1. Comment #276291 by Ascaphus on November 1, 2008 at 5:10 pm

I suppose colleges could refuse to accept Texas high school diplomas.

Matt

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2. Comment #276292 by debacles on November 1, 2008 at 5:12 pm

Everything's bigger in texas...including lies.

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3. Comment #276294 by TouchedbytheBishop on November 1, 2008 at 5:18 pm

Why on earth are there THREE creationist blockheads on a science committee?! More to the point, why on earth are there THREE creationist blockheads dictating which parts of science children are allowed to learn?!

I mean, that's like letting a nazi write the syllabus for an israeli history class....'In 1941, the great Adolf Hitler killed X amount of u little buggers! Haha! How do you like us now?!'

Absolutely ridiculous.

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4. Comment #276301 by a non e-moose on November 1, 2008 at 5:32 pm

@ascaphus

Let's hope it doesn't come to that. They should offer a foundation year to texans at least...

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5. Comment #276319 by Border Collie on November 1, 2008 at 6:09 pm

I used to be proud to be a Texan. That pride only comes in scattered moments these days. Texas is so full of situations wherein exactly the wrong people somehow arrive in positions that have undue influence. I don't know what to do about it. Write my state representative or senator? A number of years ago when the legislature was considering the concealed handgun law (allowing people to carry concealed handguns legally), I wrote a letter of protest to my representatives. I received letters in reply thanking me for my support of the proposed concealed handgun law! By God, sheeeeit, we're ignernt and proud of it!!! Git in the pickup, Mabel, and hand me a beer!!!

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6. Comment #276340 by Sittingduck on November 1, 2008 at 6:30 pm

Texas, you've got trouble...

Of course it affects much more than Texas. They are one of the largest markets for textbooks and the publishers pay close attention to what sells there.

Does anyone else get the feeling that the moronic forces of human nature are building up to a fever pitch? I think I wil lie down for awhile...

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7. Comment #276354 by black wolf on November 1, 2008 at 6:42 pm

Please tell me they've got some secret competition in some Southern states to out-dumb each other, and that they've put a huge wad of money on the outcome.
To image that they could be in this for their own conviction is just frightening.

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8. Comment #276357 by NewSkeptic on November 1, 2008 at 6:45 pm

Okay, who do we write to? The Texas Board of (Mis-?)Education?

Can Antipodeans join the mail-in, or should this (more probably) be for Texans only?

For that matter, does anyone know if Texan schools include Globes, or have they ruled that the Earth is flat (and Antipodeans should have fallen off the Earth, already ... )

(Scary - I looked at a job opportunity there a couple of years ago. I'm glad we didn't go ... )

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9. Comment #276402 by RightWingAtheist on November 1, 2008 at 7:29 pm

I've lost count of how many times I have said this...

"Oh shit, I LIVE in Texas!"

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10. Comment #276409 by Zamboro on November 1, 2008 at 7:34 pm

Bring it on, godbags.

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11. Comment #276435 by JDAM on November 1, 2008 at 8:00 pm

Y'know, it's not like this has not been going on in America since it's founding. Religion, whether Catholic or Protestanism in all its wonderous forms has been around and has been influential, at least on the surface, of most things that happen here.

My experience with "religious" Americans is that proclaiming one's faith in "Gawd" is something you just "do" in order to stay on the right side of your neighbors who are doing it for pretty much the same reasons, sort of like a national Pascal's wager going on. In my lifetime I have had numerous occasions to press some of these people on their beliefs and they all say pretty much the same thing..."Oh, you can't really take (this or that passage in the bible) literally. It really doesn't mean what it says." If the pseudo-scientific/pseudo-religious nut jobs on this committee make any decisions, Americans are going to pretty much continue on with their lives as they always have. If they believe that the Earth is 6000 years old and men walked with dinosaurs, they will continue to believe that. If they really have doubts about stuff in the bible, they will continue to have doubts, and America will go on as it always has. Politicians virtually MUST proclaim a belief in gawd, even if they have none, and my belief is that most of them do not.

If we all continue to keep doing what we are doing in as polite and friendly, but as bold a way as we can, we will continue to grow as a movement, and change minds, one at a time. Having had to make the transition while in a very Catholic family many decades ago, I can tell you first hand that doing so is NOT easy!

