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Dare we stand up for Muslim women?
by Johann Hari
Reposted from:
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-dare-we-stand-up-for-muslim-women-969631.html
While we're addicted to oil, governments will put petroleum before feminism
It's the smell I remember. Shahnaz's face – what was left of it – reeked of a day-old barbecue, left out in the rain. Her flesh was a mess of charred meat: her skin, the soft flesh of her cheeks, and the bones beneath had been burned away. Her nose was gone. Her lips hung down over her chin like melted wax. Her left eyelid couldn't close, so it watered all the time in an endless stream of tears. Shahnaz – who was 21 years old – had been punished by having acid thrown in her face. Her crime was to be a Muslim woman who wanted to be treated as equal to a man.
Shahnaz loved education – especially science and poetry. But when she got married – at the insistence of her family – her husband ordered her to stop schooling and start breeding. "You are a woman, that is your only job," he said. But she refused. She wanted to work for herself and enrich her mind. So she kept going to school, despite his beatings and ragings and threats. So one day her husband and his brothers carefully gathered up battery acid, pinned her down and hurled it into her face.
She ended up in the Acid Survivors' Foundation in Dhaka, Bangladesh, where I saw her earlier this year. In Bangladesh, acid attacks on "uppity" women are an epidemic, peaking in 2002 with more than 500 women having their faces burned off. Fewer than 10 per cent of the attackers are ever convicted because juries and judges say the women bring it on themselves by wearing "revealing" clothes, or refusing to obey men.
Munira Rahman, the director of the foundation, explains: "From the late 1980s women were increasingly getting jobs in Bangladesh. Women were suddenly more independent and they could start to turn down marriage proposals and choose for themselves. This is the backlash from men who see women as property."
It is just one tactic in a global war to keep Muslim women at heel. In Saudi Arabia, women are kept under house arrest and banned from driving or showing their faces in public. In Afghanistan, the Taliban massacre teachers who dare to educate girls. In Iran, women are stoned to death for adultery. In Somalia, women's vaginas are butchered, with the clitoris cut out and the remains crudely stitched up. These are not freak exceptions: they are often state policy.
It is here, in our open societies, that the freedom of Muslim women is slowly being born. Last week, Amina Wadud became the first ever woman to lead British Muslims in prayer. All over Europe and the US, Muslim women are pushing beyond a literal reading of the Koran and trying to turn many of its ugliest passages into misty metaphor.
Yet our support for these Muslim women fighting to be free is hobbled – both when it comes to ordinary people and when it comes to governments. Many of us feel awkward talking about the rights of Muslim women because we have overdosed on multiculturalism.
We ask nervously: isn't it just their culture that women are treated differently? Isn't it a form of cultural imperialism to condemn these practices? The only rational response is to ask: whose culture do you want to respect here? Shahnaz's culture, or her husband's? The culture of the little girls learning in a Kandahar classroom, or of the Taliban thug who bursts in and shoots their teacher? The culture of Amina Wadud, or of the misogynists protesting outside? Muslim societies are not a homogenous block – and it is racist to pretend they are.
Our governments are equally hobbled from supporting Muslim women – for a very different reason. They claim to oppose the Taliban or the Iranian mullahs because they abuse women. But when it comes to Saudi Arabia, they declare the just-as-vile regime "our close friend" and lavish cash on it. Why?
You can glimpse the answer by looking at the little-told story of the writing of Iraq's constitution. In the original draft drawn up by the Iraqi political parties in 2004, there was a guarantee of equal rights for women – alongside a clause stating that Iraqi oil belonged exclusively to the Iraqi people.
The Bush administration panicked. In the bargaining that followed, the US demanded an opening of the oil fields to foreign companies – and in return they haggled away all women's rights and allowed Shariah courts run by misogynist mullahs to operate. While we as a society are addicted to oil, our governments will always put petroleum before feminism. While we suck on the Saudi petrol pump, smearing rhetorical oestrogen on to our bombs looks like an ugly trick.
So how do we practically side with Muslim women like Shahnaz and the tens of millions like her? Any answer has to involve three steps. First: no more bogus "respect" for fundamentalism within open societies. If you literally follow an ancient Holy Text – whether it's the Koran, the Bible or the Torah – you will hold disgusting views about women and you should expect to have them criticised and mocked. By raising critical questions, we help the women inside Islam who are trying to turn the ugliest passages into metaphorical steam.
