Wednesday, April 1, 2009 | Reason : In the News | print version

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Richard Dawkins says Pope is 'stupid'

by Telegraph

Reposted from:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/5088516/Richard-Dawkins-says-Pope-is-stupid.html

Richard Dawkins has described the Pope as "stupid" for claiming that the use of condoms could increase Africa's Aids problem.

Professor Dawkins, the prominent biologist and atheist, said that Benedict XVI would have blood on his hands if his beliefs were followed by Catholics around the continent.

Speaking at a university in Spain, he said: "I wonder on what basis anyone can say condoms make Aids worse. The Pope is either stupid, ignorant or dim.

"If people take his words seriously he will be responsible for the deaths of thousands, perhaps millions of people."

Prof Dawkins, 67, was speaking at a press conference at the University of Valencia after having been awarded an honorary degree.

He also urged people to think for themselves on the subject, adding that the more they did, the less they were likely to believe in God.

He congratulated Barack Obama, the US President, for having overturned a ban imposed by his predecessor, George W. Bush, on state funding for stem cell research.

Prof Dawkins, who recently stepped down as the Professor for Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University, is renowned for his strident views on faith.

He wrote the bestselling book The God Delusion in 2006 and supported the recent £140,000 advertising campaign on London transport, which featured posters reading: "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."

Last year, he announced his intention to write a book warning children of the dangers in believing what he called "anti-scientific" fairytales, including Harry Potter.

Last month Pope Benedict told reporters that condoms were not a solution and even "increase the problem" of Aids, as he arrived for a visit to Africa.

His comments prompted widespread criticism around the world from health activists, medical professionals and politicians.

In an editorial earlier this week, the Lancet, the respected medical journal, called on the Pope to retract his statement and said his comments could be "devastating for the health of millions of people".

Posted: Wednesday, April 1, 2009 | Permalink

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1. Comment #358680 by Richard Dawkins on April 1, 2009 at 8:23 am

I did not say the Pope is "stupid, ignorant or dim" – I hope I would never say anything so repetitive. My exact words were "stupid, ignorant or wicked."

Richard

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2. Comment #358683 by root2squared on April 1, 2009 at 8:26 am

Haha. Thanks professor! You've made my day.

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3. Comment #358684 by AllanW on April 1, 2009 at 8:28 am

Comment #358680 by Richard Dawkins on April 1, 2009 at 8:23 am

I did not say the Pope is "stupid, ignorant or dim" – I hope I would never say anything so repetitive. My exact words were "stupid, ignorant or wicked."

Phew! Well that's alright then. I thought for a moment you had departed from your normal urbane demeanour.

Congratulations on another honourary degree, Richard. Fully merited.

Other Comments by AllanW

4. Comment #358686 by bentleyd on April 1, 2009 at 8:28 am

What nonsense! Professor Dawkins is 68. Happy Birthday Richard!

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5. Comment #358688 by phasmagigas on April 1, 2009 at 8:31 am

yes, dim, is rather dull and redundant, wicked it is.

hopefully some darth ratz fan wont suggest that dawkins use of 'wicked' is redundant coming from an atheist.

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6. Comment #358689 by craig7120 on April 1, 2009 at 8:32 am

A belated Happy Bday professor, from across the pond.

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7. Comment #358692 by Carole on April 1, 2009 at 8:34 am

I'm very glad to hear this Richard. I read the quote in the Telegraph today and it didn't seem your usual genius-level sentence construction. :)

Great headline too, and saying what absolutely needs to be said.

Other Comments by Carole

8. Comment #358696 by Vaal on April 1, 2009 at 8:40 am

1. Comment #358680 by Richard Dawkins

My exact words were "stupid, ignorant or wicked."

Wicked is the right word. His stance on condoms makes him responsible for more deaths than Hitlers death camps, and his stone-age dogma inciting unsustainable population growth in the 21st Century is unforgivable.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7974995.stm

The man, unfortunately for humanity, is a fool. To be intelligent, yet still be a fool, is witless indeed.

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9. Comment #358697 by Mark Jones on April 1, 2009 at 8:41 am

Well said Professor.

Prof Dawkins, who recently stepped down as the Professor for Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University, is renowned for his strident views on faith.

The Torygraph gets another 'strident' in. Better than being 'stupid, ignorant or wicked', I suppose.

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10. Comment #358698 by Cartomancer on April 1, 2009 at 8:41 am

Might this have been the result of a translation error, from English to Spanish and back?

off the top of my head I can imagine mentecato (dimwitted) being substituted for mentiroso (mendacious) or some such. Is this a result of sloppy journalism on the English or the Spanish side?

