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Tuesday, April 14, 2009 | Reason : Commentary | print version Print | Comments |

Document America is not a Christian nation

by Michael Lind

Thanks to Gary for the link.
Reposted from
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/04/14/christian_nation/index1.html

blankApril 14, 2009 | Is America a Christian nation, as many conservatives claim it is? One American doesn't think so. In his press conference on April 6 in Turkey, President Obama explained: "One of the great strengths of the United States is … we have a very large Christian population -- we do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation. We consider ourselves a nation of citizens who are bound by ideals and a set of values."

Predictably, Obama's remarks have enraged conservative talking heads. But Obama's observations have ample precedent in American diplomacy and constitutional thought. The most striking is the Treaty of Tripoli, ratified by the U.S. Senate in 1797. Article 11 states: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility [sic], of Mussulmen [Muslims]; and, as the said States never have entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Conservatives who claim that the U.S. is a "Christian nation" sometimes dismiss the Treaty of Tripoli because it was authored by the U.S. diplomat Joel Barlow, an Enlightenment freethinker. Well, then, how about the tenth president, John Tyler, in an 1843 letter: "The United States have adventured upon a great and noble experiment, which is believed to have been hazarded in the absence of all previous precedent -- that of total separation of Church and State. No religious establishment by law exists among us. The conscience is left free from all restraint and each is permitted to worship his Maker after his own judgment. The offices of the Government are open alike to all. No tithes are levied to support an established Hierarchy, nor is the fallible judgment of man set up as the sure and infallible creed of faith. The Mohammedan, if he will to come among us would have the privilege guaranteed to him by the constitution to worship according to the Koran; and the East Indian might erect a shrine to Brahma, if it so pleased him. Such is the spirit of toleration inculcated by our political Institutions."

Was Tyler too minor a president to be considered an authority on whether the U.S. is a Christian republic or not? Here's George Washington in a letter to the Hebrew Congregation of Newport, Rhode Island in 1790: "The citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for having given to mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy -- a policy worthy of imitation. All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship. It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for, happily, the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support ... May the children of the stock of Abraham who dwell in this land continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other inhabitants -- while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree and there shall be none to make him afraid."

Eloquent as he is, Barack Obama could not have put it better.

Contrast this with John McCain's interview with Beliefnet during the 2008 presidential campaign: "But I think the number one issue people should make [in the] selection of the President of the United States is, 'Will this person carry on in the Judeo Christian principled tradition that has made this nation the greatest experiment in the history of mankind?'" Asked whether this would rule out a Muslim candidate for the presidency, McCain answered, "But, no, I just have to say in all candor that since this nation was founded primarily on Christian principles ... personally, I prefer someone who I know has a solid grounding in my faith. But that doesn't mean that I'm sure that someone who is a Muslim would not make a good president. I don't say that we would rule out under any circumstances someone of a different faith. I just would -- I just feel that that's an important part of our qualifications to lead."
Quantcast

Conservatives who, like McCain, assert that the U.S. is in some sense a Christian or Judeo-Christian nation tend to make one of four arguments. The first is anthropological: The majority of Americans describe themselves as Christians, even though the number of voters who describe themselves as religiously unaffiliated has grown from 5.3 percent in 1988 to 12 percent in 2008. But the ratio of Christians to non-Christians in American society as a whole is irrelevant to the question of whether American government is Christian.

The second argument is that the constitution itself is somehow Christian in character. On that point, candidate McCain said: "I would probably have to say yes, that the Constitution established the United States as a Christian nation." Is McCain right? Is the U.S. a Christian republic in the sense that according to their constitutions Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan are all now officially Islamic republics? What does the Constitution say? Article VI states that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust in the United States." Then there is the First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ... "

True, over the years since the founding, Christian nationalists have won a few victories -- inserting "In God We Trust" on our money during the Civil War in 1863, adding "under God" to the Pledge of Allegiance during the Cold War in 1954. And there are legislative and military chaplains and ceremonial days of thanksgiving. But these are pretty feeble foundations on which to claim that the U.S. is a Christian republic. ("Judeo-Christian" is a weaselly term used by Christian nationalists to avoid offending Jews; it should be translated as "Christian.")
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1. Comment #364178 by DiveMedic on April 14, 2009 at 10:27 am

I always love any mention in the media of "under god" being inserted into the pledge in '54. This is something that seems to be largely unknown to most people who have spoken to me about my views on the removal of that garbage.

Other Comments by DiveMedic

2. Comment #364181 by toomanytribbles on April 14, 2009 at 10:30 am

 avatari knew the idiots who goofed off during history class would grow up and still be idiots.

Other Comments by toomanytribbles

3. Comment #364218 by Lucas on April 14, 2009 at 11:16 am

 avatarVery nicely done. This was what I wanted Hitch to have the time to say the other day when being talked at by Blackwell.

Do we need to learn this lesson again?


Apparently, yes. Over and over and over.

Other Comments by Lucas

4. Comment #364219 by zeroangel on April 14, 2009 at 11:17 am

 avatarI am embarrased to admit that I (when I considered myself a "conservative Republican") felt swayed by the "we are a Judeo-Christian nation" bit.

In all fairness though, even then I was hardly religious and it was more of a backlash against Muslim wackjobs. That is to say, I think I knew it pissed off the type of "multiculturist" that would welcome Muslim extremists with open arms and I embraced it for that reason.

I sometimes wonder if this is the same "5th arguement" that "conservatives" use. That is, they know it isn't really true, but they weild it as a weapon against "political correcteness."

Thoughts?

Other Comments by zeroangel

5. Comment #364221 by Rowdy1 on April 14, 2009 at 11:23 am

 avatarI am amazed by my fellow idiot Americans. I turn on the tv and see Obama saying some of the greatest things I have heard an American President say in my lifetime. Then, I change the channel and see the wingnuts proclaiming, "Obama hates America...Obama is a tyrant! He is the Anti-Christ!" WTF?!

As for this "Tea-Party" bulls**t going around saying America needs a revolution.....we just had one...it was called "the election." You know the one where we replaced the Republican majority with a Democratic majority and replaced the Republican President with a Black Democrat. You can have your "revolution" next time we vote.

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6. Comment #364224 by zeroangel on April 14, 2009 at 11:25 am

 avatarRowdy1:

Though I am not much impressed by the "Tea Party" stuff (I think it demeans the actual Tea Party) I DO understand people's frustration with high taxes. I was rather scared I was about to be abused to the tune of several thousand dollars this season. Fortunately, the first-time home buyer credit saved my a$$. If it weren't for that, I would be a rather bitter man indeed.

Other Comments by zeroangel

7. Comment #364226 by sundiver on April 14, 2009 at 11:27 am

 avatarCorrect me if I'm mistaken, but didn't Teddy Roosevelt want "In God We Trust" taken off US currency about 100 years ago? And in reference to electronaught's comment, aint it a shame to see what happens when the fundie loons take over a religion or a state. Big lesson there for us in the states.

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8. Comment #364233 by Mr DArcy on April 14, 2009 at 11:39 am

 avatarMessage seen today on the side of a motorway (freeway), in England:

"Britain is a Christian Country" And then the details of some preaching events to come.

And the founders of the American War of Independence and Constitution, like Jefferson, Franklin and Paine, were exactly seeking to break the dominant political power of Britain, a country at that time, not too far away from the "divine right of kings" to do as they would.

Well Jesus has done no good in Britain or America, time to push him into the realm of "conscience". Keep him to yourself mate, I don't want to know.

Other Comments by Mr DArcy

9. Comment #364236 by Needscowbell on April 14, 2009 at 11:44 am

 avatarIt amazes me that the Judeo-Christian God still gleefully resides on American currency. I was, however, overjoyed when I heard President Obama declaring the United States a secular nation. Perhaps the motto on the money will catch up to reality one day. /sigh

Other Comments by Needscowbell

10. Comment #364242 by gr8hands on April 14, 2009 at 12:15 pm

Fact check: The Treaty of Tripoli was ratified by a unanimous vote of the Senate. http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field(DOCID @lit(ej001383)):

"In God We Trust" was only on coins starting from 1864. It didn't appear on paper currency until 1957. http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.shtml

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11. Comment #364252 by RationalFreeThinker on April 14, 2009 at 12:50 pm

 avatarThis whole argument as to if the US is a 'Christian nation' is beyond silly.

Now, don't get me wrong - those of us who are non-believers/secularists need to speak out and speak up and counter the propaganda that the right-wing (i.e. wrong-wing) god-botherers continue to repeat.

1) Just because the majority of the population claims to be of the 'Christian' religion (composed of a frightful number of sub-sects) this does not mean the US is a 'Christian' nation. Why? Well, a majority of the population is composed of women. Does that mean that the US is a 'female' nation? No, it doesn't. The whole label by majority population is silly.

2) NO WHERE IN OUR FOUNDING DOCUMENTS DOES IT SAY THAT WE ARE A NATION FOUNDED ON CHRISTIANITY. In fact, there are plenty of documents written by our founders that explicitly state that the US IS NOT IN ANYWAY FOUNDED UPON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION.

3) The fact that the initial Europeans to invade the North American mainland were Christians looking to escape persecution by other Christians (just different sects) is meaningless. These ‘illegal immigrants’ had no intention of founding a country. They were merely trying to escape religious persecution.

4) Our laws are founded on British Common Law, NOT the so-called 10 commandments. These laws were modified and based on a government that is supposed to be of the people, by the people and for the people. GOD IS NOT INVOLVED AT ALL. In fact, British Common Law is PAGAN in origin, not religious.

Naturally, I could go on and on. But there really is no need to. Anyone who tells you that this is a ‘Christian’ Nation – just ask them to show you where it says that in the Constitution. It doesn’t say that, of course. And I hope it never will.

Other Comments by RationalFreeThinker

12. Comment #364261 by Squigit on April 14, 2009 at 12:57 pm

YAY for Obama! This is the second time he has acknowledged the fact that we are not a Christian nation (the first was in his inaug. speech where he not only acknowledged observers of other religions, but "non-believers" also)! :D

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13. Comment #364263 by Stafford Gordon on April 14, 2009 at 12:58 pm

Article 6 of The American Contitution reads as follows: "No religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

As a British man, I hope no Americans will take offence at my quoting their Constitution.

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14. Comment #364268 by Stafford Gordon on April 14, 2009 at 1:07 pm

Sorry everyone: I have to admit that I didn't read the article fully before posting my comment!

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15. Comment #364285 by foxfire on April 14, 2009 at 1:24 pm

 avatar@14: Stafford, I'm one American who most certainly does not take any offense at your quoting of the U.S. Constitution. I can only hope that the wingnuts in my country may someday also read it (and hopefully comprehend it).

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16. Comment #364288 by dfnewburry on April 14, 2009 at 1:28 pm

 avatarThere are no writings by Founding Fathers that guaranteed any rights to anybody that could not be taken away by the majority of Congress .
Personally I find the so called Supreme Court as oppresive as any religion . They have brainwashed people into believing they were to have the Moral Authority to rewrite laws written by Congress , which is exactly the same Moral Authority that our Founders railed against .

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17. Comment #364294 by LeeLeeOne on April 14, 2009 at 1:43 pm

 avatarI have had the fortune or misfortune depending upon your take, counter that the US was "founded" on Christianity.

I ask them to accompany me to our local public library so they can demonstrate to me what their voice stands on. I have had literally 7 out of 11 people in the past 9 months take me up on this 'quest'. They were given ample resources to document their supposition. But they could not find enough documentation.

Hey, it's only 1 person at a time, but it is still 1 person.

Education is the key, people. Education is everything.

Is the US a "christian" nation? No, it is not.

Is the US an "ignorant" nation? Yes, it is.

Other Comments by LeeLeeOne

18. Comment #364307 by shaunfletcher on April 14, 2009 at 1:59 pm

 avatarWhy on EARTH is that marvellous washington quote not used more often??

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19. Comment #364312 by JonLynnHarvey on April 14, 2009 at 2:16 pm

The Declaration of Independence simply refers to human rights as "the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them", an obviously deistic point of view. Thinking on human rights is developed in a systematic way in ancient Greek and Roman thought, and in a relatively sporadic and scattershot way in the Bible.

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20. Comment #364332 by Lord Osis on April 14, 2009 at 3:10 pm

 avatarThank god Obama won and not that McCain fool hey? Although, as a number of my Kenyan friends keep telling me, Obama is a christian, he converted a few years ago....whatever that means

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21. Comment #364353 by rod-the-farmer on April 14, 2009 at 4:33 pm

 avatarA poll in Kentucky in recent days on this very issue showed some encouraging data


Results: President Obama said, ‘We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation, or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation. We consider ourselves a nation of citizens who are bound by ideals and a set of a values. How do you feel about those comments ?

Poll Results:

Offended – America is still a Christian nation - 11.2%

Agree – No one religion is more important - 5.3%

Agree – Our country is not based on religious beliefs - 82.9%

Don’t care - 0.7%

Total Responses - 6450


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22. Comment #364370 by HappyPrimate on April 14, 2009 at 5:39 pm

 avatarThis was a very good article and it would be nice if it were more widely read. Our public schools have done a very poor job with educating the young on our history. Thomas Jefferson wrote a very brief, but inspiring, autobiography which should be read by every high school student and all those seeking citizenship here. I would also like to see Susan Jacoby's book on free thinkers of American history read also. Some really great stuff in there. History can be a mighty important subject of one's education, especially when deciding matters for the future. I'm finding in my older years that it is also extremely interesting.

EDIT: Also to RationalFreeThinker - There is one state that does not follow British Common Law. Louisiana's Civil Code is based completely on the Napoleonic Code which makes this state unique. We do not have counties, instead we have parishes.

Other Comments by HappyPrimate

23. Comment #364386 by Umair Rahat on April 14, 2009 at 6:08 pm

@rod-the-farmer:

This poll was fixed, incase you didn't knew. :)
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/04/christian_nation.php

Other Comments by Umair Rahat

24. Comment #364420 by robotaholic on April 14, 2009 at 8:04 pm

 avatar@rod-the-farmer:
yep, I helped fix it

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25. Comment #364425 by j.mills on April 14, 2009 at 8:27 pm

 avatarIt's another example of people using deistic language which comes back to bite 'em in the ass later. Einstein, Hawking ("we would know the mind of god")... If Jefferson and co didn't want gods invoked, why mention them at all, in any form? Phrases like "the creator" and "nature's god" could have been designed to engender controversy for ever more.

Still, since no one's advocating compulsory adherence to christianity, I wonder whether the fundies think it would still be a christian nation if a day came when it contained no christians?

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26. Comment #364432 by pkruger on April 14, 2009 at 9:46 pm

How tragic so many Americans don't even know what country it is they live in.

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27. Comment #364434 by zengardener on April 14, 2009 at 9:55 pm

 avatarTragic is right. There is only one requirement to be a natural American. To immigrate, one must actually study.

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28. Comment #364439 by Big T on April 14, 2009 at 10:11 pm

"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof" - sounds pretty simple to me. How can any intelligent, halfway educated person read those words and conclude that America is a nation founded on "Judaeo-Christian values"? Both Judaism and Christianity persecuted atheists, agnostics, apostates, etc. for centuries. I consider America to be a nation founded on the values of The Enlightenment. Freedom of thought, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, the freedom to have no religion or the religion of one's (free) choice. In the Old Testament we are told that if your child chooses another religion, you should kill her. In the Muslim tradition (the Hadith, I think, rather than the Qur'an) it says "Whoever changes his religion (away from Islam, that is) kill him." In the Qur'an itself, atheists and other non-Muslims are threatened with hellfire. Now, which tradition is closer to the values of the "Founding Fathers"? Enlightenment values of free thought, or the Monotheistic religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam? Isn't the answer obvious to any intelligent, educated person with intellectual integrity?

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29. Comment #364442 by Rowdy1 on April 14, 2009 at 10:27 pm

 avatarThe term "Christian Nation" is too ambiguous. What does it meean? It's typical wingnut vaguery. This is the kind of psychology that works so well for them. It plays on emotions and avoids facts and in this case, definitions.

The Limbaughs/Hannitys/Becks of the media say "We area a Christian Nation" and the sheep are in instant agreement because they "feel" that we are.

Does anyone else find it amusing that Christians refer to the congregation as the "flock" and the Jesus/Follower relationship as Shepherd/Sheep? It may be the one thing we agree on.

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30. Comment #364455 by dfnewburry on April 14, 2009 at 11:42 pm

 avatarhttp://etext.virginia.edu/toc/modeng/public/JefVirg.html

Scroll to the Religion section .

Clearly America was Christian before the Founding of the United States Goverment which was created to keep the Christians from jailing everybody .

Other Comments by dfnewburry

31. Comment #364465 by happyfinesad on April 15, 2009 at 12:34 am

 avatarComment #364181 by toomanytribbles:

"i knew the idiots who goofed off during history class would grow up and still be idiots."

Heh. If they would have taught us these things in my history class, perhaps I would have been more inclined to pay attention and less inclined to sleep during class.

Other Comments by happyfinesad

32. Comment #364473 by keddaw on April 15, 2009 at 1:23 am

 avatarI think my favourite quote was by some loon who said: America's founding documents are themselves predicated upon God and the Bible.
http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin114.htm

EDIT - please go read this site, he has 4 or 5 articles, all unintentionally hilarious. e.g. "President Bush has kept in place a 1998 Clinton executive order prohibiting discrimination against sodomites in the federal workforce."

Not sure he was the one that I saw on Fox, but his statements are similar enough. Maybe they all have the same hymn sheet.

Although to be fair to Pastor Chuck Baldwin he does, at the bottom of the article, make a valid call for the constitution to be upheld by politicians whom he says weren't (this was written 2003) which was very apt.

Other Comments by keddaw

33. Comment #364477 by SnowyDoc on April 15, 2009 at 1:48 am

 avatarI suspect much could be gained by enlightening the conservative/religious commentators as to the difference between "moral values" and what they like to refer to as "christian values" and, as eloquently explained both by Richard and other writers, helping them to realise that morality exists independently of any religion.

The United States was not founded on so-called christian values. It was founded on a rational and fair set of moral values. They had, and have, nothing to do with any religion, and this was stated explicitly by more than one of the country's much lauded "founding fathers".

Why are Americans so ignorant of their own (quite interesting and lively) history?

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34. Comment #364502 by ukvillafan on April 15, 2009 at 5:11 am

 avatarHey, RFT

Is that you? My doppelganger in the US!! Weird!!!

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35. Comment #364524 by cerad on April 15, 2009 at 6:28 am

 avatar
Why on EARTH is that marvellous washington quote not used more often??

You mean this one?
"Religion is as necessary to reason, as reason to religion. The one cannot exist without the other. A reasoning being would lose his reason, in attempting to account for the great phenomena of nature, had he not a Supreme Being to refer to; and well it has been said, that if there had been no God, mankind would have been obliged to imagine one."


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36. Comment #364558 by AfraidToDie on April 15, 2009 at 7:37 am

 avatar
19. Comment #364288 by dfnewburry: Personally I find the so called Supreme Court as oppresive as any religion.


I can only assume you disagree with the Supreme Court’s decisions in many cases? This third branch of the government is there for a very important reason, and that is to insure that the majority does not trample on the rights of the minority. It may not be perfect, but it does function as intended. If their decisions are ever so outrageous as to offend the vast majority, there is also a mechanism to change the law. It appears to me that all the complaints I have heard about the Supreme Court always comes from the religious right?

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37. Comment #364570 by palanski on April 15, 2009 at 8:04 am

Thought I'd share this, found it while browsing around YouTube. Thanks, Konstantine.

(Must See!) Richard Dawkins Rap -> http://tinyurl.com/chp8ov

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38. Comment #364573 by jhm on April 15, 2009 at 8:11 am

 avatarAlthough it's too slow a progression IMHO, it seems instructive to examine the history: It would have been unpopular, in the 18th and 19th centuries, to claim the US had Judeo-anything values, and even allowing for Catholics would have been problematical. Later, the Catholics seemed Okay, but Judaism was still on the outs. Now there is often included Catholics and Jews, but Muslims are on the outs (even though most of the "values" referred to are essentially the same, as far as I can determine; the US has regularly been alone with fundamentalist Muslim countries voting to denounce reproductive freedoms et cetera). The uproar in the House of Representatives when a Hindu gave the morning prayer suggests that they will be next to be on the outs (ironically enough, seeing as early Christianity might very well have petered out had it not been for Hindu scholars in India and China), even after we have become a Judeo-Christian-islamic nation--or maybe just Abrahamic, but we are getting closer to the end of the line for this nonsense.

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39. Comment #365021 by dfnewburry on April 15, 2009 at 11:04 pm

 avatarMy critisism of this supposed High Court is 5 non elected robe wearers being able to tell an entire nation how to live its life . While it is true that there are ways around this , would they allow it ? ... Bush V Gore is classic , that case regardless of ones opinion of the facts was a black mark on our system because of the High Court .

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40. Comment #365062 by WilliamP on April 16, 2009 at 2:38 am

When I heard John McCain say that the USA is a Christian nation based on its constitution, I thought that was the stupidest thing I had ever heard and that he was the dumbest politician alive. Of course that was before he had selected his running mate.

But anyway, if we're not a Christian nation, we must be a stupid country if we come that close to chosing leaders that are so ignorant of the nation's constitution. Although being a Christian nation these days would be a sufficient condition for being a stupid one.

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41. Comment #365075 by Manson on April 16, 2009 at 4:06 am

Can someone please point me to a single moral, ethic, or value set forth in America's founding documents that is uniquely Judeo Christian?

In other words, not found in other "faiths", philosophies, or ethical traditions that either developed along side Judeo Christian traditions or preceded them.

If you are the last one to say "thou shall not kill" do you get to claim ownership of that idea?

It seems to me, Christians like to think their "good" ethics (never mind the bad) are somehow uniquely theirs when thousands of other cultures that preceded them have lived by the same ethics.

Other Comments by Manson

42. Comment #365467 by quantum_flux on April 16, 2009 at 5:19 pm

 avatarI haven't seen that Christian Flag flown beneath the United States Flag situation since I was in grade school....wow! I'm going to have to make my own flag some day.

Other Comments by quantum_flux

43. Comment #366823 by steveroot on April 20, 2009 at 4:16 am

 avatarFor some reason, everything I send to Josh seems to end up in... well, Purgatory. ;-)

I thought the following were of relevance, considering "Newsweek" is a fairly widely-read publication:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/192583

There is a follow-up:
http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/readback/archive/2009/04/08/the-christian-media-takes-on-jon-meacham.aspx

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