts of the transcendental and the sacred in place. The insecurity and disorder of Western societies comes from the tension in which people are held when they cannot attach their inner awareness of the transcendental to the outward forms of religious ritual. People have turned away from organised religion, as they have turned away from organised everything else. But the atheists who dance on the coffin of the old religions will never persuade them to live as though the thing inside were dead. God has fled, but he is not dead. He is biding his time, waiting for us to make room for him. That, at least, is how I read the growing obsession with religion and the nostalgia for what we lost when the congregations shut their Bibles and their hymn books, broke asunder and went silently home.

Roger Scruton

Comments 1 - 50 of 638 |

Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers

1. Comment #211747 by black wolf on July 16, 2008 at 9:31 am

 avatarRoger,
I agree. Gapgod feelz gud, therefor iz tru.

Other Comments by black wolf

2. Comment #211748 by Funnyguts on July 16, 2008 at 9:33 am

The first part appears to be the "they're not talking about MY god" thing.

Yes, actually, we are talking about your god and every god.

Other Comments by Funnyguts

3. Comment #211752 by The Schuermannator on July 16, 2008 at 9:36 am

 avatarThe Return of Religion???

That's funny. I didn't think religion ever left!

Other Comments by The Schuermannator

4. Comment #211757 by mark8 on July 16, 2008 at 9:40 am

 avatar"These characters have a violent and untidy air:"

Look out for the Atheist jihad lead by Richard & co.

"it is very obvious that something is missing from their lives, something which would bring order and completeness in the place of random disgust. And yet we are uncertain how to answer them."

You have not been able to answer the average Atheist for quite some years now.

"Nowhere in our world is the door that we might open, so as to stand again in the breath of God."

That's because he doesn't exist you numpty.

Other Comments by mark8

5. Comment #211759 by b0ltzm0n on July 16, 2008 at 9:40 am

 avatar
God has fled, but he is not dead. He is biding his time, waiting for us to make room for him.


So much for omnipotence. This guy's god sounds like someone my kid sister could beat up.

Other Comments by b0ltzm0n

6. Comment #211761 by jimbob on July 16, 2008 at 9:41 am

Strident? Keep telling the same porky pie and hope it will stick!

As for "satisfying the need." Yes, when life is confusing, an imaginary friend can be so comforting.

Other Comments by jimbob

7. Comment #211763 by Shaden on July 16, 2008 at 9:42 am

 avatar
There are two reasons why people start shouting at their opponents: one is that they think the opponent is so strong that every weapon must be used against him; the other is that they think their own case so weak that it has to be fortified by noise.

Correct

Both these motives can be observed in the evangelical atheists.

Incorrect. Whenever I listen to a debate it's always the faithful that resort to shouting and interrupting.

Other Comments by Shaden

8. Comment #211789 by rod-the-farmer on July 16, 2008 at 9:55 am

 avatar

Yet I do not know a religious person among my friends and acquaintances who does deny that picture.....(The mystery that confronts us as we gaze upwards at the Milky Way) or who regards it as posing the remotest difficulty for his faith.

If this is really true, he needs to get out more. Or at least, read up on the subject on the internet.

The evangelical atheists are subliminally aware that their abdication in the face of science does not make the universe more intelligible, nor does it provide an alternative answer to our metaphysical enquiries. It simply brings enquiry to a stop.

Aaarrgghh. Atheists bring inquiry to a stop ? Does the man have his head on backasswards, or is he truly this deluded ? It is the goddidit brigade who bring rational inquiry to a halt. Atheists continue to ask questions, and explore, and test predictions. Let me think now. What sort of inquiry would atheists "bring to a stop" ?? How about "Why are thoughts ?" "Who is yellow ?" Clearmind, we need your input here.

Other Comments by rod-the-farmer

9. Comment #211793 by F_A_F on July 16, 2008 at 9:56 am

Hmm, the second paragraph is very misleading. I dislike it when a religious "opponent" believes that dogma and unprovable assertions are the answer to my question, and blankly refuse to even consider that their beliefs are incorrect. But please don't mistake that anger for 'shouting'.