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11. Comment #358700 by JIBJABBER on April 1, 2009 at 8:43 am

"...responsible for the deaths of thousands, perhaps millions of people".

That's a bit harsh, you make the Pope sound like a NAZI or something.. Oh wait...

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12. Comment #358701 by designsoda on April 1, 2009 at 8:44 am

The Pope could be all three: stupid, ignorant, and wicked.

Last year, he announced his intention to write a book warning children of the dangers in believing what he called "anti-scientific" fairytales, including Harry Potter.

April Fool's joke? Or is this a misrepresentation?

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13. Comment #358703 by LWS on April 1, 2009 at 8:46 am

I agree with your correction Richard. The pope is wicked. As any clear thinker knows the wealth of the Vatican is greater than many nations on earth. Italians hopefully will one day rid themselves of the insidious mob in the Vatican. It harms many more people than the notorious mafia.

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14. Comment #358704 by Ignorant Amos on April 1, 2009 at 8:46 am

its worse than that Ubersturmbanfurher Ratzy has committed a crime against humanity......well probably more than one, but we'll stick with this subject for now.

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15. Comment #358706 by Eventhorizon on April 1, 2009 at 8:48 am

He's all three

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16. Comment #358707 by DamnDirtyApe on April 1, 2009 at 8:48 am

Good grief, how many facts did they get wrong in that article? Poor show, Telegraph.

Thinking about it, there must be a website somewhere dedicated to making fun of the pope (aside from this one of course). Preferably it would have a lot of those images which make him look like a dark lord of the Sith.

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17. Comment #358708 by Ignorant Amos on April 1, 2009 at 8:50 am

yes Ratzy the Nazi...has a ring to it...murdering bastard

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18. Comment #358709 by Szymanowski on April 1, 2009 at 8:51 am

I can't wait for this book which tells children not to read fairy stories

:)

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19. Comment #358710 by Ygern on April 1, 2009 at 8:52 am

I see the article has all of the usual clichés..."strident views"...

A book on the dangers of Harry Potter?

Wasn't it (in Real Life) a children's book on evolution?

At least they spelled all the names right. Go, journalism!

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20. Comment #358711 by hungarianelephant on April 1, 2009 at 8:53 am

Yeah, but he has the cooler car. How much cooler could than an armoured ice cream van could it be?

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21. Comment #358712 by Wadsworth on April 1, 2009 at 8:54 am

15. Comment #358706 by Eventhorizon on April 1, 2009 at 8:48 am

"He's all three "

Iknew it! He is the Trinity come down to Earth.
Allelulya!

Other Comments by Wadsworth

22. Comment #358714 by Spinoza on April 1, 2009 at 8:59 am

"Lord, Liar, or Lunatic." has a new companion, I see.

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23. Comment #358716 by Colwyn Abernathy on April 1, 2009 at 9:03 am

BUUUUURRRRN!

Way to go Richard!

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24. Comment #358717 by javb222 on April 1, 2009 at 9:03 am

Can someone enlighten me. What's this about?

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25. Comment #358718 by CaptainMandate on April 1, 2009 at 9:05 am

I'd say he's all three

and a prick

the telegraph doesn't care what i think though

:o(

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26. Comment #358719 by Eventhorizon on April 1, 2009 at 9:05 am

Wadsworth

Lol! This is what the Trinity means to me...

Jesus said, Whom do men say that I am

And his disciples answered and said, Some say you are John the Baptist returned from the dead; others say Elias, or other of the old prophets.

And Jesus answered and said, But whom do you say that I am

Peter answered and said, "Thou art the Logos, existing in the Father as His rationality and then, by an act of His will, being generated, in consideration of the various functions by which God is related to his creation, but only on the fact that Scripture speaks of a Father, and a Son, and a Holy Spirit, each member of the Trinity being coequal with every other member, and each acting inseparably with and interpenetrating every other member, with only an economic subordination within God, but causing no division which would make the substance no longer simple."

And Jesus answering, said, "What"

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27. Comment #358720 by Chatsubo on April 1, 2009 at 9:06 am

'Last year, he announced his intention to write a book warning children of the dangers in believing what he called "anti-scientific" fairytales, including Harry Potter.'

That's just perfect. Next time while I'm pointing out to a religious person that a piece of fantasy fiction is not actually the work of satan trying to convince children that demons are real, they'll be able to quote R. Dawkins saying that indeed, the book is succeeding in doing just that.

I'm sad now.

What's that you say? Religious nuts would NEVER quote Richard out of context? Haha! I think they might.

