1. Comment #334316 by Swordmaiden on February 4, 2009 at 11:33 am

Thank you for this....lovely!!!

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2. Comment #334325 by Sargeist on February 4, 2009 at 11:44 am

I loved this. The whole programme was superb and I loved the way that he would say, essentially, "Well people raised these objections, and we later found out that " over and over again. DNA, radioactivity, plate tectonics, fossils, the whole thing fits together so wonderfully that, yes, people do have to be rather pig-ignorant to shut their eyes and shout "no no no!"

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3. Comment #334330 by friendlypig on February 4, 2009 at 11:58 am

Tremendous. Even better 2nd, 3rd and 4th time around.

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4. Comment #334332 by HenryFord on February 4, 2009 at 11:59 am

It may not be absolutely accurate, it may ignore a number of branches and over emphasise others, but this clip is brilliant. Most people react in different ways to teaching aids. Some like cold hard facts, some like to conduct experiments for themselves and others (like myself) respond very strongly to visual stimulation. This is an incredible teaching aid for getting across this powerful message.

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5. Comment #334334 by Eventhorizon on February 4, 2009 at 12:00 pm

Loved it - Attenborough's the man - and unlike some at least he understands that fact

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6. Comment #334344 by MikeJ on February 4, 2009 at 12:15 pm

Absolutely beautiful. Just superb.

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7. Comment #334346 by headcold on February 4, 2009 at 12:18 pm

In fairness to the evangelicals there should have been the three second creationist version:

Narrator: God did it.

[Roll credits]

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8. Comment #334364 by j.mills on February 4, 2009 at 12:36 pm

You can still watch the whole programme here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00hd5mf

...and order the free poster! :)

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9. Comment #334367 by fnooples on February 4, 2009 at 12:42 pm

Argh I'm dying to see this programme! Not being a member of the UK master race I can't watch it BBC.co.uk ... Anyone found any other streams?

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10. Comment #334375 by scottishgeologist on February 4, 2009 at 1:02 pm

j.mills mentioned the free poster

On the BBC / OU website it states:

We are experiencing an unprecedented demand for our poster at the moment and it may take longer than our usual 28 days to deliver it to you. Please accept our apologies if your poster is delayed.

Now that encouraging!

:-)
SG

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11. Comment #334381 by j.mills on February 4, 2009 at 1:08 pm

Incidentally, this was a good show too:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00hd1mr

Darwin's Struggle: The Evolution of the Origin of Species, about Darwin's development of the theory over 20 years.

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12. Comment #334389 by mira on February 4, 2009 at 1:15 pm

Here, here!
I found 'Tree of life' in it's full glory for all the people to see here: http://www.megavideo.com/'v=XQEYA5L6
Enjoy :)

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13. Comment #334413 by tsknorri on February 4, 2009 at 1:53 pm

Very nice. A high-quality production, no doubt.

Some criticisms, though:

The wording of the narration did not in my view emphasize enough the inherent properties of evolution, i.e. that the evolutionary changes that give cause for different species to develop are caused by the species' need to adapt into their surrounding environments (random mutation that provides variety and survival of the fittest).

Also the immense timescale that is needed for this evolutionary development to be able to occur was in my view not emphasized enough. Millions of generations with minimal changes with each generation, etc.

As long as scientific documentaries are not explicit enough about essential details like this and use simplified narratives along the lines of "those kind of species evolved into these kind of species" and so on (however accurate the statement may be), we will never get rid of brain-dead but unfortunately all too successful creationist arguments like "Have you ever seen a monkey evolve into a man?" or such.

Also, calling something "The Tree of Life" and completely disregarding the development of our flora and concentrating only on the fauna is perhaps a bit misleading. "The Tree of Animal Life" would be more accurate.

However, I recognize that this clip was only an excerpt from a longer show and the issues I raised might have been addressed at other segments of the documentary.

