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Cardinal accuses Anglican Communion of 'spiritual Alzheimer's'

by Guardian

Thanks to Linda Ward Selbie for the link.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/23/anglicanism.religion

Cardinal accuses Anglican Communion of 'spiritual Alzheimer's'

A Vatican official last night described the turmoil in the Anglican Communion as "spiritual Alzheimer's" and "ecclesial Parkinson's".

The damning verdict came from Cardinal Ivan Dias, prefect of the Congregation for the Evangelisation of Peoples, who is the most senior Catholic delegate invited to the Lambeth Conference - the once-a-decade gathering of the world's Anglican bishops.

In his address, Dias was careful not to single out the Anglican church, which has been afflicted by divisions since the consecration of a gay bishop in 2003. Instead he referred to "Christian communities".

However, his unequivocal language laid bare his disapproval of the chaos sweeping through the world's third biggest Christian denomination. He said: "When we live myopically in the fleeting present, oblivious of our past heritage and apostolic traditions, we could well be suffering from spiritual Alzheimer's.

"When we behave in a disorderly manner, going whimsically our own way without any coordination with the head of or the other members of our community, it could be ecclesial Parkinson's."

Dias is highly regarded in Rome and was one of the cardinals considered papabile - worthy of being elected pope - at the 2005 conclave that eventually selected Benedict XVI. His speech is the latest in a series of criticisms from Rome about the liberal drift of the Anglican church.

Earlier this month, the Vatican expressed regret that the Church of England's General Synod voted to proceed with the ordination of women bishops, while on the eve of the conference the second in command at the Holy See, Tarcisio Cardinal Bertone, warned that the crises gripping Anglicanism posed a "further and grave challenge" to the relationship between the two denominations.

Dias told bishops the battle to bring Christ to the world must be placed in the "wider context of spiritual combat" with Satan. "If this context is ignored in favour of a myopic world-vision, Christ's salvation will be conveniently dismissed as irrelevant."

This "spiritual warfare" had continued since the fall of Adam, raging "aided and abetted by well-known secret sects, Satanic groups and New Age movements" that revealed the "many ugly heads of the hideous anti-God monster".

These works of the devil were, he added, "secularism, which seeks to build a godless society; spiritual indifference, which is insensitive to transcendental values; and relativism, which is contrary to the permanent tenets of the Gospel".

"We Christians and bishops can ill afford to remain on the sidelines as passive spectators," he warned.

Posted: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 | Permalink

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1. Comment #216990 by Thurston on July 23, 2008 at 6:58 pm

A little H. L. Mencken seems appropriate here:

Theology is the effort to explain the unknowable in terms of the not worth knowing.

That seems to sum up nicely the Cardinal's nonsensical pronouncements. "Since the fall of Adam" indeed! Bloody fool!

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2. Comment #216991 by CocoCantare on July 23, 2008 at 7:02 pm

Ahhh, nothing like a bunch of delusional old men in robes arguing amongst themselves.
Even though I am now an atheist, excluding women from priesthood/leadership enrages me as it did when I was Baptist and later Catholic.

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3. Comment #216994 by SimplyIrresponsible on July 23, 2008 at 7:04 pm

Whenever I read an article like this I put AC/DC (Bonn Scott) in the CD player and crank it up to full volume then have a pint and crawl into bed and hope tomorrow will be better. I do hope a better tomorrow comes ... and soon . My hearing and liver can't take much more of this.

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4. Comment #216997 by melsdr on July 23, 2008 at 7:08 pm

'Dias told bishops the battle to bring Christ to the world must be placed in the "wider context of spiritual combat" with Satan. "If this context is ignored in favour of a myopic world-vision, Christ's salvation will be conveniently dismissed as irrelevant." '

How, in the 21st century, are such idiotic, superstitious comments deemed news worthy. It's depressing.

Why doesn't the Anglican church just call bullshit on the whole religious thing, keep the churches as a social centre to go to for a sing-song on a sunday, followed by tea and cream-cakes. Then they can just ignore these wankers in Rome?

I don't know who said it but I have heard the phrase 'the CofE, taking the god out of religion' (or somrthing similar). Sounds good to me!

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5. Comment #216998 by Grantaire of JC on July 23, 2008 at 7:12 pm

Typical response from Rome. They want to be the only game in town and are upset because the others won't play on their terms. I guess it's time to make t-shirts that say "Atheist because the devil made me do it" I could sell them outside the Vatican.

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6. Comment #216999 by Mike O'Risal on July 23, 2008 at 7:14 pm

This "spiritual warfare" had continued since the fall of Adam, raging "aided and abetted by well-known secret sects...

