Friday, November 7, 2008 | Reason : Science of Religion | print version

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Anti-religion agenda among social media users

by LA Times

Reposted from:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2008/11/atheism-digg-re.html

Anti-religion agenda among social media users

Andrew Barker embodies the average Digg user: a white male in his 20s, tech savvy, with a sense of humor that often pushes boundaries into the taboo. You can find him browsing the social news website a couple times a day, but you won't see him at a church, synagogue or mosque.

The 27-year-old from Mishawaka, Ind., abandoned organized religion long ago and now describes himself as agnostic. For him, time spent in the house of Digg is not unlike a Sunday church gathering. Groups of like-minded individuals share gossip and stories, and they discuss such topics as politics, sports and, yes, even religion.

But you won't find many links to Bible studies on the front page of Digg -- unless it's about the absurdity of taking Scripture literally. A 2-year-old survey of Digg users showed a significant concentration of atheists and agnostics. Because Digg's content is submitted and voted on by the users, the stories promoted to the website's homepage reflect the audience.

Although Barker reads Digg regularly, he doesn't submit links very often. But he had a big hit with a picture he posted of a child's coloring book showing Jesus riding a dinosaur. "I found it, and thought, 'God, that's such a hilarious image,'" Barker said. "Digg takes everything religious so lightheartedly."

Poking fun at evangelical Christians, Catholics, creationists, the image of Jesus Christ and, well, anything remotely associated with religion is ...

... commonplace on the website. An image, titled "The Incredible Jesuc Car: I'm Afraid Of Americans," was voted to the Digg homepage a few days ago. The photo shows a Toyota, with the license plate "Jesuc," blanketed in bumper stickers promoting Christianity, the Republican presidential ticket and anti-gay marriage propositions.

Another image, a clipping from an Alaskan newspaper's Letters to the Editor section that's criticizing atheists, hit the Digg homepage the same day as "Jesuc Car." (A previous version of this post said the newspaper was from Arkansas.) It's already in the top 10 most popular stories of the week -- an impressive feat when considering the other nine stories revolve around the presidential election.

And Tuesday night, a popular item on Digg was news that Elizabeth Dole, whom Digg users criticized for calling her opponent "godless," was defeated by Kay Hagan for the North Carolina Senate seat. Users celebrated in the story's comments section, and one user wrote, "Score one for the Godless Americans!"

Digg isn't exactly religion-friendly, so it naturally doesn't attract a very spiritual crowd. "If you were into religion and you went to that site, and you thought that you weren't connecting with anyone, then you wouldn't spend a lot of time there," said Diane Winston, professor of media and religion at the University of Southern California.

Zak Madden, a 16-year-old atheist from Battle Ground, Wash., submitted a picture to Digg last week of a Blu-Ray box for a film called "Jesus Christ: Vampire Hunter." It got more than 1,000 votes, called "diggs," from users. "Most Diggers aren't very religious and love comedy so it seemed natural that they would enjoy this," Madden said in an e-mail.

Madden figures that more than half of the site's users don't actively practice religion, but says that number could be skewed by a vocal minority. "There may be more religious diggers than I am guessing, but those who are religious usually aren't very open about it," he wrote.

Madden says he found the "Vampire Hunter" graphic on a similar website called Reddit. The audience is much the same, and content critical of religion regularly makes it to Reddit's homepage as well.

YouTube also has its atheist niche. A search for "atheist" yields 124,000 results, and several of those videos have been watched hundreds of thousands of times. Granted, a search for "Christianity" returns 862,000, but many of those contain content critical of the religion.

Micki Krimmel, a.k.a. Mickipedia, a popular Twitter personality, says she attributes a part of her Internet fame to her YouTube videos about atheism. "I made a series of videos that got really popular on YouTube and that generated recognition [among] a different group -- apparently there is a big atheist community on YouTube," she said in an instant message conversation.

Social networks also exist for atheists, including Atheist Passions and Richard Dawkins.net.

Although atheist material and content critical of religion might have a large following on these mainstream websites, just as many websites exist on the Web for religious discussions, said Winston, the USC professor. ShoutLife is one Christian social network with about 140,000 registered users. Christian.com, Xianz, Your Christian Space and Holypal are a few popular alternatives. There's one for every major religion -- and atheism.

"Just as religious people want to convert people to their perspective, atheist people want to convert people to their point of view," Winston said. "The irony here is that atheism is a form of religion. You're still in something."

