Tuesday, January 27, 2009 | Reason : In the News | print version

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Attenborough reveals creationist hate mail for not crediting God

by Guardian

Thanks to Max for the link.

Reposted from:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/27/david-attenborough-science

Sir David Attenborough has revealed that he receives hate mail from viewers for failing to credit God in his documentaries. In an interview with this week's Radio Times about his latest documentary, on Charles Darwin and natural selection, the broadcaster said: "They tell me to burn in hell and good riddance."

Telling the magazine that he was asked why he did not give "credit" to God, Attenborough added: "They always mean beautiful things like hummingbirds. I always reply by saying that I think of a little child in east Africa with a worm burrowing through his eyeball. The worm cannot live in any other way, except by burrowing through eyeballs. I find that hard to reconcile with the notion of a divine and benevolent creator."

Attenborough went further in his opposition to creationism, saying it was "terrible" when it was taught alongside evolution as an alternative perspective. "It's like saying that two and two equals four, but if you wish to believe it, it could also be five ... Evolution is not a theory; it is a fact, every bit as much as the historical fact that William the Conqueror landed in 1066."

Attenborough, who attended the Wyggeston Grammar School for Boys in Leicester in the 1930s, said he was astonished at manifestations of Christian faith.

"It never really occurred to me to believe in God - and I had nothing to rebel against, my parents told me nothing whatsoever. But I do remember looking at my headmaster delivering a sermon, a classicist, extremely clever ... and thinking, he can't really believe all that, can he? How incredible!"

In 2002, Attenborough joined an effort by clerics and scientists to oppose the inclusion of creationism in the curriculum of state-funded independent schools receiving private sponsorship, such as the Emmanuel Schools Foundation.

Also see:
http://uk.tv.yahoo.com/blog/article/104744/

Posted: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 | Permalink

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1. Comment #328340 by EnlitnD99 on January 27, 2009 at 9:48 am

That is one of the best arguments against creationism I've ever heard! "The worm cannot live in any other way, except by burrowing through eyeballs." - He's absolutely right; how can anyone know that and believe a loving God created all creatures.

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2. Comment #328343 by mbannonb on January 27, 2009 at 9:49 am

I also liked, "It's like saying that two and two equals four, but if you wish to believe it, it could also be five"!

Other Comments by mbannonb

3. Comment #328346 by CaptainMandate on January 27, 2009 at 9:51 am

how anyone can send hatemail to David attenborough is beyond me. sorry i think i said the same in another thread but I hope it gains them all the publicity they deserve

maybe he could dub in a few "thanks to god" over scenes of some of the nastier little things about.

Exactly why he's getting picked on is bizarre

surely, these cretinists should be arguing he should be on TV saying none of it is true!

Other Comments by CaptainMandate

4. Comment #328348 by Prankster on January 27, 2009 at 9:54 am

Typical xtian behaviour-If I was Sir David,I'd give them the reply that Bill Hicks gave his Christian detractors; "then forgive me"

What a wonderful mindset these people have, threatening fire and brimstone and damnation on someone who won't credit 'im upstairs (on the assumption there's actually a god anyway) with the glory of creation-bunch of tossers!

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5. Comment #328350 by AllanW on January 27, 2009 at 9:55 am

It's really positive that someone as loved and respected as Attenborough is coming out and saying these things so unequivocally.

As for sending hate mail to him, that tells you all you need to know about the people who espouse the 'loving and peaceful' religion they follow like sheep.

Cue the 'No True Scotsman' defenses ...

Other Comments by AllanW

6. Comment #328353 by decius on January 27, 2009 at 9:57 am

Comment #328350 by AllanW

He has been previously on record saying that. Once in a panel with Richard (for the BBC, if I'm not mistaken).

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7. Comment #328356 by Shergar on January 27, 2009 at 10:05 am

David Attenborough is a personal hero. He has devoted his life to educating the public and documenting the real wonders of the natural world.

It is incredible that creationist fantasists find it necessary to communicate their idiotic beliefs to this great man.

I'm sure he has no trouble dismissing their superstitious twaddle with the contempt it deserves.

