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Thursday, August 21, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version Print | Comments |

Document The rise of Miliband brings at last the prospect of an atheist prime minister

by AC Grayling - The Guardian

Thanks to Linda Ward Selbie for the link.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/21/davidmiliband.labourleadership?commentpage=1&commentposted=1


The rise of Miliband brings at last the prospect of an atheist prime minister

In this climate of quarrels between religionists and secularists, there are very many reasons to hope for a non-believer at No 10

When Labour cabinet members were asked about their religious allegiances last December, following Tony Blair's official conversion to Roman Catholicism, it turned out that more than half of them are not believers. The least equivocal about their atheism were the health secretary, Alan Johnson, and foreign secretary David Miliband.

The fact that Miliband is an atheist is a matter of special interest given the likelihood that he may one day, and perhaps soon, occupy No 10. In our present uncomfortable climate of quarrels between pushy religionists and resisting secularists - or attack-dog secularists and defensive religionists: which side you are on determines how you see it - there are many reasons why it would be a great advantage to everyone to have an atheist prime minister.

Atheist leaders are not going to think they are getting messages from Beyond telling them to go to war. They will not cloak themselves in supernaturalistic justifications, as Blair came perilously close to doing when interviewed about the decision to invade Iraq.

Atheist leaders will be sceptical about the claims of religious groups to be more important than other civil society organisations in doing good, getting public funds, meriting special privileges and exemptions from laws, and having seats in the legislature and legal protection from criticism, satire and challenge.

Atheist leaders are going to be more sceptical about inculcating sectarian beliefs into small children ghettoised into publicly funded faith-based schools, risking social divisiveness and possible future conflict. They will be readier to learn Northern Ireland's bleak lesson in this regard.

Atheist leaders will, by definition, be neutral between the different religious pressure groups in society, and will have no temptation not to be even-handed because of an allegiance to the outlook of just one of those groups.

Atheist leaders are more likely to take a literally down-to-earth view of the needs, interests and circumstances of people in the here and now, and will not be influenced by the belief that present sufferings and inequalities will be compensated in some posthumous dispensation. This is not a trivial point: for most of history those lower down the social ladder have been promised a perch at the top when dead, and kept quiet thereby. The claim that in an imperfect world one's hopes are better fixed on the afterlife than on hopes of earthly paradises is official church doctrine.

Atheist leaders will not be tempted to think they are the messenger of any good news from above, or the agent of any higher purpose on earth. Or at very least, they will not think this literally.

Best of all, if David Miliband becomes prime minister, the prospect of disestablishment of the Church of England will have come closer. This is a matter of importance, for two chief reasons. The first is that the CofE's privileged position gives other religious groups too much incentive to try sharp-elbowing their way into getting similar privileges, such as the ear of ministers, tax exemptions, public funding for their own sect's faith schools, and the big prize of seats in the legislature.

Secondly, the CofE has far too big a footprint in the public domain, out of all proportion to the actual numbers it represents: just 2% of the population go weekly to its churches. Yet it controls the primary school system - 80% of it - and a substantial proportion of the secondary school system, with dozens more academy schools soon due to fall under its control. It is entitled to have 26 bishops sitting in the House of Lords, plus a number more who have been made life peers on retiring; and it has the automatic ear of government - do not suppose that if Rowan Williams phones No 10 he is told no one is at home.

Having a statedly atheist British prime minister makes it more likely that the functional secularity of British life and politics, the foregoing exceptions noted, will become actual secularity. Secularism means that matters of public policy and government are not under the influence, still less control, of sectarian religious interests. The phrase "separation of church and state" does not quite capture the sense in which a genuinely secular arrangement keeps religious voices on a par with all other non-governmental voices in the public square, and all the non-governmental players in the public square separate from the government itself. It means that churches and religious movements have to see themselves as civil society organisations like trades unions, political parties, the Scouts, and so on: with every right to exist, and to have their say, but as self-constituted interest groups no more entitled to a bigger share of the public pie of influence, privilege, tax handouts, and legal exemptions than any other self-appointed interest group.

As things stand, religious groups in our society get a slice of the pie vastly larger than their numbers or merits truly justify. The big advantage of an atheist prime minister would be that he or she would see that fact, and act accordingly. An atheist is not going to have the lingering sense that because someone has chosen to believe one or another ancient dogma, he is to be respected and honoured, listened to, given the public's money to bring up his children in the same beliefs and exempted from some of the laws of the land.

