Tuesday, July 29, 2008 | Reason : Backlash | print version

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Atheism FLEAmix

by R. Albert Mohler Jr.

http://www.amazon.com/Atheism-Remix-Christian-Confronts-Atheists/dp/1433504979/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217371837&sr=1-1
FLEAmix

Atheism Remix: A Christian Confronts the New Atheists

A leading Christian intellectual explores the newest strain of atheism, its foremost thinkers, the cultural conditions that have bred it, and how Christians should respond.

Something has changed in American culture. What for years was a little-regarded belief system—atheism—has now gained a large, and increasing, national hearing through the writings of "new atheists" such as Dawkins, Dennett, Harris, and Hitchens.

Wanting to both inform and equip serious-minded Christians regarding this cultural shift, R. Albert Mohler Jr. explores the environment that has bred the "new atheism" while also introducing readers to the movement's four leading thinkers and the contours of their arguments. Mohler—deemed "the reigning intellectual of the evangelical movement in the US" by Time magazine—then uses this foundation to pinpoint eight major distinctives that make the new atheism new, and to discuss the future of Christianity in relationship to it.

At school and in the community, Christians are sure to encounter people who have been shaped by this strain of atheism. Here is keen insight that any believer can use to understand and challenge the new atheists.

PAST FLEAS:

http://thedelusiondelusion.com/

A strange new flea book?

The Delusion Delusion

http://www.xulonpress.com/book_detail.php?id=5390
Dawkins Dilemas

Dawkins' Dilemmas — thought-provoking and intriguing Will Richard Dawkins' atheism grip millions — fade — or stir lingering doubts? Baffled or intrigued by his passionate arguments? With this book, you will be able to: Find out how biblical Christianity uncovers Dawkins' dilemmas. Discover why atheism does not rest on rational foundations. Use a fascinating approach that helps you to weigh up Dawkins' beliefs — As you explore Dawkins' dilemmas — � The dilemma of a flawed world � The dilemma of humanity � The dilemma of atheism and probability � An intriguing chapter on: SETI — the search for meaning � The dilemma of the ultimate paradox And take a fresh look at the gospel of Christ.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-There-Almost-Certainly-God/dp/0745953301
and
http://shop.ekklesia.co.uk/christian-bookshop/why_there_almost_certainly_is_a_god_1212372.html

Why There Almost Certainly Is a God: Doubting Dawkins by Keith Ward

Synopsis
Richard Dawkins recently claimed that 'no theologian has ever produced a satisfactory response to his arguments'. Well-known broadcaster and author Keith Ward is one of Britain's foremost philosopher-theologians. This is his response. Ward welcomes all comers into philosophy's world of clear definitions, sharp arguments, and diverse conclusions. But when Dawkins enters this world, his passion tends to get the better of him, and he descends into stereotyping, pastiche, and mockery. In this stimulating and thought-provoking philosophical challenge, Ward demonstrates not only how Dawkins' arguments are flawed, but that a perfectly rational case can be made that there, almost certainly, is a God.

The Devil's Delusion: Atheism and Its Scientific Pretensions
http://www.amazon.com/Devils-Delusion-Atheism-Scientific-Pretensions/dp/0307396266/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b

http://www.amazon.com/GOD-QUESTION-Response-God-Delusion/dp/B0013VHC0G/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=digital-text&qid=1205351261&sr=1-5
[No Image Available]

'The God Question: A Response to The God Delusion' by Rev. John Edgell

The Delusion of Disbelief: Why the New Atheism is a Threat to Your Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness

http://www.amazon.com/Delusion-Disbelief-Atheism-Liberty-Happiness/dp/1414317085/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203958557&sr=8-1
delusion disbelief

http://www.lulu.com/content/605271
"The Confutation of Dawkins' The God Delusion" by Malcolm McLean
flea

