Saturday, September 20, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version

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Art teacher made student pray to Jesus for forgiveness

by Blabbermouth

Thanks to Witch Burner for the link.

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=105182

Art teacher made student pray to Jesus for forgiveness

Former ROB ZOMBIE guitarist and current SCUM OF THE EARTH frontman Riggs' 13-year-old son was reportedly reprimanded by his eighth-grade art teacher for wearing an inappropriate t-shirt in the classroom. The art teacher allegedly insulted the student in front of his peers, dragged him out of class into the hallway and forced him to pray on his knees for forgiveness from Jesus Christ. Later that day, the principal had commented that "we will have to have a board meeting about the situation."

"This is ridiculous," says Riggs. "[The school in question] is a public school, and there's supposed to be a separation between church and state. The shirt my son was wearing was for my band, SCUM OF THE EARTH. It didn't contain any foul language, it's simply a drawing of a monster on a cross... and nothing more. You would think that someone who's an art teacher would have some understanding of the concept of freedom of speech, and artistic freedom of expression, however this lady is clearly a religions nutcase. It's just another example of how these people have infiltrated public schools, government and politics in an effort to force their own agenda upon anyone who doesn't necessarily believe exactly what they do — regardless of what the First Amendment of the United States Constitution says."

He continues, "This whole town is whacked... we're an honest law-abiding family that doesn't cause any harm to anyone around here. Just because I have lots of tattoos, long hair and play in a rock band, the entire town thinks we worship Satan and sacrifice animals to the devil. It's difficult for me to see what's going on in this country, how the religious right is slowly making it acceptable to violate the very laws upon which our great country was founded. I can respect freedom of religion, but shouldn't that also mean that religious people should respect non-religion or other religions as well? Time and time again, we see that the religions right clearly doesn't believe so."

When asked if he is considering legal action against the school system, Riggs replied, "It's not entirely out of the question. I mean, the manner in which this woman handled the situation was extremely inappropriate, the stuff she said and what she did. It's something we're looking into right now, and considering contacting the American Civil Liberties Union Foundation."

Posted: Saturday, September 20, 2008 | Permalink

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1. Comment #250838 by Even Adam on September 20, 2008 at 3:12 pm

Absolutely disgusting.

Other Comments by Even Adam

2. Comment #250839 by ggab7768 on September 20, 2008 at 3:17 pm

GET'EM RIGGS!!!
None of us should ever sit on our hands in a situation like this.
And an art teacher!! That really hurts.

Other Comments by ggab7768

3. Comment #250840 by decius on September 20, 2008 at 3:18 pm

Comment #250839 by ggab7768

Should we dance on our hands, instead?

Other Comments by decius

4. Comment #250841 by ggab7768 on September 20, 2008 at 3:23 pm

Are you commenting about my dancing monkey?
Yeah, my monkey dances. What of it?
You're just jealous.

Other Comments by ggab7768

5. Comment #250842 by decius on September 20, 2008 at 3:29 pm

Comment #250841 by ggab7768

You're just jealous.

Exactly!

Other Comments by decius

6. Comment #250843 by Dustin14 on September 20, 2008 at 3:29 pm

I couldn't help but laugh that the latest news section currently reads like this, "Art teacher made student pray to Jesus for forgiveness." "Look Who's Irrational Now" and that second article is supposed to be about how rational evangelicals are compared to atheists.

Other Comments by Dustin14

7. Comment #250846 by MedMonkey on September 20, 2008 at 3:52 pm

I hope he does sue the school system! This kind of behavior requires publicity. The public needs to know!

Other Comments by MedMonkey

8. Comment #250850 by root2squared on September 20, 2008 at 4:05 pm

Fire the teacher.

Other Comments by root2squared

9. Comment #250851 by Double Bass Atheist on September 20, 2008 at 4:06 pm

Absolutely despicable.
That teacher should be fired, but sadly, it is unlikely that anything significant will actually happen to her.

Kudos to OBC for bringing this story out from the forum, and giving it the wider audience it deserves.

Other Comments by Double Bass Atheist

10. Comment #250852 by TalkyMeat on September 20, 2008 at 4:10 pm

That is utterly disgraceful! Personally, I think the teacher in question should be forced to piss on a Eucharist in front of the class. I hope she's fired, never teaches again, and is bankrupted by legal action. One has to wonder how often shit like this happens and no media outlet picks it up.

Other Comments by TalkyMeat

11. Comment #250855 by Isherwood on September 20, 2008 at 4:24 pm

As a long time Zombie fan I'm outraged that...