We only 'shout' when policies and decisions are made which affect ALL groups of people, both religious and non-religious alike, based upon unprovable dogma and assertions. If you want to believe in fairies, crack on...I won't stop you. But if you try to force me to abide by fairy-protecting laws then I will fight you tooth, nail, claw, finger and eyelash to protect my rights as a human being and as a fellow being of everything on this planet...

Other Comments by F_A_F

10. Comment #211802 by robotaholic on July 16, 2008 at 10:03 am

 avatar
The violence of the diatribes uttered by these evangelical atheists is indeed remarkable.

they think their own case so weak that it has to be fortified by noise


wow, this article sucks- The last thing Dennett, Harris, Hitchens, and Dawkins are is violent. And to call their argument weak or white noise is so backwards that it irritating. It's like speaking about the 'clairity of the trinity'...

Roger Scruton has some serious bags under his eyes too.

Other Comments by robotaholic

11. Comment #211804 by Apathy personified on July 16, 2008 at 10:05 am

 avatarFirst Order of business:
An almighty backhand to the face of Roger Scruton for his condescending tone - arrogant dickpole.

Now onto his article,
A woefull ignorance of science but knowing a few sciency sounding words is not enough, neither is having read 'A Very Short Introduction to Kant', to form an article, let alone an argument.

His whole 'not my god or religion' piece at the beginning showed him for what he is - moronic - he surely can't believe that all religious people accept the findings of science (HAS HE NOT HEARD OF FUCKING CREATIONISM FOR QUETZ SAKE!)

And the continually implied 'atheism is a belief' current throughout his article shows either a deceitful nature or a lack of understanding of what he seems to affiliate with (his pseudo spiritual christian viewpoint doesn't hold much truck with atheists or other religites) and those who are out of the whole sky mum business.

All in all, a very misinformed and inaccurate piece.

Edit: Spelling

Other Comments by Apathy personified

12. Comment #211805 by Verylee on July 16, 2008 at 10:06 am

 avatarJust like any adult "hobby" (nod to PhilRimmer)...It should be practised by consenting adults behind closed doors and not involve the corruption of minors or imposed on those who have better things to do with their time.

Other Comments by Verylee

13. Comment #211808 by matlot on July 16, 2008 at 10:06 am

I tend to disagree with just about everything Scruton says. But this makes him a vital philosopher. Contrary opinions must be encouraged and engaged with. Scruton performs this function admirably (fox hunting anyone?). J.S. Mill described the importance of allowing 'unorthodox' views. It is as vital to heed Scruton's words as it is vital to point out that most of them are bullshit.

Do you remember the Four Horsemen discussion? Hitchens shocked Dawkins by asserting that he had no wish for the religious dialogue to disapear. I laughed out loud at Richard's astonishment. But thinking about, Hitchens was completely right. I would never have understood the strength of atheistic arguments if those that hold religious views were suddenly to evaporate. Similarly, I would never understand the theory of natural selection as well as I do now (albeit I remain no expert) if dissenting voices did not exist.

Long live Scruton and religious apologist bullshit!

Other Comments by matlot

14. Comment #211812 by designsoda on July 16, 2008 at 10:13 am

 avatar
The violence of the diatribes uttered by these evangelical atheists is indeed remarkable


"Violence?"

"Evangelical?"

Projection.

Other Comments by designsoda

15. Comment #211815 by AdrianB on July 16, 2008 at 10:16 am

 avatar23.2: And low the theists spoke angrily and stridently against the infidel for being strident.

23.3: And so it came to pass that their arguments were ridiculed and dismissed with much sniggering.

.

Other Comments by AdrianB

16. Comment #211816 by info_dump on July 16, 2008 at 10:16 am

 avatarHis descriptions of the "new atheist" writings makes it seem like he hasn't read any of them. It also sounds like his familiarity with science is limited to what he's seen on TV shows.

I stopped reading closely as soon as he said "according to quantum theory..."

Other Comments by info_dump

17. Comment #211820 by David J on July 16, 2008 at 10:18 am

 avatarModern people are drawn to religion by their consciousness of consciousness, by their awareness of a light shining in the centre of their being.

WTF? I think most people are drawn to it because religion captures them when they're children, then, while in these delicate years, scares the shit out of them for even thinking - let alone attempting - to leave it for something else, even telling them that they're happier and better off for living with it to the point of self-deception.