Note that none of the foregoing represents either a desire or a prediction that an atheist prime minister will actively militate against religion, certainly not by outlawing it or passing laws that make religious observance more difficult. Instead, one result of the removal of privileges and public money might be that the artificial amplification of religious voices and points of view in our society, and the hold that religion can exert on children and the psychologically needy, might become less. Religion flourishes in conditions of active support and active persecution; in a socially and politically liberal climate it diminishes through natural causes.

Religion is a matter of choice in that, unlike race, age, gender or disability, you can change it, or not have it at all. True, most people's faith was driven into them when they were small children, and belief can be hard to shake off if your community will reject or hurt you for your apostasy. But it is still fundamentally voluntary. As such it should pay its own way and take its place in the queue along with everyone else. That is something that an atheist prime minister might say, and we might all breathe a great deal more easily as a result.

Despite appearances, the world is not seeing a resurgence of religion, only a big turning-up of the volume of religious voices. This is itself a response to increasing secularism among people tired of the disruptions, obstructions and conflicts religion so often causes. Public acknowledgement of atheism by a senior politician who might soon lead his country is just one indicator of the fact that the tide is actually running in the opposite direction: and that is a welcome and hopeful sign.

· AC Grayling is professor of philosophy at Birkbeck College, University of London a.grayling@philosophy.bbk.ac.uk

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1. Comment #234405 by petermun on August 21, 2008 at 10:09 am

A great article - read it over lunch and it made a rather boring prawn sandwich much more enjoyable. AC Grayling was on "Desert Island Discs" recently - a very good listen but not available on the listen again facility.

Other Comments by petermun

2. Comment #234414 by He'sAVeryNaughtyBoy on August 21, 2008 at 10:20 am

So let's asume Miliband becomes head of the "we support the working class folks, just so long as we don't have to do any of that work type stuff ourselves" Labour party, and we've got Nick Clegg leading the Libs. That's two out of three atheists.

Give Cameron a kick up the arse and we could be getting somewhere.

Other Comments by He'sAVeryNaughtyBoy

3. Comment #234417 by wengerj on August 21, 2008 at 10:24 am

I agree with petermun. It was a rather uplifting article to read. To bad the US is a long way from this kind of event taking place. We still have debate moderators asking about a candidate's relationship with jesus. Granted it wasn't a normal debate setting, but the fact that both Obama and McStain felt compelled to attend this debate annoyed me.

Other Comments by wengerj

4. Comment #234419 by jaytee_555 on August 21, 2008 at 10:25 am

In the words of the song, 'Wouldn't it be Loverly'

Other Comments by jaytee_555

5. Comment #234431 by perkyjay on August 21, 2008 at 10:56 am

What are the chances of Miliband making it to No.10 ? I haven't really had much to do with British politics since leaving the UK in 1957, except for a casual interest in elections. Much more interested in the Canadian scene and in hating the present federal government with a passion, mainly because of Harper's sneering attitude, which gets worse by the day.

Other Comments by perkyjay

6. Comment #234433 by lozzer on August 21, 2008 at 11:02 am

 avatarWhether he's an atheist or not it doesn't matter.He's still a incompetent,spineless,unassertive idiot who looks like a stunt double for Mr Bean but without the good looks.

I say we revolt and put Dawkins in power.

Other Comments by lozzer

7. Comment #234436 by hippee ki yay on August 21, 2008 at 11:07 am

Anyone got a link to the original survey of cabinet member's piety?

Other Comments by hippee ki yay

8. Comment #234445 by Forti on August 21, 2008 at 11:19 am

 avatarSo is this guy a rational atheist or "just" atheist?
The word's definition is very broad, for all you guys know he might be visiting a fortune teller. [/joke]

Other Comments by Forti

9. Comment #234452 by Cartomancer on August 21, 2008 at 11:39 am

 avatarIt's a good article, but a tad misleading in that we've had atheist prime ministers before. Clement Atlee and James Callaghan spring immediately to mind.

What dark and vile deities Thatcher worshipped is anyone's guess however...

Other Comments by Cartomancer

10. Comment #234454 by DamnDirtyApe on August 21, 2008 at 11:44 am

We can't just vote for Miliband just because he's an atheist. I might have to agree slighlty with Lozzer here.

