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Atheists launch bus ad campaign
Ariane Sherine
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(Video from The Guardian)
Another video from the BBC (click to play)
http://twitter.com/AtheistBus has a listing of media and internet coverage of the campaign.
http://www.atheistbus.org.uk/bus-locations/ shows a map of Britain with locations of buses.
The official campaign site invites spotters to send bus sightings in to photos@atheistbus.org.uk
The Official Atheist Bus Campaign Website: http://www.atheistbus.org.uk/
Photos from the launch
More on Flickr
T-Shirts!
(Proceeds go to the bus campaign)
The atheist bus journey
by Ariane Sherine, Guardian
Thanks to you we raised enough money to put ads on 800 buses across the UK, and the campaign has gone global
Today, thanks to many Cif readers, the overall total raised for the Atheist Bus Campaign stands at a truly overwhelming £135,000, breaking our original target of £5,500 by over 2400%. Given this unexpected amount, I'm very excited to tell you that 800 buses – instead of the 30 we were initially aiming for – are now rolling out across the UK with the slogan, "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life", in locations all over England, Scotland and Wales, including Manchester, Edinburgh, Glasgow, York, Cardiff, Devon, Leeds, Bristol and Aberdeen.
From today's launch, two hundred of the buses will run in London, because the campaign was originally started as a positive counter-response to the Jesus Said ads running on London buses in June 2008. These ads displayed the URL of a website which stated that non-Christians "will be condemned to everlasting separation from God and then you spend all eternity in torment in hell … Jesus spoke about this as a lake of fire prepared for the devil". Our rational slogan will hopefully reassure anyone who has been scared by this kind of evangelism.
In addition, we're running adverts on two further types of media. In my last Cif blog on the campaign, I asked Cif readers for ideas on alternative ways to spend the funds, and also for thoughts on different slogans. Commenters WoollyMindedLiberal, PaoloV and Catch22 suggested that we use quotes from famous freethinkers, and we've done just that: from Monday January 12, 1,000 tube cards will run on London Underground featuring atheist quotations from Douglas Adams, Albert Einstein, Emily Dickinson and Katharine Hepburn (see above), alongside the original campaign slogan.
An animated version of the slogan will also appear on two large LCD screens on Oxford Street (opposite Bond Street tube station), so that you can see the advert live without having to wait for an atheist bus. And, to thank all donors and show the strength of atheism in the UK, every ABC advertisement will contain the line "This advert was funded by public donations".
Amazingly, the campaign has now gone international. Spain's Union of Atheists and Freethinkers are launching buses across Barcelona today with a translation of our slogan, Italy's Union of Atheist, Agnostics and Rationalists are also planning to roll out atheist buses, while the American Humanist Association have been inspired to launch a campaign, and buses carrying their slogan "Why believe in a God? Just be good for goodness' sake" have now been running for over a month in Washington DC. Sadly, not every country has been so open to the idea: the Atheist Foundation of Australia tried to place the slogan "Atheism – celebrate reason" on buses, but were rejected by Australia's biggest outdoor advertising company.
The campaign's success is thanks to Cif and Cif readers. If Matt Seaton hadn't allowed me to run with the idea here, and so many of you hadn't been so enthusiastic about it and donated generously to it, it would never have happened. There may be further campaign developments, and the campaign website and Facebook group will be regularly updated with the latest news; but for now, I hope you enjoy seeing the adverts on the streets, and that they brighten these bleak January days just a little bit. As Charlie Brooker – one of the first people to donate to the Atheist Bus Campaign – says: "Public transport in Britain suggests there isn't a God anyway, but in case anyone hasn't noticed, or feels isolated for thinking such a thing, this campaign should help." I hope it does.
Atheists launch bus ad campaign by the BBC
An atheist advertising campaign has been launched on buses across Britain.
A fund-raising drive for the promotion, carrying the slogan "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life", raised more than £140,000.
The campaign, which will also feature on the Tube, is backed by the British Humanist Association and prominent atheist, Professor Richard Dawkins.
The Church of England said Christian faith allowed people to put their life into a "proper perspective".
A spokesman said: "We would defend the right of any group representing a religious or philosophical position to be able to promote that view through appropriate channels.
"However, Christian belief is not about worrying or not enjoying life."
Pressure group Christian Voice has questioned the campaign's effectiveness but the Methodist Church said it would be a "good thing if it gets people to engage with the deepest questions of life" and suggested it showed there was a "continued interest in God".