Second: kick our oil addiction. Until we do that, we will only ever see Muslim societies through the bottom of an oil barrel. Third: Once we're no longer junkies, we can pressure our governments to create a programme of real economic empowerment for Muslim women.
My friend Irshad Manji, the Muslim feminist, has called for the EU and US to fund a big programme of microcredits – small, no-interest loans – for Muslim women across the Middle East to start their own businesses or get a decent education. This would slowly give them a sliver of independence with which to reinterpret the Koran (or leave it behind). This isn't only morally right: it helps us too. How much can jihadism – an ideology committed to enslaving women, Taliban-style – spread in a society where women are free to argue and answer back?
The battle for equal rights for Muslim women is the great civil rights cause of our time. Do we want to sit it out, or do we want to stand between Shahnaz and her acid-wielding husband and say: enough?
j.hari@independent.co.uk
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-dare-we-stand-up-for-muslim-women-969631.html
While we're addicted to oil, governments will put petroleum before feminism
It's the smell I remember. Shahnaz's face – what was left of it – reeked of a day-old barbecue, left out in the rain. Her flesh was a mess of charred meat: her skin, the soft flesh of her cheeks, and the bones beneath had been burned away. Her nose was gone. Her lips hung down over her chin like melted wax. Her left eyelid couldn't close, so it watered all the time in an endless stream of tears. Shahnaz – who was 21 years old – had been punished by having acid thrown in her face. Her crime was to be a Muslim woman who wanted to be treated as equal to a man.
Shahnaz loved education – especially science and poetry. But when she got married – at the insistence of her family – her husband ordered her to stop schooling and start breeding. "You are a woman, that is your only job," he said. But she refused. She wanted to work for herself and enrich her mind. So she kept going to school, despite his beatings and ragings and threats. So one day her husband and his brothers carefully gathered up battery acid, pinned her down and hurled it into her face.
She ended up in the Acid Survivors' Foundation in Dhaka, Bangladesh, where I saw her earlier this year. In Bangladesh, acid attacks on "uppity" women are an epidemic, peaking in 2002 with more than 500 women having their faces burned off. Fewer than 10 per cent of the attackers are ever convicted because juries and judges say the women bring it on themselves by wearing "revealing" clothes, or refusing to obey men.
Munira Rahman, the director of the foundation, explains: "From the late 1980s women were increasingly getting jobs in Bangladesh. Women were suddenly more independent and they could start to turn down marriage proposals and choose for themselves. This is the backlash from men who see women as property."
It is just one tactic in a global war to keep Muslim women at heel. In Saudi Arabia, women are kept under house arrest and banned from driving or showing their faces in public. In Afghanistan, the Taliban massacre teachers who dare to educate girls. In Iran, women are stoned to death for adultery. In Somalia, women's vaginas are butchered, with the clitoris cut out and the remains crudely stitched up. These are not freak exceptions: they are often state policy.
It is here, in our open societies, that the freedom of Muslim women is slowly being born. Last week, Amina Wadud became the first ever woman to lead British Muslims in prayer. All over Europe and the US, Muslim women are pushing beyond a literal reading of the Koran and trying to turn many of its ugliest passages into misty metaphor.
Yet our support for these Muslim women fighting to be free is hobbled – both when it comes to ordinary people and when it comes to governments. Many of us feel awkward talking about the rights of Muslim women because we have overdosed on multiculturalism.
We ask nervously: isn't it just their culture that women are treated differently? Isn't it a form of cultural imperialism to condemn these practices? The only rational response is to ask: whose culture do you want to respect here? Shahnaz's culture, or her husband's? The culture of the little girls learning in a Kandahar classroom, or of the Taliban thug who bursts in and shoots their teacher? The culture of Amina Wadud, or of the misogynists protesting outside? Muslim societies are not a homogenous block – and it is racist to pretend they are.
Our governments are equally hobbled from supporting Muslim women – for a very different reason. They claim to oppose the Taliban or the Iranian mullahs because they abuse women. But when it comes to Saudi Arabia, they declare the just-as-vile regime "our close friend" and lavish cash on it. Why?
You can glimpse the answer by looking at the little-told story of the writing of Iraq's constitution. In the original draft drawn up by the Iraqi political parties in 2004, there was a guarantee of equal rights for women – alongside a clause stating that Iraqi oil belonged exclusively to the Iraqi people.