Richard Dawkins' book is systematically refuted. Dawkins' arguments are analysed, and invariably found wanting. However the confutation is charitable in tone, and sometimes allows that Dawkins may have a constructive point. A must read for anyone who has read "The God Delusion".

http://www.mobipocket.com/en/eBooks/BookDetails.asp?BookID=35163&Origine=1718
rd delusion

http://www.cokesbury.com/forms/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=654057
God and the new atheism

Read an interview with the latest flea author John Haught at Salon.com here (thanks to Richard Prins)

PZ Myers has done a nice breakdown of the above interview here

Suggit

"Challenging Richard Dawkins: Why Richard Dawkins is Wrong About God"
Kathleen Jones Flea

God Is No Delusion: A Refutation of Richard Dawkins

UPDATE: This looks like it is actually the SAME book as you see in Richard's flea-orbit below titled "A Catholic Replies to Professor Dawkins (UK)" (they have the same blurb). This must be a case of them trying to hype it up for the US market.

Sam's Fleas

And some general fleas:

The New Atheist Crusaders and Their Unholy Grail: The Misguided Quest to Destroy Your Faith
by Becky Garrison

The Truth Behind the New Atheism: Responding to the Emerging Challenges to God and Christianity

"The New Atheists: The Twilight of Reason & The War on Religion"
by Tina Beattie

Posted: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 | Permalink

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1. Comment #221453 by Apathy personified on July 29, 2008 at 4:23 pm

*Smirks*
These just keep on coming.

Christians are sure to encounter people who have been shaped by this strain of atheism.

What, people who don't compartmentalise their analytic and critical thinking abilities and extend a more rational approach to most, if not all, areas of life?

Here is keen insight that any believer can use to understand and challenge the new atheists.

A challenge would be wonderful - but my psychic powers predict that this will be the usual 'Gives me a fuzzy feeling inside' and 'atheists are nasty'

Other Comments by Apathy personified

2. Comment #221460 by thewhitepearl on July 29, 2008 at 4:38 pm

Here is keen insight that any believer can use to understand and challenge the new atheists

ppppffffffffssssssshhhhhhhhh I wish.

Goldy,

This should bring them back from the dead. Agree?

Other Comments by thewhitepearl

3. Comment #221465 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 4:43 pm

This should bring them back from the dead. Agree?

Throw in an evolution argument, a soupcon of morality and they should come a-crawling in :-D

Other Comments by Goldy

4. Comment #221469 by Faith Minus on July 29, 2008 at 4:45 pm

"A leading Christian intellectual"

Well that is an oxymoron if I've ever heard one.

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5. Comment #221472 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 4:47 pm

Predicting David Robertson in the next 24 hours.

Hope so! Or Richard Morgan....or whoever he is nowadays....

Other Comments by Goldy

6. Comment #221473 by Double Bass Atheist on July 29, 2008 at 4:48 pm

What for years was a little-regarded belief system - atheism - has now gained a large, and increasing, national hearing through the writings of "new atheists" such as Dawkins, Dennett, Harris, and Hitchens.

How many times must we say it? Atheism is not a 'belief system', it is the complete absence of belief.

Other Comments by Double Bass Atheist

7. Comment #221474 by thewhitepearl on July 29, 2008 at 4:49 pm

Predicting David Robertson in the next 24 hours. This prediction is not based on fuzzy feelings but on induction.

Yes, Quetz was quite right earlier. There is a disturbance in the force.

Goldy, Brian, Apathy

It's been way to quite around here lately. It's the eerie calm before the storm.

Other Comments by thewhitepearl

8. Comment #221478 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 4:52 pm

How many times must we say it? Atheism is not a 'belief system', it is the complete absence of belief.

Probably about the same number of times one has to say Islam is not a race issue (though it can be sometimes ;-))

It's the eerie calm before the storm.

More like the deadzone that is Wednesday....

Other Comments by Goldy

9. Comment #221485 by Apathy personified on July 29, 2008 at 4:57 pm

How many times must we say it? Atheism is not a 'belief system'

What's the highest number you can think of?

