Saturday, January 17, 2009 | Reason : In the News | print version

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Atheists hope (don't pray) to bring ads to Toronto

by Globe & Mail

Thanks to PiroNiro for the link.

Reposted from:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090116.watheist16/BNStory/National/home
and
http://atheistbus.ca/

JEFF GRAY
From Friday's Globe and Mail
January 16, 2009 at 4:37 AM EST

Ariane

The atheist slogan, "There is probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life," may soon be coming to subways and buses in Canada's largest city.

The Toronto-based Freethought Association of Canada, inspired by a campaign that has plastered British buses with the phrase, has contacted the private firm that handles ads on the Toronto Transit Commission to see if the message would violate any rules. Organizers plan to launch a fundraising page on the website atheistbus.ca in the next few days.

The British campaign, which has inspired similar moves in Washington, Barcelona and Madrid, has sparked complaints to the country's advertising authority and a backlash from the evangelical group Christian Voice, which has proclaimed that Britain is in "deep sin."

Here in Canada, reaction to the idea from religious groups reached by The Globe and Mail was muted.

Neil MacCarthy, a spokesman for the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Toronto, said it was difficult to comment on ads that he hasn't seen.

"The reality is that organized religion is often an easy target," he said. "... At the same time, this type of campaign would likely generate discussion and dialogue around faith. And that can be a healthy thing, as long as it is done respectfully."

The moderator of the United Church of Canada, Right Rev. David Giuliano, said he would rather see atheists say what they believe in, rather than what they are against.

But, pointing out that his church also uses advertising, he said he has some sympathy with the impetus behind the ads.

"I think most of these ads ... are responding to a version of God and Christianity that is grounded in a kind of judgment and fear and guilt," Mr. Giuliano said in an interview. "I don't believe in that God either."

Mohamed Elmasry, founder of the Canadian Islamic Congress, said he had no problem with the ads: "They have a system of belief like anybody else, and they are entitled to live with this system and also propagate it among others."

The effort to bring atheist ads to Toronto's transit system started with a Facebook group.

The website atheistbus.ca was launched this week by Chris Hammond, a first-year political science student at York University who has joined with the Freethought Association to mount a campaign.

The effort has been endorsed by Ariane Sherine, the British journalist and comedy writer who launched the London campaign.

Echoing Ms. Sherine - who said she wanted to counter London bus ads referring people to a website warning that non-Christians would roast in a "lake of fire," - Mr. Hammond, 22, said he wanted to answer ads quoting Bible verses that he had seen on TTC buses.

"There's atheists that are out there. This will show them they are not alone," Mr. Hammond said.

Organizers hope to raise at least $6,000 to buy ads on the TTC, which run from $315 for the back of a bus to $700 for a subway ad, said Katie Kish, vice-president of multimedia for the Freethought Association.

Toronto organizers can only hope - rather than pray, of course - for the reception that greeted the British campaign.

Originally, organizers there had aimed to raise £5,500, or about $10,000, to put ads on 30 London buses. Instead, they raised more than £144,000.

(The qualifier "probably" was included in the slogan both to satisfy Britain's ad regulator and scientific atheists, who reject anything that smacks of faith.)

TTC vice-chairman Joe Mihevc, a former Christian theologian who has long sat on the ad-review committee, said he would welcome the atheist ads: "What better place to have one of the key theological, philosophical debates of our time but on public transit?"

Canada’s Atheist Bus Website:
http://atheistbus.ca/

Posted: Saturday, January 17, 2009 | Permalink

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1. Comment #323008 by Rodger T on January 17, 2009 at 9:51 pm

"They have a system of belief like anybody else,

wanker

Good luck,Freethought Association of Canada, spread the word.

Other Comments by Rodger T

2. Comment #323012 by Thor25 on January 17, 2009 at 10:00 pm

Excellent news, just donated to the cause.

I'm probably as excited about the campaign as to hear the reactions from the religious groups and the usual nutters out there.