Anyone who can utter the phrase "well-known secret sects" with a straight face in any context should be pied on the spot.

Who is more laughable... someone who can talk about "well-known secret sects" or the people willing to take such a goofus seriously?

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7. Comment #217001 by kkelly on July 23, 2008 at 7:19 pm

I love how he thinks equal rights for women and gays is a "fleeting" cultural caprice. I love how he's going to die knowing in the back of his mind, that it probably isn't.

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8. Comment #217002 by thewhitepearl on July 23, 2008 at 7:23 pm

Dias told bishops the battle to bring Christ to the world must be placed in the "wider context of spiritual combat" with Satan

I wonder what he means by that.

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9. Comment #217004 by SimplyIrresponsible on July 23, 2008 at 7:26 pm

Radesq: The rumored last recorded words of Bonn ... with him him being a big fan of Mork and Mindy ... of course.

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10. Comment #217005 by kkelly on July 23, 2008 at 7:28 pm

11, He means more religious intrusion on secular, spiritually empty matters.

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11. Comment #217009 by thewhitepearl on July 23, 2008 at 7:39 pm

...I wonder if an all knowing, all powerful God and a mischievous Satan aren't just excuses not to accept personal responsibility for one's own failings.

Well, duuuuuuuuh! :)

That's exactly what it is.

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12. Comment #217010 by flistr8 on July 23, 2008 at 7:39 pm

Found on the Alzheimer's Myths website:

"Reality: Alzheimer's disease will kill you. It destroys brain cells and causes memory changes, erratic behaviors and loss of body functions. It slowly and painfully takes away your identity, ability to connect with others, think, eat, talk, walk and find your way home."

It's not often I find myself in agreement with men of the cloth but this time, I think the damning Cardinal Ivan Dias has it nailed.

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13. Comment #217012 by thewhitepearl on July 23, 2008 at 7:52 pm

I must have missed it Rad. But ha it has a definte ring to it!

I like very much, yes..Very nice.

So which Holy Trollers(c) do you think we'll get tonight?

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14. Comment #217013 by thewhitepearl on July 23, 2008 at 7:57 pm

Sometimes I wonder if we secretly make atheist out of people who are weak in their faith or on the fence.

You know like they come here to see what it's all about and start reading the posts, and then the wheels start spinning, they get a little curious, start researching more, come here more..and then VOILA! One day it hits them like a ton of bricks.

A dose of Dawkins.net a day, keeps the fairy tales at bay.

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15. Comment #217015 by CocoCantare on July 23, 2008 at 8:03 pm

Ya know, I think it may happen more often than we think, as I am proof of just exactly how you put it, twp.

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16. Comment #217018 by thewhitepearl on July 23, 2008 at 8:09 pm

Really Coco? Wow!

That's a good thing to hear. Did you come onto the site weak, curious, or set out to come and validate the common misconceptions about atheists and science? In a way to sort of prove that you were right about your faith?

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17. Comment #217021 by mordacious1 on July 23, 2008 at 8:13 pm

On the other hand, I came on this site as a devout atheist, but the mind-bending logic of Joe M. is slowing turning me into a muslim.

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18. Comment #217029 by thewhitepearl on July 23, 2008 at 8:20 pm

Rad, Coco, Brian I have five brothers.

On the other hand, I came on this site as a devout atheist, but the mind-bending logic of Joe M. is slowing turning me into a muslim.

If this happens stick to throwing me in front of the bus and not the kitchen.

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19. Comment #217034 by CocoCantare on July 23, 2008 at 8:24 pm

(Lol, mordacious1, I'm so sorry)

Well,twp, I am curious by nature. I ask a lot of questions to fully understand things, almost ad nauseum. Even my mom says she thinks my first word was "why?". I was very emotionally attached to my faith, but I slowly began questioning things more and more. I guess you could say my faith started unraveling right before my eyes. RD.net answered a lot of my questions. Things in life just make more sense now.

I admit I was afraid of atheists for a long time. I assumed all atheists to be immoral and/or amoral . But then I really witnessed so much hypocrisy in christians, and I realized God doesn't make us choose to do the right thing or treat people with respect and kindness. I witnessed a lot of good, kind, atheists on this site and it blew me away. Am I rambling on? Am I making any sense? Sorry. I could seriously write a novel about my "journey".

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20. Comment #217039 by mordacious1 on July 23, 2008 at 8:27 pm

twp

Sorry, I'm going to have to push you under a camel. It's the way we do things, although YOU are heading for a good stoning. Repent before the wrath of Allah befalls you.

[edit] you know, I could into this fake muslim thing, it's kinda fun, maybe I'll log on under a new moniker.