Clegg is ok. Less evasive, but still pretty quiet at times. Sigh, the big 3 parties - still, better than the big 3 religions.

Other Comments by DamnDirtyApe

11. Comment #234455 by SomeDanGuy on August 21, 2008 at 11:48 am

Can someone clue in this yank on what "No 10" means?

Other Comments by SomeDanGuy

12. Comment #234458 by Steve Zara on August 21, 2008 at 11:53 am

Comment #234454 by DamnDirtyApe

I think Clegg has been awful. He has managed to work hard to stay beneath the political radar. I really wish that Vince Cable had stayed on. I don't know what his beliefs (if any) are, though.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

13. Comment #234459 by asupcb on August 21, 2008 at 11:53 am

lozzer

I know you are just joking about electing Richard to some sort of government position but unless UK politics is less dirty than US politics I have a feeling he would prefer not to be involved directly. Besides politicians have to at least pretend to care what other people think about them for the purposes of being elected and I don't think Richard cares much what others think of him, although he does care what ideas and memes they do believe.

Besides Richard doesn't understand economics all that thoroughly and therefore shouldn't be in a position to make important economic decisions (which is why in my country neither McCain nor Obama should be eligible to run for city councilman much less president of the country with the largest economy, by GDP figures, in the world). That is not a slight against Richard at all, as he is an absolutely brilliant biologist with quite the hobby for philosophy and religion. That Richard would make a terrible politician is one of the best compliments that a person can receive in my opinion.

Other Comments by asupcb

14. Comment #234462 by SharonMcT on August 21, 2008 at 12:00 pm

 avatarSomeDanGuy:

This Canadian will tell you that Number 10 refers to the residence of the Prime Minister. It is located at Number 10 Downing Street in London.

Other Comments by SharonMcT

15. Comment #234463 by JAMCAM87 on August 21, 2008 at 12:00 pm

 avatarComment 9 by Cartomancer

Clement Atlee was the greatest British prime minister who ever lived. Interesting to find out he was an atheist.

Steve,

The liberal democrats have been truly appalling at winning the support of the public. They simply aren't radical enough. They are guilty of this "move to the centre" nonsense that Labour and the Conservatives have been doing.

Other Comments by JAMCAM87

16. Comment #234464 by Steve Zara on August 21, 2008 at 12:01 pm

Comment #234463 by JAMCAM87

I felt there was a glimmer of hope with Vince Cable in charge. He was the one who said that Gordon Brown has changed from Stalin to Mr Bean...

Other Comments by Steve Zara

17. Comment #234466 by JAMCAM87 on August 21, 2008 at 12:05 pm

 avatar16. Comment #234464 by Steve Zara

Vince Cable reminded me of when Charlie Kennedy was appointed leader. It's a shame. An opportunity wasted. They won't be getting my vote come election time unfortunately.

Other Comments by JAMCAM87

18. Comment #234470 by Peacebeuponme on August 21, 2008 at 12:10 pm

Cartomancer
What dark and vile deities Thatcher worshipped is anyone's guess however...
You think Beelzebub herself worshipped another?

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

19. Comment #234472 by tieInterceptor on August 21, 2008 at 12:12 pm

 avatarAmazing article,

I'm flabbergasted that something like this is actually on the newspapers, it means that the atheist blow back against the theist attempts to gain political power is starting to pay off.

hip hip , hurray.

Other Comments by tieInterceptor

20. Comment #234474 by Peacebeuponme on August 21, 2008 at 12:13 pm

Steve Zara
I think Clegg has been awful. He has managed to work hard to stay beneath the political radar.
This is a real shame. I though he handled himself superbly in the debates he had when running for the party leadership. He seemed much more self-assured than previous liberal leaders, or indeed Gordon Broon.

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

21. Comment #234478 by Ishruul on August 21, 2008 at 12:18 pm

 avatarAh! Politic, the ancient art of looking good to the people for the wellfare of statu quo.

The only difference between an atheist prime minister or a religious one will be 5 minutes not spend praying before going to bed. They'll still operate in lobbying's bussiness anyway.

Other Comments by Ishruul

22. Comment #234480 by Mark Till on August 21, 2008 at 12:20 pm

 avatarAnother Vince Cable fan here, I must say. One of the few genuinely clear and intelligent voices in British politics. Especially on his home subject of economics.

But Miliband is completely uninspiring. Sadly, a large section of the British public seems to have become so shallow and moronic they'll only vote for people who look young and dress fashionably, regardless of policy or ideas. Depressing.