At least Canada is way more secular than the US, I'd love to see more of these campaigns down south to really stir up some attention, media, etc.

Go Canada!

Other Comments by Thor25

3. Comment #323013 by Frankus1122 on January 17, 2009 at 10:01 pm

I'm on it.

Other Comments by Frankus1122

4. Comment #323014 by Jeremy Anglesea on January 17, 2009 at 10:14 pm

Hurrah! This campaign has now truly gone global.

Other Comments by Jeremy Anglesea

5. Comment #323017 by Mayhemm on January 17, 2009 at 10:24 pm

Just put down a Benjamin myself. Come on, let's keep the bus a rollin'!

Other Comments by Mayhemm

6. Comment #323022 by Frankus1122 on January 17, 2009 at 10:36 pm

I invited a whack of people to join the Facebook group.
Although they seem to be going with the same slogan as the first 800 buses in London, I've suggested they check out the 'New Bus Campaign' thread here.

Woo Hoo!

(That wasn't a Brian thing, that was an expression of joy!)

Other Comments by Frankus1122

7. Comment #323023 by jharps on January 17, 2009 at 10:39 pm

"I think most of these ads ... are responding to a version of God and Christianity that is grounded in a kind of judgment and fear and guilt," Mr. Giuliano said in an interview. "I don't believe in that God either."

About time you updated that book of yours, Mr. Giuliano

Other Comments by jharps

8. Comment #323030 by Kit Finn on January 17, 2009 at 11:04 pm

This is brilliant - where next?

Other Comments by Kit Finn

9. Comment #323033 by Gmork on January 17, 2009 at 11:16 pm

The "atheistic slogan," thank you.

"David Giuliano, said he would rather see atheists say what they believe in, rather than what they are against."

Anything or nothing is the limit, David Giuliano, as that could be anything or nothing, and would be up to the individual who is, per definition, an atheist. That is, people who are labeled atheists agree on at least one thing. Anything else would be a start down one of many narrow roads.

Other Comments by Gmork

10. Comment #323034 by pollutedsouls on January 17, 2009 at 11:18 pm

Just donated - this is an amazing idea. I can't believe how fast this is spreading, and how much support here is! Over $10 000 in mere days. Makes me think that it might be worth trying something on my side of the country (Vancouver).

I also really quite enjoy the reaction the whole campaign has received (bad and good). I don't think it could have worked out much better!

Other Comments by pollutedsouls

11. Comment #323036 by heathen2 on January 17, 2009 at 11:20 pm

Canada seems like a secular and more tolerant society than what we have here in the States. The comments from the religious (in this article)reflect that and seem pretty mild. I can't imagine that being the case here, even in California, if the reaction to the FFRF billboards is any indication.

Other Comments by heathen2

12. Comment #323046 by elbuho on January 18, 2009 at 12:02 am

"The moderator of the United Church of Canada, Right Rev. David Giuliano, said he would rather see atheists say what they believe in, rather than what they are against."

I believe in living my life free from the influence of all-pervasive and all-intrusive religion. I think the ad phrase embodies that pretty well Mr Giuliano.

Other Comments by elbuho

13. Comment #323047 by DalaiDrivel on January 18, 2009 at 12:06 am

I have just donated.

I feel like more of a patriot than I have ever been, and I am proud.

pollutedsouls,

I live in Vancouver as well. I have donated partly in the hope that it will spread cross-country, bearing in mind though, that it still must cross the prairie bible-belt first.

