President Obama: Bad News For the New Atheists and Other Fundamentalists"I think it's time that we join a serious debate about how to reconcile faith with our modern, pluralistic democracy.
"And if we're going to do that then we first need to understand that Americans are a religious people... This religious tendency is not simply the result of successful marketing by skilled preachers... I speak with some experience on this matter.
"You need to come to church in the first place precisely because you are first of this world, not apart from it. You need to embrace Christ precisely because you have sins to wash away -- because you are human and need an ally in this difficult journey.
"It was because of these newfound understandings that I was finally able to walk down the aisle of Trinity United Church of Christ on 95th Street in the Southside of Chicago one day and affirm my Christian faith. It came about as a choice, and not an epiphany. I didn't fall out in church. The questions I had didn't magically disappear. But kneeling beneath that cross on the South Side, I felt that I heard God's spirit beckoning me. I submitted myself to His will, and dedicated myself to discovering His truth.
"That's a path that has been shared by millions upon millions of Americans -- evangelicals, Catholics, Protestants, Jews and Muslims alike; some since birth, others at certain turning points in their lives. It is not something they set apart from the rest of their beliefs and values. In fact, it is often what drives their beliefs and their values."
2. Comment #278951 by Kiste on November 5, 2008 at 12:47 pm
If you bring up Dietrich Bonhoeffer, at least learn to spell his name correctly. Bonhoeffer was only remarkable for being one of the few protestant clergymen who were not rabid Nazis and that hardly makes him a "martyr". He had nothing to do with the assassination attempt on Hitler.3. Comment #278953 by mismos00 on November 5, 2008 at 12:48 pm
4. Comment #278959 by dhudson0001 on November 5, 2008 at 12:53 pm
5. Comment #278962 by blueollie on November 5, 2008 at 12:54 pm
This TGD reading atheist was thrilled to have BHO get elected.6. Comment #278973 by Arthur86 on November 5, 2008 at 1:02 pm
I have a problem with the term reasoned faith. In the first instance, it is oxymoronic. A belief for the sake of belief is illogical, not reasoned. Reasoned beliefs can be deduced through a series of logical steps. Faith skips these steps and assumes the conclusion. However, I have reason to believe the author has a different definition for the term reasoned faith. He might mean faith that doesn't lead one to act in fanatically violent ways (i.e. Christians murdering doctors who perform abortions). But the Christian who murders doctors who perform abortions carries the same faith as most Christians who don't do such atrocities in the name of their faith - which points to the ultimate unreason of the faith itself. The faith itself is wrong, unreasonable, and illogical - despite the actions it causes one to make.7. Comment #278974 by ShavenYak on November 5, 2008 at 1:03 pm
"As President elect Obama has pointed out, a world of all math but no poetry is not fit for human habitation. If everything feels flat and dull, stripped of mystery and meaning who will bother to do the science? Why bother, if all we're doing is serving those selfish genes for another round of meaningless propagation?"8. Comment #278978 by Tyler Durden on November 5, 2008 at 1:05 pm
9. Comment #278981 by Ubiquitous Che on November 5, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Funny how you can always tell when someone hasn't actually read the material they claim to be criticising, ain't it?10. Comment #278991 by F_A_F on November 5, 2008 at 1:11 pm
There seems to be a general opinion that Atheists subscribe to a particular dogma on most areas of thought.....we would do well to dispel this opinion.11. Comment #278996 by Eshto on November 5, 2008 at 1:13 pm
12. Comment #278998 by squinky on November 5, 2008 at 1:14 pm
13. Comment #278999 by PeterMcKellar on November 5, 2008 at 1:14 pm
This author is so typical of religious apologists and theists in general. A few quite unjustified smears are included in this article. I don't speak for other atheists and nor do they speak for me - and the author certainly does not, nor does his description fit me.14. Comment #279003 by Elles on November 5, 2008 at 1:16 pm
15. Comment #279010 by Steve Zara on November 5, 2008 at 1:19 pm
16. Comment #279015 by Goldy on November 5, 2008 at 1:22 pm
17. Comment #279019 by burkbraun on November 5, 2008 at 1:29 pm
So, if it is all allegorical, then that means that God does not exist, right? It is just a whacky language we use for comforting each other? I get it!18. Comment #279027 by lol mahmood on November 5, 2008 at 1:36 pm
19. Comment #279030 by Mike O'Risal on November 5, 2008 at 1:37 pm
20. Comment #279034 by Godless Sodomite on November 5, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Reasonable faith? Obama suffers from the cognitive dissonance of not supporting full marriage rights for me and my partner based on what his faith tells him his imaginary friend wants. As an expert on the Constitution and the offspring of interracial parents who wouldn't have been able to marry had their civil rights been left to popular vote, he should know better. His faith is no more reasonable than anyone else's. That he's not a totally unreasonable ignoramus like Dubya was (is) is beside the point. In matters of faith, when confronted with reality he's shown that he is quite unreasonable indeed. His religion is just as silly and unjustified as any.21. Comment #279036 by AdrianB on November 5, 2008 at 1:43 pm
14. Comment #279003 by Elles on November 5, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Two things, first about the title.
