1. Comment #250540 by mordacious1 on September 19, 2008 at 9:56 pm

That is great news! Now if they ban it, it will become a bestseller in no time.

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2. Comment #250542 by Anandkshivanna on September 19, 2008 at 9:57 pm

Wow, that's cool

By banning the website Turkey court cannot stop people from "free-thinking".

Now Turkey had fought back by buying more RD books

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3. Comment #250544 by History_Junky on September 19, 2008 at 10:00 pm

This is great news.

Also.

In before comments get derailed into bashing turkeys application into the EU.

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4. Comment #250549 by Hellene on September 19, 2008 at 10:32 pm

Great news! I salute free thinking Turks.

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5. Comment #250553 by Opisthokont on September 19, 2008 at 10:40 pm

Indeed this is good news, but keep in mind that it is only two thousand copies.

Meanwhile: "Professor Dawkins' website has been closed down due to the comments that violate Adnan Oktar's personal rights by the decision of the court in Istanbul." Shut down?! What am I posting to, then? And if these people continue to think that comments can violate someone's personal rights, they have a lot of growing up to do before they can join the rest of the civilised world as they keep wanting to.

EDIT: Sorry, yes, I *am* bashing Turkey's application into the EU. The fact that they can sell two thousand copies of a popular-science book the day that two thousand copies are made available is simply not sufficient reason to celebrate. The situation might be otherwise if the article at least examined the allegations of violation of someone's personal rights. Mentioning the allegations uncritically, as was done here, cannot go unnoticed by observers. I do not mean to thrash against this article reflexively, so much as to point out that this is how the Turks represent their thinking, and it is inherently incompatible with the sort of civilisation for which the EU stands. They could just as easily have sidestepped the whole matter and not mentioned the "shutting down" (and of course they could do some actual investigation and get their facts straight). It could reasonably be argued that this is how most Turks are going to recognise Richard Dawkins; but if that is the case, I would like to see more articles addressing the "shutting down" and the "violation" of "personal rights" -- and the reasonableness lacking in the notion of anyone's right not to be insulted, even and especially if the comments that they find insulting happen to be backed up by truth.

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6. Comment #250557 by Spinoza on September 19, 2008 at 10:59 pm

This is my favourite Dawkins book. I think it's easily his best. I think it's comparable in brilliance to Darwin's Origin... no word of a lie!

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7. Comment #250571 by riemann on September 19, 2008 at 11:48 pm

One interesting anecdote: The literal translation of the name of the book should've been 'Atanin Hikayesi' (that is, singular. 'Atalarin Hikayesi' is plural, The Ancestors' Tale). But the singular usage would have been perceived as referring to Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, founder of modern Turkish state (Ataturk: Ancestor (of) Turk, and he's routinely referred solely as 'Ata'), and even that perceived allegory could get you in trouble in Turkey, big time! (Don't ask!) So the publisher presumably took the high road with the politically correct choice of this title.

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8. Comment #250573 by Elles on September 19, 2008 at 11:52 pm

"Professor Dawkins' website has been closed down due to the comments that violate Adnan Oktar's personal rights by the decision of the court in Istanbul."

Violates his personal rights?

What? Did Dawkins order an Atheist Fatwa on Adnan Oktar? I missed the memo.

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9. Comment #250578 by King of NH on September 20, 2008 at 12:16 am

First, let's see what happens to the 2 thousand copies. I hear American flags and oversized GW Bush dolls are also very popular in some nations.

I hope this is a sign that the harder these religious nuts push, the more they damage their own cause. Look at the controversy and hysteria caused by a book. No suicide bombing, or honor killing, or violent assault, or prison sentence, or burning churches... A book. If the freethinkers stay on the side of peaceful debate, maybe we can win more minds. After all, we don't need to push and preach nearly as much, since we aren't proposing the preposterous.

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10. Comment #250580 by robaylesbury on September 20, 2008 at 12:21 am

The beauty of an Ancestors Tale is in its ability to instill a sense of wonder. The sheer majesty, complexity, and epic grandeur of life as it goes about its business.

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11. Comment #250589 by ridelo on September 20, 2008 at 12:55 am

I hope it was not Adnan Oktar who bought the 2000 copies...

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12. Comment #250595 by js8765 on September 20, 2008 at 1:13 am

This is good news alright but should be put into perspecitve. Even if it wasn't Adnan Oktar who bought all the books, the fact is that they were only 2000 copies and the population of Turkey is over 70 million.

Still, who know's, maybe 70,000 copies would also have sold out! And the fact that this is Turkey that we're talking about makes it worth noting...