Other Comments by DalaiDrivel

14. Comment #323052 by HeyBishop on January 18, 2009 at 12:21 am

Canada is indeed a rather secular country. Technically/legally speaking we don’t have a separation of church and state, but we do in practice. Toronto (where I live) is considered the most multi-cultural city in the world. As of last year over 50% of Torontonians were born outside of Canada. We like to call it a “cultural mosaic”, all these cultural and religious backgrounds thrown together to live, work, play and get along. It’s almost as if everyone is equally a minority here (granted, I’m a white male – so what do I really know about being a minority?).
I have a hunch that very many second generation Canadians are atheists. With all these people together from so many backgrounds you can’t help but see how we’re all just the same. What makes his religion right and yours wrong? Almost every one of my peers are non-religious. Though maybe not all atheists, but certainly non-religious. There just isn’t much room for a god in Toronto, it would seem.
Where am I going with this? Well, I guess what I’m getting at is of all the cities in the world to jump on board the atheist bus campaign trail, Toronto might be the easiest place to accomplish it. But for the same reasons it’s the least important place to do it. We almost don’t need it here. Don’t get me wrong: I’ll be overjoyed to see ads on the TTC. I really will, I’ll get a kick out of it. I think many many people will share the viewpoint of the message. Everyone else will be very tolerant of the message... as we Torontonians are so accustomed to be. So tolerant, that I wonder how impactful the message will be.

Other Comments by HeyBishop

15. Comment #323065 by adk on January 18, 2009 at 1:16 am

Bring them to Victoria, too!

Other Comments by adk

16. Comment #323068 by Szymanowski on January 18, 2009 at 1:49 am

The Toronto-based Freethought Association of Canada, inspired by a campaign that has plastered British buses with the phrase

It's just southern English buses at the moment...

Other Comments by Szymanowski

17. Comment #323070 by Mayhemm on January 18, 2009 at 1:57 am

Comment #323047 by DalaiDrivel on January 18, 2009 at 12:06 am

I have just donated.

I feel like more of a patriot than I have ever been, and I am proud.

pollutedsouls,

I live in Vancouver as well. I have donated partly in the hope that it will spread cross-country, bearing in mind though, that it still must cross the prairie bible-belt first.

Likewise, DD. I've never donated to a political party, but I'm damned well supporting this campaign!

And hey, it could be worse. At least you don't live in the prairie bible-belt...like me. ; (

Other Comments by Mayhemm

18. Comment #323071 by pollutedsouls on January 18, 2009 at 2:08 am

HeyBishop - you are right that Toronto (and Canada in general, though the prairies slightly lesson the overall consensus) are fairly secular. However, I posted this on the campaign website, and it seems appropriate:

"Of course, we are lucky that Canada is a much more secular country then much of the world. Even the comments from the religious in the Globe article were very tamed and thoughtful. However, the discussion of religion must be brought to the surface, and these adds are perfect at consciousness raising."

Even if most people may be secular, and tolerant, only good can come out of raising the issue for conversation.

DD and ask - Perhaps there is a group out here were could contact to get the ball rolling? I'm a little ashamed to admit that I don't really have an idea myself... though I am sure google would contain the answers!

Other Comments by pollutedsouls

19. Comment #323073 by nalfeshnee on January 18, 2009 at 2:09 am

NO TRUE SCOTSMAN.

Other Comments by nalfeshnee

20. Comment #323074 by Titus on January 18, 2009 at 2:11 am

HeyBishop

A lot off people said that about the campaign in the UK. However here, in the pleasant cathedral city of Lincoln last Friday, we had a fundie shouting in the high street that atheists are worse than peodophiles and murderers.
If the campaign brings fucktards like him out of the woodwork maybe, just maybe, decent people will begin to think about the reasonableness of what we're saying compared to the idiocy and bile of religious dogma.

Other Comments by Titus

21. Comment #323076 by pollutedsouls on January 18, 2009 at 2:15 am

Titus - that is what I find so amazing and wonderful about this campaign. The "evil" atheists say something as simple and harmless as "there is probably no god" and holy hell breaks loose. I think that is why the word probably us so effective. When you start to compare the rational viewpoint of "well, based on everything we know about the physical world, there is probably no god" with the absolute statements and threatening (often discretely) messages of many religious groups, I think (hope?) many people will final start to examine they way they view religion and its place in our society.