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14. Comment #334414 by Sh!fty on February 4, 2009 at 1:53 pm

Mira: The link doesn't work for me.

Great Video. I can't wait to see the rest.

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15. Comment #334425 by fnooples on February 4, 2009 at 2:05 pm

Mira's link didn't work for me either. Did find it on a certain Bay for seafaring rascals though.

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16. Comment #334442 by Vanpastel on February 4, 2009 at 2:17 pm

Simply amazing, this is so much more itneresting that the garden of eden.

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17. Comment #334445 by Gregg Townsend on February 4, 2009 at 2:20 pm

Mira is a victim of the question mark bug. Here is her link repaired.

Charles Darwin and the Tree of Life

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18. Comment #334484 by Bill Lees on February 4, 2009 at 2:51 pm

Actually tsknorri, the full programme did, I thought, give a more than adequate emphasis to adaptation to environment and to the timescale of the process of ntural selection. I thought that the entire approach was pitched at just the right level - Attenborough is quite simply a genius at pitching ideas to a large popular audience in language that is at once brilliantly simple, not in the least condescending, and stunningly effective - and this programme was squarely aimed at as wide an audience as possible, screened at peak time. The term "National Treasure" could have been coined for him.

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19. Comment #334499 by The Truth, the light on February 4, 2009 at 2:58 pm

The idea of a neatly branching tree (as depicted in this doco) is not entirely accurate given the new findings in the New Scientist article.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126921.600-why-darwin-was-wrong-about-the-tree-of-life.html?full=true

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20. Comment #334531 by Rawhard Dickins on February 4, 2009 at 3:20 pm

That's a pretty wobbly description of abiogenesis!

6 out of 10 . . Attenborough really must try harder if he is going to succeed.



Edit - actually it was bloody good, I just fear as to what the god-botherers may pick up on.

Other Comments by Rawhard Dickins

21. Comment #334536 by neorenaissance on February 4, 2009 at 3:23 pm

I'm left with no words!!! So beautiful!!!! Apart from R.A.'s outstanding work (as always, one starts to take it for granted), graphic designers and 3d artists should be credited immensely, too!!! Absolutely original graphics!!!!!!!

Other Comments by neorenaissance

22. Comment #334556 by Barry Pearson on February 4, 2009 at 3:30 pm

#334484 by Bill Lees: The term "National Treasure" could have been coined for him.

"International Treasure", surely?

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23. Comment #334587 by SilentMike on February 4, 2009 at 3:50 pm

That was beautiful. Old David Attenborough has done it again. No surprise there. I Emailed this to friends. I dare suggest you consider doing the same.

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24. Comment #334615 by ahmunnaeetchoo on February 4, 2009 at 4:23 pm

I loved the part on the evolution of the eye. Don't know if that bit is in this clip but it's fascinating how it just clicked into place and made perfect sense.

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25. Comment #334632 by threespeed on February 4, 2009 at 4:55 pm

I've posted the complete 1-hour doc in full HD quality starting here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZv1Z4X0sgw

It seems to work at the moment, but will probably be removed by youtube soon. Enjoy while you can :)

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26. Comment #334633 by Border Collie on February 4, 2009 at 4:55 pm

Mira ... I think the Attenborough video is gone from that site. I couldn't find it.

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27. Comment #334647 by Goldy on February 4, 2009 at 6:23 pm

In the Independent

Blaming God and Darwin

It is surprising that Sir David Attenborough of all people should blame the instinct to "be fruitful and multiply" upon the Book of Genesis (31 January). He has demonstrated in his excellent TV programmes how this is written into our DNA, and indeed lies at the heart of all creation.

It appears to have escaped his notice that the devastation of the planet occurred long after Darwinism gained the ascendancy over Genesis. It is more plausible to blame man's attitude upon the realisation that his origins lie not in a garden where all creatures lived together in harmony, but in a ruthless struggle for survival of which he was the ultimate victor.