The advertisements will run on 200 bendy buses in London and 600 vehicles in England, Scotland and Wales.
The British Humanist Association said the buses carrying the slogan outside London would operate in Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow, Edinburgh, York, Leeds, Newcastle, Dundee, Sheffield, Coventry, Devon, Liverpool, Wolverhampton, Swansea, Newport, Rhondda, Bristol, Southampton, and Aberdeen.
'Exasperation'
Four posters featuring quotations from the likes of Douglas Adams, Albert Einstein, and Katharine Hepburn will also be placed at 1,000 London Underground locations.
The campaign was devised by comedy writer Ariane Sherine.
She was inspired to seek donations after objecting to a set of Christian advertisements on a bus.
When people went to a highlighted website address, they were told that whose who rejected God were condemned to spend all eternity to "torment in Hell".
Ms Sherine said she sought donations for a "reassuring" counter-advertisement.
She said: "I think there have been a lot of people out there who have been looking at evangelical advertisements and not saying anything and thinking that these advertisements have been approved and just shrugging it off.
"Now finally they have an opportunity to express this feeling of exasperation."
Professor Dawkins made a donation of £5,500 himself.
He said: "Across Britain we are used to being bombarded by religious interests, not just Christians but other religions as well...
"In the House of Lords we have bishops sitting as of right and we are still very much dominated by religious interests."
Other supporters at the launch of the poster campaign included philosopher A C Grayling, Guardian columnist Polly Toynbee, and Graham Linehan, co-writer of the Father Ted TV comedy series.
Also See:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article5459138.ece
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/world/europe/07london.html?_r=2&ref=world (thanks to Quine)
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/01/06/atheist-bus-ads-roll.html
Another video from the BBC (click to play)
http://twitter.com/AtheistBus has a listing of media and internet coverage of the campaign.
http://www.atheistbus.org.uk/bus-locations/ shows a map of Britain with locations of buses.
The official campaign site invites spotters to send bus sightings in to photos@atheistbus.org.uk
The Official Atheist Bus Campaign Website: http://www.atheistbus.org.uk/
Photos from the launch
More on Flickr
T-Shirts!
(Proceeds go to the bus campaign)
The atheist bus journey
by Ariane Sherine, Guardian
Thanks to you we raised enough money to put ads on 800 buses across the UK, and the campaign has gone global
Today, thanks to many Cif readers, the overall total raised for the Atheist Bus Campaign stands at a truly overwhelming £135,000, breaking our original target of £5,500 by over 2400%. Given this unexpected amount, I'm very excited to tell you that 800 buses – instead of the 30 we were initially aiming for – are now rolling out across the UK with the slogan, "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life", in locations all over England, Scotland and Wales, including Manchester, Edinburgh, Glasgow, York, Cardiff, Devon, Leeds, Bristol and Aberdeen.
From today's launch, two hundred of the buses will run in London, because the campaign was originally started as a positive counter-response to the Jesus Said ads running on London buses in June 2008. These ads displayed the URL of a website which stated that non-Christians "will be condemned to everlasting separation from God and then you spend all eternity in torment in hell … Jesus spoke about this as a lake of fire prepared for the devil". Our rational slogan will hopefully reassure anyone who has been scared by this kind of evangelism.
In addition, we're running adverts on two further types of media. In my last Cif blog on the campaign, I asked Cif readers for ideas on alternative ways to spend the funds, and also for thoughts on different slogans. Commenters WoollyMindedLiberal, PaoloV and Catch22 suggested that we use quotes from famous freethinkers, and we've done just that: from Monday January 12, 1,000 tube cards will run on London Underground featuring atheist quotations from Douglas Adams, Albert Einstein, Emily Dickinson and Katharine Hepburn (see above), alongside the original campaign slogan.
An animated version of the slogan will also appear on two large LCD screens on Oxford Street (opposite Bond Street tube station), so that you can see the advert live without having to wait for an atheist bus. And, to thank all donors and show the strength of atheism in the UK, every ABC advertisement will contain the line "This advert was funded by public donations".
Amazingly, the campaign has now gone international. Spain's Union of Atheists and Freethinkers are launching buses across Barcelona today with a translation of our slogan, Italy's Union of Atheist, Agnostics and Rationalists are also planning to roll out atheist buses, while the American Humanist Association have been inspired to launch a campaign, and buses carrying their slogan "Why believe in a God? Just be good for goodness' sake" have now been running for over a month in Washington DC. Sadly, not every country has been so open to the idea: the Atheist Foundation of Australia tried to place the slogan "Atheism – celebrate reason" on buses, but were rejected by Australia's biggest outdoor advertising company.