Other Comments by pollutedsouls

22. Comment #323077 by epeeist on January 18, 2009 at 2:17 am

Comment #323074 by Titus:

However here, in the pleasant cathedral city of Lincoln last Friday, we had a fundie shouting in the high street that atheists are worse than peodophiles and murderers.

Have a glance at http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/16/atheism-christian-advertisements-buses?commentpage=9 and look for "freddinter"

Then go to the next page and see how he pillories a poor innocent poster.

EDIT: Hmm, they seem to have deleted the comment, it read

To epeeist - Why don't you go and lie down in front of Regent's Park Mosque? I hear that they need a new doormat, and I'm sure you'll do the job perfectly. Just don't forget to lick the dirt from between the toe-nails of the imam as he steps onto your mouth. And don't deliberately ignore my argument. If you attacked Islam in the way that you attack Christianity here in any Islamic country you'd be doused in
petrol and burned to death in two seconds flat. Christians won't do that to you, and yet it's them that you hate the most, you pussy. Why
don't you voice your atheist convictions in Saudi Arabia or Iran or Sudan? Christians spread the Gospel in those countries and they risk
their lives for what they believe in, often getting burned, raped, and massacred merely for being in possession of a Bible. So shut the fuck
up about Christianity, grow some balls, and say something about Islam. I dare you. You wimp.

Other Comments by epeeist

23. Comment #323078 by scottishgeologist on January 18, 2009 at 2:19 am

HeyBishop

Your comments are interesting - good to hear! Whenever I hear the name "Toronto" and religion mentioned, it is usually in the context of the so called "Toronto Blessing" and TACF.

From what you are saying, it sounds like these people have had minimal impact in Toronto itself, but I suppose it is what they have exported elsewhere that maybe counts. How influential has it been on the city of Toronto itself'

After all, in the UK, the TB had a huge influence on Nicky Gumbel:

At about 11:30 a.m. on May 24, 1994, Eleanor Mumford, assistant pastor of the South-West London Vineyard and wife of John Mumford (pastor of South-West London Vineyard and overseer of the Vineyard Churches in Britain) met with a group of friends, many of whom were leaders of other churches, to describe her recent visit to the Toronto Airport Vineyard. As she explained her remarkable experiences of the power of God and prayed for them to be filled with the Holy Spirit, everyone was profoundly affected. Nicky Gumbel, Curate of Holy Trinity Brompton, suddenly realized that he was very late for a staff meeting at his own church, and rushed back from this meeting with his wife, Pippa, to HTB church office in South Kensington. The meeting was getting ready to adjourn, so he apologized and spoke briefly about what had happened. He was then asked to pray the concluding prayer. He asked the Holy Spirit to fill everyone in the room. According to the church newspaper, "HTB in Focus," 12 June 1994:

The effect was instantaneous. People fell to the ground again and again. There were remarkable scenes as the Holy Spirit touched all those present in ways few had ever experienced or seen. Staff members walking past the room were also affected. Two hours later some of those present went to tell others in different offices and prayed with them where they found them. They too were powerfully affected by the Holy Spirit -- many falling to the ground. Prayer was still continuing after 5 pm.

(from: http://www.grmi.org/Richard_Riss/history/htb.html )

Which actually rather neatly brings us full circle. Nicky Gumble of course is "Mr Alpha Course" whose posters are plastered all over the place!!!

:-))
SG

Other Comments by scottishgeologist

24. Comment #323079 by Bonzai on January 18, 2009 at 2:20 am

Sorry to pour cold water on your enthusiasm. I am not sure what such a campaign may achieve in Toronto.

The purpose of the bus campaign is to generate debate and some controversies. However, judging from the article the local religious leaders are not hostile or defensive to the atheist bus at all, in fact they appear to welcome the idea as it would add to diversity! This is a very effective way to neutralize the initiative. When it fails to be provocative, the ad is just tacky and stupid.

We have to cater our message to the local sensibility. It is no good to import ideas from other places which may not apply to the local situation.