The Bush administration panicked. In the bargaining that followed, the US demanded an opening of the oil fields to foreign companies – and in return they haggled away all women's rights and allowed Shariah courts run by misogynist mullahs to operate. While we as a society are addicted to oil, our governments will always put petroleum before feminism. While we suck on the Saudi petrol pump, smearing rhetorical oestrogen on to our bombs looks like an ugly trick.
So how do we practically side with Muslim women like Shahnaz and the tens of millions like her? Any answer has to involve three steps. First: no more bogus "respect" for fundamentalism within open societies. If you literally follow an ancient Holy Text – whether it's the Koran, the Bible or the Torah – you will hold disgusting views about women and you should expect to have them criticised and mocked. By raising critical questions, we help the women inside Islam who are trying to turn the ugliest passages into metaphorical steam.
Second: kick our oil addiction. Until we do that, we will only ever see Muslim societies through the bottom of an oil barrel. Third: Once we're no longer junkies, we can pressure our governments to create a programme of real economic empowerment for Muslim women.
My friend Irshad Manji, the Muslim feminist, has called for the EU and US to fund a big programme of microcredits – small, no-interest loans – for Muslim women across the Middle East to start their own businesses or get a decent education. This would slowly give them a sliver of independence with which to reinterpret the Koran (or leave it behind). This isn't only morally right: it helps us too. How much can jihadism – an ideology committed to enslaving women, Taliban-style – spread in a society where women are free to argue and answer back?
The battle for equal rights for Muslim women is the great civil rights cause of our time. Do we want to sit it out, or do we want to stand between Shahnaz and her acid-wielding husband and say: enough?
j.hari@independent.co.uk
Comments 1 - 50 of 91 |
Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers2. Comment #269569 by Vaal on October 23, 2008 at 6:32 am
A good start would be hanging her husband and brothers, until the message gets through, loud and clear. Sorry, I have no problem with vile scum like that hanging from a yardarm.
EDIT: Where do they get this virulent psychotic misogynism from? Surely they all had mothers? Why bother getting married if you hate women so much?
Other Comments by Vaal
3. Comment #269577 by severalspeciesof on October 23, 2008 at 6:37 am
rod-the-farmer,On the surface your idea looks good, but would it really matter to the barbarian who holds the view of women that this article talks about? I mean, to that barbarian, what does he care if his country is no longer getting investments from abroad? Just wondering...
Other Comments by severalspeciesof
4. Comment #269579 by Telic on October 23, 2008 at 6:44 am
Seems like women's rights, although obviously a much welcomed end in itself, might also be the path to an islamic reformation.
(Mr. Pedantic : did the author really intend the final question mark in the article')
Other Comments by Telic
5. Comment #269583 by Szymanowski on October 23, 2008 at 6:50 am
rod-the-farmer: I guess we'd need to be in an economic position to impose such sanctions on the misogynist nations, as Hari points out (it's the bloody oil again).Telic: the final sentence of the article is a question, so it requires a question mark.
Other Comments by Szymanowski
6. Comment #269594 by Lumifish on October 23, 2008 at 7:01 am
It is just one tactic in a global war to keep Muslim women at heel.
I wish people would stop using language like this. It makes it sound like there is some overarching governmental conspiracy responsible for these continual violations of human rights, but it really is common, everyday individuals that are to blame for the perpetuation. I'm not convinced that provisions in the Iraqi constitution would have changed anything; the culture of religious bigotry is rooted in far deeper places than administrative law.
Other Comments by Lumifish
7. Comment #269597 by Dhamma on October 23, 2008 at 7:03 am
How can these monsters exist? How can evolution have been so cruel to create such fucktards?Really, I wish I could do something, but what?
The next person that claims I should "respect their belief" will get a verbal punch in the face.
Other Comments by Dhamma
8. Comment #269616 by Bonzai on October 23, 2008 at 7:28 am
My friend Irshad Manji, the Muslim feminist, has called for the EU and US to fund a big programme of microcredits – small, no-interest loans – for Muslim women across the Middle East to start their own businesses or get a decent education. This would slowly give them a sliver of independence with which to reinterpret the Koran (or leave it behind). This isn't only morally right: it helps us too. How much can jihadism – an ideology committed to enslaving women, Taliban-style – spread in a society where women are free to argue and answer back?