The campaign's success is thanks to Cif and Cif readers. If Matt Seaton hadn't allowed me to run with the idea here, and so many of you hadn't been so enthusiastic about it and donated generously to it, it would never have happened. There may be further campaign developments, and the campaign website and Facebook group will be regularly updated with the latest news; but for now, I hope you enjoy seeing the adverts on the streets, and that they brighten these bleak January days just a little bit. As Charlie Brooker – one of the first people to donate to the Atheist Bus Campaign – says: "Public transport in Britain suggests there isn't a God anyway, but in case anyone hasn't noticed, or feels isolated for thinking such a thing, this campaign should help." I hope it does.
Atheists launch bus ad campaign by the BBC
An atheist advertising campaign has been launched on buses across Britain.
A fund-raising drive for the promotion, carrying the slogan "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life", raised more than £140,000.
The campaign, which will also feature on the Tube, is backed by the British Humanist Association and prominent atheist, Professor Richard Dawkins.
The Church of England said Christian faith allowed people to put their life into a "proper perspective".
A spokesman said: "We would defend the right of any group representing a religious or philosophical position to be able to promote that view through appropriate channels.
"However, Christian belief is not about worrying or not enjoying life."
Pressure group Christian Voice has questioned the campaign's effectiveness but the Methodist Church said it would be a "good thing if it gets people to engage with the deepest questions of life" and suggested it showed there was a "continued interest in God".
The advertisements will run on 200 bendy buses in London and 600 vehicles in England, Scotland and Wales.
The British Humanist Association said the buses carrying the slogan outside London would operate in Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow, Edinburgh, York, Leeds, Newcastle, Dundee, Sheffield, Coventry, Devon, Liverpool, Wolverhampton, Swansea, Newport, Rhondda, Bristol, Southampton, and Aberdeen.
'Exasperation'
Four posters featuring quotations from the likes of Douglas Adams, Albert Einstein, and Katharine Hepburn will also be placed at 1,000 London Underground locations.
The campaign was devised by comedy writer Ariane Sherine.
She was inspired to seek donations after objecting to a set of Christian advertisements on a bus.
When people went to a highlighted website address, they were told that whose who rejected God were condemned to spend all eternity to "torment in Hell".
Ms Sherine said she sought donations for a "reassuring" counter-advertisement.
She said: "I think there have been a lot of people out there who have been looking at evangelical advertisements and not saying anything and thinking that these advertisements have been approved and just shrugging it off.
"Now finally they have an opportunity to express this feeling of exasperation."
Professor Dawkins made a donation of £5,500 himself.
He said: "Across Britain we are used to being bombarded by religious interests, not just Christians but other religions as well...
"In the House of Lords we have bishops sitting as of right and we are still very much dominated by religious interests."
Other supporters at the launch of the poster campaign included philosopher A C Grayling, Guardian columnist Polly Toynbee, and Graham Linehan, co-writer of the Father Ted TV comedy series.
Also See:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article5459138.ece
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/world/europe/07london.html?_r=2&ref=world (thanks to Quine)
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/01/06/atheist-bus-ads-roll.html
Comments 1 - 50 of 1351 | | View Alternate Comment Thread
Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers2. Comment #313610 by Linda on January 6, 2009 at 11:44 am
Ariane Sherine's wonderful idea is now a rolling reality. The gentle reminder that we deserve freedom from religion can only help more people feel confident enough to come out as Atheists.A really big challenge for future Atheist advertising campaigns would be to put the signs on buses in Palestine and Israel where the message is desperately needed.
Other Comments by Linda
3. Comment #313611 by Szymanowski on January 6, 2009 at 11:44 am
RD shows an unusual level of anger (though not without humour) in the Grauniad video - "they have to take offence; it's the only weapon they've got". Other Comments by Szymanowski
4. Comment #313613 by HourglassMemory on January 6, 2009 at 11:46 am
I love seeing Richard on that bus there.It's great seeing these ads actually going out there for people to see.
Just to make them think.
I wonder how many depressed teenagers' fathers will accuse Dawkins and the bus ad for causing their kids' suicides?
Other Comments by HourglassMemory
5. Comment #313614 by mordacious1 on January 6, 2009 at 11:47 am
Comment #313611 by Szymanowski
That's not anger, just well-spoken truth. I liked Polly's comments too.