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12. Comment #276459 by Marku on November 1, 2008 at 8:21 pm

No offense to African Americans, but what was the American Civil War about? Why did they unite North and South? One can see how stupid the South is, but just imagine if they won and formed their own country. They'd probably be flying planes into building right at this moment. That's if they didn't inbreed themselves into total retardation, which probably would've been more likely.

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13. Comment #276484 by DiveMedic on November 1, 2008 at 8:56 pm

Uh oh.... I really hope this doesn't become Kansas on steroids.

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14. Comment #276529 by Cowcakes on November 2, 2008 at 12:30 am

This is as logical as putting Guy Fawkes in charge of a fireworks display.

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15. Comment #276530 by hobar on November 2, 2008 at 12:39 am

A few days ago I delivered pizza to a voting site and was able to meet Laura Ewing, who is running for State Board of Education District 7. I told her my mother had informed me of her pro-evolution stance and wanted to confirm that I had voted for the right person. She confirmed that while she is pro-evolution she is also Christian and believes God created the Earth. So there you are...a glimmer of hope from Harris County Texas.

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16. Comment #276531 by jdaudett on November 2, 2008 at 12:39 am

@9: I was under the impression that Texans DO care more about high school football than everything else in high school. Makes me glad I didn't grow up there.

@14: I betcha it will become Kansas on steroids. If there is a war on evolution in this country, Texas just became their central front. I hope that the textbook companies realize that Texas just decided to go off the deep end and start looking at California or New York as the way of setting the standard texts.

I think that science textbooks should have to submit themselves to a peer review standard. Maybe that would solve the problem.

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17. Comment #276534 by Wosret on November 2, 2008 at 1:00 am

"Why won't you die?" - Vegeta.

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18. Comment #276536 by agn on November 2, 2008 at 1:30 am

"Ronald K. Wetherington, professor of anthropology at Southern Methodist University and director of the Center for Teaching Excellence"

Why should an anthropologist be on this committe??

Where are the physicists, for example?

Surely, there exist in in Texs numerous scientists whio are better qualified than Mr. Wetherington to review the curriculum standards.

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19. Comment #276538 by rod-the-farmer on November 2, 2008 at 1:50 am

Maybe someone with local knowledge can explain to us here just how these people GOT their positions. Where they appointed, or elected ? The article says "named". Does that imply Dr. Leroy was the sole individual responsible, or is there some sort of committee that chooses from a list of potential candidates ? As for the anthropologist, that would seem to be a much better candidate than Leroy the Dentist.

Anyone reading who has any connection at all with their local university could write to Texas newspapers, saying that based on the apparent anti-evolution philosophy of the "science curriculum standards" group, you will be advising your university/college to require remedial science courses for a year before admitting first-year students from Texas high schools.

Whether or not your university actually DOES this, is immaterial. The threat may be enough.

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20. Comment #276563 by friendlypig on November 2, 2008 at 3:03 am

Comment #276357 by NewSkeptic on November 1,


For that matter, does anyone know if Texan schools include Globes, or have they ruled that the Earth is flat (and Antipodeans should have fallen off the Earth, already ... )

What on Earth do You mean?

Of course the Earth is flat!

It's was the Texans fell off and banged their heads, not the Antipodeans.

The intelligent ones were at the back and had some soft IQs to land on

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21. Comment #276617 by dochmbi on November 2, 2008 at 4:07 am

Looks like they'll be playing some 3v3 Arena PvP.
Pew Pew lazers.

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22. Comment #276619 by stephenray on November 2, 2008 at 4:38 am

The scientists should resign. They're obviously there to provide a veneer of credibility. The simple fact that the committe has put three creationists on the panel shows that understanding of how to teach science is as fundamental and deep as Sarah Palin's understanding of the ethics of government.

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23. Comment #276622 by bluebird on November 2, 2008 at 5:21 am

All's quiet on the Kansas front?? I've been preoccupied with Missouri issues, so didn't realize storm clouds are brewing again over our neighbor:
http://sensuouscurmudgeon.wordpress.com/2008/10/19/kansas-creationism-kathy-martin-update-19-oct/

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24. Comment #276638 by Shaka on November 2, 2008 at 8:03 am

I won't be surprised when parents start homeschooling their kids because they don't want their children to be taught a lie like ID or even Creationtism.