The Internet isn't killing religion. In fact, Winston says more Americans attend church today -- about 60% -- than in the past. "People have a mistaken notion of history that people used to be more religious," she said.

The Web merely acts as the megaphone for any message, whether that be for or against religion, to help it reach the masses. "The Internet has democratized media to a form almost unprecedented," Winston said. "So, of course you're going to see things that you never saw before -- like Jesus riding on a dinosaur."

-- Mark Milian

Posted: Friday, November 7, 2008 | Permalink

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1. Comment #280267 by rokeisland on November 7, 2008 at 9:21 am

"The irony here is that atheism is a form of religion. You're still in something"

I guess people still don't get it.

Other Comments by rokeisland

2. Comment #280273 by toddaa on November 7, 2008 at 9:28 am

Diane Winston, professor of media and religion at the University of Southern California.

"Just as religious people want to convert people to their perspective, atheist people want to convert people to their point of view," Winston said. "The irony here is that atheism is a form of religion. You're still in something."

The Internet isn't killing religion. In fact, Winston says more Americans attend church today -- about 60% -- than in the past. "People have a mistaken notion of history that people used to be more religious," she said.

More evidence that any idiot can be an expert in religion.

Other Comments by toddaa

3. Comment #280281 by JemyM on November 7, 2008 at 9:36 am

With Internet, the best way to convince the masses is to make sense.

Other Comments by JemyM

4. Comment #280284 by acidhouser on November 7, 2008 at 9:40 am

"Just as religious people want to convert people to their perspective, atheist people want to convert people to their point of view," Winston said. "The irony here is that atheism is a form of religion. You're still in something."
=FAIL

Oh noes, scary atheists on teh intrawebs.
No shit, Sherlock.

Other Comments by acidhouser

5. Comment #280287 by Tyler Durden on November 7, 2008 at 9:41 am

"The irony here is that atheism is a form of religion. You're still in something." - Diane Winston, professor of media and religion at the University of Southern California.

Epic fail. Go to the back of the class.

If atheism (def: -noun "disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings") is a religion, perhaps Ms. Winston could name one of its tenets. Or what holy book atheists subscribe to.

Am I also religious if I'm in a band, just because I'm "in something"?

Atheism is to religion as bald is to hair colour.

Other Comments by Tyler Durden

6. Comment #280288 by Border Collie on November 7, 2008 at 9:44 am

'atheist people want to convert people to their point of view'

Since when?

Other Comments by Border Collie

7. Comment #280290 by hungarianelephant on November 7, 2008 at 9:49 am

If atheism (def: -noun "disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings") is a religion, perhaps Ms. Winston could name one of it's tenets. Or what holy book atheists subscribe to.

<channel_david_robertson>
1. Materialism
2. Moral relativism
3. Some other stuff I don't want to share with you, but I definitely honestly have it, and you can trust me because I'd never write a dodgy cheque
4. Er ...
5. ... that's it.

And to the second question, Darwin's Origin of Species. Oh yes you do. (Er, we don't, and in fact disagree with Darwin on a number of points.) Oh yes you do, also Stalin was an atheist (continue ad nauseam)</channel_david_robertson>

Other Comments by hungarianelephant

8. Comment #280292 by Tyler Durden on November 7, 2008 at 9:58 am

I feel an email needs to be send to Ms. Winston.

Anyone have the latest numbers for church attendance in America? (I can't access certain sites here in work.)

Thanks.

Other Comments by Tyler Durden

9. Comment #280293 by movingshadow on November 7, 2008 at 10:00 am

" 6. Comment #280288 by Border Collie on November 7, 2008 at 9:44 am
'atheist people want to convert people to their point of view'

Since when? "

Uh... so, what? the god delusion was meant simply to be read by other atheist?

This article is absurd but come on, dude

Other Comments by movingshadow

10. Comment #280294 by Demotruk on November 7, 2008 at 10:01 am

Dunno about America, but here in Europe less and less people are religious. However, the people who remain religious are increasingly fundamentalist, it seems.

Other Comments by Demotruk

11. Comment #280296 by notreallyalice on November 7, 2008 at 10:03 am

Since when was a bunch of atheists hanging around together the same as promoting "anti-religion agenda"' Non-theist does not equal anti-theist.

Other Comments by notreallyalice

12. Comment #280297 by Demotruk on November 7, 2008 at 10:03 am

Almost everyone wants to convert people to their point of view. Isn't that half the point of argument? The other half would be exposing your own thoughts/position to criticism.