Other Comments by mordacious1
6. Comment #313615 by Vinelectric on January 6, 2009 at 11:49 am
Well done.Well done.
Other Comments by Vinelectric
7. Comment #313618 by John_Geeshu on January 6, 2009 at 11:58 am
Atheists are hot! Other Comments by John_Geeshu
8. Comment #313619 by The Smart Patrol on January 6, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Hmmm, I think I'm in love with Ariane Sherine. Beautiful, smart, irreligious, innovative and able to use her charms to raise £140,000 for a wickedly exciting atheist bus ad campaign. What more could you ask for?And by the way Szymanowski, I didn't think that there was anything unusally angry about Richard's comments at all.
Other Comments by The Smart Patrol
10. Comment #313623 by dvophoto on January 6, 2009 at 12:07 pm
"probably"? how convincing!and I think if you polled believers, the results would show that an overwhelming majority of believers would say that they ARE enjoying their lives (myself included).
You don't have to NOT believe in God to enjoy life.
...Another revenge campaign on the part of atheists that falls short of delivering a well thought out message.
Other Comments by dvophoto
11. Comment #313625 by DamnDirtyApe on January 6, 2009 at 12:09 pm
*Pictures vicars shaking fists 'damn you, sexy atheists!'Other Comments by DamnDirtyApe
12. Comment #313626 by Quetzalcoatl on January 6, 2009 at 12:10 pm
dvophoto-
What a mature post. Are you interested in discussion, or are you just going to hit and run?
Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl
13. Comment #313627 by phil rimmer on January 6, 2009 at 12:11 pm
I've changed my mind. I was a nay-sayer about this campaign. No more. I can see how it can work now.We need a few more photo ops with a host of rational celebs riding the rational bus.
Boy, Richard can coin them too.
"They [the religious] have to take offence. Its the only weapon they've got."
Cracking.
Other Comments by phil rimmer
14. Comment #313628 by Inside centre on January 6, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Comment #313613 by HourglassMemoryIt wouldn't suprise me. But it would be an especially odd suggestion as the campaign clearly states 'enjoy life'.
Also like the Prof's idea that taking offence is the only weapon they have. I'd say religious people also have intimidation and indoctrination up their sleeve but in the UK offence is the weapon of choice against secular movements. After all, they do say offence is the best form of defence (poor joke made, I'll be quiet now).
Other Comments by Inside centre
15. Comment #313629 by threespeed on January 6, 2009 at 12:12 pm
On the buses!
"I 'ate you Butler Act..!"
Other Comments by threespeed
16. Comment #313631 by Steve Zara on January 6, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Comment #313623 by dvophoto"probably"? how convincing!
Would you be any more convinced if the message said "certainly"? The point is to promote thought and discussion.
and I think if you polled believers, the results would show that an overwhelming majority of believers would say that they ARE enjoying their lives (myself included).
You don't have to NOT believe in God to enjoy life.
You can enjoy life if you stay drunk. But for those who are wondering if they can tolerate sobriety, it is worth pointing out that you don't need to be pissed to be happy.
...Another revenge campaign on the part of atheists that falls short of delivering a well thought out message.
I think it is a gentle and very English message: ideal for a Bus.
Other Comments by Steve Zara
17. Comment #313634 by MaxD on January 6, 2009 at 12:23 pm
dvophoto,
I think irreverence was more the point, and not revenge. Of course you don't have to not believe in God to be happy, but man it sure makes it easier. Think of all the stuff you don't have to worry about. Praying five times a day, ecshewing shell fish, and porn. I don't have to worry if I have accidently denied the holy spirit.
Not believing isn't the sole step, but man I think it is an utterly necessary one.
Other Comments by MaxD
18. Comment #313638 by The Smart Patrol on January 6, 2009 at 12:35 pm
Steve Zara said:"You can enjoy life if you stay drunk. But for those who are wondering if they can tolerate sobriety, it is worth pointing out that you don't need to be pissed to be happy."
That's a beauty! Did you come up with that one yourself?
Other Comments by The Smart Patrol
19. Comment #313642 by milt on January 6, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Yay,I made a humble contribution to this, and it will warm my heart when I see the bus go by in London.
Typical 'believers' response after years of free reign and special treatment is to start bleating. Why do they resent atheists a mild, brief moment of publicity before we, as they see it , burn for eternity in a lake of fire? Meanies! Offence is their only weapon indeed.