Canada in general, and Toronto in particular, is by and large a very secular society. Politicians who flaunt their faith invariably go down to defeat in elections,--except in some back water rural areas. In our last provincial election, the Conservatives were defeated in an almost landslide because they floated the idea of funding faith schools. They stood a good chance of winning initially but their campaign sunk like a rock after the idea was brought up.

No, we are not like the U.S. or the U.K. Canadians are very cool and laid back, live and let live people. Many Canadian churches actually support same sex marriage and send represntatives to march on gay pride parade. Toronto is the most culturally diverse and secular city in Canada if not the world. While there are still wrinkles to iron out, we don't need to wave our willies,--to use Dawkins' phrase in another thread,--at the religious indiscriminately. If we come across as too aggressive it may backfire.

We need a strategy that is made for our reality, imported ideas are not always appropiate.

EDIT: I have seen only one religion to have ever put out big signs on the bodies of public vehicles as a way of advertisment, it was the FaLun Gong with their big street car ads a few years ago. The Churches here don't do buses or street cars.

Other Comments by Bonzai

25. Comment #323082 by scottishgeologist on January 18, 2009 at 2:23 am

Epeeist

Just followed that link you gave. Like your comment!

Kudos, and a thumbs up!

:-))))))
SG

Other Comments by scottishgeologist

26. Comment #323090 by Chris Davis on January 18, 2009 at 2:45 am

Like many others here, it seems, I was struck by:

The moderator of the United Church of Canada, Right Rev. David Giuliano, said he would rather see atheists say what they believe in, rather than what they are against.

Yeah, I bet you would, Dave. Then you could throw shit at it, right?

Unfortunately being an atheist is entirely about being 'against' the god hypothesis. No 'for' is implied. If you need something to condemn, try the old theory that in the absence of divine guidance we have no morals. Good luck with that.

Other Comments by Chris Davis

27. Comment #323091 by Bonzai on January 18, 2009 at 2:50 am

Chris Davis

Yeah, I bet you would, Dave. Then you could throw shit at it, right?

I don't think that was his intention. Sure, he didn't understand atheism just means the absence of religious beliefs, but I don't think he was looking for a "battle of the faiths".

The United Church of Canada doesn't do such thing, it is a very secular, progressive Church, known sometimes as the "anything goes" Church.

Other Comments by Bonzai

28. Comment #323097 by rod-the-farmer on January 18, 2009 at 3:02 am

I read the mention of a "Toronto area vineyard" with some astonishment. I lived near the airport for many years, and I NEVER heard of a vineyard. Then I googled it, and found this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Airport_Christian_Fellowship

which you really must read to have a laugh for the day. Not content with the usual speaking in tongues, rolling around on the floor, etc., they claim dental miracles, where fillings have been changed to gold. You could not make this stuff up.

Then there is this article about the Toronto Airport Blessing, which is too funny for words.

http://www.bible-infonet.org/ff/articles/denominations/112_08_14.htm

Other Comments by rod-the-farmer

29. Comment #323100 by Bonzai on January 18, 2009 at 3:20 am

epeeist

EDIT: Hmm, they seem to have deleted the comment, it read..

That is actually quite a hilarious rant.

Other Comments by Bonzai

30. Comment #323101 by Thor25 on January 18, 2009 at 3:22 am

A good article on Faith Based School funding in Canada:

http://www.cbc.ca/ontariovotes2007/features/features-faith.html

Other Comments by Thor25

31. Comment #323104 by Bonzai on January 18, 2009 at 3:25 am

We don't need the atheist bus in Toronto.

But I think it would be a superb idea to bring it to Edmonton or Calgary, anywhere in Alberta. Alberta is Texas of the North, where men walk with dinosaurs (or behaving like dinosaurs) and creationism strives. It is an anomaly in Canada.

Other Comments by Bonzai

32. Comment #323105 by scottishgeologist on January 18, 2009 at 3:27 am

Rod-the-farmer

Hi! I mentioned the TACF earler. Absolutely fascinating to read that you had never heard of it. Esp as you lived near the airport

I think a lot of these groups are very good at hyping themselves up among other religites. Their effect on other people however seems to be minimal at times

I think the Alpha course falls into this category - Billy mentioned its "lack of general impact" either on his own blog or maybe over here.

