1. Comment #304100 by Roko on December 20, 2008 at 10:42 am

Like many others, I'm sure, I can relate to Carr with his sentiments about not speaking one's mind when in a group where you're the minority and the loneliness likely to occur.

Now, it doesn't bother me. Being an individual comes at a price. But I seriously doubt I could ever come to terms with being a fake if I was to continue living with the beliefs thrown on to me because of cultural conditioning. To paraphrase some icon (might have been Kurt Cobain) "I'd rather be hated for what I am than loved for what I'm not."

Yup.

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2. Comment #304101 by Matt H. on December 20, 2008 at 10:47 am

At university, some of my friends were Christians and Richard Dawkins came up a few times. They used to say how awful and intolerant he is and how he gives atheism a bad name. Foolishly, I went along with it without ever bothering to read RD's writings myself. I described myself as a 'tolerant atheist' and I never felt comfortable enough to really criticise religion. Luckily, I was about to go on holiday and I decided to buy a few books to take with me. One of those books was The God Delusion. I loved it, everything made sense, and as soon as I came back from my holiday I signed up here.

I'm glad to hear Jimmy Carr went through the same process.

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3. Comment #304108 by Lemniscate on December 20, 2008 at 11:22 am

I saw Jimmy Carr recently, and, on top of being hilarious, he expressed his antitheism.

There's a lot of comedians in the atheist/antitheist camp these days, which I think is promising, as ridicule is an important weapon in the arsenal against woo.

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4. Comment #304109 by Rev. J.P. Wieloch on December 20, 2008 at 11:23 am

And there was me thinking Jimmy Carr was just a C list figure of fun in the world of light entertainment. I now see that I was wrong as he is now being feted as one who's opinions we should value and who's thought processes we should endevour to emulate.

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5. Comment #304110 by debacles on December 20, 2008 at 11:25 am

Jimmy Carr is one of my favorite comedians. Nice to know he's clear minded too.

What's the worst part of rollerblading?













....having to tell your parents you're gay.

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6. Comment #304112 by tvictor on December 20, 2008 at 11:28 am

"When you have a belief system, you'll ignore any evidence against it"

That's exactly what I see most christians doing. Their ideas about Dawkins' arguments (when any) are based on the biased writings of one of his fleas (The Dawkins Delusion for example) instead of reading TGD itself.

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7. Comment #304113 by Mango on December 20, 2008 at 11:29 am

Dr. Dawkins' writings have given me "intellectual tools" as well, but I'm comfortable knowing that I'm not his parrot. For example, long before I'd read "The God Delusion" I'd thought a religious upbringing was tantamount to a type of child abuse -- so Dr. Dawkins brought me some new ideas while at the same time reinforcing ones I'd already had. I suppose that is the case for most people to varying degrees.

I am more outspoken in recent years, and this is largely attributable to Dr. Dawkins' campaign.

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8. Comment #304115 by aoratos philos on December 20, 2008 at 11:32 am

Comedy is a great way of getting people to think about their beliefs.

Having made a somewhat profound statement above, here's a Jimmy Carr joke:

How do you get a fat chick into bed?








A piece of cake!


(waits for the feminist flame party...... )

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9. Comment #304116 by mdowe on December 20, 2008 at 11:37 am

When you have a belief system, you'll ignore any evidence against it until that evidence becomes irrefutable

Sigh ... if only this were true, religion would be on the ropes. Sadly, a surprising number of people won't change their belief system even when it is clear the mistake is going to cost them their own life, or the lives of their children. Only a very small number of people will change their belief system merely because they have been presented with irrefutable evidence.

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10. Comment #304122 by EricTheRed on December 20, 2008 at 11:48 am

Matt H.

At university, some of my friends were Christians and Richard Dawkins came up a few times. They used to say how awful and intolerant he is and how he gives atheism a bad name. Foolishly, I went along with it without ever bothering to read RD's writings myself. I described myself as a 'tolerant atheist' and I never felt comfortable enough to really criticise religion. Luckily, I was about to go on holiday and I decided to buy a few books to take with me. One of those books was The God Delusion. I loved it, everything made sense, and as soon as I came back from my holiday I signed up here.

I'm glad to hear Jimmy Carr went through the same process.

Hi Matt,
Have you seen Converts Corner (can be found under Community)? I think your experience should be described there. Good one mate.