More like this please.
milt
Other Comments by milt
20. Comment #313647 by elfinabout on January 6, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Ref Steve's comment - made me think of:"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one" - George Bernard Shaw
:o)
Other Comments by elfinabout
21. Comment #313648 by Steve Zara on January 6, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Comment #313647 by elfinaboutThat quote is what inspired me.
Other Comments by Steve Zara
22. Comment #313649 by dvophoto on January 6, 2009 at 12:50 pm
Quetzalcoatl:Unfortunately, this commenting system is not conducive to proper back and forth discussion as it lacks a simple threaded reply mechanism in its code framework.
So, this commenting structure is better suited for so-called "hit and runs", but yes, I'm most definitely interested in discussion.
I'll start by discussing that I'm glad Dawkins himself admits there is no way to disprove God, so "probably" is the furthest an atheist argument can go.
Secondly, with the message is incredibly poorly thought out, let's deconstruct it here:
1) "THERE'S PROBABLY NO GOD." - That is indeed the furthest the atheist community can go as they have no proof. Saying "I've never seen God, how can he exist?" is not proof, it's a lack of knowledge based on experience.
A strong Christian might tell you that he's seen God everywhere and in everything. If an atheist who hears that and doesn't believe that God can be seen in anything and everything ( suggesting He's got to be a human like figure that we recognize as we recognize other people), then it's the fault of the atheist's misunderstanding of who the christian God is and how He is revealed to us.
2) "SO STOP WORRYING AND ENJOY YOUR LIFE."
Who is it that they are suggesting is worrying about this? Christians? Atheists? Agnostics?
As a christian, I'm not worried about ANYTHING, as Christ has told us not to (see Matthew 6:25-34).
So who's worrying?
I don't know a single strong christian who is NOT enjoying their life...and I know quite a few non-christians who tell me they are NOT enjoying their lives and whom have little inner-peace to show. And yes, I also know several non-christians who ARE enjoying their lives as well, i'm not suggesting it's not possible to be a non-believer and enjoy life.
My problem is that this message suggests nothing more to the reader than to play a spiritual game of russian roulette.
Consider Pascal's Wager when weighing the odds of that kind of game.
>If you DON'T believe in God and He DOESN'T exist - nothing happens.
>If you DO believe in God and He DOESN'T exist - nothing happens
>If you DO believe in God and He DOES exist - You inherit His kingdom
>If you DON'T believe in God and he DOES exist - You do NOT inherit the kingdom of God.
(Notice I did not say "you burn in hell" if you don't believe in Him and he does exist..I believe it's up to God what happens to your soul in that case as He has the final say so and can show mercy on whomever He so desires.)
Other Comments by dvophoto
23. Comment #313650 by Ian Bamlett on January 6, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Good to see it actually happening, and so glad I contributed; just sorry I won't see anything like that where I am anytime soon, (USA). Other Comments by Ian Bamlett
24. Comment #313651 by Cartomancer on January 6, 2009 at 12:55 pm
You can enjoy life if you stay drunk. But for those who are wondering if they can tolerate sobriety, it is worth pointing out that you don't need to be pissed to be happy.I wish pointing this out to my parents would actually do some good...
Enjoy the Pascal's Wager Troll everyone. I hope we've all been stocking up on our Troll Mix? I would stick around, but the stresses of military leadership are terribly pressing...
Other Comments by Cartomancer
25. Comment #313652 by KRKBAB on January 6, 2009 at 12:59 pm
I LOVE to hear her laugh after she says "all non christians will burn for an eternity in a lake of fire"! It's so cute- and APPROPRIATE. We're on a roll now. We have to continue to laugh OUT LOUD at the ludicrousness of religious claims AND heap on the ridicule. To the buses!- oh wait, I'm stateside.Other Comments by KRKBAB
26. Comment #313653 by Steve Zara on January 6, 2009 at 12:59 pm
dvophoto-Saying "I've never seen God, how can he exist?" is not proof
It is very good evidence about what you should believe. Suppose you were wandering around in a forest, and someone told you that fairies were absolutely everywhere. You looked around and saw nothing. The explanation was that whenever you looked, all the fairies hid, but they really, really were everywhere. Not actually seeing those fairies is a pretty good reason for not believing in them.
There is no sensible evidence for God. Nothing at all. So, not seeing the evidence, it means it is sensible to not bother believing that he exists. It doesn't mean he doesn't exist, just that it isn't sensible. There are an infinite number of things that we can't prove don't exist, but it is not worth believing in.
And, I have to say, it is a pretty desperate tactic to resort to the "you can't prove absence" argument.