Speaking of charismatic / pentecostal matters, next year will see some sort of event to clebrate 100 years of lunacy since the "Azusa Street Revival" that birthed modern day pentecostalism and charismania:

US Pentecostal, Charismatic leaders plan landmark gathering:

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/us.pentecostal.charismatic.leaders.plan.landmark.gathering/22281.htm

For a quick re-run through this stuff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azusa_Street_Revival

Some interesting comments from other preachers at the time:

Scholarly preachers spoke harshly of the revival meetings; such as R. A. Torrey who declared that this new Pentecostal movement was "emphatically not of God, and founded by a Sodomite." G. Campbell Morgan called it, "the last vomit of Satan." Harry Ironside said it was "disgusting ... delusions and insanities

Note in particular the word "delusions".......

:-)))))))
SG

Other Comments by scottishgeologist

33. Comment #323107 by rod-the-farmer on January 18, 2009 at 3:31 am

Sorry, scottishgeologist. I have rather made it a point NOT to follow any religious news, in the active sense. If I happen to come across it, OK, but I don't go searching this stuff out. I DO read the paper right through, every day, and that included the Toronto Star, when I lived in the Toronto area. So there is about 40 years of that. Why are you surprised ? Was this a big deal where you reside, such that you were aware of it yet I was not ?

Other Comments by rod-the-farmer

34. Comment #323111 by Peacebeuponme on January 18, 2009 at 3:39 am

At TACF Revival services, worshippers have exhibited unusual behaviours that they attribute to an encounter with God and the “fire of the Holy Spirit”. The most common described behaviours include laughter (or “holy laughter”), weeping, deep bowing, shaking, 'drunkenness', falling to the floor under the Holy Spirit's power (aka “slain in the Spirit”) and speaking in tongues. Other less common behaviours include manifestations that resembled roaring like lions and crying like an eagle. (See Derek Prince commentary). At one time the TACF website described it thus: “The Toronto Blessing is a transferable anointing. In its most visible form it overcomes worshippers with outbreaks of laughter, weeping, groaning, shaking, falling, 'drunkenness,' and even behaviours that have been described as a 'cross between a jungle and a farmyard.'"

So these people are keen for a bit of improv. I suspect it can easily become comfortable to let yourself go in this manner when you see everyone else doing so.

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

35. Comment #323112 by scottishgeologist on January 18, 2009 at 3:40 am

Rod-the-farmer

I heard about the "Toronto Blessing" first of all on a TV news item here in the UK - it was some church in the south of England that had "got the blessing" in a big way (It wasnt Holy Trinity Brompton, some other church)

Also, as I was in those days a believer (well sort of, never could get the doubts out and the absolute certainties in...) it was certainly a common conversation point , certainly among evangelicals.

The growth of the Alpha Course also led to a greater knowledge of TACF and the TB. Most of the Christians that I hung out with thought they were all nuts. Its very divisive among Christians.

What could be interesting, would be to find out how many people, who dont "go to church" are actually aware of these things. Maybe it is a lot fewer than we think

Incidentally, in the UK, the only churches that are showing any signs of growth, in any real sense are charismatic. The mainstream , traditional ones are in decline.

:-))
SG

Other Comments by scottishgeologist

36. Comment #323118 by ridelo on January 18, 2009 at 3:46 am

"David Giuliano, said he would rather see atheists say what they believe in, rather than what they are against."

Exempli gratia: I've never been in America but I believe it exists. Have some evidence to back up that claim.

Other Comments by ridelo

37. Comment #323121 by gossy on January 18, 2009 at 4:07 am

"Neil MacCarthy, a spokesman for the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Toronto, said it was difficult to comment on ads that he hasn't seen."

But somehow manages to comment on a god he hasn't seen...