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11. Comment #304123 by AllanW on December 20, 2008 at 11:49 am

Nice article. One of the more thoughtful comedians by the looks of things.

For the Rev ~ comment #4; is that a driveby whinge or are you staying for a conversation? If so, would you care to enlighten us with your list of people whose opinions are A list and therefore of value in your opinion?

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12. Comment #304125 by Librarian on December 20, 2008 at 11:52 am

I've become a lot more outspoken since reading TGD. I have an Atheist coffee cup I use every day at my Middle School. I make a point of saying as long as the christians can wear their crosses I can use my cup. No one has challenged it. Several of my colleagues are Atheist/Agnostics. We have a lot of fun together. I've got the science teachers on board to do a celebration of Darwin's birthday by creating a timeline of life and publicly displaying it around the school.

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13. Comment #304130 by Damien Trotter on December 20, 2008 at 12:04 pm

Odd. I have known since (at least) the beginning of July 2006 that Jimmy Carr is an atheist.

Go figure.

DT

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14. Comment #304134 by the great teapot on December 20, 2008 at 12:10 pm

I wonder which university this arrogant idiot went to.
I was at Leeds University 25 years ago, no of religious people I met- none.
what degree did he do, lady di studies?

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15. Comment #304136 by BryanEvans on December 20, 2008 at 12:16 pm

I'm getting to really like Carr. Apart from his escape from theism, he was on t.v. the other evening describing a performance in which someone in the front row had the odacity to answer their mobile, which gave me a real belly laugh. According to Carr, the offender casually said to the caller 'I'm at a comedy show,' there was a pause followed by the offender muttering the words 'not really.'

Haha! I like it. It's funnny because it requires us to fill in the blanks. If only theists had such a sense of humour about their gaps. Of course they do not see gaps as they are conveniently filled by supernatural nonsense which must, according to them, be taken very seriously indeed.

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16. Comment #304139 by VanYoungman on December 20, 2008 at 12:21 pm

Does somebody have a video clip of Mr. Carr?

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17. Comment #304141 by beanson on December 20, 2008 at 12:25 pm

Is Jimmy Carr the one with the camp voice, if so I find him irritating and not very funny- still glad to see that TGD does actually have the power to de-convert people.

But maybe you need to be at the critical tipping point first

Zen- "When you need a teacher, he (/she) will appear"

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18. Comment #304142 by Mark Smith on December 20, 2008 at 12:27 pm

the great teapot
What an odd thing to say. What makes him an 'arrogant idiot' and why do you think he did a low value(?) degree?

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19. Comment #304144 by the great teapot on December 20, 2008 at 12:32 pm

What makes me say arrogant is most of his act relies on him being arrogant.
What makes me question his degree is the lack of atheists he claims to have known,atheists are commonplace in the uk outside of monastries, although he is probably lying for affect.
PS He does make me laugh.
I also never said it was a low value degree.
Do you have something against Lady di studies.

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20. Comment #304145 by Eshto on December 20, 2008 at 12:34 pm

Hell yes, Richard has the power to deconvert. Of course he does, he's got all the facts on his side. His book turned me into a big ol' unapologetic heathen, when I had been calling myself "spiritual" and "pantheist" and all that.

But getting people to agree with RD and changing their cultural identifications are two different things. Using Richard's arguments (actually Dennet's crane analogy but I learned about it through Richard), I got my friend, who identifies as Christian, to admit it was correct and there's really no sense in believing in God.

Ah but then the next day, after he'd sobered up, he went back to calling himself a Christian. He knows it's not true now, he just likes to say it because it makes him feel like he's a part of something.

Sigh.

But I'll still count it as a victory if you can get people thinking critically, even if they are still attending mass.

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21. Comment #304147 by Eshto on December 20, 2008 at 12:41 pm

There isn't really a Ladi Di studies, is there?

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22. Comment #304148 by Mark Smith on December 20, 2008 at 12:42 pm

What makes me say arrogant is most of his act relies on him being arrogant.

Oh OK, I thought you were implying it was something that could be inferred from the article.

What makes me question his degree is the lack of atheists he claims to have known,atheists are commonplace in the uk outside of monastries, although he is probably lying for affect.