Stephen Trahair

Plymouth

Dr Nigel Halliday urges David Attenborough and other luminaries to apply the same academic rigour to the Bible as they do in their own disciplines (letter, 2 February). I suspect that if the word of God had been properly peer reviewed at the time it would have never been published, not only for its barbarity but also because of its numerous ambiguities and self-contradictions that account for the current debate in these pages.

Ian Quayle

Fownhope, Herefordshire

Other Comments by Goldy

28. Comment #334653 by Caudimordax on February 4, 2009 at 6:38 pm

Isn't it amazing how:

1. YECs simply don't get the concept and
2. that they think that this explanation "belittles" their god in some way.

I can imagine being a believer who is awed by the beauty of god's creation and by the process through which it came to be. That's the sort of believer I could at least have a conversation with.

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29. Comment #334654 by cjnkns on February 4, 2009 at 6:41 pm

OH PUUUHHHLEEEEEASE!

Everyone with a brain knows that GOD created life.
He sneezed and what was left in the heavenly hanky resulted in all life! ;) (just kidding if it wasn't obvious)

Excellent I cannot wait to see the entire show!

Other Comments by cjnkns

30. Comment #334656 by Caudimordax on February 4, 2009 at 6:50 pm

What happened to the stuff that escaped the heavenly hanky?

You confused me because that is the avatar that Frankus1122 uses.

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31. Comment #334658 by jignle on February 4, 2009 at 7:14 pm

Just wanted to say thanks for the megavideo link. Truly a wonderful program.

Other Comments by jignle

32. Comment #334661 by Lucas on February 4, 2009 at 7:23 pm

Pure beauty.

EDIT: Thank you Gregg.

Other Comments by Lucas

33. Comment #334662 by steveroot on February 4, 2009 at 7:23 pm

29. Comment #334654 by cjnkns on February 4, 2009 at 6:41 pm
avatarOH PUUUHHHLEEEEEASE!

Everyone with a brain knows that GOD created life.
He sneezed and what was left in the heavenly hanky resulted in all life! ;) (just kidding if it wasn't obvious)

You are confused; it was the Great Green Arkleseizure whose nose everything came from! The Jatravartids were right.
Ste5e

Other Comments by steveroot

34. Comment #334663 by Gregg Townsend on February 4, 2009 at 7:31 pm

26. Comment #334633 by Border Collie

Border Collie,

Charles Darwin and the Tree of Life

Other Comments by Gregg Townsend

35. Comment #334664 by cjnkns on February 4, 2009 at 7:41 pm

You confused me because that is the avatar that Frankus1122 uses.

Hmm maybe I just don't comment as much as Frankus1122. Maybe I should look for a new avatar :(

Other Comments by cjnkns

36. Comment #334665 by cjnkns on February 4, 2009 at 7:42 pm

You are confused; it was the Great Green Arkleseizure whose nose everything came from! The Jatravartids were right.
Ste5e

plus 1 to you my friend :)

(I tried to use the plus sign but the forums keeps removing it.)

Other Comments by cjnkns

37. Comment #334671 by devolved on February 4, 2009 at 8:17 pm

And the penny farthing evolved into a Chevrolet. It's hard to believe that so many people have fallen for this unscientific twaddle.

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38. Comment #334679 by bendigeidfran on February 4, 2009 at 9:39 pm

Comment #334671 by devolved

That is hard to believe. I could believe a very slightly different penny farthing at a push.

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39. Comment #334685 by Roy_H on February 4, 2009 at 10:35 pm

Talking of "Unscientific twaddle":-
My uncle lives near an Evangelical church. The other morning they dropped a leaflet through his letter box, part of it was about Darwin and evolution ( surprise surprise ) . I nearly laughed till I cried when I read it. They obviously must walk around wearing blinkers. it was totally pathetic.