Other Comments by Mark Till

23. Comment #234481 by Buddha on August 21, 2008 at 12:23 pm

 avatarSteve Zara:

I felt there was a glimmer of hope with Vince Cable in charge. He was the one who said that Gordon Brown has changed from Stalin to Mr Bean...


Totally agree with you there. Vince Cable was excellent during his acting leadership, especially his appearances during Prime Ministers Questions. I am mystified at why he was dropped for Clegg. Maybe his day will come.

Other Comments by Buddha

24. Comment #234492 by TIKI AL on August 21, 2008 at 12:40 pm

"Besides Richard doesn't understand economics all that thoroughly and therefore shouldn't be in a position to make important economic decisions" (13. asupcb)

That never stopped Alan "I caused the housing bubble" Greenspan.
Richard could speed read Greenspan's book in 10 minutes to learn what NOT to do, and become a brilliant world class economist.

Other Comments by TIKI AL

25. Comment #234495 by HumanisticJones on August 21, 2008 at 12:47 pm

Can someone clue in this yank on what "No 10" means?


It means 10 Downing St. in London, residence of the Prime Minister.

Let it never be said that an American never learned anything about Great Britain from watching Dr. Who.

Other Comments by HumanisticJones

26. Comment #234496 by steveroot on August 21, 2008 at 12:47 pm

 avatar
14. Comment #234462 by SharonMcT on August 21, 2008 at 12:00 pm

This Canadian will tell you that Number 10 refers to the residence of the Prime Minister. It is located at Number 10 Downing Street in London.

Thanks, Sharon,
And I'm sticking up for many others here in the US who *do* know what the reference means!
(Pats self smugly on the back, trips and falls. D'oh!)
Ste5e

Other Comments by steveroot

27. Comment #234508 by Sargeist on August 21, 2008 at 1:10 pm

 avatarThe trouble is, I think, that an openly atheist prime minister would end up having to contend with too many criticisms that he or she was deliberately prejudiced against religious people. Meetings with, say, Saudi fighter plane buyers could be slightly awkward if the atheism of the Prime Minister were a talking point.

Not that I would mind, particularly. I think it would be best, for instance, if we told the "government" of these absurd countries to fuck off and keep their billions of pounds, and we just find other jobs for fighter plane builders to do. Hence why I am unlikely ever to become a political animal.

Other Comments by Sargeist

28. Comment #234513 by TIKI AL on August 21, 2008 at 1:24 pm

I am an American living 3 miles from the ASU Gammage Center where Richard spoke in Tempe, Arizona, and also know who resides at #10.

In fact, I have a picture of myself standing in front of 10 Downing.

When you try that at 1600 Pennsylvania Av, you get a free trip to Cuba!

Other Comments by TIKI AL

29. Comment #234517 by clearthinker on August 21, 2008 at 1:31 pm

I thought the fact that people were atheists was irrelevant to how they lead, just as much as if they have a moustache is irrelevant to how they lead. Or at least that is what we are always told when great atheist leaders of the past are mentioned.....I guess Grayling can have his cake and eat it...

Personally I could not care whether Millibrand is an atheist or not. I vote for a politician - not because they are an 'a' anything but because of what they stand for. So far he seems to stand for war in Iraq, more market capitalism and more spin. Do you really want atheism to be associated with that?

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30. Comment #234518 by decius on August 21, 2008 at 1:35 pm

 avatarComment #234517 by clearthinker

Why don't you use the basic courtesy to post under a single moniker?

Other Comments by decius

31. Comment #234520 by Corylus on August 21, 2008 at 1:38 pm

 avatarDecius
Why don't you use the basic courtesy to post under a single moniker?
Yes, you are right. That says a great deal about the Rev. David Roberston.

Other Comments by Corylus

32. Comment #234523 by David A Robertson on August 21, 2008 at 1:46 pm

Sorry - force of habit....been so long since I was allowed to post under my own name....have got used to the new one. Such a despicable thing to do....shows what a dishonest, lying, thieving, ignorant, relgious troll I must be.

Anyway children - are you happy now?

Meanwhile back to the point. Anyone else find it amusing and self contradictory that whereas Stalins atheism is of no more relevance than his facial hair, Millibrands atheism is seen as a reason why he would be a better leader and why we should vote for him?