Poor Texas.

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25. Comment #276641 by AFTER on November 2, 2008 at 8:21 am

Part of me just doesn't get the States. Why is this even allowed? Regardless of personal beliefs, can't people see that there is an agenda here? Education is not about advancing a pro-communist agenda or a pro-liberal agenda or a pro-ID agenda. It's about advancing knowledge. This is not even thinly veiled stuff.

I feel sorry for young Americans, especially those who live in Palinland.

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26. Comment #276643 by black wolf on November 2, 2008 at 8:28 am

rod-the-farmer:
Maybe someone with local knowledge can explain to us here just how these people GOT their positions. Where they appointed, or elected ? The article says "named". Does that imply Dr. Leroy was the sole individual responsible, or is there some sort of committee that chooses from a list of potential candidates ? As for the anthropologist, that would seem to be a much better candidate than Leroy the Dentist.

This should answer your question:

§161.1001. Establishment of Advisory Committees.
The commissioner of education has authority to establish advisory committees and to appoint the
membership of advisory committees. The commissioner may establish an advisory committee based on state
or federal law or State Board of Education (SBOE) recommendation or as the commissioner deems
expedient.
Source: The provisions of this §161.1001 adopted to be effective April 20, 1994, 19 TexReg 2384; amended to be
effective February 19, 1997, 22 TexReg 1636.

The Commisioner is Robert Scott.
http://www.tea.state.tx.us/sboe/commissioner.html
"While many children experience challenges, Scott knows that with high academic standards every child can be given the tools to succeed both in school and life beyond school."

http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2007/10/18/robert-scott-named-to-head-texas-education-agency/
"Scott is not thought to be that deep into right-wing political ideology."

AFTER,
Why is this even allowed? Regardless of personal beliefs, can't people see that there is an agenda here? Education is not about advancing a pro-communist agenda or a pro-liberal agenda or a pro-ID agenda.

When you have creationsts/IDeologues on the advisory boards, who got there from locally elected school boards, you'll get the same on committees. It doesn't matter if their ideology has been proven not to be science but religion. If they crawl up the policy ladders, they come to be in charge sooner or later. The current Commissioner in charge is a lawyer, which is why I suspect he has no qualification to differentiate between the politicized ID agenda and science. ID is notoriously good at convincing lawyers and ignorant voters (judges not so much, yet).

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27. Comment #276653 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on November 2, 2008 at 9:31 am

I'm aware that many here don't like him because he's a theist, but I sat in a talk Ken Miller gave on Friday on this topic... he pointed out that despite what we seem to think, this is not limited to the south. He also presented a number of resources for HS teachers to deal with the inevitable questions, a guide to refute the set of 10 questions from Answers in Genesis, and agreed with Myers that this is NOT going to go away. I had the privilege of an individual discussion with him afterward, and while his cognitive dissonance is GLARING (he includes his religion as an unnecessary add-on to acceptance in evolution, which he fully conceded violates logical thought. "That's why it's called faith", was the response), he also stated the intent to continue combating creationism in science courses, to the point of offering to come speak in any school district that is being pressured to include it in their classes. While many of us would prefer an atheist, at least he's trying to help. Texans, email the man.

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28. Comment #276756 by amalthea on November 2, 2008 at 2:46 pm

I have difficulty believing that, out of pure dogma, the state of Texas will allow 6 people to choose what kind of science will be taught in their schools. Bearing in mind that their decisions have the capacity to intellectually neuter their schoolchildren, who will then become the laughing-stock of the rest of the USA, not to mention the world. Will US universities even consider students from Texas, knowing that they are taught ID and creationism?

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29. Comment #276867 by Ascaphus on November 2, 2008 at 4:31 pm

...I have difficulty believing that, out of pure dogma, the state of Texas will allow 6 people to choose...

I don't understand the difficulty. At this point, they wouldn't even be setting a precedent. Religiously indoctrinated people have proven themselves capable of sacrificing themselves (literally and figuratively), their children, and any number of people both believers and otherwise. Why is this a stretch?