Other Comments by Demotruk

13. Comment #280298 by hungarianelephant on November 7, 2008 at 10:04 am

Tyler - will this do?

Church attendance

Gallup International indicates that 41%[42] of American citizens report they regularly attend religious services, compared to 15% of French citizens, 10% of UK citizens,[43] and 7.5% of Australian citizens.[44]

However, these numbers are open to dispute. ReligiousTolerance.org states:

"Church attendance data in the U.S. has been checked against actual values using two different techniques. The true figures show that only about 21% of Americans and 10% of Canadians actually go to church one or more times a week. Many Americans and Canadians tell pollsters that they have gone to church even though they have not. Whether this happens in other countries, with different cultures, is difficult to predict."[42]

In, a 2006 online Harris Poll of 2,010 U.S. adults (18 and older) found that only 26% of those surveyed attended religious services "every week or more often," 9% went "once or twice a month" 21% went "a few times a year," 3% went "once a year," 22% went "less than once a year," and 18% never attend religious services. An identical survey by Harris in 2003 found that only 26% of those surveyed attended religious services "every week or more often," 11% went "once or twice a month" 19% went "a few times a year," 4% went "once a year," 16% went "less than once a year," and 25% never attend religious services.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States#Church_attendance

EDIT: Perh. that 60% number comes from everyone in the last survey who went more than once a year. Not very convincing if that is the case.

Other Comments by hungarianelephant

14. Comment #280300 by Tyler Durden on November 7, 2008 at 10:17 am

Many thanks Hungarian.

Edit: Those figures from Harris Poll would seem to show no increase in church attendance figures. And what does Ms. Winston mean by "the past"? Very ambiguous.

Other Comments by Tyler Durden

15. Comment #280306 by alabasterocean on November 7, 2008 at 10:30 am

Come on... we might not agree on anything except that religion -theology! is plain nonsensical as a ground for reasonable arguments but we do try and hope that the rest of the planet will follow this idea. Don't we?

Religion:
"Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe."

I do not think it's correct use of language to say we are in, or share a religion. But I do think we all have a new common point of view: That the Winston character has little or worse semantic skills.

Whats wrong whit people!

Ps. In Sweden membership in the church point to hell- if hell is presumed to be down there somewhere. Most religious people also seem to be more agnostic - or just plain "there aught to be something, or?"

Other Comments by alabasterocean

16. Comment #280307 by Quetzalcoatl on November 7, 2008 at 10:32 am

"The irony here is that atheism is a form of religion. You're still in something."

Rubbish.

Not particularly eloquent, but still.

Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl

17. Comment #280308 by hungarianelephant on November 7, 2008 at 10:37 am

Well, I guarantee that more Americans go to church than in the early 15th century. So Winston is definitely right if she frames her reference points well.

Other Comments by hungarianelephant

18. Comment #280316 by drl2 on November 7, 2008 at 10:48 am

Why is there always an "agenda" when atheists speak out? Do they think we're having secret conspiratorial meetings on Sunday mornings while they're not paying attention? Isn't it possible for people to reply, "What you just wrote was really stupid", without having an "agenda"?

Other Comments by drl2

19. Comment #280322 by Eshto on November 7, 2008 at 10:54 am

"'The irony here is that atheism is a form of religion. You're still in something.'"

So is every form of social organization a "religion"? I'm an avid gamer and I frequent gaming websites, is that a "religion"? I'm an art student and hang out with other artists, is that a "religion"?

What about people with fetishes who hook up on the internet, do they have a "religion"?

Should Furries apply for tax exempt status??

Other Comments by Eshto

20. Comment #280326 by jdaudett on November 7, 2008 at 11:05 am

There is one point of view that we want people to share with us. The point of view that people should think rationally based on evidence.
I don't give three quarters of a damn if they believe in the supreme surveillance camera in the sky as long as they do so for reasons that make sense.

Oh yeah, and as long as they don't try to force their religious nonsense on me.

Other Comments by jdaudett

21. Comment #280327 by mitch_486 on November 7, 2008 at 11:06 am

Oh for shit's sake...

Religion according to the Encarta Dictionary (North America) is..

"people's beliefs and opinions concerning the existence, nature, and worship of a deity or deities, and divine involvement in the universe and human life"

Atheist (same dictionary)

"somebody who does not believe in God or deities"

Now please, Win(i'm an absolute ignoramus)ston....