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13. Comment #250607 by Vadjong on September 20, 2008 at 2:05 am

11. Comment #250589 by ridelo on September 20, 2008 at 12:55 am
I hope it was not Adnan Oktar who bought the 2000 copies...

Ofcourse it was !
This is too abnormal to be coincidence.
Well, let the free market do its job, and they'll end up with millions of copies and Richard gets all their money !

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14. Comment #250613 by JernJane on September 20, 2008 at 2:09 am

Enlightenment to the masses! The truth shall be told!!

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15. Comment #250615 by Jack Rawlinson on September 20, 2008 at 2:16 am

Well, this is the best outcome possible, isn't it? One in the eye for the likes of Adnan Oktar and his vile ilk.

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16. Comment #250617 by Vaal on September 20, 2008 at 2:22 am

Good news. I took ancestors tale on holiday with me, brilliant book. Once I had finished reading it, I found that the rest of the people at my villa took an interest in reading it.

Right, just off outside to investigate a strange bright yellow thing in the sky, and the unusual phenomenon of the sky being an odd blue colour, instead of the usual dull grey.

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17. Comment #250621 by dirkgently84 on September 20, 2008 at 2:25 am

Hello, I'm yet another atheist from Turkey that came to this site after the banning. It is nice to see the first pressing is sold out. I'm sure it will sell well especially after these news of website banning. Last year I had bought a recent pressing of the Selfish Gene (which was published by TUBITAK http://www.tubitak.gov.tr/home.do?ot=10&lang=en) and inside it said more than 20.000 copies sold. Also, the God Delusion is still in the best seller shelves of the bookstores. I hope this ridiculous (and seemingly ineffective) ban will be lifted soon.

Peace!

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18. Comment #250625 by Tumara Baap on September 20, 2008 at 2:54 am

I certainly hope those who bought it actually read it. It took me months to finish. I don't have a strong biology background, which made all the zoology references hard to follow without being able to visualize the subject matter. If they can have an illustrated version of the Da Vinci Code, then surely Ancestor's Tale should qualify as a candidate.
Dawkin's is in his element writing this book. TGD seems almost dumbed down in comparison. Ancestor's Tale is rich, detailed, and introduces one to a plethora of provocative concepts and perspectives. It's a must read for anyone interested in evolution.

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19. Comment #250627 by hien on September 20, 2008 at 3:06 am

"advocate of evolution theory"

Why do people say stupid things like that?

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20. Comment #250631 by huzonfurst on September 20, 2008 at 3:30 am

I joined the chorus of Turkey-bashers by sending a scathing e-mail to contact@turkishembassy.org (sp?). Turkey gets points for maintaining a secular government for all these decades, but it seems to be weakening just when it wants into the EU. Of course with all the BONEHEADED MULTICULTURALISTS infesting so many European governments these days they just might let it in!

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21. Comment #250636 by TimurHan on September 20, 2008 at 3:38 am

Turkish guys created a programme called 'Anti Sansur' that people can see all of the banned pages from Turkey, like me :) free thinking will never ban!!! Thank you Richard Dawkins

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22. Comment #250637 by Matt H. on September 20, 2008 at 3:41 am

On the one hand, it was probably Harun Yahya that bought all the books so nobody else could.... but on the other, Richard and the publishers still get some money which means more could be published, all across Turkey, in every bookstore in the land. That'll drive the creationists mad.

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23. Comment #250648 by Francis Clarke on September 20, 2008 at 4:16 am

Brilliant! I loved that book, and I hope the turks love it too. I'd like nothing better than it to spark doubt of religion in some minds, and help give tools to people who want to know the truth about our origins!

"Comment #250553 by Opisthokont

Indeed this is good news, but keep in mind that it is only two thousand copies."

Yes, but if only 1 of those 2000 people are inspired the book will be a success!

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24. Comment #250688 by rod-the-farmer on September 20, 2008 at 6:28 am

Surely someone in the Turkish publishing industry can verify if all 2,000 copies were purchased by one individual ? And does the publisher intend to product another run ? Maybe 4,000 copies, and this time perhaps some of the Turkish residents who attend this blog, could drop by the bookstores where the books were sent ? Maybe track them from printer to bookstores ?

The devil is in the details, to coin a phrase. But encouraging news, none the less.

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25. Comment #250708 by dirkgently84 on September 20, 2008 at 6:53 am

Well I'm not in the publishing industry but I seriously doubt this is the case. Given the popularity of the god delusion and the excitement around the recent banning, it is possible that it sold out first 2000 copies. Anyway, I checked out some shopping sites and they say it'll be available again monday, I'll visit some bookstores and tell you in two days.