Matt

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30. Comment #276921 by wouldbesakota on November 2, 2008 at 7:12 pm

This is just plain scary. My state, California may be 47th in education, but we're blue enough to teach evolution with no mention whatsoever about creationism. Nonethelesss I just checked my bio text book and found that there's only half a unit specifically on evolution.

Ah, well...

But I do find it frightening that a great deal of textbooks are published by this state.

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31. Comment #276925 by chewedbarber on November 2, 2008 at 7:20 pm

Write my state representative or senator?

Ha, ha, yeah, that is going to do so much. Texas politicians routinely win elections by calling opponents godless. hehehe, best of luck!

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32. Comment #276983 by Christopher Davis on November 2, 2008 at 11:00 pm

Damn people. I've only read the first twenty comments and already I've come across crass generalizations regarding concealed weapons permits, college football, anthropologists, and people from the south in general.

None of these attributes make you de-facto stupid and/or backwards. Furthermore they have nothing to do with the issue discussed in the article...that Texas creationist politicians are trying to present the image of a fair and balanced school board while knowing they have the winning vote (McLeroy) in their pocket.

I grew up in Alabama, I'm authorized to carry a concealed weapon, my degree is in anthropolgy and my favorite sport is college football, and I think this shit is as ridiculous as ya'll do.

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33. Comment #276987 by Laurie Fraser on November 2, 2008 at 11:18 pm

I'm simply amazed that the U.S. has such a retarded system of deciding what gets taught in schools. Six people? Phew! and they have the audacity to criticise communism as a "centralised" system.

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34. Comment #277172 by DoobyTheCat on November 3, 2008 at 7:03 am

It's days like this that make me hate that I live in Texas. :(

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35. Comment #277173 by MedMonkey on November 3, 2008 at 7:06 am

Firstly, as a medical student in Florida and a lifelong resident of the south, I must take refuge from many of the generalizations made about it. Along with the other non sequitur conclusions about intelligence or rationality being inversely related to certain likes/dislikes, you cannot damn all of Texas for this creationist heavy science committee. This is more indicative of a defunct system of appointments which requries scrutiny.

A colleague of mine who was previously a high school biology teacher in Alabama pointed out that much of what is taught is taught because the information shows up on the standardized tests. This is why the biology books only have one paragraph on evolution ... there's only ONE question on evolution in these tests!! Rather than colleges refusing to accept Texas high school diplomas, maybe they should take a closer look into the content of standardized tests they're utilizing to rank applicants.

All the best,
Dave

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36. Comment #277178 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on November 3, 2008 at 7:16 am

Christopher Davis

Damn people. I've only read the first twenty comments and already I've come across crass generalizations regarding concealed weapons permits, college football, anthropologists, and people from the south in general.

None of these attributes make you de-facto stupid and/or backwards.

Fair... they are certainly gross generalisations... You grew up in Alabama, care to inform us how MOST of the population of your state would approach this' I'd agree that this phenomenon is not limited to the South.. the Dover Trial was in PA, and there have been state school board elections that hinged on this issue in Ohio. Never the less, the region of the country in which you live has 1) a higher percentage of fundamentalist Christians than the rest, 2) a record of ignorance and intolerance that runs from Jim Crow (which everyone contributed to, admittedly) through, oh, about a month ago , and 3)a large un/undereducated rural population (if your counter to this statement is going to involve post-secondary educators, I'd leave it off... they didn't come from that region for the most part). I've lived in NY and NC for 17 years and 12 years respectively, and while the former is not without its fundie wackaloons, there are more of them, and more vocal ones, in the South. Southerners as a whole may not be less intelligent, but you have a larger percentage of those charicatures of humanity you like to call rednecks. The accent isn't helping your cause much either (yes, I'm aware that it has nothing to do with intelligence, but wow does it sound like it does... perceptions sway on such things).
To address the actual issue of the article, not only are the Texas Creationist politicians pretending this is balanced, but like everywhere else, people in Texas VOTED on this. So, the citizens chose whatever it is they're about to end up with, and my sympathy goes more to neighbouring states that end up having to adopt whatever POS texts that are published for Texas.