It's been way to quite around here lately. It's the eerie calm before the storm.

Indeed...(you got the jink first, damn again!) They will come, they will crash against the gates - annoy the hell out of everyone - then runaway like sissies, claiming victory.
Let's try a new tactic, everyone either ignores them (i mean everyone) or we all pretend to agree with them until they get bored and leave.

Other Comments by Apathy personified

10. Comment #221492 by thewhitepearl on July 29, 2008 at 5:02 pm

More like the deadzone that is Wednesday....

It's Tuesday over here mate. You're living in the future! whoa-whoa-whoa-wow-wee-whoa-whoa.

everyone either ignores them (i mean everyone) or we all pretend to agree with them until they get bored and leave.

Guess I have to put the bat away huh? I vote we pretend to agree til they get bored. It sounds way more entertaining. All in favor?

Other Comments by thewhitepearl

11. Comment #221496 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 5:06 pm

A bite...from the future!
http://richarddawkins.net/articleComments,2913,Church-exorcism-protected-by-First-Amendment,Telegraph,page1#221480

Other Comments by Goldy

12. Comment #221499 by Apathy personified on July 29, 2008 at 5:08 pm

Guess I have to put the bat away huh?

Afraid so, not now though...until then - swing away!

Other Comments by Apathy personified

13. Comment #221509 by trevok on July 29, 2008 at 5:15 pm

"Wanting to both inform and equip serious-minded Christians regarding this cultural shift"

If this is his target audience, this book should sell about 4 copies.

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14. Comment #221510 by thewhitepearl on July 29, 2008 at 5:18 pm

Goldy,

I'm back from the future. Thanks for the link. (It's a rift in space and time.)

Afraid so, not now though...until then - swing away!

I broke it.

Other Comments by thewhitepearl

15. Comment #221518 by idragosani on July 29, 2008 at 5:24 pm

Intellectual? Evangelical? Isn't that a contradiction?

Other Comments by idragosani

16. Comment #221522 by DavidJGrossman on July 29, 2008 at 5:32 pm

"leading Christian intellectual"

I lol'd.

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17. Comment #221528 by fizhburn on July 29, 2008 at 5:49 pm

By the looks of things, publishers are tossing advances about like candy at a parade. Well as long as intellectual honesty isn't on the agenda, I'll be happy to pen a screed ~~for the money~~ ~~just to get it featured here~~ for a christian audience.

Okay, for the money.

Other Comments by fizhburn

18. Comment #221535 by fizhburn on July 29, 2008 at 6:06 pm

Yes, but I'd be a little less blatantly violent in my LOGICAL PROOF™ that atheists are big mean dumb-heads.

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19. Comment #221552 by J Mac on July 29, 2008 at 6:34 pm

strain of atheism

A STRAIN of atheism huh? Well I suppose I'm subject to this disease, that is of course until I perfect my brainectomy treatment.

Other Comments by J Mac

20. Comment #221554 by Thor on July 29, 2008 at 6:39 pm

Mohler is an interesting character. Despite the fact that I do not agree with him on anything, TIME's characterization is probably right.

Now, given the underlying premises of Evangelical thinking, being deemed "the reigning intellectual of the evangelical movement in the US" by Time magazine is admittedly not such a big deal as one some might think.

However, I sometimes listen to his radio show. It is fascinating insofar as it helps me to understand how these people think.

This book grew out of a lecture he gave on this very topic at some evangelical bible college. I listened to it online (you can find it on his website under "Sermons and Speeches")

I found it interesting because it has nothing to do with the usual old argument about god's existence or who killed more people etc., but instead he only talks about culture.
These evengelicals are quite afraid of the secular culture they see around them - they see themselves as a "countercultural" movement that has to stay its course and try to remain "pure" in the face of all the temptation around them.