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28. Comment #358724 by Richard Dawkins on April 1, 2009 at 9:15 am

Please don't let's get distracted by Harry Potter. That was last year's lie, and was exhaustively discussed on this site at the time. Just to get it out of the way, no I am NOT going to write a book that even MENTIONS Harry Potter, and I never even mentioned Harry Potter in the interview misquoted. Today's story is about the Pope, and his stupidity and/or ignorance and/or wickedness.

Richard

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29. Comment #358725 by Rich Wiltshir on April 1, 2009 at 9:17 am

Have any of the press disagreed£ Seems the evidence is overpowering on this one too.

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30. Comment #358726 by designsoda on April 1, 2009 at 9:21 am

Please don't let's get distracted by Harry Potter. That was last year's lie, and was exhaustively discussed on this site at the time. Just to get it out of the way, no I am NOT going to write a book that even MENTIONS Harry Potter, and I never even MENTIONED Harry Potter in the interview misquoted. Today's story is about the Pope, and his stupidity and/or ignorance and/or wickedness.

Richard

Wow, how can the Telegraph get away with such shoddy journalism? They publish a story that deals with misinformation (The Pope's statement) and add misinformation of their own. Disgusting.

Other Comments by designsoda

31. Comment #358727 by gcdavis on April 1, 2009 at 9:24 am

I am appalled at this outrageous slur on the Holy Father by this a man who has obviously not spent the last 40 years studying the encyclicals as I have done. The Holy Father is possessed of a giant intellect unlike the so called professor Dawkins whose only contribution to our spiritual and moral well being has been to inform us that we are descended from Apes, what twaddle!

The issue of contraception is one to which the Holy Father has given a great deal of thought and his conclusion is that the condom is irrelevant in the battle against HIV/Aids. The only reliable method of avoiding this horrible disease is complete abstinence from sexual intercourse.

Archbishop Aprile Uno
Papal Nuncio

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32. Comment #358728 by designsoda on April 1, 2009 at 9:28 am

There is some good news though. Some African priests are ignoring the Vatican when it comes to condom use. It seems that the facts on the ground and scientific evidence are enough to convince these priests that condom use prevents the spread of HIV.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090319/ap_on_re_af/af_africa_s_catholic_church

I was struck by this quote:

Luzia Gaspar, a Catholic nurse who trains midwives outside Luanda, prays the pope will reconsider.
"It's very dangerous. If we do not counsel people to use condoms we are condemning them to almost certain death," she said.

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33. Comment #358729 by PERSON on April 1, 2009 at 9:32 am

I'd think a significant number of staff appointed by the former proprietor still work at the Telegraph.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/jun/08/pressandpublishing.telegraphmediagroup

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-522829/Ex-Telegraph-owner-Conrad-Black-ordered-begin-jail-Monday-losing-appeal.html

Just saying.

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34. Comment #358732 by LWS on April 1, 2009 at 9:36 am

"The Pope is living on the moon," said Stephen Lewis, who heads a foundation supporting groups that alleviate the deadly effects of HIV/AIDS.

And he added: "Every stitch of scientific evidence says condoms are the best preventive measure we have against the virus."

The Pope's remark was "another example of complete indifference to the vulnerability of women, who are so hugely and disproportionately affected by HIV/AIDS," Lewis said in an interview from Hamilton yesterday."

http://www.stephenlewisfoundation.org/news_item.cfm?news=2740

Lewis recently completed a term as United Nations special envoy for HIV/AIDS in Africa.

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35. Comment #358735 by Caudimordax on April 1, 2009 at 9:48 am

Some African priests are ignoring the Vatican when it comes to condom use.

Well, as long as they're telling their parishioners to ignore it, too.

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36. Comment #358736 by suffolkthinker on April 1, 2009 at 9:48 am

Off topic a bit and I have no idea whether it bothers Richard but why do they have to quote his age in the article? ("Prof Dawkins, 67")

OK so it is the Telegraph and are probably living (or wish we lived) in the 1950s but it seems a pointless thing to mention. Or perhaps it's just to show he's younger than most of their readers?

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37. Comment #358737 by designsoda on April 1, 2009 at 9:51 am

Some African priests are ignoring the Vatican when it comes to condom use.

Well, as long as they're telling their parishioners to ignore it, too.

Hah! Nicely done!

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38. Comment #358739 by Ewald on April 1, 2009 at 9:56 am

32. Comment #358724 by Richard Dawkins on April 1, 2009 at 9:15 am
Please don't let's get distracted by Harry Potter. That was last year's lie, and was exhaustively discussed on this site at the time. Just to get it out of the way, no I am NOT going to write a book that even MENTIONS Harry Potter, and I never even mentioned Harry Potter in the interview misquoted. Today's story is about the Pope, and his stupidity and/or ignorance and/or wickedness.