Wait, that may not be the best way to start my post. You have said it all already. I agree.

Other Comments by Isherwood

12. Comment #250858 by geru on September 20, 2008 at 4:37 pm

Wow. The bastard should be prosecuted for assault, what else would you call someone physically forcing a child on his knees and ordering him by threats (I would imagine) to worship to your hallucinations? Plus the whole authority angle of the assailant being the victim's teacher.

And all this because of a t-shirt. For an art teachers, he/she sure has a narrow view of people's right to express themselves through art, even if it is only a band t-shirt.

Other Comments by geru

13. Comment #250860 by RascoHeldall on September 20, 2008 at 4:39 pm

This teacher is a child abuser and has surely forfeited his right to employment.

Other Comments by RascoHeldall

14. Comment #250864 by geru on September 20, 2008 at 4:58 pm

Although, I guess they need every teacher in America they get, so if this goes to court they should devise a more suitable punishment.

How about shipping the teacher to San Francisco to a mass of the Church of Satan, and forcing him to kneel before the altar and pray to Satan? That oughta teach him to force his beliefs on other people. :)

(Is it a 'him' or a 'her'? Somehow I would take a wild guess that it's a 'her'.)

Other Comments by geru

15. Comment #250867 by NewEnglandBob on September 20, 2008 at 5:06 pm

That public school art teacher should be stripped naked, flogged and then mounted on a cross and burned.....

Oh wait, theists do that type of thing.

.....fire that teacher.

Other Comments by NewEnglandBob

16. Comment #250868 by aleprechaunist on September 20, 2008 at 5:09 pm

Reading the text properly, it's very clearly a 'her'... (as opposed to a 'he','him', or 'his')

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17. Comment #250877 by ZT on September 20, 2008 at 5:26 pm

Just as well he wasnt into cradle of filth with a 'jesus is a cunt' T-shirt on. Would have been taken out in front of the school and burnt at the stake.

He should sue for sure, be great publicity for his band if not the whole human rights agenda.

Other Comments by ZT

18. Comment #250878 by robotaholic on September 20, 2008 at 5:30 pm

wow if that doesn't inspire ya to write a song nothing would!

oh and yeah NOONE forces ME to pray NOT EVER

Other Comments by robotaholic

19. Comment #250879 by JackM on September 20, 2008 at 5:33 pm

Why is everyone so surprised about this?

Everyone knows its usual practice for Christians to get young boys to get down on their knees and have their hands ready at their mouth ... rather convenient stance don't you think :)

Other Comments by JackM

20. Comment #250882 by Dhamma on September 20, 2008 at 5:37 pm

If I were them I'd definitely never let this pass.

When I was getting my elementary eduction many years ago, I had a teacher that taught us bible stories virtually every day. Every day we came to school we had to say shalom, and when we left school we had to say shalom shalom.

When you're that young it's hard to understand what it's all about. I remember I liked all the interesting stories she always told about various biblical characters. Mostly because I didn't have to do anything but listen!

When I was in second grade, I swore in class once (I was a real rascal), and she got really pissed and told me "When you leave third grade [and get a new teacher], you will be a Christian". I can't remember what I answered, but I won't forget how shocked I was by her statement.

Still I know it took me till I was about 18 years old to realize that what she was preaching for us every day was against the law, and most certainly not on the curriculum. Not easy for an eight year old (even if I was already an atheist) to know what's on the curriculum. That none of the parents ever reacted on it is a mystery, or maybe they truly didn't know about it.

Fact of the matter is, that now that I understand what was going on, I realize she was abusing our young minds to indoctrinate her beliefs upon us.

Sure, she never managed to convert me, so it may seem trivial, but what about all the proper education I was left out on due to her need to imprint her bullshit every day?

I wish I was able to process it today, but I was too old before I understood we had been "abused".

Other Comments by Dhamma

21. Comment #250890 by Hellene on September 20, 2008 at 6:25 pm

Hmmmnnnn........

I think the faculty of the school should have to take ethics and religious sensitivity training with a test at the end of it to receive certification. No certification, no teaching. And make it annual.

Other Comments by Hellene

22. Comment #250892 by rod-the-farmer on September 20, 2008 at 6:31 pm

One can easily imagine Ben Stein jumping on top of this right away.....oh, wait, she did not teach creationism/ID. Well, why let a little thing like the truth get in the way of a good story, right, Ben ?

Other Comments by rod-the-farmer

23. Comment #250896 by Dhamma on September 20, 2008 at 6:59 pm

Rod: In all honesty, I hardly find Ben worth mentioning even. In no way should he be treated as an authority on the matter, as he most certainly isn't one.