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26. Comment #250744 by Corylus on September 20, 2008 at 8:20 am

This is encouraging. Well done to those who bought it, I hope they enjoy it.

----

Tumara, I completely agree, it is an amazing book.

Also, *whispers behind hand* I found it very hard too.

I do like it people honestly admit when they find things tough, (not just because it make me feel less alone:-), but also because I suspect that very few things worth understanding are intrinsically easy.

Elegant? Yes. Easy? No.

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27. Comment #250745 by jaytee_555 on September 20, 2008 at 8:24 am

The publisher said he was

".....suprised, because all distribution orders were finished in a day, and this has happened for the first time in 26 years of the publishing company history."

Adnan Oktars seems to have money to burn. I hope he hasn't bought the entire 2000 and trashed them.
I wouldn't put it past him.

Edit: Ooops...I see someone has already suggested this as a possibility.

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28. Comment #250750 by Paine on September 20, 2008 at 8:46 am

I hope Oktar has bought all the copies. He'll soon learn that we can produce them as fast as he can buy them.
This should go on and on and Oktar will be RDFRS' biggest donor.

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29. Comment #250760 by errm... on September 20, 2008 at 9:33 am

Yes Paine, when cardinal Wolsey's boys bought up all copies of an english bible printed in the low countries it paid for a new edition with woodcut illustrations!
As to the book itself; it was published on the first day of my holiday that year and I don't recall much else about the holiday.

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30. Comment #250761 by uyar on September 20, 2008 at 9:33 am

good for atheist turks... i'll buy the book as soon as i can find it.. god delusion's translation was awefull :) i hope this is much better.. we'll see

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31. Comment #250762 by flibble on September 20, 2008 at 9:38 am

"f they can have an illustrated version of the Da Vinci Code, then surely Ancestor's Tale should qualify as a candidate."

I bought it when it first came out in (very large) hardback and it was fully illustrated. I must admit that when the paperback came out, I imagined it would be a much less impressive book (although I haven't actually seen a copy of the PB close up).

Edit: correct a typo

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32. Comment #250775 by ridelo on September 20, 2008 at 10:20 am

The Ancestors Tale a difficult read? Wait until you read The Extended Phenotype. My half read copy is standing in my book-case, laughing in my face and nagging me to begin again. But someday...

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33. Comment #250777 by mordacious1 on September 20, 2008 at 10:24 am

I hope that Richard's books are selling for a decent price in Turkey, so that many people can afford them. I wonder what the library system (if there is one) is like in Turkey, and would they have copies of Richard's books. Sometimes we take libraries for granted in western democracies.

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34. Comment #250779 by mulder on September 20, 2008 at 10:34 am

mordacious1

I wonder what the library system (if there is one) is like in Turkey

and people here in Turkey do live in caves, too. Furthermore,
We don't have anything whatsoever related to books, technological devices etc...

I really can not believe the foreigners' impression of Turkey.Guyss! Do read books and make some research on the net!It is all out there!

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35. Comment #250783 by lordpasternack on September 20, 2008 at 10:39 am

Well that's quite the beautiful irony in light of the website having recently been banned in the same country. Perhaps there's no such thing as bad publicity after all.

Here's hoping that Richard's next book on the evidence for evolution does as well as this in Turkey - and Oktar will finally get what he richly deserves: to be laughed at and forgotten.

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36. Comment #250787 by mordacious1 on September 20, 2008 at 10:43 am

mulder

Sorry that I'm not aware of the library systems in all nations of the world...there are countries that have free public libraries and those that don't. sheeesssshhh!

[edit] "Do read books". And what book exactly would discuss every library system on the planet?

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37. Comment #250790 by dirkgently84 on September 20, 2008 at 10:49 am

@mordacious1

Two of Prof. Dawkins' books (The Selfish Gene and The Blind Watchmaker) are published by TUBITAK (http://www.tubitak.gov.tr/home.do?ot=10&lang=en) and sold at very reasonable prices.

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38. Comment #250791 by Luthien on September 20, 2008 at 10:53 am

Hey, I support Turkey's EU Application! I think if we let them in it will be easier to hold them to our standards on free speech. If there were 10 countries like Turkey I would be against it though, as it might tip the balance against the freedoms we enjoy. It's easier to liberalise a country if you have a large affluent middle class who want to read such things as The Ancestor's Tale, and the effect of member status on their economy might help this along.

Edit:
@Mulder: A friend of mine is Turkish, and he is as European in his outlook as I am (he would say he is a muslim, but also says he is not religious). Turkey definitely belongs with us culturally.