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33. Comment #234524 by Sciros on August 21, 2008 at 1:51 pm

 avatarThe reason it's not contradictory is that some actions/decisions a person makes are supported/influenced by that person's lack of religious convictions, while other actions/decisions are not. An example of the former is not privileging one religion's charitable services over another's. An example of the latter is killing political dissidents.

Other Comments by Sciros

34. Comment #234525 by AllanW on August 21, 2008 at 1:52 pm

 avatarComment #234523 by David A Robertson on August 21, 2008 at 1:46 pm
'Anyone else find it amusing and self contradictory that whereas Stalins atheism is of no more relevance than his facial hair, Millibrands atheism is seen as a reason why he would be a better leader and why we should vote for him? '

No. you lying cretinous troll, as people are quite rightly saying, it wpuld have little bearing on whether they would vote for him. I add myself to that list.

Other Comments by AllanW

35. Comment #234526 by decius on August 21, 2008 at 1:54 pm

 avatarComment #234523 by David A Robertson

The point is having someone, religious or not, more likely to subscribe to a secular agenda. An atheist is possibly more likely to do so.

A secular humanist agenda is just the opposite of Stalin's policies. Don't make us repeat why for the umpteenth time.

As a foreign observer, I couldn't help noticing the damage inflicted by knee-bending Blair in his eternal pandering to religious institutions and sectarian schools.

Other Comments by decius

36. Comment #234527 by Logicel on August 21, 2008 at 1:56 pm

 avatardecius writes: A secular humanist agenda is just the opposite of Stalin's policies. Don't make us repeat why for the umpteenth time.
____

Your having to repeat the obvious just shows how the dipshit thinks he understand the points made at this site, but in reality, he does not. Christian brain rot is a serious disorder. So sad.

Other Comments by Logicel

37. Comment #234528 by Sargeist on August 21, 2008 at 2:01 pm

 avatarWe usually, I think, feel that person X's atheism is not more likely to make them into a maniacal killer because atheism does not have dogmas that incite murderous hatred. Whereas almost every religion's god does encourage the active opposition, if not murder, of the outgroup.

So, while there can be stupid, annoying, insane and psychopathic atheists, it is only religion that seems to make otherwise normal people into idiotic, life-hating retards.

Other Comments by Sargeist

38. Comment #234529 by Logicel on August 21, 2008 at 2:01 pm

 avatarDavid Robertson writes: Anyway children - are you happy now?
_____

We were happy before and still are happy. Don't you wish you could be as innocent and joyful like a child instead of the dessicated fucktard that you are?

Other Comments by Logicel

39. Comment #234533 by mdowe on August 21, 2008 at 2:07 pm

 avatarRe: 5. Comment #234431 by perkyjay

As a fellow Canadian, I have always found that tracking British and American policies generally augurs an official Canadian position. Often it provides this insight hours, days or even weeks before our elected representatives (cough..) officially articulate it.

As to Harper and his neo-Tories, we will soon have chance to vote the silly sods out of office. It is just too bad that means we have to let one of the other political flocks take the helm.

Other Comments by mdowe

40. Comment #234535 by fizhburn on August 21, 2008 at 2:14 pm

 avatarIf there were reason to believe that being an atheist actually motivated promoting a secularist agenda, it would in fact be a defeasible reason to vote for the candidate. Grayling is giving some reasons to prefer atheists to theists in general; but whether Miliband promotes secularism is where the real test lies. Perhaps those of you on the island can tell us?

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41. Comment #234536 by Jesus Jones on August 21, 2008 at 2:14 pm

It's encouraging that politicians can openly assert that they are athiests, however just because they don't believe in one (or many) god's doesn't mean all their political policies are going to be well thought out and for the greater benefit of society. I doubt anyone can claim there haven't been a few pious leaders in the past (obviously not the recent past) who haven't been great leaders and who have brought great change and prosperity to their nation.

And I think it was mentioned in an earlier comment that to vote for someone just because of their lack of belief in god is comparable to voting for someone because of their belief in god - and we all know where that got the US.

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42. Comment #234546 by David A Robertson on August 21, 2008 at 2:34 pm

Still waiting for an answer to the question - why is Stalins atheism as irrelevant as his facial hair but Millibrands is relevant?

There are of course those who have already posted that it does not make one iota of difference to them. ie. Jesus Jones (great post by the way). Good on you - at least you are being consistent. But there are significant number who seem to think this is great news - including Grayling. (and see the quote below) - so again let me ask the question. I look forward to the answer.