Other Comments by gossy

38. Comment #323123 by Titus on January 18, 2009 at 4:13 am

Epeeist

Good grief!
I rather think that freddinter is a very disturbed individual who needs help. A bunch of psychiatrists and a padded cell come to mind.
The psychology of believers fascinates me. The more I read the more convinced I become that attachment to religion in any form (and I include paganism, new age nonsense, alternative medicine etc) stems from a combination of deep psychological insecurities and the 'hit' from brain chemicals induced from a sense of belonging; rather like being in love. When we work out the mechanisms involved we'll be a lot closer to eliminating irrationality.
I think the work that Sam Harris and others are doing in this field could bare great fruit.

Other Comments by Titus

39. Comment #323131 by Logicel on January 18, 2009 at 4:34 am

Epeeist, it seems that freddinter has a bad case of fatwa envy:

http://forknowledge.wordpress.com/2008/09/03/fatwa-envy/

The type of people who need Christianity to prove their morality to themselves get very un-Christian (Christ would be turning in his grave if he wasn't resurrected) when their imagined moral monopoly is challenged. For them, Christianity is a lovely, wonderful, and brave concept and demands to be immune from criticism simply because Christianity is so moral and good. When their taut tautological line is snapped, they get nasty and never the wiser how they are the worst publicity for their so-called moral and loving Christian faith.

Other Comments by Logicel

40. Comment #323162 by superatheist on January 18, 2009 at 5:57 am

Come on Guys.
It is an excellent idea, you should do it.

Other Comments by superatheist

41. Comment #323169 by Raiko on January 18, 2009 at 6:22 am

Wrong.

Also, Atheists should say what they believe in, rather than what they're against?

How is that even possible when atheism means you don't believe in God?! Why is that so hard to get into people's thick skulls?

Other Comments by Raiko

42. Comment #323173 by Roland_F on January 18, 2009 at 6:28 am

Starting the bus campaign to anyway secular Toronto seems to be like "bringing owls to Athens" .

About hate mails freddinter : similar like all the Christian hate mails in the FSM (church of the flying spaghetti monster), or all the hundreds of death threats and hate mails Pat Condell is receiving frequently for being critical against religion.
Also some poster SKB here on the RD.net seems to be delighted with his fantasy dreams that atheist will roast eternally in hell, these self-alleged peaceful Christians aren’t that different from the Islamofascist at all.
The sin and death focused misery cults of religiots seems to have a problem with enjoying the one and only life we have, all suffering from their self inflicted sin focused lowlife, just waiting for a better afterlife and just bearing all self-inflicted hardship of daily prayer and a sin-phobia for every thought, with the hope to avoid eternal hellfire.

This seems to be the red line running through all religiots rants, theodicy’s of theist philosophers apology for child rapists as good because the child victim goes earlier to heaven, like the disgust of Hedonism from Scottish hate preacher D.A. Robertson all the way to the Islamic jihadist who joke about ‘Westerners’ who love life whereas God fearing Islamists love their dead to come home to Allah.

That’s why the advertised slogan “start enjoy your life” stir up angry reactions only from the radical proponents of a sin focused misery cult and not from moderates.

Other Comments by Roland_F

43. Comment #323180 by Frankus1122 on January 18, 2009 at 6:46 am

Bonzai,

While there are still wrinkles to iron out, we don't need to wave our willies,--to use Dawkins' phrase in another thread,--at the religious indiscriminately.

Except during the Gay Pride Parade. ;)

I am for this. As you said we don't really need it but because it is Toronto (the Centre of the Universe) the national news media will cover it and it will spread to the rest of the country.
However, Toronto is despised by the rest of the country. It may give them another thing to hate us for.
But it gets them talking.

Toronto is as Hey Bishop described. If the campaign does have very little impact here then this too is a message, albeit a subtle one. Toronto is a good place to live (he says with some doubt looking out the window at the white snow piling up which will soon turn to a grey slushy mess). It has many many problems but there are good things here. One of the good things is the tolerance people show for people as people.
No religion required.