Other Comments by David J

18. Comment #211821 by alexmzk on July 16, 2008 at 10:21 am

didn't read past the first couple of paragraphs. for the record, in all the debates i've watched, all the tv programs i've seen, all the talks i've been to, i have never once heard Dennett or Dawkins raise their voices. i don't know enough about Harris or Hitchens to say the same for them, but i suspect they too are less than violent.

Other Comments by alexmzk

19. Comment #211825 by artificialhabitat on July 16, 2008 at 10:23 am

 avatar3 lines in: "Richard Dawkins"
5 lines in: "strident"

Any point reading the rest?

Other Comments by artificialhabitat

20. Comment #211827 by SASnSA on July 16, 2008 at 10:23 am

I'm still waiting for religion to release it's strangle-hold on the US, so I can be considered a citizen and a patriot again. It hasn't gone anywhere, in fact it seems to be reaching new highs in low.

Other Comments by SASnSA

21. Comment #211829 by mordacious1 on July 16, 2008 at 10:26 am

 avatarfucktard

Ooops! I forgot. I'm supposed to be strident:

F U C K T A R D !

That's more like an atheist.

{edit for spelling} Can't believe I spelled the first fucktard wrong.

Other Comments by mordacious1

22. Comment #211832 by Steve Zara on July 16, 2008 at 10:28 am

Comment #211747 by black wolf

I was going to post something with some detail, but then I realise that your post summed up this entire article so well.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

23. Comment #211837 by mordacious1 on July 16, 2008 at 10:30 am

 avatar"Axess is a magazine, based in Stockholm, devoted chiefly to the liberal arts and social sciences. The magazine strives, above all, for quality of thought and writing, but without being defined by a single political position. The hallmark of Axess is the essay; characterised by a probing, investigative approach. The magazine is open to differing arguments and standpoints, driven by reason rather than polemic."

Yeah, right. Especially the last clause.

Other Comments by mordacious1

24. Comment #211842 by bugaboo on July 16, 2008 at 10:35 am

There are two reasons why people start shouting at their opponents: one is that they think the opponent is so strong that every weapon must be used against him; the other is that they think their own case so weak that it has to be fortified by noise.


I can think of another. The refusal of people like this to listen to reason.

Other Comments by bugaboo

25. Comment #211858 by hobofabby on July 16, 2008 at 10:51 am

A friend of mine sent me this particular article because he found it to have good points about the human yearning for the transcendental. We have had a few arguments over the usefulness of religion and why he still values religion and Christian values even though he is largely secular. I would love to hear a point by point deconstruction of the basic premise of this article and if possible to try and ignore Mr. Scruton's ugly tone while focusing mainly on the argument and his distortions of atheism. I would like to keep a constructive conversation going with my friend. It would be very helpful to me thank you!

Other Comments by hobofabby

26. Comment #211859 by black wolf on July 16, 2008 at 10:52 am

 avatarThanks Steve. Brought to you by the letter oneparagraphofdrivelaftertheother and the number blandinconclusivemeaninglesswordstring.

Other Comments by black wolf

27. Comment #211878 by clodhopper on July 16, 2008 at 11:13 am

 avatarWall to Wall garbage from Mr Scrotum

Other Comments by clodhopper

28. Comment #211888 by clodhopper on July 16, 2008 at 11:24 am

 avatar"......the places from which breezes from that other sphere waft over them..."

Ahh! You've met the wife then?

Other Comments by clodhopper

29. Comment #211890 by comet tail on July 16, 2008 at 11:25 am

 avatarReligious apologists always site consciousness, and the awe that it produces, as a justification for a god. Why is consciousness denied to other life forms, why is it only given to humans? As more research emerges that religion is just another prescribed mental trait- possibly mammalian more than human-- of organizing the self in relationship to the other, in a simplistic, economic pattern, one that keeps it's organism insular and procreating, humans may have to face a lot of the biases that our consciousness have created that support religious beliefs and some scientific ones too. It is a self fulfillment strategy; "we humans are so special, there must be a god" that has kept us as top carnivore of the planet, and that is all. Science is always denounced for not creating awe or satisfying the needs of the inner consciousness in these apologies. These rebukes of atheism give religion more credit than it deserves.