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21. Comment #217040 by CocoCantare on July 23, 2008 at 8:30 pm

Hey, don't take this too far, mordacious. Besides, twp's picture has a message for crazees like you. ;o)

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22. Comment #217042 by thewhitepearl on July 23, 2008 at 8:36 pm

Coco,

Yeah that makes perfect sense. Brian is right if you feel like writing your journey to stick it in the convert's corner. I've been thinking about it, but I actually think I'm going to turn it into a book.

Mordy,

Don't you dare! Or maybe if we get a christian troll tonight. You two could go at it. Just make it something the lot of us could recognize it's you.

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23. Comment #217043 by Goldy on July 23, 2008 at 8:38 pm

I too am slowly seeing the light. Booby O'Brien and David Robertson have shown me Christ is the way by their patience, their wit, their crushing arguments and their saintly personae. I can now see only through Christ can I be as nice and gentle and, gosh darn, as friendly as them!

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24. Comment #217044 by majordomo on July 23, 2008 at 8:42 pm

I hate being in a differnt time zone!!

I always miss out on the discussions!

!!!!!!!!

Its that time in the UK - ok!

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25. Comment #217045 by Goldy on July 23, 2008 at 8:44 pm

I hate being in a differnt time zone!!

I always miss out on the discussions!

Tell me about it! Trouble with being in NZ, I'm in a different day zone too! Where are you?

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26. Comment #217046 by mordacious1 on July 23, 2008 at 8:48 pm

Goldy

The true way is Islam, the word of the Prophet, christianity is not following our God Allah. (btw, we get the virgins, heh heh heh)

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27. Comment #217051 by Goldy on July 23, 2008 at 9:07 pm

Mordacious, the only way to salvation is through Christ! We don't need virgins - we're too arrogant and self-centred to attract any women. Besides, we don't like them - Paul told us so.

Brian, I love talking to you. Ummm....whatcha doing now? Hey, you're in Melbourne, right? Can you find out how much it costs to send a dashboard to NZ? Got an Alfa one in Melb with friends...after 2 years, I think they'd like me to pick it up...

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28. Comment #217053 by Goldy on July 23, 2008 at 9:08 pm

Rad
Christianity vs Islam.
Mord, also, we get booze and we get to do cannibalism...albeit with a biscuit. Hah! That beats virgins anytime!

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29. Comment #217054 by CocoCantare on July 23, 2008 at 9:10 pm

So, Mordacious, what happens to the heavenly virgins after they've been, ahem, devirginized?

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30. Comment #217058 by CocoCantare on July 23, 2008 at 9:18 pm

Yeah, but that lovely part of the female isn't the reason why virgins are so appetizing, right? Come to think of it, why is it there in the first place? Here I am a female and I'm wondering about muslim heavenly virgins and the mysteries of my own genitalia. . . must be the whiskey sour I'm sipping on.

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31. Comment #217060 by thewhitepearl on July 23, 2008 at 9:24 pm

Sorry, I got distracted by a repeat of the South Park "Hare Club for Men" Easter Special. What were we talking about

I love that one! Hippitus, hopitus...They had the one where kenny inhabits cartman's body and stan unwilling becomes a psychic on earlier over in these here parts..

On christianity vs. islam, I vote christianity, otherwise I would have been stoned to death a long time ago. At least in christianity i can pick and choose what i want to believe in from the bible and still be socially accepted. Besides, this is a christian country and all that jazz.

I wish richard morgan and joe were here to battle it out. Baby christian vs. baby muslim...Both over eager to spread their gospels. Meh but joe's kind of a headache.

Coco, were you lurking during the time of Richie Morgan? I cant recall you having the pleasure of being around the thread when he's around.

[edit] Coco,

The hymen is a vestigal membrane. I don't think there are any definite known causes for it. We aren't the only mammals that have them however.

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32. Comment #217061 by CocoCantare on July 23, 2008 at 9:27 pm

twp, yes, I've notice this dick, er, richard fellow. Am I right in that he was a common atheist on this site and now is born again or something to that effect?

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33. Comment #217066 by thewhitepearl on July 23, 2008 at 9:42 pm

Coco,

Yeah, I think he's just lonely. But I'm really not going to concern myself with him to much.

Brian said funky monkey.

*giggles*

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34. Comment #217067 by CocoCantare on July 23, 2008 at 9:47 pm

Brian,

Yeah (giggle) that was cute. But, I'm still wondering why, evolutionarily speaking that is, us women have/had a hymen in the first place.

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35. Comment #217070 by 8teist on July 23, 2008 at 9:49 pm

Yo Goldy, at least we are a day ahead.

Pity we can`t make a dollar from it selling predictions to the gullible.