I am still pushing for my favourite:

Without God, Life is Everything.

Other Comments by Frankus1122

44. Comment #323181 by SharonMcT on January 18, 2009 at 6:48 am

I live in Alberta, and I just donated. The *bible belt* is not only Alberta. It extends from inland BC all the way through Manitoba in various pockets and places.

Having the bus campaign in Toronto is great. The British atheist bus campaign made news in every paper here in Edmonton. Another campaign directly in Canada will keep the consciousness-raising going.

Other Comments by SharonMcT

45. Comment #323182 by APPlet on January 18, 2009 at 6:55 am

I am quite pleased that my neighbouring "town" of Toronto is going ahead with the bus advert program. I just sent in my donation, as of Sunday morning we are over $10K.

Rod-the-Farmer, your post brought back a memory for me. Many years ago after hearing about the Toronto Blessing and specifically their members experiencing "extreme immobility" in the throes of extascy. I used this idea as a basis for a short story(a CBC entry)called "The Adiaphorism of Khalie". Basically about a young girl witnessing her brother having one of these episodes and the two life paths (faith or scepticism)one could follow after witnessing such an event. I shortly had to find real work as my writing skills were certainly not going to put bread on the table!
Thanks for the memory poke though, I will have to look that chestnut of a story up.

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46. Comment #323183 by Nails on January 18, 2009 at 6:55 am

It's just southern English buses at the moment...

I saw one in York in Tuesday evening - a welcome suprise I might add.

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47. Comment #323184 by epeeist on January 18, 2009 at 6:58 am

Comment #323123 by Titus:

I rather think that freddinter is a very disturbed individual who needs help. A bunch of psychiatrists and a padded cell come to mind.

Have your read any of jgirolamo's posts on the Does Religion Make You Nice? thread?

Not as off the wall as this guy but still a few currants short of a teacake. And have a glance at the last post in http://richarddawkins.net/theUgly

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48. Comment #323194 by Isaksson on January 18, 2009 at 7:16 am

One more reason I like Canada. (Refering to secularism and all that.)

Ive always said, that Canada is very mush like my own country, Sweden, and this still holds out too be true. (In many ways even better) I wish that I some day have the opertunity to visit. I have hundreds, if not thousands of reason to want to have a look around over there. A couple of hundred reasons can be summed up by the word Geography, but most would end up in the Biology collumn. (well, at least the part of biology that refers to the female persuation of our species)

This said, I wish you all luck with this endevour.
That little cute lady that started all of this should be very, VERY proud indeed!

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49. Comment #323195 by mdowe on January 18, 2009 at 7:21 am

I'm glad to see the bus campaign come to Canada. I'd tend to agree Canadians are a pretty secular lot, but more in the sense that we tend to prefer people keep their personal beliefs personal. Many 'secular' Canadians are probably Christians. I think I've read around 20% are totally religion-free.

Interestingly enough, I've observed that minor officials are often the pushiest bastards in the whole bloody country when it comes to forcing their personal beliefs on everyone else. Our Courts have to be employed periodically to keep them in line.

The faith-based school thing in Canada is an anachronism that stems back to agreements reached before the birth of the country. Religious demographics have changed a great deal since then, but the Catholic church never willingly lets go of earthly power. Still, I expect their days of getting public funds to indoctrinate children anywhere in Canada are probably numbered. But judging by the statement, "There's atheists that ...", perhaps we should first worry about the teaching of grammar in our public schools. I did not receive a single lesson in English grammar until my university English course (too little, too late), and I see things haven't improved since then.

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50. Comment #323216 by posiedon on January 18, 2009 at 8:11 am

#It's just southern English buses at the moment..#

There are buses running in Leeds, Manchester, Edinburgh, and Glasgow, to name a few.
The ones in Scotland are on Stagecoach buses, yep! the company that's owned by the Christian nutjob Brian Souter, oh the joy. :-)

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