It makes me cautiously optimistic to hear them complain about the problems they have with their younger generation. Still, we must NEVER underestimate them either, and to that end it is always helpful to follow Sun-Tzu's advice.
"Know thy enemy"

(Sorry for the martial undertones, but I believe we all understand that I mean the context of the "culture war", and in this context I want to fight and defeat this people, i.e. dimenish their influence on society, maybe one day even destroy the very respectability of their belief)

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21. Comment #221572 by Wosret on July 29, 2008 at 8:15 pm

7. Comment #221473 by Double Bass Atheist

There is an emoticon for everything. That expresses my feelings exactly. How many strawmen can one prop up in a single paragraph? Are all these guys having a secret competition?

20. Comment #221535 by fizhburn

Hilarious.

Other Comments by Wosret

22. Comment #221579 by Inferno on July 29, 2008 at 8:26 pm

Mohler�"deemed "the reigning intellectual of the evangelical movement in the US" by Time magazine

Did Time magazine mean that as a compliment?

Other Comments by Inferno

23. Comment #221580 by 8teist on July 29, 2008 at 8:34 pm

Anybody want to finance my new book? the Delusion delusion delusion delusion delusion delusion delusion DELUSIon .......oh for fucks I can`t be bothered ....I give up, god exists, now where`s my 72 virgins??????

Bring em out and strap em on .........No altar boys mind you,thanks.......

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24. Comment #221581 by black wolf on July 29, 2008 at 8:34 pm

I've read a few of Mohler's blog entries. He openly agrees with Richard Dawkins on the opinion that doctrines from the Fall to the crucifixion make very little sense in an evolutionary context. Hardly surprising, he denies that evolution by natural selection happens. He has a clever* way of commenting on a topic by starting out with simple, reasonable statements, and then switching his aim in the middle of his post. A good example of this rhetoric is his comment on pre-implant diagnostics. He starts from selecting blastocysts for an absence of probably carcinogenic genes, jumps to classifications of 'unfit life', and from there right to the systematic killing of embryos. He's also transparently anti-secular in his views on school education, using the same hopscotch tactic to imply that a secular education leads directly to uncivilized youth.

*clever at least in easily leading an uncritical or uninformed reader around by the nose

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25. Comment #221582 by GordonYKWong on July 29, 2008 at 8:35 pm

I am not sure how this book classify as a Flea book, by RD.net's definition of what a flea book is.

Other Comments by GordonYKWong

26. Comment #221585 by Wosret on July 29, 2008 at 8:44 pm

25. Comment #221580 by 8teist

I was thinking of writing "God is great: how religion cures everything" "You're the one with the delusion, asshole!" "It takes faith to believe in the end of faith, so there you big silly" or "reinforcing the spell"

27. Comment #221582 by GordonYKWong

He's directly using their named to promote his book.

Other Comments by Wosret

27. Comment #221586 by mordacious1 on July 29, 2008 at 8:50 pm

I just wish books on atheism were this cheap, $10.87 for a hardcover. By next month it will be "out back, on the discount rack" for $4.

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28. Comment #221587 by GordonYKWong on July 29, 2008 at 8:53 pm

I think he is entitled to use the names of those he is responding to. At least he hasn't blatantly ripped off the cover design or title like some other fleas.

If all the other examples are parasitic flea books, I think Mohler is more like a cockroach book. Not really parasitic but brainless and feeding off the scraps of others nevertheless.

EDIT: and impossible to eradicate, so most people just ignore them.

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29. Comment #221589 by mordacious1 on July 29, 2008 at 9:07 pm

Gordon

It is a stretch to be a flea, but on the cover it does say, "A christian confronts the new atheists". He defines new atheists as Dawkins, Hitchens, Dennett, and Harris. So he is using these authors in a parasitic fashion. Maybe not as blatant as some of the others.

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30. Comment #221591 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 9:10 pm

However you look at it, it still seems to be two sets of people writing books past each other. Flea books (and cockroach books) are targetted at the religious - and they already cannot accept the atheist books.
On the whole, mind, the atheists appear to have rattled some fences - unlike the fleas which are seen as apologetics. For those on the fence or of a secular background, the atheist books make the most sense.