Other Comments by Steve Zara
27. Comment #313654 by zeroangel on January 6, 2009 at 1:00 pm
OMG. She is beautiful, almost as hot as my wife *smile*.
Anyhow, Pascal's wager? *YAWNNNN~~~~~~* Come on man, you can do better. You are about to be eaten alive here.
Other Comments by zeroangel
28. Comment #313655 by Ian Bamlett on January 6, 2009 at 1:01 pm
Comment #313649 by dvophoto
Sigh... I'll just pick one no doubt others will do a better job on the rest...
I don't know a single strong christian who is NOT enjoying their life
Oh really' Then you have never met a christian who believes their faith but also happens to be gay and is therefore mentally tortured in ways you could not believe. Happens all the time here in the USA.
If you want to meet a good decent teenage kid almost suicidal with guilt and confusion because their feelings tell them one thing but their religion tells them something else I would be delighted to arrange an introduction you head stuck in the sand buffoon.
Other Comments by Ian Bamlett
29. Comment #313656 by Richard Dawkins on January 6, 2009 at 1:02 pm
After the official launch, I went to lunch with A C Grayling. As we rode in a taxi to a different part of London, I was absurdly pleased to pass two of 'our' buses, out there in the field, so to speak.Richard
Other Comments by Richard Dawkins
30. Comment #313657 by Baron Scarpia on January 6, 2009 at 1:03 pm
I am not happy when drunk. I cannot cope with the dizzy spells.
Anyway -
Dvophoto, rest assured that you have raised nothing that has not been raised here many times previously.
1) it's the fault of the atheist's misunderstanding of who the christian God is and how He is revealed to us.
Do educate us. The burden of proof is very much on you.
2) Who is it that they are suggesting is worrying about this? Christians?
And then you go on to say -
Consider Pascal's Wager when weighing the odds of that kind of game.
So you do worry. You worry you won't get into Heaven. You worry that you won't be allowed into god's magical nightclub.
Suppose I don't believe but god lets me in anyway, hmm? After all, you've said he can do what he likes with my soul...
Other Comments by Baron Scarpia
31. Comment #313658 by elfinabout on January 6, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Do I smell Pascal in the room...? Other Comments by elfinabout
32. Comment #313659 by fsm1965 on January 6, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Can't wait to see this arriving in Cardiff, gotta get cameraphone charged and ready....As Richard said, offence is the god-botherers' last means of defence. Blasphemy is gone, logical reasoning is gone, quoting chapter and verse is gone, fear of hell is gone.
The final attempt to silence their critcs - to claim offence and mental anguish.
Love to see other quotes too, from other people.
BTW, has Mr Souter stopped Scottish buses from showing this, the film and article dont make this clear?
If so, can we claim religous discrimination? (Ironic, I know...)
Other Comments by fsm1965
33. Comment #313661 by Oystein Elgaroy on January 6, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Comment #313649 by dvophoto I'll start by discussing that I'm glad Dawkins himself admits there is no way to disprove God, so "probably" is the furthest an atheist argument can go.
You can't disprove God in general, but I would say that there are certain concepts of God that can be disproved because they are self-contradictory. The Christian concept of a triune God is one of them.
A strong Christian might tell you that he's seen God everywhere and in everything.
Please tell us how. I used to be a Christian, and I never saw him anywhere. But I guess I was weak.
Who is it that they are suggesting is worrying about this? Christians? Atheists? Agnostics?
I have been told several times by Christians that I should worry about where I will end up when I am dead. Very much like you do in the following:
Consider Pascal's Wager when weighing the odds of that kind of game.
>If you DON'T believe in God and He DOESN'T exist - nothing happens.
>If you DO believe in God and He DOESN'T exist - nothing happens
>If you DO believe in God and He DOES exist - You inherit His kingdom
>If you DON'T believe in God and he DOES exist - You do NOT inherit the kingdom of God.
How do you know that your God is the only alternative? What about Quetzalcoatl (who at least exists on this site)? Or Thor?
(Notice I did not say "you burn in hell" if you don't believe in Him and he does exist..I believe it's up to God what happens to your soul in that case as He has the final say so and can show mercy on whomever He so desires.)
How sweet of you. And Him.
Other Comments by Oystein Elgaroy
34. Comment #313662 by dvophoto on January 6, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Comment #313634 by MaxDIt's clear that you have a somewhat limited understanding of the bible.
Where does it command anyone to pray five times a day? That might be Islam (?)