Most UK universities now have strong Christian groupings (eg the Christian Unions) in them. He probably got involved in one of these groupings. He doesn't say there was a lack of atheists though, so I don't see why you think he is lying.

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23. Comment #304153 by the great teapot on December 20, 2008 at 12:52 pm

Estho,
Hopefully not. Jimmy Carr isn't the only bullshitter on this thread.
Mark there is also a strong ballroom dancing society but jimmy probably didn't join that.
He would have been aware most people don't ballroom dance.

Other Comments by the great teapot

24. Comment #304154 by Matt H. on December 20, 2008 at 12:52 pm

Beanson: You are thinking of Alan Carr, a loathsome man who doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Jimmy Carr.

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25. Comment #304155 by MarkHW42 on December 20, 2008 at 12:53 pm

beanson: No, the person you're thinking of is Alan Carr, who is an annoying bellend and about as funny as seeing blood on your toilet paper.

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26. Comment #304156 by Mark Smith on December 20, 2008 at 12:55 pm

tgt
just to be sure I'm not missing something, are you getting all this from the 3rd to 5th sentences of the first paragraph?

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27. Comment #304157 by the great teapot on December 20, 2008 at 12:56 pm

Also
Richards rise to prominance as an atheist mouthpiece comes long after jimmy's rise to fame let alone his university days.

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28. Comment #304159 by the great teapot on December 20, 2008 at 1:06 pm

No Mark I read the lot.
I do not recognise the enviroment he claims to have grown up in.
In th UK I grew up in Richard only reinforces an already established view. He is not breaking bondaries as Jimmy suggests.

Other Comments by the great teapot

29. Comment #304160 by decius on December 20, 2008 at 1:08 pm

Comment #304123 by AllanW

I, for one, certainly value more a C-list comedian's opinion than a reverend's, or an astrologist's, or even a pope's.

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30. Comment #304164 by Duff on December 20, 2008 at 1:16 pm

Rev. Wheloch,
But those C listers are adddddinng uppp. If you are a smart, sentient fellow, it must be a bit unnerving to feel an ever-growing bunch of exceedingly intelligent, articulate atheists breathing down your neck, poking their evidence in your face, and you, on your knees before your here-to-fore not very helpful god, hoping and praying that those things you've been reared to believe are something more than hopeful myths.

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31. Comment #304169 by epeeist on December 20, 2008 at 1:24 pm

Comment #304123 by AllanW

For the Rev ~ comment #4; is that a driveby whinge or are you staying for a conversation? If so, would you care to enlighten us with your list of people whose opinions are A list and therefore of value in your opinion?

Bet you its a drive-by. Registered yesterday, didn't say whether he had read TGD or not (but I think we might be able to make a guess).

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32. Comment #304173 by phil rimmer on December 20, 2008 at 1:36 pm

Comment #304160 by decius

I rate comedians' observations pretty highly too. They have a major investment in truth.

I have always viewed modern comedians as being something akin to social scientists only with real knowledge. Observational humour only works if is substantially true. The immediate feedback afforded by nightly performances does more to hone the verity of their observations (possibly) than the tiny sampling of scientists questionnaires or lab based experiments.

Though funny, Jimmy Carr is one of my least favourite comedians. However, on hearing him talk about a very unhappy period of his life with a surprising degree of honesty, (refusing the usual melodramatic term of depression to describe his mental state), I came to regard him more highly. This reinforces that view.

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33. Comment #304174 by Mark Smith on December 20, 2008 at 1:36 pm

tgt
Then you and I are reading the article very differently. But I don't think it is worth getting into an argument about. So I will leave it there if that is OK.
Cheers

Other Comments by Mark Smith

34. Comment #304177 by decius on December 20, 2008 at 1:41 pm

Comment #304173 by phil rimmer

I am not acquainted with his work, nor with his personal story. I agree with your views about comedians in general.

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35. Comment #304184 by the great teapot on December 20, 2008 at 1:46 pm

Mark
Fine, I just kinda don't believe he is being honest. He is too old to have had his views changed in the way he is suggesting. I feel he is jumping on a bandwagon.
But otherwise, who cares?

Other Comments by the great teapot

36. Comment #304188 by beanson on December 20, 2008 at 1:51 pm

Ahh

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37. Comment #304191 by Rachel Holmes on December 20, 2008 at 1:53 pm

People here think Jimmy Carr is funnier than Alan Carr? Dear lord. I despair.