Other Comments by Roy_H

40. Comment #334708 by quisquose on February 5, 2009 at 12:38 am

It is to the credit of the creators of this beautiful animation that they refrained from putting us as some sort of pinnacle or conclusion.

The animated sequence in Carl Sagans Cosmos, in common with all other visual guides to evolution I've seen, does have the lazy conclusion that we are the end result. But I still think it is fantastic because of it's sheer simplicity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q55z6EsL8M

Other Comments by quisquose

41. Comment #334710 by isharp on February 5, 2009 at 12:47 am

This was possibly the best hour of TV I have ever seen - brilliant Mr Attenborough!

Ian.

Other Comments by isharp

42. Comment #334711 by Hirofumi on February 5, 2009 at 12:49 am

Nice. Good to see my beloved wellcome foundation (do visit their beautiful library in euston Street, London, if you have a chance) make this contribution.

I do wonder, however, what these "chemical molecules" are that are mentioned. Are there also non-chemical molecules? Also, some mention of plants would have been nice.

Other Comments by Hirofumi

43. Comment #334718 by Quetzalcoatl on February 5, 2009 at 1:16 am

Devolved-

Instead of sniping, how about providing some empirical evidence for intelligent design that hasn't already been shown to be wrong by science?

Go ahead. I'm all ears.

Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl

44. Comment #334720 by thereisnodog on February 5, 2009 at 1:20 am

wonderful as ever...RA has been a window into the natural world all my life.

Legend....

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45. Comment #334728 by Goldy on February 5, 2009 at 1:42 am

And the penny farthing evolved into a Chevrolet. It's hard to believe that so many people have fallen for this unscientific twaddle.

Can you show it hadn't?

Given that, what, over 90% of species (and I'm guessing by that the sources mean the big animals on land and in the sea as opposed to microorganisms etc) have gone extinct - what to say the penny farthing was not an evolutionary dead end? Certainly the safety cycle went on to become the motorcycle as we know it...and from the early motorised bicycles we got cars.
Interesting subject, the history of motorised transport. Be careful or I'll bore the pants off you ;-)

Other Comments by Goldy

46. Comment #334735 by Tyler Durden on February 5, 2009 at 1:48 am

And the penny farthing evolved into a Chevrolet. It's hard to believe that so many people have fallen for this unscientific twaddle.

Devolved, have you met Wooter?

Other Comments by Tyler Durden

47. Comment #334737 by handy on February 5, 2009 at 1:52 am

and agree plus one with Goldy...

...infact there is quite the case of the penny farthing evoloving into cars, as engineers strived to make better, lighter, more reliable, easier to use etc etc etc...

...infact, devolved, you are posting on what is in effect a highly evolved abacus

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48. Comment #334739 by Swordmaiden on February 5, 2009 at 2:03 am

Comment #334654 by cjnkns

Snot true! Snot true!

Anyway, with regard to the wonderful Uncle David video, it is hard to get my friends to understand the magnitude of TIME which allowed for all this to happen. I can see why they still credit a "designer" because of terms like "so they formed a boney ridge"....it sounds like someone thought "oh, they need a boney ridge to do that....so..."
The whole documentary explains to some extent but even an hour's video can't get over the sheer scale of time which made all these wonders possible. Maybe thats the reason people of faith just don't get it....their brains are unable to visualise that immensity of time...maybe it is a genetic thing? One day someone will discover the Atheist Gene (or Reality Gene)!

Other Comments by Swordmaiden

49. Comment #334743 by handy on February 5, 2009 at 2:10 am

...that, Swordmaiden, and they're too frightened to think that we could breed successfuly with a chimpanzee, considering our DNA is closer together than that of some animals that we as humans cross breed...

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50. Comment #334746 by sbooder on February 5, 2009 at 2:23 am

The most encouraging part of this was, when the programme finished, I like many others decided to order the poster, but could not until the next day because the Open2 website seized up with too many requests for the poster...Superb!!

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