Well said.
However I expect the Randoids to show up and say, "Hands off MY money! The government is not only spreading the wealth domestically, it is spreading it abroad?!
"BUT THAT IS MY MONEY! MY ME AND MINE! Every dollar of wealth they spread, they achieve by spreading my ass cheeks!
"What has the world come to? Has socialism gone international too?If the Muslim women want to start a business let them do it in the free market and they can get access to capital by holding halal bake sales..."
Other Comments by Bonzai
9. Comment #269621 by al-rawandi on October 23, 2008 at 7:35 am
Bonzai,
My friend Irshad Manji, the Muslim feminist, has called for the EU and US to fund a big programme of microcredits – small, no-interest loans – for Muslim women across the Middle East to start their own businesses or get a decent education. This would slowly give them a sliver of independence with which to reinterpret the Koran (or leave it behind). This isn't only morally right: it helps us too. How much can jihadism – an ideology committed to enslaving women, Taliban-style – spread in a society where women are free to argue and answer back'
Well said.
However I expect the Randoids to show up and say, "Hands off MY money! The government is not only spreading the wealth domestically, it is spreading it abroad'! They are just spreading them like I am spreading my ass cheeks!
What has the world come to' Have socialism gone international'If the Muslim women want to start a business let them do it in the free market and they can get access to capital by having halal bake sales for fund rasing.."
EPIC FAIL.
So, how will you send the money to them, which banks will hold it, how will you prevent the men from stealing it, how will you prevent men from burning the businesses down, killing the women' Etc.... etc... The list goes on and on.
It's a noble idea, but it assume women can "argue" against the men and stay alive.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
10. Comment #269624 by Wosret on October 23, 2008 at 7:38 am
9. Comment #269621 by al-rawandiBecause any effort to emancipate Muslim women is doomed to failure, we shouldn't even try?
Do you figure that you have some special insight to the trials these women would endure if they attempted this that they themselves (the ones requesting the help) do not?
Don't you think that it is up to them whether they want to risk it in an attempt to work towards more equality for women?
I find this uncharacteristic of you.
Other Comments by Wosret
11. Comment #269632 by Gregg Townsend on October 23, 2008 at 7:43 am
Perhaps if the women are successful enough in their business they can hire bodyguards.
Hell, I don't have the answers but I definitely agree that education and empowerment of women could potentially solve much of these ills.
Other Comments by Gregg Townsend
12. Comment #269640 by al-rawandi on October 23, 2008 at 7:46 am
Mitchell,
Let's just throw money at it, that will work. Especially if it is someone else's money.
I don't think it is a bad idea, I think it isn't well thought through. I think it starts with education, for both men and women. But there is little you can do to change a society which is unwilling to change. Is it your job to tell the "benighted orientals" how to run their affairs'
I am all for helping the Muslim world reform. But I am not for flushing money down the drain overseas when it can be used at home.
Do you figure that you have some special insight to the trials these women would endure if they attempted this that they themselves (the ones requesting the help) do not'
They are requesting help' Who is'
I have insight into the history and practice of Islam. Besides more than 50% of small businesses in Saudi Arabia are owned by women NOW.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
13. Comment #269648 by Wosret on October 23, 2008 at 7:51 am
12. Comment #269640 by al-rawandiI am all for helping the Muslim world reform. But I am not for flushing money down the drain overseas when it can be used at home.
Yeah, that is my view to an extent too.
They are requesting help' Who is'
I live in a hypothetical universe, where the things people say are my jumping off points, not necessary the things how they really are. Comes with the territory of not knowing anything about anything.
I assumed that the Muslim feminists across the middle east were calling for the help.
Besides more than 50% of small businesses in Saudi Arabia are owned by women NOW.
Success!
Other Comments by Wosret
14. Comment #269657 by 82abhilash on October 23, 2008 at 7:59 am
Muslim societies are not a homogenous block – and it is racist to pretend they are.
This statement caught my eye. Even if muslim societies are not a homogeneous block it is not racist to pretend they are. It could be wrong, but it is not racist. Simply because all muslims do not belong to one race.