I hate how they try so hard, they then, forget the meanings of the words they are using..

edit: grammar, I was pissed

fucktards

Other Comments by mitch_486

22. Comment #280328 by Spiny on November 7, 2008 at 11:07 am

Eshto: "gamer and I frequent gaming websites, is that a "religion"?

yes brother, welcome to the flock:

http://churchofgaming.com/

and

ctrl-alt-del (and a few onwards)

:D

Other Comments by Spiny

23. Comment #280336 by phil rimmer on November 7, 2008 at 11:23 am

Atheism is to religion as bald is to hair colour.

My favourite...

Atheism is a religion as much as off is a TV channel.

Other Comments by phil rimmer

24. Comment #280338 by justdust on November 7, 2008 at 11:25 am

a popular Twitter personality

Good grief

Other Comments by justdust

25. Comment #280347 by DiveMedic on November 7, 2008 at 11:34 am

drl2: " Do they think we're having secret conspiratorial meetings on Sunday mornings while they're not paying attention?"

The conspiratorial meetings are on Tuesday evenings... Didn't you get the memo?

Other Comments by DiveMedic

26. Comment #280357 by Kit Finn on November 7, 2008 at 11:45 am

I suppose that the fact that atheism is coming to be accepted as more 'normal' by mainstream papers (is LA Times a particularly frequently read paper in California?) could be seen as a good sign. I can't imagine an article saying 'oooh, non-religious people do the same things as us' being too popular with the religious crowd, even if the article is slightly in their favour.

But I agree that this Winston character is several pews short of a chapel.

Edited, clarity

Other Comments by Kit Finn

27. Comment #280359 by alabasterocean on November 7, 2008 at 11:48 am

Atheism is a religion as much as off is a TV channel.

-ha ha.... yes. Thats the metaphor in so many ways.

Other Comments by alabasterocean

28. Comment #280361 by Tezcatlipoca on November 7, 2008 at 11:51 am

"Atheism is a religion as much as off is a TV channel"

I've just had to change my email sig file...

Other Comments by Tezcatlipoca

29. Comment #280367 by Diacanu on November 7, 2008 at 11:57 am

So, what's the point of this article?

Some more subtle hate/fear mongering to make us the new jews, or what?

Other Comments by Diacanu

30. Comment #280373 by Steve Zara on November 7, 2008 at 12:07 pm

Comment #280367 by Diacanu

So, what's the point of this article?

It is very simple, my friend. To highlight that Mark Milian seems to have very little understanding of how the internet works, and that because some atheists use the internet, we are just like a religion.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

31. Comment #280375 by Diacanu on November 7, 2008 at 12:11 pm

Steve-

Mark Milian seems to have very little understanding of how the internet works, and that because some atheists use the internet, we are just like a religion.

Hmm, well, the former didn't need to be advertised in print, and the latter...is a mind-blowingly stupid point that's been made by far more entertaining hacks.

What does one have to do to not have a religion? Stop breathing?
Hmm, maybe that's what they're trying to trick us into.

Other Comments by Diacanu

32. Comment #280378 by alabasterocean on November 7, 2008 at 12:14 pm

"Some more subtle hate/fear mongering to make us the new jews, or what?"

-Vampire Hunter D, now you are just to funny. You can't say "make us the new jews" when we are in opposition of them. And every single one of the ignorant chosen people claiming the title. Don't we claim everyone as the only people?

I composed an e-mail to the Winston woman. That is the medicine - politely correct the person whom say weird or just ignorant, stupid or holy thing :)

Other Comments by alabasterocean

33. Comment #280380 by Diacanu on November 7, 2008 at 12:16 pm

alabasterocean-

You can't say "make us the new jews" when we are in opposition of them. And every single one of the ignorant chosen people claiming the title. Don't we claim everyone as the only people?

I meant artificially engineered social scapegoat wise, not dogma wise.

Other Comments by Diacanu

34. Comment #280386 by Tyler Durden on November 7, 2008 at 12:22 pm

alabasterocean,

I also sent the deluded Ms. Winston an email (very polite, but firm, of course) pointing out her obvious ignorance, errors and bias.

Wonder if we'll ever get a reply from her? :)

Other Comments by Tyler Durden

35. Comment #280395 by Ivan The Not So Bad on November 7, 2008 at 12:41 pm

The dinosaur picture is priceless.

"Even though we know the dinosaurs survived the flood (on Noah's Ark) we don't know if Jesus ever rode them. But he probably did".