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8. Comment #328357 by phil rimmer on January 27, 2009 at 10:06 am

Comment #328350 by AllanW

A Scotsman wishing to glory in his Scottishness must be prepared to police the Brand, and whilst Scotsmen often do, Christians don't seem inclined to police theirs.

Why is that?

Other Comments by phil rimmer

9. Comment #328363 by Bruno on January 27, 2009 at 10:15 am

Does anyone have any information on Sir David's upcoming TV program on Darwin (mentioned in the article)?

Other Comments by Bruno

10. Comment #328370 by Tzsak on January 27, 2009 at 10:31 am

But Mr Attenborough, if there weren't worms to live in our eyeballs we wouldn't have freewill as God intended!

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11. Comment #328371 by Apathy personified on January 27, 2009 at 10:32 am

If god is so powerful and beyond human comprehension - why do his most fervent igors continue to assume he's very vain?

It's a pity he has to deal with these letters - I hope he puts the paper the letters were written on to some good use and recycles them without a second thought.

extremely clever ... and thinking, he can't really believe all that, can he? How incredible!"

This is my reaction to a lot of people who say the most reasonable and intelligent things....until religion is brought up. They then turn their mind onto back-up power and recite the same old myths and non - answers.

Other Comments by Apathy personified

12. Comment #328375 by root2squared on January 27, 2009 at 10:43 am

Isn't it fascinating that even when watching the amazing wonderful things occurring in nature, these cretins' minds keep thinking about their stupid imaginary friend?

I mean even a single cell is so much more complex, fascinating, and beautiful than all of the world's religions put together.

I'm beginning to think more and more that religion is just being lazy. It is much harder to observe and understand things through science than to simply make something up in your mind.

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13. Comment #328377 by Verylee on January 27, 2009 at 10:45 am

What great publicity!
I nearly suggested having a David Attenborough quote for the "Atheist" buses as he is soooo revered in Britain...there were so many other ideas flying around, I dropped it.

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14. Comment #328379 by Drool on January 27, 2009 at 10:48 am

@Bruno - It's part of the BBC's The Genius of Evolution series. Attenborough's episode airs 1st Feb:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/darwin

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15. Comment #328380 by ericcolumba on January 27, 2009 at 10:48 am

Why still no news article about Geert Wilders?

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16. Comment #328381 by watcher_of_the_skies on January 27, 2009 at 10:48 am

I was disgusted to read that David Attenborough of all people had received hate mail.

And what a fabulous analogy:

"It's like saying that two and two equals four, but if you wish to believe it, it could also be five"

Our next bus slogan right there.

Other Comments by watcher_of_the_skies

17. Comment #328382 by heafnerj on January 27, 2009 at 10:50 am

Attenborough went further in his opposition to creationism, saying it was "terrible" when it was taught alongside evolution as an alternative perspective. "It's like saying that two and two equals four, but if you wish to believe it, it could also be five ... Evolution is not a theory; it is a fact, every bit as much as the historical fact that William the Conqueror landed in 1066."

Once again, we have the terminology problem and the word "theory." It's saddening to see Sir Attenborough using the word incorrectly. He should use "hypothesis" in this context. Scientists and those who deliver classroom instruction in science are the only ones who can fix this problem, but from my perspective as a faculty member there is no intent to do so. Thus, we become part of the problem.

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18. Comment #328384 by andreab on January 27, 2009 at 10:53 am

When they talk about God's little creatures I like to think of the floor maggot. It's a creature common in the Congo where many people and animals sleep on the floor.

It's a puffy white little maggot which wriggles around sniffing for carbon dioxide expelled by a sleeping, warm blooded creature and homes in on the source of the warm breath.
It then climbs inside the mouth where it bites the very thin and delicate skin inside the lips and drinks the blood of the sleeper without waking them.
When it's nice and full it heaves itself away again, leaving the victim with mouth sores.

It's a creature which has taken great advantage of the huge numbers of humans and their animals with suitable soil nearby for egg-laying and is very specialised in it's diet.