Other Comments by 82abhilash
15. Comment #269658 by al-rawandi on October 23, 2008 at 7:59 am
Mitchell,
I assumed that the Muslim feminists across the middle east were calling for the help
Some are. The situation is dire. But there is a leftist tendency to say "Let's give them money to do things to help themselves." Fucking tits, but a few questions:
1) Whose money
2) How
3) Where
4) Will it even work
No, no, no... fuck the critical thought start cutting checks.
Success!
Slow down they still can't drive.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
16. Comment #269660 by Sciros on October 23, 2008 at 8:00 am
Who is "e" and why would he dare to stand up for Muslim women? Other Comments by Sciros
17. Comment #269668 by Wosret on October 23, 2008 at 8:06 am
15. Comment #269658 by al-rawandiI have no money, so it can't be mine. Though you must admit that a hell of a lot of money is wasted on bullshit, why not waste some one noble causes once in awhile? Even if the odds are against its success.
I've stressed before that for some social programs, we should be willing to take a loss in my opinion.
Will it work? Well, that is a good question, and unless the answer is obvious, (which is probably wouldn't be) there would be leftist experts saying it would, and rightwing ones saying it wouldn't, because neither of them would have a clue. Or at least that is how it seems to go.
Slow down they still can't drive.
*Gasp*, that's sexist!
Other Comments by Wosret
18. Comment #269671 by DrCogSci on October 23, 2008 at 8:09 am
This seems to be the kind of situation where it's a specifically "Toxic" form of religion that causes such things. I think it'll be generations before we see a substantial change, but if nothing else, we should be enforcing our preference for the emancipation of women by force.The U.S. is not above using such *rhetoric* in its international dealings. I.e. "operation Iraqi freedom" I guess this is the one instance where I'd like to see a *more* radical approach. Weird.
Other Comments by DrCogSci
19. Comment #269674 by root2squared on October 23, 2008 at 8:13 am
You can glimpse the answer by looking at the little-told story of the writing of Iraq's constitution. In the original draft drawn up by the Iraqi political parties in 2004, there was a guarantee of equal rights for women – alongside a clause stating that Iraqi oil belonged exclusively to the Iraqi people.
The Bush administration panicked. In the bargaining that followed, the US demanded an opening of the oil fields to foreign companies – and in return they haggled away all women's rights and allowed Shariah courts run by misogynist mullahs to operate. While we as a society are addicted to oil, our governments will always put petroleum before feminism. While we suck on the Saudi petrol pump, smearing rhetorical oestrogen on to our bombs looks like an ugly trick.
I think this is the most important bit. As long as western societies need this oil, they will not be able to put any pressure on barbaric Islamic countries on any matter, not just women's rights. Maybe when we get rid of this dependence on oil, there might be a real chance of reform in the Islamic world.
Other Comments by root2squared
20. Comment #269679 by Kraes85 on October 23, 2008 at 8:17 am
This is pretty high up on the list of disgusting things you could do.But of course we should remember to be good post-modern cultural relativists about it. This is after all part of a larger tapestry of practices in Muslim culture - how men provide for their families. Really, it's just our culture that prevents us from seeing how women are differently privileged in this system. /end sarcasm
Other Comments by Kraes85
21. Comment #269680 by Gregg Townsend on October 23, 2008 at 8:18 am
17. Comment #269668 by Mitchell Gilks Slow down they still can't drive.
*Gasp*, that's sexist!
Uh, Mitchell. I think al meant they aren't allowed to drive.
:)
Other Comments by Gregg Townsend
22. Comment #269681 by The Soilworker on October 23, 2008 at 8:20 am
America should give Afghanistan our Constitution...
WE certainly aren't using it...
Other Comments by The Soilworker
23. Comment #269687 by God fearing Atheist on October 23, 2008 at 8:32 am
#269674 by root2squared
I think this is the most important bit. As long as western societies need this oil, they will not be able to put any pressure on barbaric Islamic countries on any matter, not just women's rights. Maybe when we get rid of this dependence on oil, there might be a real chance of reform in the Islamic world.
Save the humanity from religion, saving it from global warming, and women's rights are the same? Excellent!
Other Comments by God fearing Atheist
24. Comment #269693 by root2squared on October 23, 2008 at 8:40 am
Comment #269687 by God fearing Atheist
Save the humanity from religion, saving it from global warming, and women's rights are the same? Excellent!
It is a fact that even though Saudi Arabia has a terrible human rights record, the US still is an ally and trades with it. If this relationship exists, then it obbviously means the US cannot exert force on domestic matters. This wold go for any other country involved in a similar oily relationship.