Joe`s been working on me to ,was thinking about buying a prayer mat but decided that, all that bending over would stuff my back ,so I think I`ll remain faithless.

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36. Comment #217074 by 8teist on July 23, 2008 at 9:56 pm

Can we get the catoholics and the anglickans to sort this out the old fashioned way ,pistols at dawn or even better by duking it out behind a pub?

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37. Comment #217077 by CocoCantare on July 23, 2008 at 9:58 pm

Honest signal? Yuck! But since species can still reproduce after virginity has long gone, why would a clownfish be worried about his mates virginity? With Nemo, reproducing is reproducing. . . at least he's gettin' some action!

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38. Comment #217078 by Goldy on July 23, 2008 at 9:58 pm

So, Mordacious, what happens to the heavenly virgins after they've been, ahem, devirginized?

They wake up virgins again. Oddly, so do men... ;-)
8teist, I had considered Islam, but what with my back the way it was and me not really wanting that forehead mark... Nope, Christ all the way! As for the virgins, we can have all the ones we want too - every little boy a man could desire. And as I said before, if you flip them over...
:-) OK folks, it's goodnight from me! Ciao, tutti!

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39. Comment #217079 by thewhitepearl on July 23, 2008 at 9:59 pm

But, I'm still wondering why, evolutionarily speaking that is, us women have/had a hymen in the first place.

It's vestigal. There really isn't a point anymore. The same reason we have tailbones, get goose bumps, men have nipples, etc etc.. Just leftover traits that don't serve a real purpose. At one point it did, but it's not something that is threatning to our survival so we don't need to weed it out or get rid of it. But like I said, women aren't the only mammals that have it. It's not unique to us.

I know some people would like to say that god or whatever diety put it out there to serve a religious purpose but that wouldn't explain why other female animals have it as well.

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40. Comment #217080 by Goldy on July 23, 2008 at 10:00 pm

why would a clownfish be worried about his mates virginity?

Male ego thing. Something to do with notches on the bedpost.
OK, really, I'm out of here!
TTFN!

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41. Comment #217082 by CocoCantare on July 23, 2008 at 10:01 pm

Ditto! Nite nite!

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42. Comment #217084 by 8teist on July 23, 2008 at 10:04 pm

Rowan Williams vs the pope ,

Handbags at 10 paces?

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43. Comment #217085 by thewhitepearl on July 23, 2008 at 10:05 pm

But since species can still reproduce after virginity has long gone, why would a clownfish be worried about his mates virginity?

Why would a human?

I do believe however, I could be wrong, but clownfish tend to have life partners.

Brian,

Oh yeah they do..I read up on all kinds of animal sex and such on pharyngula. There is a certain type of female fish that also looks for who has the bigger package, so to speak.

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44. Comment #217087 by 8teist on July 23, 2008 at 10:08 pm

"looks for who has the bigger package, so to speak"

What? like from JC Penney or Sears ,you mean?

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45. Comment #217088 by thewhitepearl on July 23, 2008 at 10:09 pm

Apparently he saw a monkey doing the you know what with another monkey,

You mean a monkey doing the funky monkey with another monkey? Jungle love?

That's such a weird story. Hmm it's funny the extent that some people will go to in the name of sexual purity.

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46. Comment #217090 by thewhitepearl on July 23, 2008 at 10:14 pm

Rad,

I believe it's because we all start out with the ability to become women. I mean chromosonically speaking you are half a woman. This prob traces back since before we were anything resembling humans. I'll have to re research that one.

[edit]Actually now that I think about it, men also have a built in uterus. It's shrunken up and shriveled and barely noticeable but alas! You do have them

Nighty night rad

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47. Comment #217094 by latsot on July 23, 2008 at 10:21 pm

Rowan Williams vs the pope

I'm imagining it like Gandalf fighting Saruman in Lord of the Rings.

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48. Comment #217095 by thewhitepearl on July 23, 2008 at 10:28 pm

Brian,

Right. I wanted to take the process a little further back.

I was just reading about penis evolution.

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49. Comment #217097 by Laurie Fraser on July 23, 2008 at 10:43 pm

Hymens?....Penis evolution?....Piscean fidelity?...

Fuck, you come on this site and the lunatics have taken over the asylum, that's for sure :)

Brian - how were the tropics?
Love the one about testosterone not being able to pass the blood/brain barrier. Does this confirm the idea that you can have an erection OR think, but not both at the same time?

P.S. Nice new av, wp.

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50. Comment #217099 by Laurie Fraser on July 23, 2008 at 10:46 pm

Shame, Brian - we had freezing cold, and this geriatric lunatic in a dress bothering the good citizens of Sydney.

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