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39. Comment #250810 by oneguycoding on September 20, 2008 at 12:24 pm

Woohoo! I guess Prof Dawkins will be buying the Guinness tonight, or perhaps the Efes Pilsen,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efes_Pilsen

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40. Comment #250823 by NormanDoering on September 20, 2008 at 2:06 pm

PZ wants to start smuggling atheist literature into Turkey:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/09/those_inconsistent_turks.php

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41. Comment #250826 by mordacious1 on September 20, 2008 at 2:29 pm

NormanD.

In that link you provided, PZ seems to be implying that "they" bought all the copies of "Ancestor's Tale". Do you read his comment also that "they" bought up the copies of the book to keep them out of the hands of the people? If so, I think that this would be ridiculous. Does he have any proof of this? Maybe I'm reading his comment wrong, but if I am, why would we need to "smuggle" in atheist literature?

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42. Comment #250828 by decius on September 20, 2008 at 2:37 pm

Comment #250826 by mordacious1

There were only 2000 copies to begin with. It isn't an outlandish hypothesis, if you consider how much money 'they' funnel into the free distribution of their crappy atlas.

Other Comments by decius

43. Comment #250830 by mordacious1 on September 20, 2008 at 2:48 pm

decius

So, print 10,000 more copies, then 10,000 more and Richard and the publisher make some loose change. As long as the book isn't being banned, buying up the copies is stupid.

Other Comments by mordacious1

44. Comment #250833 by decius on September 20, 2008 at 2:57 pm

Comment #250830 by mordacious1

I agree that it's highly unlikely, but well within their policies of silencing critics and they have the economic power to do it.

There was an analogous case in Italy, a couple of years ago. All copies of a volume highly critical of Berlusconi were bought by a single entity the same day of publication, but only in airport book stores.

I can't recall which one it was, but I'll check it out.

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45. Comment #250856 by TurkishAtheist on September 20, 2008 at 4:29 pm

This is a start, the book will eventually sell 10000s, superstition can not and should win against science. Science will prevail dogma will lose.
Secular Turkey forever, islam out of my land!!!!!!

Other Comments by TurkishAtheist

46. Comment #250863 by TurkishAtheist on September 20, 2008 at 4:56 pm

But I read some comments very ridiculous like "if there is a library in Turkey" , besides all the hype Turkey is still a secular democratic country you accept it or not. we have lots libraries and there are many atheists in Turkey, no one knows how many cause they don't speak out that much, but that will change because of internet.

I guarantee Turkey will be the first muslim country to literally eliminate islam in its borders even before US eliminates evangelical christians . Turks are NOT Arabs and islam is NOT our religion (specially hardcore atheist like me), Turks do not understand Arabic written language and not even its translation makes sense to its people, € of Turks probably never read quran in their lives. I have never seen my family holding that book I don't even think we have one, well if we did I would have a use for it in the toilet.
Peace!!

some Turks gets offended by this but I don't care if they do!! I'm just tired kissing up!!

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47. Comment #250865 by Hellene on September 20, 2008 at 5:02 pm

46. Comment #250863 by TurkishAtheist

I raise my glass to you my friend.

Other Comments by Hellene

48. Comment #250875 by mordacious1 on September 20, 2008 at 5:20 pm

Turkishatheist

"But I read some comments very ridiculous like "if there is a library in Turkey" ,

If you're going to quote someone, do it accurately. I think you're referring to a comment on another thread where I was wondering if there was a free public library SYSTEM. Not a "library". The question really pertains to how many rural communities have libraries and are they free and public.

For you to think that everyone else in different countries know which nations have and do not have public library systems is "ridiculous".

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49. Comment #250967 by kev_s on September 21, 2008 at 12:05 am

It says ...

... all distribution orders were finished in a day

. 'Distribution orders' (plural) does not suggest one person bought the lot, unless the publisher is deliberately hiding the truth.

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50. Comment #250969 by Richard Dawkins on September 21, 2008 at 12:13 am

I certainly hope those who bought it actually read it. It took me months to finish. I don't have a strong biology background, which made all the zoology references hard to follow without being able to visualize the subject matter. If they can have an illustrated version of the Da Vinci Code, then surely Ancestor's Tale should qualify as a candidate.
Dawkins is in his element writing this book. TGD seems almost dumbed down in comparison. Ancestor's Tale is rich, detailed, and introduces one to a plethora of provocative concepts and perspectives. It's a must read for anyone interested in evolution.

It sounds as though you have the American edition. The British edition is rich in colour illustrations, exactly as you are requesting.
www.amazon.co.uk/Ancestors-Tale-Pilgrimage-Dawn-Life/dp/0297825038/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221981194&sr=8-2

I'm afraid I don't know whether the Turkish publishers elected to translate the British or the American edition, but I'll try to find out.

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