Morally, I do not even think it is right to trade with such countries. However, in general, people would rather have cheap gas than worry about women's rights in Saudi Arabia. Whether we like it or not, this is the current state of affairs.
I am not sure what you're trying to say, but these things are interconnected in reality, if not in morality.
Other Comments by root2squared
25. Comment #269700 by Border Collie on October 23, 2008 at 8:49 am
Islam is truly a ship of manly men, isn't it? Other Comments by Border Collie
26. Comment #269759 by Tetsujin on October 23, 2008 at 9:45 am
I couldn't read the whole thing. Someone tell me it gets better by the end.Edit: Well that ruined my lunch.
Other Comments by Tetsujin
27. Comment #269765 by lol mahmood on October 23, 2008 at 9:51 am
A laudable article, but one niggling question bugs me: how can one separate the cultural mysogyny from the specifically islamic religious misogyny' Perhaps these men would be just as bad without islam.
Edit: Aaarghh - the curse of the missing question marks has struck!!!
Other Comments by lol mahmood
28. Comment #269770 by Border Collie on October 23, 2008 at 10:03 am
I don't know what I or any of us can do personally to stop this sort of abuse, but I do know that we, as overly tolerant, oh-so-politically-correct multiculturalists and or cultural relativists are complicit in the abuse and deaths of these women. I wonder what the lady who had her face eaten away by acid thinks about our self-righteous, hands-off attitudes. I'm going to start researching to find a way to help. I know that every time a man does this to a woman he becomes more damaged and a bigger monster, everytime a boy sees something like this he is probably irreparably damaged and a new monster is potentially created, everytime a woman or girl sees this she is irreparably damaged and possibly becomes a new monster. Sometimes we are powerless to help, but sometimes we can at least find a way to help in some small way. I'm going to find that way. Other Comments by Border Collie
29. Comment #269772 by History_Junky on October 23, 2008 at 10:04 am
Anyone else notice how the two islamic countries of south asia are shit holes while the one that has its own flavor of secularism just launched a rocket to the moon? Other Comments by History_Junky
30. Comment #269779 by beanson on October 23, 2008 at 10:18 am
It is here, in our open societies, that the freedom of Muslim women is slowly being born. Last week, Amina Wadud became the first ever woman to lead British Muslims in prayer. All over Europe and the US, Muslim women are pushing beyond a literal reading of the Koran and trying to turn many of its ugliest passages into misty metaphor.
Don't they realise that their patriachal religion is the major cause of their subjugation
Other Comments by beanson
31. Comment #269786 by al-rawandi on October 23, 2008 at 10:24 am
Read this:
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/97827
So much for Islam and human rights.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
32. Comment #269792 by JernJane on October 23, 2008 at 10:35 am
A good start would be hanging her husband and brothers, until the message gets through, loud and clear.
Sorry, I have no problem with vile scum like that hanging from a yardarm.
I couldn't have said it better myself, although I would leave out the "sorry" part.
Other Comments by JernJane
33. Comment #269794 by firstelder_d on October 23, 2008 at 10:41 am
The gist of that article seem to be: Human Rights laws go against the 'laws' of allah, since allah cannot be wrong, they are stupid. Other Comments by firstelder_d
34. Comment #269835 by DiveMedic on October 23, 2008 at 11:30 am
"A laudable article, but one niggling question bugs me: how can one separate the cultural mysogyny from the specifically islamic religious misogyny' Perhaps these men would be just as bad without islam. "Perhaps, but the texts they believe are divinely inspired, which state that their god doesn't want women to be anything aside from baby factories, certainly makes matters worse.
Other Comments by DiveMedic
35. Comment #269851 by prettygoodformonkeys on October 23, 2008 at 11:46 am
You can't separate religion from culture when the culture enshrines it in its laws. Sure, it is the same mysogyny, but now it's on steroids.
I hate to picture our own culture if we enshrined Leviticus and Deuteronomy into the legal system, because it would attract the worst of what is already there, and then force-feed it.
Other Comments by prettygoodformonkeys
36. Comment #269857 by Colwyn Abernathy on October 23, 2008 at 11:50 am
Fewer than 10 per cent of the attackers are ever convicted because juries and judges say the women bring it on themselves by wearing "revealing" clothes, or refusing to obey men.