What kind of god would create a floor maggot?

ref http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congo_floor_maggot

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19. Comment #328386 by jesusmasterbated on January 27, 2009 at 10:53 am

good to know they all aren't hiding out here in America. Perhaps he should email them back informing them of their impending return to the dirt where they can decompose, fertilize the soil, help a tree grow, be turned into paper, and have one of Dawkins' books printed on it. finally they will have accomplished something useful!

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20. Comment #328390 by root2squared on January 27, 2009 at 11:02 am

19. Comment #328386 by jesusmasterbated

Lol!

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21. Comment #328393 by SteveN on January 27, 2009 at 11:06 am

I, too, was delighted to see a similar article in today's telegraph (I even, for the first time, sent the link to the Admin, but it seems Max beat me to it). This is obviously the best publicity for 'our side' that one could wish for. Sir David is one of the most beloved and respected of TV personalities in the UK and having him speak so publicly about the fact of evolution will certainly set quite a few fence-sitters thinking. Having the religious nuts sending him hate-mail as well is just so perfect.

SteveN

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22. Comment #328394 by Vaal on January 27, 2009 at 11:07 am

"It never really occurred to me to believe in God - and I had nothing to rebel against, my parents told me nothing whatsoever. But I do remember looking at my headmaster delivering a sermon, a classicist, extremely clever ... and thinking, he can't really believe all that, can he? How incredible!"

That is exactly how I have always felt, even when in church listening to the preachers waffling their tedious guff. I used to look around at the adults and think, "they don't really believe this, surely?"

I think it encapsulates how many of us feel when we are engaging intelligent theists on this site, even, Zeus forbid, David Robertson. I can never get my head around how they persuade themselves to believe in such childish nonsense, yet they are not stupid, they just seem to ignore what they don't want to believe, and compartmentalize it.

Yes, it is good seeing Sir David Attenborough coming out in bewilderment that evolution is denied so strenuously by the religiously credulous and the poorly educated. Threatening the likes of Sir David with Hell and damnation is hardly doing the theists cause any good, surely even they realise that?

I would also like to see some Muslim scholars coming out and making TV series about evolution, if there is such a being? It would counteract the growing bedrock of Islamic denial endemic in this country, and growing throughout the world. It is a serious threat to our education system, and we need as many credible allies as possible to counter the turgid propaganda vomited by the likes of Adnan Oktar.

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23. Comment #328395 by evotruth on January 27, 2009 at 11:10 am

How is it possible for people to send hate mail to SIR David Attenborough? He should expose their letters..

I once asked a guy on youtube to read "The Blind Watchmaker" and he responded with this little love letter...

"have you ever considered killing yourself? you really should, since there is no reason that a pathetic maggot such as yourself should bother living in this world. if you die right now, will anyone care, probably not. you are a living proof that god is not perfect, when god created you, it was the biggest mistake in history. you are the result of god's one and only failure, so after all, there is no reason for you to live. i hope you die on the nearest tuesday, wich will be tomorrow"

We should set a page up with all creationist hate mail in order to expose the religion/morals connection!

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24. Comment #328396 by severalspeciesof on January 27, 2009 at 11:16 am

19. Comment #328386 by jesusmasterbated

Perhaps he should email them back informing them of their impending return to the dirt where they can decompose, fertilize the soil, help a tree grow, be turned into paper, and have one of Dawkins' books printed on it. finally they will have accomplished something useful!

Funny, I just heard that a while back (from where, I do not remember) only it was spouted from a christian and it ended with 'printed into a Bible' with the person at the beginning an atheist...

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25. Comment #328402 by SteveN on January 27, 2009 at 11:24 am

As was almost immediately pointed out at Talk:Origins and at Pharyngula, Sir David's comment about the worm burrowing into children's eyes brings to mind the great Monty Python song 'All Things Dull and Ugly' sung to the tune of 'All Things Bright and Beautiful':

All things dull and ugly,
All creatures short and squat,
All things rude and nasty,
The Lord God made the lot.
Each little snake that poisons,
Each little wasp that stings,
He made their brutish venom,
He made their horrid wings.
All things sick and cancerous,
All evil great and small,
All things foul and dangerous,
The Lord God made them all.
Each nasty little hornet,
Each beastly little squid,
Who made the spiky urchin?
Who made the sharks? He did.
All things scabbed and ulcerous,
All pox both great and small,
Putrid, foul and gangrenous,
The Lord God made them all.