Other Comments by comet tail

30. Comment #211892 by emmet on July 16, 2008 at 11:25 am

 avatarSimply bizarre projection and fabrication from start to finish. Perhaps we should not be surprised at seeing a tissue of lies from the mouthpiece of Big Tobacco. Perhaps Scruton is still sore from the drubbing his side got from Richard's last year:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/tools_and_services/podcasts/article1583399.ece

Other Comments by emmet

31. Comment #211897 by Rising Ape on July 16, 2008 at 11:31 am

 avatar"evangelical atheists"... because the pair that knocked on my door this morning at too-bloody-early AM were actually trying to make me join the atheist jihad!

Other Comments by Rising Ape

32. Comment #211903 by qomak on July 16, 2008 at 11:38 am

 avatar
It is this mystery which brings people back to religion.


This guy is certainly deluded and slightly ignorant of the general consensus of neurologists on consciousness but I would like to ask him if he agrees that the grip of religion on children must be loosened.

If it is the mystery which brings people to religion, then perhaps we can stop telling the children (or the adults) that the price of disobedience is to burn at a pit of fire for eternity. If religion is there to answer our profound questions, then let us just keep it for the time we ask those profound question (i.e., adulthood). As long as these religious apologists agree with these points, I have no problem with their delusions. After all, we all know that if there was no indoctrination, religion would have died within a generation or two.

Other Comments by qomak

33. Comment #211908 by Apathy personified on July 16, 2008 at 11:42 am

 avatar
it is very obvious that something is missing from their lives
Yes, a delusion of the mind called 'Religion' - that's why they are described as atheists. However, that's a good thing.

Other Comments by Apathy personified

34. Comment #211913 by TIKI AL on July 16, 2008 at 11:46 am

While carefully Scrutonizing the article, I started singing, "It's a delusional day in Roger's neighborhood, a delusional day in Roger's neighborhood." (it just came came over me, you know, like when a godbot breaks into tongues)

And no, Roger, I don't want to be your neighbor.

Other Comments by TIKI AL

35. Comment #211916 by huzonfurst on July 16, 2008 at 11:48 am

Wow, what sheer crap. I hope that magazine gets a flood of protest mail - and prints it.

As for shouting "because we know our position is weak," who hasn't ever become so frustrated with the willful stupidity of the typical believer that s/he *needs* to either scream or explode?!

Other Comments by huzonfurst

36. Comment #211927 by Jack Rawlinson on July 16, 2008 at 11:58 am

 avatarSome near-libellous drivel about "violence" in there. ("The violence of the diatribes uttered by these evangelical atheists is indeed remarkable.")

He gets away with it because he can say he's only talking about verbal "violence", as in uncompromising opinions. This is sneaky, underhand and rather craven since it manages to suggest that the target of his criticism is espousing actual violence without actually saying that. It just plants the seed of the idea, and before long people are lazily referring to "violent atheists", just as they so lazily refer to "strident atheists" as a matter of course now.

I've noticed that the smarter religious apologists (and Scruton is certainly smart) use this tactic a lot, and it stinks. I'm not litigious by nature but I must confess that a part of me hopes that one of these sly buggers makes the mistake of just overdoing it enough to actually merit a libel case.

Other Comments by Jack Rawlinson

37. Comment #211937 by GBile on July 16, 2008 at 12:06 pm

 avatarMr. Scruton,

You score an impressive 0.9 Fallwell on the Deludometer. Most of what you say is meaningless, the rest is nonsense.

An example: Nowhere in our world is the door that we might open, so as to stand again in the breath of God.
Well, the bearded man with the halitosis does not exist !

Nr. 2: Yet human beings have an innate need to conceptualise their world in terms of the transcendental, and to live out the distinction between the sacred and the profane.

Blah bloeblie blah blue ..

Oh, it is nice to be strident once in a while.

Other Comments by GBile

38. Comment #211940 by Quine on July 16, 2008 at 12:09 pm

 avatarSo, he can't except a Universe that "just is," but needs a supernatural being who "just is."

Other Comments by Quine

39. Comment #211943 by irate_atheist on July 16, 2008 at 12:11 pm

 avatar21. Comment #211829 by mordacious1 -

Not strident enough.

Fucktard!!!!!


That's more like it.