Unless we could use it to our advantage. If they want him to be considered an authority, we'd "win" even easier I guess!

Other Comments by Dhamma

24. Comment #250904 by Wosret on September 20, 2008 at 7:33 pm

They should string here up! Boil her in oil! Stretch her entrails out along the school with horses! Put her in that rat helmet from 1984! Show her naked pictures of her family members! Make her watch Jerry springer the opera! Give her several unnecessary surgeries!

C'mon... what she did was irresponsible and idiotic, but it is hardly worth her ruination. Abusing one's authority should be punished, as it would be for in such case. I fail to see why it is so much worse when you make someone pray to your imaginary friend. We don't have our own imaginary friend being offended like they do, so I don't think that it is all that big a deal.

She abused her authority, and should be punished, I agree with that. Though I don't think she should lose her job over a single case of this... if she is known to abuse her authority, or does it again, then she should lose her job over it. Other than that, lighten up.

Other Comments by Wosret

25. Comment #250910 by Border Collie on September 20, 2008 at 7:55 pm

Damn, let it go ... you guys should have gone to school when I was a kid in rural north Texas. Something like this was nothing. I'm not saying that the teacher shouldn't have a little get-your-act-together session with the principal, I get the issue, but a law suit?! Lose a job?! Start a law suit and guess who wins ... the lawyers ... and all it does is energize the polarities, more biting, scratching and kicking, another Jerry Springer episode ... and nothing changes.

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26. Comment #250912 by sidelined on September 20, 2008 at 8:00 pm

Mitchell says

"I fail to see why it is so much worse when you make someone pray to your imaginary friend"

How can you fail to see that forcing someone to their knees physically and demanding they pray to any deity at all is a step up the scale from mere abuse of authority into the realm of assault and battery? Authoritarian pressure is one thing physical assault is quite something else.

Other Comments by sidelined

27. Comment #250914 by Diacanu on September 20, 2008 at 8:02 pm

Mitchell/Collie-

Yeeaah, you're right, let it go.
Wait until she fucks a kid before going all kerflooey.

Other Comments by Diacanu

28. Comment #250915 by ggab7768 on September 20, 2008 at 8:07 pm

Border Collie
I would have to respectfully disagree.
If she insulted him in front of his peers for just appearing to have different beliefs than her, and presumably most of them, and forced him to be submissive before her asking jesus for forgiveness... pal, what doesn't make you sick about that.
Even if he doesn't have different beliefs, that is the way he will be viewed by the other children. Children aren't known for their kindness toward outsiders.
Do you really think that's ok.
Sure, I had worse in Kentucky in the 70's, that isn't remotely the point.

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29. Comment #250917 by Thor'Ungal on September 20, 2008 at 8:07 pm

"She abused her authority, and should be punished, I agree with that. Though I don't think she should lose her job over a single case of this... if she is known to abuse her authority, or does it again, then she should lose her job over it. Other than that, lighten up."

I agree, this was wrong and should be grounds for repremand but hardly for sacking. It might also be noted that given the visceral reaction evident here the teacher herself probably needs help.

Less making Martyrs and more naming and shaming I think.

Edit: spelling, I miss my spellchecker

Other Comments by Thor'Ungal

30. Comment #250921 by Diacanu on September 20, 2008 at 8:11 pm

*Shrug* I had teachers who were fired for less.

If my 5th grade teacher got the boot for being a slackass "big buddy", then sure as fuck a foaming Jesus nut aught to be.

Consistency, America, can we fucking have some?

Other Comments by Diacanu

31. Comment #250922 by theinquisitor on September 20, 2008 at 8:15 pm

As punishment this teacher should have to pray to Satan for forgiveness in front of her church, oh and to take the blasphemy challenge. See how she likes having to profess things she doesn't believe in.

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32. Comment #250923 by ggab7768 on September 20, 2008 at 8:17 pm

inquisitor
I like the way you think.

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33. Comment #250929 by Wosret on September 20, 2008 at 8:35 pm

26. Comment #250912 by sidelined

If that is true, that she physically forced him to then I agree, but then the issue is physical coercion, not the fact that she made him pray. Right?

In any case, is doesn't say that she physically forced him to do anything in the article.

28. Comment #250915 by ggab7768

Your objection is also to something besides the actual praying. So you can't use this as a smoke screen for that.

Other Comments by Wosret

34. Comment #250930 by Titania on September 20, 2008 at 8:38 pm

re: 25. Comment #250910 by Border Collie

Hey, what's wrong with the lawyers winning? ;)

In my public high school in Tennessee, we were forced to watch movies about being "left behind" after the "Rapture." It showed kids trying to throw themselves into the swirling waters of a dam and not being able to kill themselves.