Excellent!

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26. Comment #328406 by brainsys on January 27, 2009 at 11:27 am

I am a bit disappointed at gratuitous remarks here associating christians with David's hate mail. Most UK christians would be as disgusted with it as any atheist.

These are nutters (like the CV people) who just happen to be christians, muslims or whatever. Cluelessness and nastyness would emanate from them if their cause was for anything else (like the ALF).

Maybe the nutters have a bigger grip on religion in the US than here. However we are not going to get anywhere challenging religionists that think they are rational if we take this simplistic approach.

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27. Comment #328414 by root2squared on January 27, 2009 at 11:45 am

Brainsys

Well, who defines who are the real Christians? The reasonable claim the fundies are wrong and the fundies claim the moderates are wrong. Clearly the posters here are referring to the christians who sent in the hate mail. And they are Christians, aren't they?

In any case the religious need thicker skins.

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28. Comment #328417 by alexo on January 27, 2009 at 11:46 am

Comment #328402 by SteveN

Nice one Steve, thanks for reminding me of this humorous little ditty.

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29. Comment #328421 by black wolf on January 27, 2009 at 11:55 am

Comment #328382 by heafnerj

Once again, we have the terminology problem and the word "theory." It's saddening to see Sir Attenborough using the word incorrectly. He should use "hypothesis" in this context.

I think he is using the term correctly here. The Theory of Evolution (by mutation and natural selection) is a theory. Evolution is a fact. William the Conqueror lands - fact. William wore green boots and had five servants - hypothesis. William's biographical data and works as a whole - theory (Not a great analogy to natural sciences anyway, but just what came to mind now).

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30. Comment #328423 by andreab on January 27, 2009 at 11:56 am

to evotruth. Read the lovely sentiments sent to Pat Condell on his page here
http://www.patcondell.net/page4/page4.html *

He has an impressive collection - not that it seems to have deterred him!

*caution - contains very bad language and much worse spelling.

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31. Comment #328440 by evotruth on January 27, 2009 at 12:27 pm

Thanks andreab. That is so shocking! Most of these people seem to be from Islam.

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32. Comment #328443 by sbooder on January 27, 2009 at 12:33 pm

David Attenborough is one of the people whom along with Johnny Morris and Terry Nutkins influenced me to be a Conservationist.

Sending David Attenborough hate mail is like kicking Michael Palin in the goolies, these men are gentle beings.

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33. Comment #328445 by Steve Zara on January 27, 2009 at 12:37 pm

Comment #328423 by andreab

Pat Condell is NOT comparable to David Attenborough. Thank goodness. David Attenborough is a wise and gentle educator, whose sole purpose is to enlighten people to the wonders of the natural world.

Pat Condell is quite, quite different. In so many ways.

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34. Comment #328455 by Verylee on January 27, 2009 at 12:42 pm

I suppose it is a bit naive to think that people such as Sir David Attenborough would not get hate mail from these sort of people.
It would be interesting to find out if the Archbishop of Canterbury or Prof. Robert Winston receive hate mail from Atheists.
(If they receive any, my guess would be that they would be from people of different religious sects to them)

Edit: And of course Sir Cliff Richard.

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35. Comment #328462 by Baron Scarpia on January 27, 2009 at 12:49 pm

And Attenborough rises ever higher in my estimation.

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36. Comment #328468 by Prankster on January 27, 2009 at 12:55 pm

Read the comments on the Condell site-shocking indeed-not the content just the appalling grammar and spelling-Brains Trust indeed.

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37. Comment #328474 by Rawhard Dickins on January 27, 2009 at 12:59 pm

Thank goodness we live in these times and with the likes of Attenborough and Dawkins to illuminate the way.

We are the first generations to see the whole picture emerge and there's bound to be controversy.

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38. Comment #328490 by Fuzzy Duck on January 27, 2009 at 1:14 pm

For goodness' sake...