And they probably shared a Marlboro afterwards......

Other Comments by Ivan The Not So Bad

36. Comment #280399 by alabasterocean on November 7, 2008 at 12:57 pm

Scapegoat wise... ha ha... yes :) I did know what you meant - I read your comments before. My opposition was grounded on the use of religious discourse. Don't. It's just a parody or to negative. Like the use of the title "nazi". It's more bound to "killer" then a specific kind of criticism or problem. Or, in the case of jews in history: the poor out-group. Naturalism, atheism, non theists, are not a infective group of people. Our policy rule the most powerful nations on this earth. And, as in Sweden, the most humanistic and peaceful.

-I'm drunk by the way :)

Other Comments by alabasterocean

37. Comment #280400 by Bonzai on November 7, 2008 at 1:04 pm

Eshto

What about people with fetishes who hook up on the internet, do they have a "religion"?

Of course they do. They are often down on their knees.

In a sense religion is a fetish too.

Other Comments by Bonzai

38. Comment #280416 by notsobad on November 7, 2008 at 1:34 pm

There is no agenda. People are just not afraid to speak their mind.

Other Comments by notsobad

39. Comment #280423 by infidel_michael on November 7, 2008 at 1:45 pm

The irony here is that atheism is a form of religion. You're still in something

The irony is that abstinence is a form of alcoholism. You still drink something.

Other Comments by infidel_michael

40. Comment #280425 by lol mahmood on November 7, 2008 at 1:47 pm

Atheism is a religion like not playing chess is a hobby

...is my favourite. I'm I first saw it on this site somewhere.

Other Comments by lol mahmood

41. Comment #280427 by amalthea on November 7, 2008 at 1:52 pm

Bonzai,
What's the fetish where you are a male, wear a dress, light candles, burn incense, invite people into your house (usually a big house, with lots of pictures n stuff), talk about pain, domination and submission, take money from the visitors, then wait for them to leave before you assault a child (usually a boy) who helps you take your dress off?
I assume there's a users manual for this fetish.

Oh wait.....

Sorry, couldn't resist, being an ex-catholic and brutalised by Penguins at an early age. They weren't really penguins, but I don't think I have to explain.

A

Other Comments by amalthea

42. Comment #280461 by robotaholic on November 7, 2008 at 2:40 pm

well thx for telling me about a few more websites I might want to visit...and a jesus/dinosaur picture i need to see

Other Comments by robotaholic

43. Comment #280464 by j.mills on November 7, 2008 at 2:43 pm

Yah, the dinosaur picture is astonishing. I particularly relished the suggested colours: Flesh Of Christ and, get this, Omnipotence Yellow. (No wonder Wordsworth was impressed by those daffs.)

Other Comments by j.mills

44. Comment #280468 by j.mills on November 7, 2008 at 2:48 pm

Oh, wait wait wait. It appears to be a spoof picture by one Derek Chatwood:

http://www.imagekind.com/Showartwork.aspx?IMID=9a342134-6228-4507-a5f1-48489f80a1ab

How disappointing!

Other Comments by j.mills

45. Comment #280473 by Caudimordax on November 7, 2008 at 3:00 pm

"How disappointing! "

Yes, and the newspaper clipping was a hoax as well.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/atheists.asp

Other Comments by Caudimordax

46. Comment #280509 by jaytee_555 on November 7, 2008 at 4:25 pm

Atheism is a religion in much the same way as Christianity isn't.

Other Comments by jaytee_555

47. Comment #280521 by Eshto on November 7, 2008 at 4:58 pm

@Spiny:

Ooooo...!

Other Comments by Eshto

48. Comment #280546 by WilliamP on November 7, 2008 at 6:25 pm

Comment #2, Toddaa said:

More evidence that any idiot can be an expert in religion.

And here I thought being an idiot was only a necessary condition for being a expert on religion. Or was that a religious expert'

Other Comments by WilliamP

49. Comment #280550 by mitch_486 on November 7, 2008 at 6:39 pm

And here I thought being an idiot was only a necessary condition for being a expert on religion. Or was that a religious expert?

....as it was meant to read

Other Comments by mitch_486

50. Comment #280572 by mmurray on November 7, 2008 at 9:16 pm

There is the old standby (TGD ? Sam Harris? )

If atheism is a religion then not collecting stamps is a hobby

Michael

Edit: I just read through the comments on that board. Usual stuff about atheists not being able to prove there are no Gods and some good rebuttals including this