I'm flabbergasted that something like this is actually on the newspapers, it means that the atheist blow back against the theist attempts to gain political power is starting to pay off.

hip hip , hurray.


Other Comments by David A Robertson

43. Comment #234547 by Eventhorizon on August 21, 2008 at 2:35 pm

 avatarI doubt if Millibands atheism would even register in the media. I just cant see it being a big deal in England - unless the xtians really tried to make a big thing of it.
Any mention of religion in politics over here is looked upon with suspicion and even scorn.
In fact the mention of religion almost anywhere is received with a roll of the eyes and a tut

Other Comments by Eventhorizon

44. Comment #234550 by Goldy on August 21, 2008 at 2:44 pm

 avatar
Still waiting for an answer to the question - why is Stalins atheism as irrelevant as his facial hair but Millibrands is relevant?
Whether somenone was religious or not is irrelevant - politicians are all the same. Never trust them!
As it is, I think Stalin's atheism is used more to describe his killings as opposed to his politics (one could argue that his politics was the killing, but that could also have been because of his paranoia or his moustache..).
Generally, people appear to equate religion with fine up-standingness etc (as well as a bit of looniness - not that much a concern given that people actually did, and indeed still do, vote for the Monster Raving Loony Party http://www.omrlp.com/). Atheism is equated to genocide and robotic adherence to master race formation or some such drivel.
Hopefully Tony and George have sown the seeds of mistrust in religion in politics. Luckily politicians are always viewed with suspicion... ;-)

Other Comments by Goldy

45. Comment #234551 by theantitheist on August 21, 2008 at 2:44 pm

 avatarCartomancer & Peacebeuponme - Watch your backs.

Having a go at Maggie Thatcher will get you into a lot of trouble, i for one would rise up and defend her if i thought it necessary. However i now she can deal with the likes of you herself! She can hear everything (even typing) and she will visit you in your sleep and kill you in imaginative ways. Thats how she got rid of Russia and the Unions. Yup Yup.

Other Comments by theantitheist

46. Comment #234552 by decius on August 21, 2008 at 2:44 pm

 avatarComment #234546 by David A Robertson

Still waiting for an answer to the question


That's rich, coming from you.

Other Comments by decius

47. Comment #234553 by Border Collie on August 21, 2008 at 2:47 pm

 avatarI'd doubt if any politician, atheist or not, could live up to that rosy forecast. I can't imagine it ever happening here in the US.

Other Comments by Border Collie

48. Comment #234554 by Donald on August 21, 2008 at 2:52 pm

I liked this piece by Grayling. I had not noticed that Miliband was openly athiest, but I'm glad to hear it. I have mixed feelings about his suitability for PM. He seems to lack maturity to me. But at least he should be against the appalling "faith school" policy of Blair and Brown. That alone would encourage me to vote for him.

[ David Robertson: Trolling again I see. Can't you see any difference between historical dictators and their cruelty in pursuit of extreme power (which occurs at least as frequently in religious dictators as atheist ones), and commenting on current democratic politicians and how their beliefs might directly affect one or two policies of particular interest to certain minorities? ]

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49. Comment #234555 by Dinah on August 21, 2008 at 2:57 pm

I would love to think an atheist PM would have the guts to state that all religion has a dark, evil side, should be a private matter only, and have no place in public life, in politics or in the running of schools.

Currently, New Labour's stance on religion is mired in self-contradiction, trying to convince the electorate what a Good Thing it is, by opening more religious schools, getting religious bodies to run a wide range of public institutions, and attempting to pass thought-crime laws making hatred of religion a criminal offence, while at the same time warning us that we are all in danger from acts of religious terrorism and enacting more and more repressive laws to try to prevent them.

Without wishing to appear too cynical, I suspect if Milliband did become PM he would bend over backwards to appease the religious, particularly if he thought they were going to vote for his party, mouth the same old platitudes about what a peace-loving religion Islam is, and continue to send off more troops to Afghanistan to be blown up by the Taliban.

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50. Comment #234559 by bachfiend on August 21, 2008 at 3:02 pm

Was Clement Atlee an atheist? I would love him to have been one, great prime minister that he was, but the best evidence I have been able to find is his quote on Christianity: "Believe in the ethics. Can't accept the mumbo jumbo".

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