There lies the rub. Such a defense would NEVER fly in the west. If it should ever be so, we're all doomed.
Other Comments by Colwyn Abernathy
37. Comment #269885 by lol mahmood on October 23, 2008 at 12:19 pm
31. Comment #269786 by al-rawandi on October 23, 2008 at 10:24 am
Read this:
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/97827
So much for Islam and human rights.
Al, did you read the rest of the site? There's some useful shit on there. How about this, for example:
I lose my wudoo’ when I am praying and when reading Qur’aan, by breaking wind either with a noise or with just a smell. I repeat my wudoo’ every time it breaks, but there is a Muslim sister who told me, “You do not have to repeat your wudoo’ so many times, you can pray with one wudoo’; if it breaks then you can do wudoo’ a second time, but if it breaks a third time then you do not have to repeat wudoo’.” Is this correct? What should I do in this situation?
Phew, what a dilemma!! Luckily, there is sound advice to be had:
Praise be to Allaah.
If you lose your wudoo’ when praying and you are certain because there is a sound or a smell, then you have to repeat your wudoo’ and your prayer, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “If any one of you breaks wind during prayer, let him stop and do wudoo’, then repeat the prayer.” (Narrated by Abu Dawood, 205; al-Tirnidhi, 1164, with a hasan isnaad). And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The prayer of any one of you will not be accepted if he breaks wind, until he has done wudoo’.” (Agreed upon; al-Bukhaari, 135; Muslim, 225)
But if this happens to you constantly, then you have to do wudoo’ for prayer when the time for prayer begins, then pray fard and naafil – before the time for that prayer ends – and it does not matter if you pass wind during that time, because this is the matter of necessity and the one who is continually breaking his wudoo’ is excused and does not have to do wudoo’ until the time for the next prayer begins. There is a great deal of evidence for that, including the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):
“So keep your duty to Allaah and fear Him as much as you can”
[al-Taghaabun 64:16]
I never knew flatulence was such an issue for muslims, and I'm an arab!
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38. Comment #269887 by DamnDirtyApe on October 23, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Argh, I couldn't even read the whole article. It was making me seriously fucking angry.Edit: Be nice on the whole flatulence prompt. What is this, South Park? :D
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39. Comment #269890 by lol mahmood on October 23, 2008 at 12:25 pm
I've just read on a bit and found this:With regard to reading or reciting Qur’aan, there is nothing wrong with reciting from memory even if you do not have wudoo’, except in the case of janaabah (impurity following sexual activity), in which case you should not read until you have done ghusl. But you should not touch the Mus-haf unless you are pure from both major and minor impurity, unless the problem is continual, in which case you should do wudoo’ at the time for each prayer, and read Qur’aan from the Mus-haf and recite from memory, because of the rulings on prayer referred to above. May Allaah help us all.
That last 'May Allaah help us all' cracked me up!
p.s. I'm gonna scour that site for a 'comments' page, just so I can say: "I love that wudoo that you do..."
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40. Comment #269892 by lol mahmood on October 23, 2008 at 12:27 pm
38. Comment #269887 by DamnDirtyApe on October 23, 2008 at 12:21 pmI did read the whole thing, and I feel the same; don't let my attempts at levity mislead anyone. I feel sick to my core at this depravity.
avatarArgh, I couldn't even read the whole article. It was making me seriously fucking angry.
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41. Comment #269895 by Blue Monster 65 on October 23, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Were that my daughter or my sister, there would be some serious repercussions - make no mistake about it, "cultural" identity or not, these men are craven cowards who deserve only scorn, ridicule and much, much worse.
(I'm doing my best to be polite here and not rant 'n' rave in profanity)
And the Articles of Islam is complete bullshit.
There. I said it. Fuck 'em.
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42. Comment #269896 by al-rawandi on October 23, 2008 at 12:35 pm
lol mahmood,
Flatulence is a large problem for Muslims. It is like a stigma, since in many Muslim countries "breaking wind" signifies that you have been "Loosened" (according to a Muslim friend of mine). So it is avoided.
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43. Comment #269898 by Goldy on October 23, 2008 at 12:39 pm
I read recently of a Pakistani girl burnt for wearing lipstick. Dare say there's more to the story than that...
http://uk.youtube.com/watch'v=gveiiPfetYg&feature=user
Seems women in Islam are but sex bots...