Other Comments by Goldy

31. Comment #221592 by GordonYKWong on July 29, 2008 at 9:11 pm

Mord:

I would settle on calling this new book a mini-flea book :-)

Does anyone intend to read it?

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32. Comment #221597 by mordacious1 on July 29, 2008 at 9:28 pm

Gordon

Only if I find it for a quarter at a thrift shop.

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33. Comment #221598 by Broicher on July 29, 2008 at 9:29 pm

I take it as a sign that with the latest books by people like Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Dennet and all those great thinkers their uncertainty has grown, this is for me just a sign that they are trying to reassure themself by the means of literature ... just like they have to meet on sundays in chruch in order to reassure themself of their beliefs.

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34. Comment #221613 by mordacious1 on July 29, 2008 at 9:42 pm

What pisses me off, is that I only order science and atheist books, along with an occassional history book, from Amazon. Yet they keep sending me emails that state, "Due to your order history, we think you might be interested in the following book". The book is ALWAYS some christian drivel. I don't see the connection, I don't want to read that crap you morons. (rant ended)

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35. Comment #221639 by Dr Doctor on July 30, 2008 at 12:10 am

Its the Itchy and Scratchy show!

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36. Comment #221642 by notsobad on July 30, 2008 at 12:16 am

leading Christian intellectual

belief system-atheism

ha ha

ha ha ha

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37. Comment #221654 by petermun on July 30, 2008 at 1:01 am

Call me lazy, but I'll just wait for Paula K to do one of her excellent demolition jobs.

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38. Comment #221665 by epeeist on July 30, 2008 at 1:29 am

One of the things I usually moan about when theists come to the site is that we have a tendency to be defensive (on the back foot in cricket parlance). We defend evolution or the fact that atheism does not entail nihilism.

The thing with the flea books is that they are in a similar position. The four horseman have put a lot of arguments together and the apologists are being forced to defend, a position they are not used to.

We must keep pressure on them, present as many new arguments as we possibly can and show where their arguments are false. Keep them on the back foot.

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39. Comment #221666 by tangerine_tree on July 30, 2008 at 1:35 am

I notice he was born and raised in Lakeland, Florida.

Also noticed that the "miracle worker" (Todd Bentley??) was performing in Lakeland Florida.

Also, I have some american family who are YEC's who just moved to Lakeland florida.

What the f*** goes on in Lakeland, Florida ??

Other Comments by tangerine_tree

40. Comment #221688 by DamnDirtyApe on July 30, 2008 at 2:21 am

remix eh?

check-check-check-check-check checkitout
what-what-what-what whatsitallabout
work-work-work-work workitout
let's refute this m*fin' flea right out.

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41. Comment #221692 by strengthofmind on July 30, 2008 at 2:24 am

I know it might be an oxymoron, but are there any decent apologetic/anti-atheism books that aren't either question dodging or full of fallacies? It would be nice to read something that genuinely challenges my views, but every time I have a mooch round the bookshops or amazon I can only find the aforementioned drivel.

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42. Comment #221699 by epeeist on July 30, 2008 at 2:36 am

Comment #221692 by strengthofmind

I know it might be an oxymoron, but are there any decent apologetic/anti-atheism

The Existence of God by Richard Swinburne and Warranted Christian Belief by Alvin Plantinga are supposedly fairly meaty.

You might also try The Miracle of Theism by J.L. Mackie which gives arguments both ways.

Other Comments by epeeist

43. Comment #221711 by irate_atheist on July 30, 2008 at 3:01 am

46. Comment #221699 by epeeist -

But let's be clear about this. These books try to justify the existence of a god without any viable evidence whatsoever.

These are people who claim to - in effect - know more about the cause (please forgive the use of this word in this context) of the universe than the worlds most eminent scientists in the fields of cosmology and particle physics.