Not eating shellfish was an old testament law. Those laws were clearly given to Israel, and the Bible clearly states that Jesus' death did away with the law. The same law you are referring to commanded animal sacrifices, but that is no longer law either, because Christ became the ultimate sacrifice.
Nothing in the Old Testament should be taken as law without validating against the New Testament.
Old > New - see how that works?
Furthermore, you should note that it takes a certain frame of mind, body and spirit to find enjoyment in the ways of christian life. I can certainly see how a non-believer might not find the way of christian life to be enjoyable, but that is because his heart is not there in it. Nobody said being a believer would be easy. Is that what life is about, it being easy?
Consider this:
As someone beginning an exercise routine, it can be hard to find it enjoyable (it's often painful) until you've begun to immerse yourself in the active lifestyle at which point it becomes immensely enjoyable when it becomes clear that following the workout schedule and diet (which you know are best for you) is very beneficial when you begin to see and feel real results.
Other Comments by dvophoto
35. Comment #313664 by Vaal on January 6, 2009 at 1:10 pm
22. Comment #313649 by dvophoto I'll start by discussing that I'm glad Dawkins himself admits there is no way to disprove God, so "probably" is the furthest an atheist argument can go.
How about .. Dawkins himself admits there is no way to disprove the flying spaghetti monster, so "probably" is the furthest an atheist argument can go.
Hmmm, so that is your argument? Let me say it then, the probability of God, particularly your Jewish desert God, is so astronomically remote that I have about as much chance of getting a hole in one on the crater on Mars that the Martian probe Opportunity landed in. In fact the probability of your God is so minuscule that it is improbable to an almost infinite degree, not 50/50 as you seem to think the advert implies.
Ah, the turgid and intellectual mud pit of pascals wager, how original. Let me guess, morality from God, Hitler, Stalin, God chats to you personally and you know God exists 'cos your silly mythical book tells you so. God loves you bla bla bla bla. Have I missed anything out?
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36. Comment #313665 by milt on January 6, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Yes the Jesus Diet, I've heard it's excellent.My friend lost all rational thinking in 2 months.
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37. Comment #313666 by zeroangel on January 6, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Not eating shellfish was an old testament law. Those laws were clearly given to Israel, and the Bible clearly states that Jesus' death did away with the law. The same law you are referring to commanded animal sacrifices, but that is no longer law either, because Christ became the ultimate sacrifice.
So, did "God" change his mind? Did he decide that he made a mistake or is the Bible not literally God's word?
EDIT:
dvophoto: BTW, you will find that many of us were raised Christian and managed to shrug it off. I think there are even one or two ex-pastors / ex-priests that comment here, though I can't remember their names.
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38. Comment #313667 by Diacanu on January 6, 2009 at 1:12 pm
dvophoto-
A strong Christian might tell you that he's seen God everywhere and in everything.
Yeah, I had that as a Deist.
It was was just brain chemicals set off by my own sense of intellectual self satisfaction.
I imagine thinking the zombie son of the invisible sky daddy fills one up in a similar way.
It's the same sense of heightened awareness and significance reported by users of LSD.
In my experience, the trip stories of acid droppers are exactly as boring, meaningless, and unwelcome as those of religious epiphany.
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39. Comment #313668 by Steve Zara on January 6, 2009 at 1:13 pm
Comment #313662 by dvophotoThe same law you are referring to commanded animal sacrifices, but that is no longer law either, because Christ became the ultimate sacrifice.
That isn't what Christ said: "I came not to destroy the law and the prophets".
This campaign seems to have shaken you a bit, perhaps. Excellent.
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40. Comment #313669 by amalthea on January 6, 2009 at 1:13 pm
10/10 for Ariane (she IS a babe isn't she?) and everyone who donated. I live in London, and look forward to explaining to people what it's all about. WooHoo!!!! Nice One!
A
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41. Comment #313670 by milt on January 6, 2009 at 1:13 pm
dvophotoPlease disprove the existence of Zeus or any other deity.
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42. Comment #313671 by Ian Bamlett on January 6, 2009 at 1:13 pm
Comment #313662 by dvophoto
...and the Bible clearly states...
This is where I imagine myself in a room with you all, and when dvophoto says that we all look at each other and just well.... you know... snigger
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43. Comment #313673 by Matt H. on January 6, 2009 at 1:14 pm
I also gave a few pennies to this campaign. I'm very pleased to see it launched. Other Comments by Matt H.