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38. Comment #304194 by Johnny O on December 20, 2008 at 1:57 pm

I saw Jimmy Carr a few years ago, he was doing some gags about personalised cards he was making and asked if anyone was celebrating anything. My (now ex) wife put her hand up and said it was my birthday. He asked how old I was, I said, "36".

He replied, "Older than Jesus, well done... that makes you better than him", and that was how he signed the card.

It sits by my monitor at work...

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39. Comment #304197 by phil rimmer on December 20, 2008 at 1:59 pm

Comment #304177 by decius

I am not acquainted with his work

You have missed nothing. His material has been irredeemably trivial. Maybe he'll have the confidence to do something substantial now that a huge area of truth has been secured for him.

(The only other religious comedians I have known have been "trivial", offering few insights into the human condition.)

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40. Comment #304199 by Rachel Holmes on December 20, 2008 at 2:03 pm

You have missed nothing. His material has been irredeemably trivial.

I feel less lonely now. It's nice to know he's an atheist, but it doesn't mean he's a good comedian.

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41. Comment #304209 by Jiten on December 20, 2008 at 2:13 pm

What I've heard about Jimmy Carr is that other comedians make jokes about him. These are funny. I don't know if Jimmy Carr is funny.

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42. Comment #304212 by phil rimmer on December 20, 2008 at 2:15 pm

I feel less lonely now

Yes, but you won't really find your way back to social acceptance with your tolerant attitude to Alan Carr...

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43. Comment #304215 by Rachel Holmes on December 20, 2008 at 2:18 pm

Yes, but you won't really find your way back to social acceptance with your tolerant attitude to Alan Carr...

Jimmy does one-liner gags based on worn out, cliched stereotypes. My cat is a better comedian than he is. He's Bernard Manning without the racism.

Other Comments by Rachel Holmes

44. Comment #304220 by phil rimmer on December 20, 2008 at 2:22 pm

Nailed him!

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45. Comment #304226 by the great teapot on December 20, 2008 at 2:37 pm

Bernard Manning would regularly say to a bloke in the audience " Is that your wife? I hope she fucks better than she looks" Now you mention it Rachel I could just see Jimmy Carr saying that.

Other Comments by the great teapot

46. Comment #304231 by AllanW on December 20, 2008 at 2:46 pm

Don't get me started on Bernard Manning; he died still owing me a packet of fags.

I may be tempted with sufficient Guinness in Dublin to tell you the circumstances under which he took them. The story also involves a famous footballer ...

Other Comments by AllanW

47. Comment #304236 by the great teapot on December 20, 2008 at 2:51 pm

The Bastard.

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48. Comment #304246 by theantitheist on December 20, 2008 at 3:12 pm

Phew!

When I read the headline I thought he'd only questioned his faith rather then rejecting it. I find it almost impossible to believe that anyone who has read his books and still believes in religion is intellectually honest. And I for the record like Jimmy Carr, used his roller skating joke many times.

Other then that I think he has hit the nail on the head in his opinions.

Allan, Bernard Manning, Guinness and Fags? I'm guessing the footballer was the 'best' out there?

Other Comments by theantitheist

49. Comment #304251 by AllanW on December 20, 2008 at 3:19 pm

Comment #304246 by theantitheist on December 20, 2008 at 3:12 pm
'Allan, Bernard Manning, Guinness and Fags? I'm guessing the footballer was the 'best' out there? '

Good guess as Best was no more than ten feet away but George was not the footballer in question.

Other Comments by AllanW

50. Comment #304294 by Kentrel on December 20, 2008 at 4:50 pm

What comedians make jokes about Jimmy Carr? They can't be very good ones if I've never heard of them, and i go see comedy a lot.

Carr, whether you like his style or not, is one of the fastest comedians working in the UK right now. I've seen so many acts here and very few of them can match Jimmy's ability to handle almost any heckle, any insult, any joke directed at him.

He intentionally screws with the audience because he's confident in his ability to outmatch them. He usually always outmatches others on comedy panels, except Dara O'Brian, who's pretty damn good at it too. Most comedians just have a few stock phrases to handle hecklers or jokes directed at them, and then go back to their routine. Carr makes a good half of his show about the audience. He's a smart guy and plays to his strengths

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