We were forced to pray and listen to evangelical preachers during school assemblies. We were told stories about the Devil being literally in the car with one teacher and how she had to resist "temptation."

We were not taught about evolution because of the religion of the school principal and "science" teachers. I have had to teach myself. Thank Dawkins for The Selfish Gene and Climbing Mount Improbable and Carl Sagan for the Demon Haunted World and Isaac Asimov.

It took me years to rid my self of the "fear" of what would happen if I did not profess to believe and the feeling that I was "sinful", even if I did not really believe in god. These kinds of actions by teachers contaminate the minds of young people.

Most kids, including me, never told our parents because it was the accepted culture of the school and we wanted to fit in.

This art "teacher" should not be permitted to be around children. She is a child abuser. Period. If she wants to indoctrinate and control children, let her do it in her own church with the permission of the parents, but not in a public school. If I had my way, she would not even be permitted to do that.

Before she is fired, she should be charged with assault (for the physical aspects of what she did) and made to attend classes on civil rights and anger management. I do not think she should go to jail, but she should not be allowed to teach children any longer.

Other Comments by Titania

35. Comment #250932 by Titania on September 20, 2008 at 8:42 pm

Mitchell Gilks, in the US, public school teachers are not permitted to force students to pray or even to ask them to.

Other Comments by Titania

36. Comment #250934 by Wosret on September 20, 2008 at 8:45 pm

36. Comment #250932 by Titania

I realize, that is why it is an abuse of her authority. Should it not be punished like any other abuse of her authority? Why is this special? I don't understand why people think that causes harm worth her complete ruination. As long as she didn't do anything illegal, or make the kid do anything illegal...then the only thing I see that needs punishment is the abuse of authority.

Other Comments by Wosret

37. Comment #250936 by Titania on September 20, 2008 at 8:49 pm

It goes beyond abuse of authority. She was physically forcing a child to pray to her god. She humiliated him in front of his peers. She should not be permitted to teach. It is against the law and the physical part is likely a crime.

What do you think she would do or the school board would do, if another teacher forced this teacher's child to pray to Satan and forced him to get to his knees?

Edit: What if the kid had been Jewish or Hindu?

Other Comments by Titania

38. Comment #250938 by ggab7768 on September 20, 2008 at 8:52 pm

Mitchell
What exactly are you saying I'm using a smoke screen for, and what is the smoke screen?

She demeaned him in front of his peers.
That's bad
It says she "dragged" him out of the classroom.
That's bad.
She used her authority to force him to perform HER religious ritual.
That's bad.

I don't smokescreen shit, and am not known for my subtlety.
What exactly is the point you think you're making.

Other Comments by ggab7768

39. Comment #250939 by Hellene on September 20, 2008 at 8:53 pm

Titania,

I teach at a private college. Every year we have to take ethics/harassment training. This after our "higher ups" screwed up and got fired (among other things).

She needs to be fired, and the rest of the faculty/admin needs to raked over the coals so it doesn't happen again.

And my sympathies for having to watch "left behind" movies. I tried to watch one and switched it of after about 5 mins. I had to watch "A touch of evil" four times to get the bad photons out of my eyes.

Other Comments by Hellene

40. Comment #250940 by Titania on September 20, 2008 at 8:56 pm

I guess this is an argument for school uniforms: to keep children from being assaulted and humiliated by their teachers.

Other Comments by Titania

41. Comment #250941 by Titania on September 20, 2008 at 8:59 pm

Thanks, Hellene. It has been more than three decades and I got over it long ago, but this article brought back the memories and how bad all that stuff made me feel. Also it is upsetting to think what things I could have been taught but was not.

Other Comments by Titania

42. Comment #250942 by Hellene on September 20, 2008 at 9:07 pm

Titania

I just ran through (in my mind) what would happen if I had done that to a student. I don't think my feet would touch the ground on the way out. I have students from all over the world, and any kind of "Art Student" culture you can imagine. Actually I think they would "baker act" me.

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43. Comment #250943 by Titania on September 20, 2008 at 9:09 pm

Hellene,

Most likely.

I was sitting here thinking about how this woman is probably going to church tomorrow morning and will "testify" how she stood up for Jesus and now she is being persecuted.

It makes me want to throw up.

Other Comments by Titania

44. Comment #250944 by Wosret on September 20, 2008 at 9:20 pm

38. Comment #250936 by Titania

It does not say that she physically forced him to do anything. Nor does the kids parent raise that as an issue. You just continue to assert that, and seem to ignored me when I said that if it is true, then I agree, but that is another issue.