Other Comments by irate_atheist

40. Comment #211950 by mordacious1 on July 16, 2008 at 12:16 pm

 avatarirate

Thanks for the correction, I'm new at flinging "fucktard" at people, but it's nice to learn from the master.

Other Comments by mordacious1

41. Comment #211951 by thewhitepearl on July 16, 2008 at 12:17 pm

 avatar
There are two reasons why people start shouting at their opponents


Poppycock.

I also shout when I just can't take the stupidity anymore... At the people who want to debate something but turn around cover up their ears and yell "na na na na na naaaaa, i can't hear you, i cant hear you...."

Besides that this guy is just plain wrong. I dont think I've ever seen dawkins, harris, or dennet shout to get a point across...Hitchens yes, plenty of time but hes just an ass so thats expected.

Other Comments by thewhitepearl

42. Comment #211953 by Apathy personified on July 16, 2008 at 12:18 pm

 avatarirate,
I'd like to nominate Roger Scruton for a 'Special Achievement Award' in this months fucktard awards.

Tough competition, but i think he's worked hard for it.

Other Comments by Apathy personified

43. Comment #211955 by al-rawandi on July 16, 2008 at 12:20 pm

 avatarthewhitepearl,






What are you drinking in the avatar photo?


Is that a XXL Long Island Iced Tea?

Other Comments by al-rawandi

44. Comment #211958 by thewhitepearl on July 16, 2008 at 12:24 pm

 avatarAl,

it's vodka, with a splash of cranberry...

Other Comments by thewhitepearl

45. Comment #211960 by epeeist on July 16, 2008 at 12:25 pm

 avatarMilitant atheists? Absolutely - http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/06/20/lake/

Other Comments by epeeist

46. Comment #211962 by Dhamma on July 16, 2008 at 12:29 pm

 avatar
Pearl: Hitchens yes, plenty of time but hes just an ass so thats expected.

Persecute her!




:D Hitchens is hilarious.

Other Comments by Dhamma

47. Comment #211964 by al-rawandi on July 16, 2008 at 12:32 pm

 avatarwhitepearl,





50/50.... that is my mix. Or was it 80/20...

But you do have the XXL cup going. Sheesh.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

48. Comment #211966 by radiohead on July 16, 2008 at 12:33 pm

Very sloppy opinion piece indeed. This piece strikes me as the bastard child of Mcgrath and John Gray.


Evangelical Atheists---How original.


Atheists are violent, they talk with violence. Yes sir that's all they do is talk, talk and write and persuade. When was the last atheist riot? When was the last time an atheist blew himself up killing innocent women and children? When was the last time someone got into trouble for blaspheming against atheism?


Final point. The author asks how has science undermined religion.


Well how about Evolution by means of natural selection blowing the whole creationist argument from Genesis out of the water?

Or how about evidence from geology and cosmology that the earth and universe are just a little bit older than six thousand years.

Or the sciences of the mind making the belief in a immaterial soul redundant.


If this guy was paid for doing this the person who commissioned him should ask for their money back.

Michael Faulkner.

Other Comments by radiohead

49. Comment #211967 by Styrer- on July 16, 2008 at 12:34 pm

Putting Scruton's intellectually dishonest distortions and insults to one side for a mo, if his real point is that our collective need for the transcendental or the numinous is compromised by atheism, what on earth continues to convince him that theism satisfactorily answers it?

Would he really be prepared to assert that there is less of the power of the numinous in - oh, let me think - 'Unweaving the Rainbow' than in any single one of the world's painfully prosaic, boring, so obviously human-created 'holy texts'?

As soon as the transcendental assumes the guise of a sky-fairy, then the concept loses all meaning, I think. Only when it is sought - and so easily found - in the works of nature and of mankind can it truly reach its full expression of awe, astonishment, wonder and sense of purpose.

The poor fellow should read and properly digest at least the aforementioned Dawkins' text, before he spouts such fucking inanities. And get out more.

Best,
Styrer

Other Comments by Styrer-

50. Comment #211968 by clodhopper on July 16, 2008 at 12:34 pm

 avatarI want to be a Fucktardist too! Does it have anything to do with Dr Who?

Other Comments by clodhopper
Reload Comments | Back to Top


Comment Entry: Please Login

Register a new account

Username:

Password: