1. Comment #376875 by MUNRO1 on May 14, 2009 at 12:19 pm

I am astounded. Can he even hear himself say it. A bronze age myth created by humans which you cant be human without ??

We need to spread the word and stop this utter fool getting any where near a position of power over the secular of this country.

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2. Comment #376883 by notsobad on May 14, 2009 at 12:25 pm

Old man in a costume and not even a clown.
Or isn't he?

Other Comments by notsobad

3. Comment #376884 by decius on May 14, 2009 at 12:26 pm

Old Sarum, is that you?

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4. Comment #376890 by Steve Zara on May 14, 2009 at 12:30 pm

Someone who wants to help promote fairness (and even help protect religion in some ways) by ensuring a separation of religion from the state is not fully human?

It is bad enough making such a slur against atheists, but I really detest these liars, who try and mix up secularism with atheism in order to frighten the religions out of supporting the principle of fairness and tolerance that is secularism.

I have no hesitation in calling O'Connor a threat to true democracy.

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5. Comment #376893 by legless on May 14, 2009 at 12:32 pm

What does he know of humanity?

If he's using the bible as source material........very little. IGNORANT FOOL!

Other Comments by legless

6. Comment #376895 by Peacebeuponme on May 14, 2009 at 12:35 pm

Put this on a thread the other day. This guy is my favourite Irishman and theist.

He does us a great service with his steady stream of utter crap.

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

7. Comment #376896 by rationaleyes on May 14, 2009 at 12:36 pm

Guys, I think he's on to us... who's been showing off their devil horns?!!

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8. Comment #376898 by Quine on May 14, 2009 at 12:36 pm

I guess you are not fully "kid" if you don't believe in the Tooth Fairy.



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9. Comment #376899 by MarcCountry on May 14, 2009 at 12:36 pm

"If they leave out an aspect of what, I believe, everyone is made for... then I feel that it's a diminishment of what it is to be human."

So, if everyone was made for, say, sexual procreation, then someone who takes a vow of chastity or celibacy is, by the Cardinal's logic, not fully human.

Silly monkey!

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10. Comment #376901 by Parapraxis on May 14, 2009 at 12:41 pm

These archaic mindsets are laughable.

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11. Comment #376904 by j.mills on May 14, 2009 at 12:49 pm

His last rambling sentence is pure tautology: essentially, 'if you leave out god then you're not fully human because you're not fully human if you leave out god'.

Wot a dick.

Other Comments by j.mills

12. Comment #376910 by jardino on May 14, 2009 at 12:59 pm

I've been a bit lax about signing the petition to keep Conman Murphy out of the House of Lords, but after watching this, I immediately did so.

To think that this Neanderthal could soon be voting on my rights and priviledges!

(I apologise if I've inadvertently insulted any surviving Neanderthals.)

Other Comments by jardino

13. Comment #376911 by Rationalist1 on May 14, 2009 at 1:03 pm

Imagine the outrage if the Cardinal had have made the same comment about Protestants, Muslims or Jews.

Keep up the good work Cardinal. Every statement like that will make more people rethink the their opinion of the Catholic Church.

I may not be fully human in his mind, but I know I haven't wasted my life believing absurdities.

Other Comments by Rationalist1

14. Comment #376912 by ronfac on May 14, 2009 at 1:03 pm

Speaking of not fully human (the following is from Wikipedia):

Murphy-O'Connor found himself subject to public scrutiny regarding a priest in his diocese when he was Bishop of Arundel and Brighton. During this time it was brought to his attention that a priest, Michael Hill, was a child sexual abuser. Instead of reporting Hill to the police, Murphy-O'Connor allegedly allowed the crime to be covered up and transferred Hill to Gatwick Airport chapel, where the Cardinal believed he would not be able to molest children. In 1997, Hill was finally convicted as a child molester and jailed for sexually assaulting nine children. After three years in jail, Hill was given another five years for assaulting three other boys. In 2000, when O'Connor ascended to the status of Archbishop of Westminster, the case became known to the general public.[8]

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15. Comment #376916 by chewedbarber on May 14, 2009 at 1:14 pm

Someone should have asked him where exactly he has been searching? Don't you sort of have to proclaim that you've found everything before you can even become a Catholic? --They do love the inexplicable don't they?

Oh, and clearly he meant that without Jesus you're not whole. Yes, it is that cheesy, Jesus does complete you. This is the meaning of salvation, to be made whole.

Trouble is, being made whole includes the purging of sin, which doesn't square with the reality of old men who fancy pulling young lads weeners. Nor does it bode well for him that nobody of the whole variety seems to be able to differentiate between the wheat and the chaff, at least not better than anyone else.

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16. Comment #376919 by Stafford Gordon on May 14, 2009 at 1:20 pm

To understand evolution is to understand what you are. This man is ignorant, he needs stop covering up for priests who fuck young boys and he'd do well to miss a few meals.

Other Comments by Stafford Gordon

17. Comment #376921 by root2squared on May 14, 2009 at 1:25 pm

Well, actually, he's right. We are super humans :p

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18. Comment #376922 by legless on May 14, 2009 at 1:26 pm

jeez! the man's wearing a soup bowl on his head, a dog collar to support his extra chin and a very fetching red boob tube and he expects me to take him seriously.

Other Comments by legless

19. Comment #376925 by Steve Zara on May 14, 2009 at 1:29 pm

I think this a serious matter, and O'Connor has to be confronted with it.

Some of the worst excesses of humanity have arisen because one group considers another "not fully human" in some way. Slavery. Much anti-semitism. The awful treatment of native populations by invaders.

Such a statement goes against the fundamental principles of human rights. It is in direct contrast with the idea that we live in a democracy in which each person is considered to have equal rights.

Not even far-right groups in the UK would make such statements publicly. This would be shocking enough from some bigoted yob, but this person is in a position of political influence.

This is a truly shameful statement.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

20. Comment #376926 by Diacanu on May 14, 2009 at 1:30 pm

What Steve said.

Shameful, and dangerous.

We're seeing now just how desperate these people are getting.

Other Comments by Diacanu

21. Comment #376927 by gurkuda on May 14, 2009 at 1:31 pm

So much for omnipotence if this guy is god's PR manager.
I agree that he might end up doing all of us a huge favour by alienating those who are not quite convinced yet.

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22. Comment #376929 by chewedbarber on May 14, 2009 at 1:32 pm

I agree Steve, but you'll never pin that meaning on his statement.

It will be viewed as a misunderstanding. He wasn't saying atheists aren't completely human, just that they are missing something from the human experience.

We are all completely human, but surely some of us are taking more advantage of life than others, with God life is more fulfilling -- on and on, surely this is already being spun right?

Other Comments by chewedbarber

23. Comment #376931 by Diogenes of Sinope on May 14, 2009 at 1:34 pm

What the Cardinal says is hardly surprising; according to his view of reality, atheists are missing the meaning of life. Of course, his view of reality being off the mark by orders of magnitude, atheists conlude that the Cardinal leads an intellectually impoverished life, and one can also resent his implication that without a "transcendental search" our lives are necessarily less complete.

a search for transcendent meaning, we call it god

Is this a very unorthodox, idiosyncratic definition of god, or am I missing something?

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24. Comment #376932 by Frankus1122 on May 14, 2009 at 1:35 pm

I like the Youtube and these discussion boards and the Internet in general because it allows for the wider dispersal of stuff like this.
You would have to be very deficient brain-wise to not see how impoverished the cardinal's statements are. The more people made aware of this kind of thinking the better.

Thank you Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'Connor.

Other Comments by Frankus1122

25. Comment #376933 by A on May 14, 2009 at 1:37 pm

Silly old dick, dressed up like a pantomime dame spreading his filthy epistemology.

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26. Comment #376934 by Steve Zara on May 14, 2009 at 1:37 pm

Comment #376929 by chewedbarber

I know it is hopeless, but I just wish there was some way that shocking nature of what he says could be pointed out. Just imagine the outrage if he said that Jews were "not fully human".

Other Comments by Steve Zara

27. Comment #376935 by arlopickens on May 14, 2009 at 1:38 pm

This is the kind of thing you get when you give a platform to people who build their whole lives and livelihoods on using make-believe to scare people into submission.

My dog is more human.

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28. Comment #376936 by lol mahmood on May 14, 2009 at 1:38 pm

This is priceless; what an asshat!

RD should make him an honourary fellow of RDFR; he is a positive boon to the causes of atheism and secularism!

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29. Comment #376938 by Diacanu on May 14, 2009 at 1:39 pm

Frankus1122-

Yep.

Like I said on my blog, the internet has shrunken the planet to a speck, and there's no wiggle room for the bullshitters anymore.

Other Comments by Diacanu

30. Comment #376939 by KRKBAB on May 14, 2009 at 1:41 pm

This is very similar to when George Bush senior was President and he defiantly said that atheists are not real American Citizens. This didn't seem to bother to populace much when it happened (or me that much because I hadn't been fully atheistic at the time). I think (as Steve suggested) Cardinal Idiot's remark should become a big issue and not let just pass as another minor incident.

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31. Comment #376940 by Dark Matter on May 14, 2009 at 1:41 pm

Statements like this from the Cardinal only convince me that the faithful are "not fully there".




Dark Matter.

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32. Comment #376941 by eboily on May 14, 2009 at 1:46 pm

If to be human is to believe in superstitions and live a life in a state of denial of reality, then maybe it is time to move up beyong being human.

It can also be that his definition of being human is... hum... I'll go for strange.

Other Comments by eboily

33. Comment #376942 by harveydinio on May 14, 2009 at 1:52 pm

What a complete bigot this man is! What Atheist has ever denied the transcendent? We Atheist's deny the supernatural, which has nothing to do with the transcedent. Christopher Hitchens highlights this point in his book 'god is not great' and in a number of his debates. I as an atheist, feel the transcedent all the time when I look at the beauties of nature and the universe, I also feel the transcendent in music, poetry and English literature. This is what inspires me with a sense of awe and grandeur instead of believing in an invisible sky daddy. Which to me seems nothing more than petty and diminishing of the experience of the transcedent. Maybe he is the one who is "not fully human" and shows the lowly stamp of his origin in believing in every type of superstition and absurdity.

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34. Comment #376943 by Spinoza on May 14, 2009 at 1:53 pm

This is just a no true scotsman fallacy motivated by a deeply ingrained evolutionary defense mechanism.

If people can survive without memes that have got you to think you need them to survive, your brain kinda goes cuckoo...

One of the things we need to keep emphasizing is that we experience the same things religious people do, we just describe it with naturalistic language instead of superstitiously oriented gibberish.

It would be like saying if you believe the science behind oxytocin and vasopressin's role in love, you suddenly become unable to love.

Rubbish!

Other Comments by Spinoza

35. Comment #376945 by Oystein Elgaroy on May 14, 2009 at 1:56 pm

Well, it is hard to think clearly when you are wearing a mitre.

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36. Comment #376946 by asyouwere on May 14, 2009 at 1:56 pm

Not being fully human explains a lot about me.

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37. Comment #376947 by Dark Matter on May 14, 2009 at 2:00 pm

@ronfac "Speaking of not fully human (the following is from Wikipedia):

Murphy-O'Connor found himself subject to public scrutiny regarding a priest in his diocese when he was Bishop of Arundel and Brighton. During this time it was brought to his attention that a priest, Michael Hill, was a child sexual abuser. Instead of reporting Hill to the police, Murphy-O'Connor allegedly allowed the crime to be covered up and transferred Hill to Gatwick Airport chapel, where the Cardinal believed he would not be able to molest children. In 1997, Hill was finally convicted as a child molester and jailed for sexually assaulting nine children. After three years in jail, Hill was given another five years for assaulting three other boys. In 2000, when O'Connor ascended to the status of Archbishop of Westminster, the case became known to the general public.[8] "




Obviously having a "space for the transcendent" - whatever that's supposed to mean - involves turning a blind eye to paedophilia.

I am often amazed that more interviewers or journalists don't point out this well known fact far more often whenever the Cardinal shoots off his mouth about his peculiar definitions of "morality".

I am also surprised that this interview didn't ask the natural follow-up question "do you think that atheists are subhuman?"

I can easily see our morally bankrupt and thoroughly corrupt politicians bending over backwards to make this man a Lord - "what an utter disgrace...Let's have him."




Dark Matter.

Other Comments by Dark Matter

38. Comment #376948 by HandyGeek on May 14, 2009 at 2:02 pm

I guess he must have a strange definition of what "human" is. I simply acknowledge that I could die any second and that it means I'm done. Once my brain can't comprehend my existence, its game over for me. So, if I believe in something more than that, I'm more human in some way? Bah.

Other Comments by HandyGeek

39. Comment #376949 by Steve Zara on May 14, 2009 at 2:03 pm

Comment #376947 by Dark Matter

Obviously having a "space for the transcendent" - whatever that's supposed to mean - involves turning a blind eye to paedophilia.

I am not sure this is fair. There are very many extremely decent believers in the supernatural. One of the things that is so awful about O'Connor's comments is that he claims to speak for others.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

40. Comment #376950 by notsobad on May 14, 2009 at 2:04 pm

Steve Zara:

...but I really detest these liars...

Why? They help move Christianity towards deism and irrelevancy.

Other Comments by notsobad

41. Comment #376952 by Big City on May 14, 2009 at 2:07 pm

I don't think he means that we aren't fully human, I think he means we aren't experiencing life to the fullest. But I could be wrong.

I think what George Bush said was a lot worse:

No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God.

I think that the Cardinal saying that we're just 'missing out', as it were, pales in comparison.

Other Comments by Big City

42. Comment #376953 by Steve Zara on May 14, 2009 at 2:07 pm

Comment #376950 by notsobad

I don't think they do. They attempt to incite a fear of secularism. They make believers worry that any reduction in the political influence of religion is a move towards inevitable atheism. That is not the case. Secularism is about fairness for all, whatever their belief or non-belief.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

43. Comment #376956 by Colwyn Abernathy on May 14, 2009 at 2:08 pm

Well then, your view is a total load of shite, Vicar. I posit Hitchens's challenge. Name me one act of benevolence or word of kindness that can be performed/uttered by a theist that cannot be done by an atheist.

Fucktard.

EDIT:
Marc,

So, if everyone was made for, say, sexual procreation, then someone who takes a vow of chastity or celibacy is, by the Cardinal's logic, not fully human.

PWND...excellent point. :)

Other Comments by Colwyn Abernathy

44. Comment #376957 by Colwyn Abernathy on May 14, 2009 at 2:13 pm

root2squared,

Well, actually, he's right. We are super humans :p

I believe the Latin is Homo Superior ;)

Other Comments by Colwyn Abernathy

45. Comment #376958 by Corylus on May 14, 2009 at 2:16 pm

See here for antidote.

Don't buy into 'not an ape line', but as it is due to artistic ignorance rather than deliberate lying, I'll let him off.

Better than Cormac's world-view anyway.

Other Comments by Corylus

46. Comment #376959 by chadcross on May 14, 2009 at 2:16 pm

Well, if "humans" are all this ignorant, count me out.

Other Comments by chadcross

47. Comment #376964 by Mr DArcy on May 14, 2009 at 2:37 pm

If being a sub-human means not having Jesus in my life, then it is a price well worth paying.

An insult to the venerable gentleman isn't needed, he insults himself.

Other Comments by Mr DArcy

48. Comment #376966 by Vaal on May 14, 2009 at 2:44 pm

The man is beneath contempt. This should be broadcast on the BBC news. Perhaps he should replace the word atheist with the word black, and see how well that goes down with his flock, the church, and the general population.

I think you were born in the wrong Century, oh acidic dunderheaded one. I am sure the inquisition would sit quite happily with him, and his stupid ilk. Ignorance and intolerance is alive and well in the Catholic church, as portrayed admirably by this pompous self-inflated half-wit.

This should be sent to the Queen, or the prime minister. That will scupper his peerage quicker than the Titanic!

On the other hand, along with Ratzinger, he is doing a grand job of assigning his ridiculous cult to the dustbin of history. A clarion call that they are seriously rattled, and so they should be!

EDIT: Interesting that he thinks he should be a peer after calling a large proportion of the United kingdom population inhuman. That would look well on TV in the house of Lords. Perhaps his quote should be put in large letters on the side of a London bus in the atheist bus campaign?

Other Comments by Vaal

49. Comment #376967 by Goldy on May 14, 2009 at 2:48 pm

Vaal

Perhaps he should replace the word atheist with the word black, and see how well that goes down with his flock, the church, and the general population.

I think Untermensch might work better.


Oh, wait - that's basically what he has called us anyway...

Other Comments by Goldy

50. Comment #376968 by Quetzalcoatl on May 14, 2009 at 2:48 pm

I've always said that Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'Connor is a Grade-A moron. I stand by that assessment.

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