Farting in Islam, eh' As in the day Abu Hassan farted... :-)
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44. Comment #269906 by Ivan The Not So Bad on October 23, 2008 at 12:47 pm
#269563 rod-the-farmer
In the UK, the Co-operative Bank has for some years had a strong ethical policy that forbids investment in repressive regimes, companies that commit human rights abuses or do not put into effect a full range of equality policies, the fur trade, animal testing, environmentally damaging industries etc. and actively supports social enterprises, micro finance, environmental technology, heathcare industries etc.
They also donate money from their credit card use to various human rights groups as voted for by customers(in conjunction with Amnesty).
In fact, as a member, I've just this minute filled in my annual comments form on the future of the policy.
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45. Comment #269909 by Goldy on October 23, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Letters in Arab News regarding the mixing of men and women
Women and festivities
This refers to Nuha Adlan’s report, “Women’s presence at Eid Al-Fitr festivities sparks heated debate” (Oct. 16).
Abdullah Al-Suwailim is someone who follows extreme interpretations of Islamic scriptures. I do hope that his resignation is accepted. Saudi Arabia does not need such people in any government office. It has come too far for such ridiculousness. The Eid festivities were one of the best this year. For the first time, it was enlightening to see men, women and children together — expatriates and Saudis. I never thought Saudi Arabia would look so happy, united, and joyous, without impractical barriers. Such activities should be promoted not only during Eid, but round the year too. The only way a society develops financially and socially is when its men and women come together.
Nadia Aslam, Riyadh published 23 October 2008
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Women and festivities 2
I appreciate and support the stand taken by the Saudi government. There is no room for extremism in Islam. We must discourage extremist ideas.
Azhar Iqbal, Jeddah published 23 October 2008
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Women and festivities 3
Attempts to discriminate against women started during the 1930s and will continue to exist throughout our history. A few weeks ago, I was honored to have been interviewed on Eqtisadiya TV along with Abdullah Al-Suwailim. The subject matter was “Work for Women”. Although Al-Suwailim and I have disagreed on many issues, I was impressed by his high ethical conduct during the interview. Nevertheless, I believe that his resignation from his post will not stop him from criticizing festivities and events where women are involved. He will probably continue this task, as he is also imam of a mosque in Riyadh.
Abdulla Al Alami, Jeddah published 23 October 2008
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46. Comment #269920 by lol mahmood on October 23, 2008 at 1:03 pm
flatlence is a large problem for muslims
Well, bugger me. I never knew that. You'd think they'd be a bit more wary of setting light to flags in that case.
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47. Comment #269923 by dochmbi on October 23, 2008 at 1:04 pm
All I can say is: "Show me your Genitals!"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqXi8WmQ_WM
(A parody music video by comedian Jon Lajoie)
It's sad when something which is a parody here is actually a real and common attitude in the middle-east.
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48. Comment #270000 by furynick on October 23, 2008 at 2:10 pm
this sucks! this a comedyhttp://www.bizimantalya.com
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49. Comment #270031 by beelzebub on October 23, 2008 at 2:53 pm
We (In the UK at least) can't brag too much - My mother was told (in so many words) that she had to resign from the Armed forces when she got married - this was only 50 years ago. Until very recently, it was considered OK for a husband to not tell his wife what he earned! He would give her an 'allowance' that he considered enough for her to run the home - whilst he was free to do whatever he wanted. I dare say some people today still think that is fine (even some here perhaps) Other Comments by beelzebub
50. Comment #270049 by Lucas on October 23, 2008 at 3:28 pm
You bet your ass we dare. Now to the article itself.EDIT: Okay, well that pissed me off, but not half as much as the link Al provided. Damn, man.
At the risk of being accused of some sort of "blame the victim" mentality, I would like to say that, all compassion for these poor women aside, it would sure be nice if they could drop Islam altogether instead of just softening it. As a scholar of religion, I know why this won't happen, but I'm just saying it would be nice if more of them realized this. Also, I keep waiting for the article about the mangled Muslim woman who stabs her abusive husband 47 times in the face with a fucking fork; my point being that, despite my extreme sympathy, I would be even more sympathetic if some of these women stood up for themselves at some point. And I also understand why they can't. I'm just saying it would make me happier if they did.
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1. Comment #269563 by rod-the-farmer on October 23, 2008 at 6:23 am
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