But I'm glad Attenborough is telling it like it is. He's a real legend, and I can't wait to see his upcoming program on evolution. I owe a lot to that brilliant man, who was one of the first to show me just how magnificent the natural world is at such a young age.

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39. Comment #328494 by evotruth on January 27, 2009 at 1:15 pm

We should set a page up with all creationist hate mail in order to expose the religion/morals connection!

Steve Zara, Andreab's comments were in response to my comment above.

Other Comments by evotruth

40. Comment #328497 by Mr DArcy on January 27, 2009 at 1:17 pm

"They always mean beautiful things like hummingbirds. I always reply by saying that I think of a little child in east Africa with a worm burrowing through his eyeball. The worm cannot live in any other way, except by burrowing through eyeballs. I find that hard to reconcile with the notion of a divine and benevolent creator."

I find it impossible to reconcile the two.

I don't know which is worse: sending hate mail to David Attenborough or love letters to Stephen Green. I haven't checked recently but on the homepage here, there used to be The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. Judging by the Ugly comments Richard gets some pretty nasty stuff too. Stuff like "I hope you get hit by a church bus and die slowly", and other such charming utterances on behalf of the Prince of Peace. For all that these nutters are a small minority, I suspect.

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41. Comment #328504 by TonyA on January 27, 2009 at 1:19 pm

I've just received such a hate mail in my PM inbox on this site. Is there an appropriate place to post it?

Other Comments by TonyA

42. Comment #328508 by Stafford Gordon on January 27, 2009 at 1:19 pm

Albeit Sir David doesn't need anyone to help him look after himself, he has such a wealth of knowledge to impart which can enrich all our lives, and I feel deeply sorry for people who have either been conditioned in a way that prevents them from accepting evolution or are simply too dogmatic; their lives are all the poorer for it.

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43. Comment #328522 by Mr DArcy on January 27, 2009 at 1:24 pm

The Good, The Bad and The Ugly are now to be found on the homepage here under the Community tab.

Here http://richarddawkins.net/theUgly

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44. Comment #328523 by root2squared on January 27, 2009 at 1:25 pm

Don't the threats on Condell's website break any law?

16th century barbarians on the 21st century Internet.

Would be nice to round up those lovely people and throw them in jail.

Other Comments by root2squared

45. Comment #328530 by Mr DArcy on January 27, 2009 at 1:29 pm

Another try to post link to Ugly;

http://richarddawkins.net/theUgly

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46. Comment #328533 by aquilacane on January 27, 2009 at 1:32 pm

It was that whole "surely he can't believe this" part of my early childhood that solidified my lack of respect for authority. If this is the crap they are spouting, surely they must not be qualified to educate; guess I'll have to take it upon myself. Really had no interest in school after that.

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47. Comment #328539 by evotruth on January 27, 2009 at 1:35 pm

root2squared, i was thinking the same thing...

I wonder what the law has to say regarding internet death threats?

We should use these threats to our advantage. Do Atheists make the same threats? I think not!

btw - The photo i have is from David Attenborough's "Life Of Mammals" DVD.

Other Comments by evotruth

48. Comment #328546 by aquilacane on January 27, 2009 at 1:41 pm

Were I Scottish, and another Scot told me how to behave Scottish, he would get five in the eye. Perhaps some Christians respect the idea of free will, even if it is for disgusting people. I tend to ignore culture, it's repetitive.

Other Comments by aquilacane

49. Comment #328551 by bluebird on January 27, 2009 at 1:45 pm

Sir David's 'Life in Cold Blood' is now available for DVD rental- yay! :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_in_Cold_Blood

We have enjoyed many of his programs, including 'Life in the Undergrowth', 'Blue Planet', 'Planet Earth', etc.
"Sir David is to nature, what Carl Sagan is to astronomy".

BTW--Happy B.D. to J.C.W.T. Mozart & Robert Burns.

Other Comments by bluebird

50. Comment #328569 by quisquose on January 27, 2009 at 1:59 pm

One really does have to wonder why Christians feel the need to write hate mail, and to such nice people like David Attenborough as well.

Isn't the idea that their god will judge us, that we will burn in hell for all eternity, good enough for them?

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