44. Comment #313674 by dvophoto on January 6, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Comment #313653 by Steve ZaraI wasn't talking about sensibility...I was talking about proof.
People's sensibilities vary quite a lot, wouldn't you say?
Some might say that arguing sensibility is insensible.
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45. Comment #313675 by Quetzalcoatl on January 6, 2009 at 1:16 pm
dvophoto-
That is indeed the furthest the atheist community can go as they have no proof. Saying "I've never seen God, how can he exist?" is not proof, it's a lack of knowledge based on experience.
A strong Christian might tell you that he's seen God everywhere and in everything. If an atheist who hears that and doesn't believe that God can be seen in anything and everything ( suggesting He's got to be a human like figure that we recognize as we recognize other people), then it's the fault of the atheist's misunderstanding of who the christian God is and how He is revealed to us.
We have no proof? The burden of proof is upon those that make the assertion. I simply have an absence of belief.
And consider this: how does an atheist know anything about God? By listening to the claims of religious people, and examining them to see if they are true. Consider how many claims made by the religious have been proven to be false. As our understanding of the universe increases, the the places for God to hide become fewer, and the vague the pronouncements of religious people get.
Please explain how God reveals himself to us. Is it in any way distinguishable from what we would expect to see if he were not in fact real?
I don't know a single strong christian who is NOT enjoying their life...and I know quite a few non-christians who tell me they are NOT enjoying their lives and whom have little inner-peace to show. And yes, I also know several non-christians who ARE enjoying their lives as well, i'm not suggesting it's not possible to be a non-believer and enjoy life.
So what, precisely, are you suggesting? All you seem to be saying is that you know believers and non-believers who enjoy their lives, as well as those who don't. I can say the same. This is hardly revelatory.
My problem is that this message suggests nothing more to the reader than to play a spiritual game of russian roulette.
Consider Pascal's Wager when weighing the odds of that kind of game
Ah, Pascal's Wager. Whenever this is invoked, I smile a little.
The failure of the Wager is obvious: belief cannot be faked. Do you honestly have so little respect for the intellect of your God that you believe him to be incapable of distingusihing between those who genuinely believe and those that feign belief just in case?
Besides, the Wager applies equally to every single religion there is. How are we supposed to decide which is the correct one to believe in? Can you explain what marks Christianity out as being the truest faith? And if so, then can you also explain why this is apparently not obvious to anyone who does not share your beliefs?
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46. Comment #313676 by Steve Zara on January 6, 2009 at 1:17 pm
Comment #313669 by amalthea10/10 for Ariane
Indeed!
(she IS a babe isn't she?)
There is also that handsome and distinguished fellow standing next to her - wonder who he is?
I have just noticed Ariane is a comedy writer. I hope she gets publicity because of this - she deserves it.
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47. Comment #313677 by Titania on January 6, 2009 at 1:18 pm
26. Comment #313653 by Steve Zara
Steve,
I'm not in the forest today. I'm right here. ;)
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48. Comment #313678 by Eventhorizon on January 6, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Dvophoto
Its got nothing to with our hearts not being in it and everything to do with our heads not being in it.
You seem not to have read a single argument against your position otherwise you would see - and I'm sorry to say it - the obvious falicies of your comments.
All the answers are in TGD etc - step outside the bubble my dear
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49. Comment #313681 by dvophoto on January 6, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Comment #313655 by Ian Bamlettas I said "I don't know a single strong christian who is NOT enjoying their life"
No, none of the strong christians I know are in the "christian but gay" boat. I wasn't accounting for ALL christians, just those I know personally.
And for the record, I've been in a similar situation as the young teenager you mention - back when I was 19 and suffered a near fatal stroke from a malformed artery in my brain I was born with. I made it through the situation though. I'll pray for the teenager you mention, gladly.
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50. Comment #313682 by Steve Zara on January 6, 2009 at 1:21 pm
Comment #313674 by dvophotoYou can't get proof of existence or non-existence of real things in the real world. All you get is personal experience combined with what others say and show you.
There probably isn't a God - in fact, there almost certainly isn't a God - because we just don't see him. Trying to justify belief in something just because you can't disprove its existence is a last-ditch struggle. Millennia ago people thought that they could see evidence of Gods every where. Now we have other, simpler explanations.
If you are going to make a very big claim indeed that there is a God, you had better come up with something we can actually see... otherwise it is nothing more than woodland fairies writ large.
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1. Comment #313608 by mordacious1 on January 6, 2009 at 11:42 am
What a pathetic reply.
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