To use an analogy, they claim to be better at sex than the worlds greatest lovers, but don't know what a woman even looks like.

As someone wrote the other day, they don't have evidence so they use words instead.

I'm sure you agree with me, but I just wanted to make clear to anyone else reading this thread that none of these individuals have anything remotely resembling a reasonable case for believing in gods, given our current knowledge of cosmology, physics, chemistry, biology, psychology, anthropology etc etc etc.

Other Comments by irate_atheist

44. Comment #221776 by ashley on July 30, 2008 at 5:32 am

Presumably it's based on these lectures. Same guy and the chapter headings match the lecture titles:

http://www.dts.edu/media/play/?MediaItemID=7da9a043-fb24-412e-b0e4-efded1f6a61a

http://www.dts.edu/media/play/?MediaItemID=2c91a646-af23-4a26-99a0-8950c9501e5c

http://www.dts.edu/media/play/?MediaItemID=b13a97f9-e51a-42f9-91ec-9ac8b7cdacae

http://www.dts.edu/media/play/?MediaItemID=8dea8824-69d8-4822-9795-a4dbb6b93c94

Other Comments by ashley

45. Comment #221780 by epeeist on July 30, 2008 at 5:39 am

Comment #221711 by irate_atheist

But let's be clear about this. These books try to justify the existence of a god without any viable evidence whatsoever.

No disagreement from me at all.

What they attempt to do is provide a logical argument for the existence of god.

I am taking a few weeks off shortly (significant birthday) and will be wending my way slowly up to Skye. I intend taking a number of the books I have bought on the recommendation of MPhil and others on this site. Mackie's "The Miracle of Theism" will be one of them.

Other Comments by epeeist

46. Comment #221782 by Ygern on July 30, 2008 at 5:49 am

Just looking at the description at Amazon, it looks like this is an anti Sam Harris book:

If you found Sam Harris's Letter to a Christian Nation compelling, the book you are holding is exactly what you need. Dr. Zacharias exposes the utter bankruptcy of this worldview

So its a Sam's Flea Book!

[Edit] - whhops, I was looking at the wrong book.

Here's a link to Mohler's blog
http://www.albertmohler.com/

He is in fact a flea, and fairly anti the 'Four Horsemen'. Run a search on the word 'atheist' on his blog to see what he really thinks about atheists.

Other Comments by Ygern

47. Comment #221787 by Ishruul on July 30, 2008 at 6:02 am

The worst thing I just saw in this post was not the fact that many authors come leeching in some money on the suppose atheist rising movement or trying to convince themselves they are right because they'll sell a lot of books.

The worst of the worst they come up with is proposing that atheism is a religion of it's own. Bringing atheism to the same level religions are is the worst thing religious-media-subjectivity can do to non-religious people.

They categorize us as a religious-self-proclaimed-non-religious organization with atheistic leading figure.

Other Comments by Ishruul

48. Comment #221793 by movingshadow on July 30, 2008 at 6:21 am

I really wish people would stop saying remix in contexts other than music. It sounds like someone's dorky old uncle trying to use hip lingo and failing pathetically. Actually, that's pretty much exactly what it is.

Other Comments by movingshadow

49. Comment #221815 by Edamus on July 30, 2008 at 7:05 am

Great googly moogly...

How many refutations can there POSSIBLY be for just a set of, oh, 4 to 5 books...?

Holy crap, challenge "new" atheists... Good luck, I bring on all challengers...

Why don't they write a book called, "Atheists are Smarter then you; leave them alone, they use facts, rational though, and logic. You'll Lose."
I look forward to Joel Olsteen putting his face on that!

Other Comments by Edamus

50. Comment #221880 by hoops mccann on July 30, 2008 at 9:04 am

"Atheism Remix: A Christian Confronts the New Atheists "

Remix: as in repackaging old material? They never give up, gotta hand it to 'em. My question has always been: is anyone actually *buying* this material?

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