Perhaps somebody someday somewhere will bother explaining to me what it takes to be a "Fundamentalist Atheist."
My understanding is that the closest thing that comes to being a shared "doctrine" for Atheists is that there is no God, but I know of no Atheists who say that there is definitely with 100% certainty no God (I assume they exist but the vast majority don't seem to have 100% certainty in not-God).
22. Comment #279037 by Steve Zara on November 5, 2008 at 1:43 pm
I will say that I have 100% certainty that there isn't a God or gods because I have yet to see anything that looks even remotely for evidence that such beings exist.
23. Comment #279040 by Enlightenme.. on November 5, 2008 at 1:45 pm
24. Comment #279042 by Logicel on November 5, 2008 at 1:46 pm
25. Comment #279044 by Mr0Joshua on November 5, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Does this guy actually make a living from writing? Talk about opaque.Forget the idea that perhaps one may hold two contradictory ideas at the same time, say that none of the stories in the Bible happened as written, but that they are true in more subtle ways than mere historicity, or that we're nothing but jumped up chimps, but are also connecting to a deeper reality when we say, "the Lord is my shepherd" and hope that he is.
26. Comment #279047 by Enlightenme.. on November 5, 2008 at 1:50 pm
27. Comment #279050 by dochmbi on November 5, 2008 at 1:51 pm
28. Comment #279051 by Amy_Sydney on November 5, 2008 at 1:51 pm
The New Atheists don't seem to "get" grown up allegory any more than the fundamentalists of the Religious Right do, let alone literary imagination.
29. Comment #279055 by lol mahmood on November 5, 2008 at 1:52 pm
30. Comment #279058 by Steve Zara on November 5, 2008 at 1:54 pm
31. Comment #279069 by Enlightenme.. on November 5, 2008 at 2:04 pm
32. Comment #279085 by Border Collie on November 5, 2008 at 2:18 pm
33. Comment #279086 by Ex~ on November 5, 2008 at 2:21 pm
34. Comment #279093 by Enlightenme.. on November 5, 2008 at 2:29 pm
35. Comment #279095 by lol mahmood on November 5, 2008 at 2:30 pm
36. Comment #279097 by Red Foot Okie on November 5, 2008 at 2:33 pm
37. Comment #279101 by jimbob on November 5, 2008 at 2:36 pm
This without-superstition-life-has-no-meaning opinion is just that--an opinion!38. Comment #279102 by prolibertas on November 5, 2008 at 2:37 pm
'If everything feels flat and dull, stripped of mystery and meaning, who will bother to do the science?'39. Comment #279106 by Donald on November 5, 2008 at 2:41 pm
I am very pleased Obama won. He was the best candidate from the point of view of atheists and western civilisation (IMO). (The first time in my lifetime the American people have the elected the candidate *I* would have voted for.)40. Comment #279108 by NormanDoering on November 5, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Frank Schaeffer has apparently never heard of PZ Myers' "The Courtier's Reply."41. Comment #279109 by Enlightenme.. on November 5, 2008 at 2:43 pm
42. Comment #279114 by Red Foot Okie on November 5, 2008 at 2:52 pm
43. Comment #279116 by shaunfletcher on November 5, 2008 at 2:55 pm
44. Comment #279118 by Nova on November 5, 2008 at 2:58 pm
It's very likely Obama is secretly an atheist. His mother was an atheist, his father was a Muslim who became an atheist, he doesn't seem to have anywhere to have picked religion up from. He doesn't seem to practice it or bring it up anymore than he needs to and he's a member of one of the most liberal churches - perfect for an atheist feigning religion.45. Comment #279120 by Ai Deng on November 5, 2008 at 3:00 pm
46. Comment #279124 by Donald on November 5, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Hey Donald, I've often wondered what an athiest president would end his or her speeches with.
The whole "God bless you and god bless America" thing is pretty powerful, you have to admit.
"Live long, and may America prosper"... it just doesn't have the same pull...
47. Comment #279126 by prettygoodformonkeys on November 5, 2008 at 3:03 pm
48. Comment #279127 by Robin Burgess on November 5, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Of course Obama's bad for New Atheists. They don't exist.49. Comment #279133 by Flo on November 5, 2008 at 3:16 pm
50. Comment #279135 by lol mahmood on November 5, 2008 at 3:16 pm
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1. Comment #278950 by Eshto on November 5, 2008 at 12:47 pm
How is that bad news?
EDIT: Oh that's right, we're supposedly as bad as the fundamentalists and want everyone to be forced to think like us. I must've forgot.
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