39. Comment #250938 by ggab7768

This article is about the praying, and that is what people are upset about. If you think she should be fired for physically forcing him to do something and for demeaning him in front of his peers, then that is what you should say. The making him pray seems a great deal lesser to me. I was saying that you cannot use them as a smoke screen for saying that the making him pray was worth her firing and legal action.

The article did not elucidate, or raise an objection to anything but the making him pray. I don't agree that that in itself is worth her job. There could be elements that I don't know about, and no one in the article objected to that were, but I cannot be blamed for not knowing them.

I just think that people should think about this, and decide if such a punishment fits the crime. Is this kid now damaged enough that there needs to be legal action taken, and the woman being removed from teaching ever again. I really don't think so.

Other Comments by Wosret

45. Comment #250945 by ksskidude on September 20, 2008 at 9:23 pm

I understand why most on here are angered and want to act quickly. It also angers me to know end. But suing the school would only bring more evangelicals together. We live in a very sensitive time and we atheist's need to make sure that we remain rational when confronted with lunacy and fanatics.
They want us to react angerily, and blow our lids. I think Riggs will do the right thing by contacting the ACLU and see what they say.
What this does though is remind me of how important it is for all of us to pound our keyboards, to write the letters to the editors about who we are, and how many there are of us.

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46. Comment #250949 by robotaholic on September 20, 2008 at 9:45 pm

think about it from this angle

isn't it against her own religious rules to force someone against their will to worship her god? what happened to 'free will' and respecting the child's parents wishes?

what about the fact that this country isn't her CHURCH! - not EVERYONE on this planet are members of her fucking cult! and like mentioned earlier, what if the 'child' was jewish or muslim and this ultimately violated his religious beliefs?

How can someone on this website think that a teacher forcing a student to participate in anything religious IN THE CLASS ROOM doesn't deserve to be fired!-

At least in the USA forcing a kid to pray, burning a cross on her arm, teaching creationism in science class... to me they all fall into the same category of violating a child's fundamental right to have their public education be completely seperate from religious education.

even more than that, that teacher in this article was just RUDE! - all the kid did was wear a shirt

fire, fire, fire...justice requires it- and she needs to not force anyone else to do anything else either...

Other Comments by robotaholic

47. Comment #250950 by mordacious1 on September 20, 2008 at 9:55 pm

I suppose that if the teacher were an atheist, and made the child denounce god, there wouldn't even be a need for a board meeting. No one would question the firing of the teacher.

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48. Comment #250951 by justncase80 on September 20, 2008 at 9:57 pm

I think it's hysterical how a guitarist from a death metal rock band can be this articulate and make a "teacher" seem like a complete idiot in contrast. Not that I expect him to be dumb but the teacher actually get's paid to be smart.

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49. Comment #250952 by ggab7768 on September 20, 2008 at 10:03 pm

Mitchell
I get your point, but the article is only about praying if you stop reading after the headline.
The article clearly states everything else we are talking about.
It is true that the prayer would be a soft spot for most of us here, but the "forced" prayer makes that a pretty serious problem. The "forced" prayer to "Jesus" takes it to an even deeper level.
There is an awful lot of bad in this single event, and I'm not sure how many of these insults would not have to have happened to drop the penalty to the level you feel is apropriate.
You are certainly free to disagree with me, and perhaps her superiors will too, but I think this was a terrible event for the student and the school. I would not want a woman like this "teaching" my children.

Other Comments by ggab7768

50. Comment #250953 by Titania on September 20, 2008 at 10:04 pm

Re: 45. Comment #250944 by Mitchell Gilks

It does not say that she physically forced him to do anything. Nor does the kids parent raise that as an issue.

Mitchell, you are wrong. Here is what the article says:

The art teacher allegedly insulted the student in front of his peers, dragged him out of class into the hallway and forced him to pray on his knees for forgiveness from Jesus Christ.

She dragged him out of the classroom and forced him to pray on his knees. That is a physical assault.

The father did complain about what she did:

I mean, the manner in which this woman handled the situation was extremely inappropriate, the stuff she said and what she did.

The father is apparently the one who disclosed the incident to the media or at least gave the details. The school would not be allowed to violate the student's privacy.

I have made it very clear that I think she should be fired for the physical assault, the public humiliation of a student, and for forcing him to pray to HER GOD. Forcing him to pray is a violation of his civil rights and it is not legally permissible.

Other Comments by Titania

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