Richard

Are you referring to the interview in which you were merely wondering whether fairy tales might have a negative effect on children? Or did I miss something?

Other Comments by Ewald

39. Comment #358740 by lvpl78 on April 1, 2009 at 9:56 am

The problem of horrendous poverty, particularly in Africa, will never go away until people are freely able to use birth control without fear of angering God.

Quite aside from the spread of aids, there is the issue of families having more and more mouths to feed. Poverty cannot be alleviated without the emancipation of women, and whilst denouncement of birth control persists, so too will the pain and suffering of billions.

The Catholic churches numbers are swelled by the populations of Africa. Their hold over groups of people in this type of region directly prevents huge numbers of people from moving towards a better life.

I know these are complex issues, and religion is not the only cause, but it is diametrically opposed to actually solving the problem. For the Catholic Church to actively promote behaviour which holds people down in squalor, whilst keeping their numbers high, is (and there's no other word for it), wicked. It's about time more people said this. Bravo RD!

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40. Comment #358741 by Old Sarum on April 1, 2009 at 9:57 am

So do I. Glad we can agree on something :)

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41. Comment #358742 by hungarianelephant on April 1, 2009 at 9:58 am

40. Comment #358736 by suffolkthinker

Off topic a bit and I have no idea whether it bothers Richard but why do they have to quote his age in the article? ("Prof Dawkins, 67")

It's a tried and trusted Torygraph technique. Tell the story in an apparently objective way, but do the two line pencil sketch so that the readers don't have to think for themselves. For example:

X, comma, a shop steward, comma, was convicted on six counts of gross indecency with an animal.

In this case, they would seem to be going for "strident" and "should be concentrating on the garden by now".

I blame the sub-editors.

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42. Comment #358744 by NewEnglandBob on April 1, 2009 at 9:58 am

Professor Dawkins, I know how you must feel. I was quoted in the New York Times and in the Wall Street Journal long ago, but never said the words they quoted or anything even close to them.

I just finished reading "The Age of American Unreason" By Susan Jacoby. She mentions poor journalism amidst the dumbing down of the US. I guess it is not unique to this country.

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43. Comment #358746 by Happy_Atheist123 on April 1, 2009 at 10:02 am

Thanks so much for bringing attention to the Pope's ridiculous statements, Prof Dawkins. I can't believe how little outcry there has been on this subject.

When I lived in Texas, I worked with an extremely religious man. I actually ended up appreciating him deeply because he really seemed to follow Jesus' teachings and was truly kind, loving, intelligent, non-judgmental. I admired him for actually being all of those things instead of being a fire-and-brimstone type of man. All of that changed when I excitedly told a few people at work that I had just gotten the groundbreaking new HPV vaccine, Guardasil. He told me that his church had given him a bunch of information on the vaccine. He told me that I was going to get brain damage from it! Since we were on the topic of STDs, he then told me that HIV actually passes through condoms, and they do no good.

My view of him was shattered on that day and I once again realized that religion IS scary and dangerous!

PS - It's been two years and still no brain damage from the cancer-preventing vaccine. :)

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44. Comment #358749 by Ignorant Amos on April 1, 2009 at 10:08 am

Off topic, but seeing as the Prof is looking at this thread I was wondering about any comments on Connor Cunningham and his program on the beeb entitled "Did Darwin Kill God" or can we expect an article?

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45. Comment #358750 by nicksm on April 1, 2009 at 10:09 am

i am just sad that a man with so many followers would say something like that. what is his reason, he must realize that it will cost lives as anyone in the know will tell him, is he doing it to save face by admitting another error as church so often has made,then he is evil. it is worse evil then the few people they burnt to death because they believed the world was not the centre of the galaxy.

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46. Comment #358760 by 8theist on April 1, 2009 at 10:32 am

The Pope is Stupid!

HA! Ain't it the truth. Thanks Richard, nobody could say it better.

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47. Comment #358761 by bluebird on April 1, 2009 at 10:32 am

:-)

http://www.catholic.ie/

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48. Comment #358763 by aquilacane on April 1, 2009 at 10:34 am

Not a terribly good likeness, but you get the idea. Duncezinger.

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49. Comment #358766 by Eshto on April 1, 2009 at 10:40 am

You forgot "batshit insane".

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50. Comment #358770 by Vanpastel on April 1, 2009 at 10:44 am

Comment #358698 by Cartomancer
The wording in the Spanish press is "es estupido, o ignorante o malintencionado" in Spanish and “o és estúpid o és ignorant o malintencionat” in Valencian (which is a variety of Catalan). "Malintencionat" and "malintencionado" are equivalent terms, and would be translated into the english language as "wicked" rather than into "dim".

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