1. Comment #389583 by ina.j on June 20, 2009 at 10:33 am

Hmm... At first I have been so sceptical about London bus campaign slogan, but it has turned out to be the best. I agree with the ideas of NY slogans and others, but they lack the appeal.

Anyway, cool :)

Edit: Donated a miserable sum just to feel a part of something in NY.

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2. Comment #389585 by Thor25 on June 20, 2009 at 10:38 am

Way to go NYC!

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3. Comment #389588 by root2squared on June 20, 2009 at 10:48 am

Not again! What a terrible slogan. As if believing in god has anything to do morality, when in fact it is the exact opposite.

It should really say "You can be moral and ethical even if you believe in god". Because if you believe in god then I don't know if you are acting moral because you are moral or simply because you are afraid of the big sky daddy.

It targets people who are already atheists but may not know there are others like them out there.

Really? These must be pretty dumb atheists if they need reassuring that they can be moral without god.

Edit: This is backed up by prison statistics.
http://www.holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm

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4. Comment #389593 by mordacious1 on June 20, 2009 at 10:55 am

Yes, it should say, "There ain't no god, now piss off".

I think most people in NYC have a good understanding of separation of church and state and that atheists can be moral. Most probably know a few...the bus would make more of an impact in the beeble belt.

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5. Comment #389594 by elpopstardo on June 20, 2009 at 10:57 am

This can only be a good thing, god bless america

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6. Comment #389600 by Joshua Slocum on June 20, 2009 at 11:06 am

It's good to remember that many atheists, rationalists, or secularists - yes, even in liberal bastions such as New York City - do need cultural support and reminding that it's OK for them to stand up and speak out. Convincing theists individually isn't the only goal here. And we will never make a decisive dent in the public discourse by aiming to individually convince theists they're wrong. No social change ever happens that way.

Just as important, and just as vital, is breaking the silence that rationalists and atheists have imposed on themselves. This silence allows the god-botherers to go relatively unchallenged. So many atheists sit quietly, thinking they're the only one in the room, and that to challenge the god-soaked conversation would be rude. Trouble is, the guy or gal sitting next to them is likely to entertain the same thoughts, but they both don't know about each other.

This kind of sloganeering on buses and walls helps break that self-imposed silence. That's important.

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7. Comment #389606 by zeroangel on June 20, 2009 at 11:24 am

I am from New Jersey and grew up on Long Island. I like this slogan, it's rather straight to the point, no nonsense, matter-of-fact, and speaks directly to one of the last bastions of religion in the more or less secular tri-state area. That is to say, many people are loathe to come straight out and admit to atheism, so they hold onto some nebulous Deism because they cling to a notion of objective morality with the Deist god as the standard (which conveniently happens to agree with them).

I like it! Great stuff! Sure its not cutesy, but this is NYC dammit! Furgeddaboutit!

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8. Comment #389607 by Disbelief on June 20, 2009 at 11:24 am

It's good to remember that many atheists, rationalists, or secularists - yes, even in liberal bastions such as New York City - do need cultural support and reminding that it's OK for them to stand up and speak out.

I agree, the more of this there is the more discussion about it there will be and we kick ass in debates.

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9. Comment #389618 by KRKBAB on June 20, 2009 at 11:47 am

Why oh why haven't any of the bus campaigns or any other campaigns used my favorite slogan: "Who needs the supernatural, the natural is super enough!"- Carl Sagan. That is an awesome statement. The NY bus slogan is okay, but we need something better than just an okay slogan. For all my complaints though, it's a start, and that's a good thing.

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10. Comment #389653 by j.mills on June 20, 2009 at 12:56 pm

Dull, timid, but defensible slogan. As usual, I'd rather they'd said "gods" instead of "god": it's an unwitting concession to the monotheists and those who claim that the 'spirituality' in other religions is 'everybody worshipping the same god in different ways'.

But, ya know. Go NYC.

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11. Comment #389670 by NewEnglandBob on June 20, 2009 at 1:45 pm

In New York City the slogan should be more like:

Yo mama; no god. Deal.

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12. Comment #389693 by Mayhemm on June 20, 2009 at 2:39 pm

Cue the whining and offense-taking in 3....2....1...GO!

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13. Comment #389697 by Mr DArcy on June 20, 2009 at 3:03 pm

Did Eve just take a lusty bite out of the BIG APPLE?

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14. Comment #389698 by Rodger T on June 20, 2009 at 3:03 pm

..the bus would make more of an impact in the beeble belt.

Yeah, but Mord ,would it get to its destination with out being fire bombed or would it get any passengers in the babble belt?

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15. Comment #389701 by Steve Zara on June 20, 2009 at 3:10 pm

Comment #389670 by NewEnglandBob

Excellent.

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16. Comment #389704 by Squigit on June 20, 2009 at 3:20 pm

4. Comment #389593 by mordacious1

"...the bus would make more of an impact in the beeble belt."

Good luck getting them to run the campaign there! The Low Country Humanists in Charleston, SC had quite a time with one billboard...all it said was "Don't believe in god? You are not alone"

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17. Comment #389706 by mordacious1 on June 20, 2009 at 3:24 pm

Rodger

Certainly, the first bus would be blown to bits, but after that they'd be escorted by federal marshals everywhere. That's how change happens in the South. :)

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18. Comment #389709 by Glacian on June 20, 2009 at 3:28 pm

Moral OR ethical?! Wow! And hear I thought I could be moral...just not ethical! What a relief.

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19. Comment #389713 by Lucas on June 20, 2009 at 3:45 pm

See, like I said, they were already on it. Still, I'd like to see these in the subway as well.

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20. Comment #389727 by notsobad on June 20, 2009 at 4:34 pm

lame slogan though

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21. Comment #389730 by AfraidToDie on June 20, 2009 at 4:37 pm

I believe it will raise awareness for those who have not already stumbled into a clear thinking oasis like this one. I hope someone is watching the web site hits to see if they increase. Has there been any stats on increased usage or new memberships from the other campaigns?

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22. Comment #389757 by Michael Gray on June 20, 2009 at 5:37 pm

I agree with those posters who have shown this message to be bogus.
Belief in god(s) has been proven over millennia to have a disastrous effect on morality.
This continues to this day, and is supported by prison cohort studies, etc.

If it is YHWH to which they specifically refer, then morality based on this belief is especially nefariously nasty.

I, like Hitchens, contend that the only way to even start being truly moral is to not invent an imaginary capricious dictator-in-the-sky.

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23. Comment #389793 by divalent on June 20, 2009 at 10:22 pm

I agree it would be much better if it said "... believe in *a* god".

Squigit, the advantage of a bus is that they are typically government run, so they can't legally discriminate based on view point (although they try). Billboard companys are private firms, and they can discriminate.

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24. Comment #389794 by mordacious1 on June 20, 2009 at 10:30 pm

Maybe if they added this:

*In fact, it has been shown to be the other way around.

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25. Comment #389797 by kaiser on June 20, 2009 at 11:35 pm

I also think adding an "a" -believing in a god - would be a lot better.

Because this reminds people that there are many, many god and repositions their belief as just one of many thousands like believing in Zeus, Thor, Amen Ra,... .

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26. Comment #390041 by Jack Rawlinson on June 22, 2009 at 9:01 am

Glad to see my second home city getting in on the act. I hope some of those buses go through my old neighbourhood of Williamsburg. Plenty of Hasids and Hispanic Catholics to see the message there!

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27. Comment #390065 by Gary.Hicks on June 22, 2009 at 10:23 am

I use to live in Ireland, which is (and have been for several hundred years) a Catholic stronghold - I sure no one needs reminding of the report a short time ago regarding such luminaries as "The Christian Brothers" et al.

The slogan on the bus is okay as an opening statement, but only if is backup with further adverts that really begin to hit the point home.

I mentioned that I use to live in Ireland as I think such an ad campaign through Dublin, Galway, Cork, Athenry etc would perhaps start people really thinking about exactly what the church does in relation to the stated aims of the church.

Mind you, I'd much rather see news of someone stampeeding cattle through the Vatican (thanks for that wonderful mental image Mel Brooks...)

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28. Comment #390150 by jackybird on June 22, 2009 at 12:55 pm

I agree that the slogan is not catchy but I think this has it's uses. As a New Yorker, I have to say that I have not found it easier to be an atheist here than any other towns in the Northeast, possibly less so. Frequently, if I let it be known that I don't believe in God in a public situation, I am enjoined to remain quiet. Conventional wisdom seems to hold that atheism is a luxury of the professional classes. This is very irritating to me since I have spent most of my life as a skilled manual laborer. Due to intellectual curiosity, I often find myself in social circimstances where I occupy the lowest social status. So professionals are often telling me to pretend that I believe what my parents believed (ironically, atheists) so as not to disturb the worldviews of the lower orders. I was very glad that Hitchens addressed this mistaken conflation of class and atheism in his book. Unfortunately, it continues.

This is a long winded way of saying that I think it is good that the slogan is not overly clever and cannot be percieved as smug or arrogant.

Though I guess it's amusing that people think I'm richer or better educated than I really am if I say I'm an atheist. Maybe that should be a message for the out campaign: Look smart - deny god.

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29. Comment #390307 by Russell Blackford on June 23, 2009 at 3:00 am

I think that the use of low-key, non-provocative slogans like these is the way to go. By now there's plenty of experience of the fact that even these kinds of slogans cause some strong reactions. It's good to get the message out, break the taboo, but maintain the high moral ground. Look, nothing here is offensive. It is simply a reasonable statement, expressed with calm and civility.

I agree that "moral or ethical" is a bit strange. But there is endless confusion as to what these words mean and what difference there is, if any. In that context, it's an oddity that I can accept.

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