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37. Comment #277198 by nervouswreck on November 3, 2008 at 8:16 am

http://www.tfn.org

The Texas State Board of Education will hold its first public hearing on science curriculum standards for all Texas public schools in Austin on November 19, 2008 at 9:00 a.m.

Creationists on the state board have already made it clear that weakening instruction on evolution is a priority. Now is the time to tell the state board that you, along with thousands of other Texans, support a science curriculum that does not undermine instruction on evolution, a concept that is critical to the understanding of all biological sciences.

The Texas Freedom Network will prepare you for the public hearing, giving you all the information you need to deliver clear, concise testimony supporting sound science. If you don't want to testify, but would still like to attend the hearing, let us know that as well! It is important to have as many people who support science at the hearings as possible.

http://www.tfn.org/site/PageServer?pagename=TFN_Alert_TEA_Comments_Open

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38. Comment #277224 by fish55 on November 3, 2008 at 8:57 am

The Pastafarian view is conspicuously absent on this panel.

"I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence."
(excerpt from letter to Kansas School Board)

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39. Comment #277241 by MaxD on November 3, 2008 at 9:17 am

I think the real thing we need to do as a community of rational thinkers is get people of reason on our school boards, and fight against such lunacy earlier. One thing these first century thinkers are good at is organizing and working at the lower levels and working their way up.

We probably ought pay more attention to this kind of thing more closely, and not expect, as we rationalist tend to, that people will behave as reasonably as we tend to on matters of education.
So locally dressing these people down might be good so we are not caught off guard as often by this sort ofthing.

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40. Comment #277308 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on November 3, 2008 at 11:20 am

MaxD> well said... If that had been mentioned earlier in the season, it would have been worthwhile for one of us to research state school board candidates and post the results here... Perhaps next election' (question)

Other Comments by InfuriatedSciTeacher

41. Comment #277440 by justaperson on November 3, 2008 at 6:39 pm

RE: Comment #276294 by TouchedbytheBishop on November 1, 2008 at 5:18 pm

Why on earth are there THREE creationist blockheads on a science committee?! More to the point, why on earth are there THREE creationist blockheads dictating which parts of science children are allowed to learn?!

Why are there ANY creationist blockheads on a science committee?

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42. Comment #277450 by Sittingduck on November 3, 2008 at 8:56 pm

Christopher Davis

I grew up in Alabama, I'm authorized to carry a concealed weapon, my degree is in anthropolgy and my favorite sport is college football, and I think this shit is as ridiculous as ya'll do.

Apparently anthropology is more dangerous than it appears at first glance :)

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43. Comment #277485 by Christopher Davis on November 3, 2008 at 10:19 pm

InfuriatedScienceTeacher,

The point of my post wasn't to defend Alabama or the south...my point was conflation.

As you point out, people in the south have a poor understanding of the science of evolution...hell, of science in general, although that may not make them as unique as some people think. As you admit, science education is in trouble all over the U.S.

But what people here have done is conflate unrelated issues such as gun ownership and following college football.

Let's look at how this reads...Texas State School Board is comprised of over 50% creationists, Texans are southerners, therefore southerners are stupid. Furthermore, lots of them like guns, therefore guns are stupid, and they enjoy college football, which as everbody knows is stupid. Also, they talk funny...which I hasten to add doesn't necessarily make them stupid, it just makes them sound stupid (i.e. like someone born in the south who has a gun and watches college football).

And some of us here wonder how the Republicans can get away with protraying people who are educated as elitists.

You toss out the derogatory term "Redneck", but what makes them rednecks' The guns, the football, the beer, a prediliction for full size Ford trucks and NASCAR' What if they all started drinking wine and eating cheese' Going to plays and grooming Bonsai trees' Would they be any smarter'

The problem is that these people are uneducated...poking their social habits and the way they speak is elitist, it would be called racist if the majority of them weren't white.

Also, I'm pretty sure the Texas State School Board is selected, not elected.

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44. Comment #279289 by Wolvan on November 5, 2008 at 9:29 pm

As a Texas resident I'm becoming more and more affraid that I will have to home school my children for religious reasons. Namely to keep them safe from religion.

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