Saturday, June 27, 2009 | Reason : In the News | print version

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Salvation at the end of a television show

by Hurriyet DailyNews.com

Thanks to Crapsquire for the English link and CBG for the Turkish link.
English
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/domestic/11952462.asp?scr=1
Turkish
http://www.milliyet.com.tr/Yasam/SonDakika.aspx?aType=SonDakika&ArticleID=1110600&Date=25.06.2009&b=Televizyonda%20dinler%20yarisacak

ISTANBUL - Just when one thought TVshows could not get more outrageous, Kanal T comes up with the idea to make an imam, a priest, a rabbi and a Buddhist monk try to convert 10 atheists. While some fear the program could create problems, a sociologist says this just shows the yearning to learn more about religions.

A new show set to grace Turkish television screens will see a Muslim imam, a Christian priest, a Jewish rabbi and a Buddhist monk competing to turn 10 unbelievers into devotees of their own faith each week.

The show, "Tövbekarlar Yarışıyor," which can be roughly translated as "Penitents Compete," will appear on Kanal T starting in early September. The imam, priest, rabbi and monk will try to convert at least one person in every show.

Kanal T was launched in January 2008 with mostly female presenters in front of the camera and also has a chairwoman managing the media group.

Seyhan Soylu, a famous transsexual known as "Sisi," is the mastermind behind the new religion-themed program and will be moderated by well-known female newscaster Gülgün Feyman. The show’s producer is model Ayşe Önal.
...
Continue reading
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/domestic/11952462.asp?scr=1
____________________________________________________________

Televizyonda dinler yarışacak!

En sonunda bu da oldu. Bir televizyon kanalı eylülde 'Tövbekarlar Yarışıyor' adlı program başlatıyor. 1 imam, 1 papaz ve 1 budist rahip, 10 ataiste kendi dinlerini kabul ettirmeye çalışacak.

Kanal t-elevizyon Genel Müdür Yardımcısı Ahmet Özdemir'in konuyla ilgili yaptığı açıklama şöyle:

• KANAL t-elevizyonu Medya Grup Başkanı Seyhan SOYLU’dan dünya televizyonlarında bir ilk daha…

Yapımcılığını usta gazeteci Ayşe ÖNAL’ın üstlendiği HABERİN KRALİÇESİ GÜLGÜN FEYMAN’NIN MODERATÖLÜĞÜNDE ‘’ TÖVBEKÂR ‘’ İLE HERKESİ İMAN ETMEYE ÇAĞIRIYOR…
• HUZURA BU YARIŞMAYLA KAVUŞACAKSINIZ.
• DÜNYANIN EN BÜYÜK ÖDÜLÜNÜ VERİYORUZ. SİZE TANRI İNANCINI HEDİYE EDİYORUZ.
• TOPRAKTAN GELDİK TOPRAĞA GİDECEĞİZ, DAHA NEYİN KAVGASINI VERİYORUZ?
• Yapımcılığını usta gazeteci Ayşe ÖNAL’ın üstlendiği ve HER HAFTA MODERATÖR GÜLGÜN FEYMAN, İKNA KABİLİYETİ YÜKSEK BİR HAHAM, BİR PAPAZ, BİR BUDİST RAHİP VE TABİÎ Kİ BİR İMAM GÖREV BAŞINDA!
İŞLERİ ZOR, AMAÇLARI KUTSAL… BU ZORLU YARIŞMADA 10 ATAİSTT5EN BİRİ İMANA GELİYOR.
• BİZ SİZİ HAKKA ULAŞTIRIYORUZ.
• İMANA GEL, TÖVBE ET, YARADAN SENİ DE AFFEDER.
• BİZ KUTUPLARI BARIŞTIRIYORUZ, ATEŞLE SUYU BARIŞTIRIYORUZ.
• BİZ YARADILANI YARADAN DA ÖTÜRÜ SEVİYORUZ.
• İSTERDİK Kİ İNSAN; ŞEYTAN’I KALBİNDE TANRI’YA SECDE ETTİRTSİN…
• TOPLUMA DİNLE İLGİLİ NİFAK SOKANLARA KIZIYORUZ.
• NOSTRADAMUS DAHİL BÜTÜN KAHİNLERİN İDDİASINI YALANLARIYORUZ, ‘’DİNLER SAVAŞI ÇIKACAK’’ DEDİLER AMA BİZ HERKES ‘’İNANACAK’’ DİYORUZ…
• MEVLANA’NIN DEDİĞİ GİBİ; ‘KİM OLURSAN OL GEL, TÖVBENİ BİN KERE BOZSAN DA YİNE GEL’
• NEYE İNANIRSAN İNAN; NEYE İNANDIĞIN DEĞİL İNANMIŞ OLMAN ÖNEMLİ; YETER Kİ TÖVBE ET….
• YARIŞMANIN BÜYÜK ÖDÜLÜ TANRIYA ULAŞMAK….
• HER CANLI ÖLÜMÜ TADACAK!
• İNAÇSIZLIK DA BİR İNANÇTIR DİYENLER, KAPIMIZ SİZE AÇIK, BU YARIŞMA SİZİN İÇİN YAPILIYOR.
• BİZ BARIŞI ANLATIYORUZ, İMANA ÇAĞIRARAK UZLAŞMA YARATIYORUZ, PROMOSYON VERMİYORUZ, DÜNYANIN EN BÜYÜK ÖDÜLÜNÜ TANRI İNANCINI VERİYORUZ.
• KANAL televizyon OLARAK DÜNYA VE TÜRKİYE TELEVİZYONLARINDA İLK KEZ YERALACAK BU YARIŞMAYLA, İNANAN VE İNANMAYANLAR KARŞI KARŞIYA? AMA NE İÇİN? DAHA GÜZEL BİR DÜNYA, DAHA GÜZEL BİR TÜRKİYE VE BİRLİK BERABERLİK İÇİN…
...
Continue reading
http://www.milliyet.com.tr/Yasam/SonDakika.aspx?aType=SonDakika&ArticleID=1110600&Date=25.06.2009&b=Televizyonda%20dinler%20yarisacak

Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2009 | Permalink

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1. Comment #391555 by Friend Giskard on June 27, 2009 at 10:19 am

Penitents? To whom does the term penitents refer? The atheists, or the vermin trying to convert them? Neither would seem to fit. Perhaps it's a poor translation.

Other Comments by Friend Giskard

2. Comment #391556 by antx on June 27, 2009 at 10:24 am

I wonder why no atheist is in the line of those who try to convert someone. Atheists seem to be nothing more than the "material" of this show.

However, each episode of this show would give perfect material for bloggers to rip every statement in there apart and align it to reasonable thinking. That would be an interesting project. :-D

Other Comments by antx

3. Comment #391559 by silent mike on June 27, 2009 at 10:37 am

bronze medal :=/

Other Comments by silent mike

4. Comment #391560 by probable_error on June 27, 2009 at 10:37 am

What if the atheist converts the imam and the priest?

Other Comments by probable_error

5. Comment #391561 by TonV on June 27, 2009 at 10:40 am

probable-error: the atheist gets the bonus points but needs police protection home...

Other Comments by TonV

6. Comment #391563 by the great teapot on June 27, 2009 at 10:45 am

First prize - a holiday in the worlds biggest lunatic asylums.
I wouldn't bet on too many conversions.

Other Comments by the great teapot

7. Comment #391564 by probable_error on June 27, 2009 at 10:48 am

@Tonv: Believe me in Turkey police would be more dangerous....

Other Comments by probable_error

8. Comment #391565 by Corylus on June 27, 2009 at 10:48 am

Comment #391563 by the great teapot:

First prize - a holiday in the worlds biggest lunatic asylums.
I wouln't bet on too many conversions.

Well, if there are, I suspect there will be more interest in Judaism than in Islam - at least one can go on a bender in Jerusalem.

Other Comments by Corylus

9. Comment #391566 by the great teapot on June 27, 2009 at 10:53 am

What Corylus, people who believe the Koran don't drink?
Bloody hell, what are they smoking?

Other Comments by the great teapot

10. Comment #391567 by soul_biscuit on June 27, 2009 at 10:53 am

Yet if an ex-atheist is "persuaded" to start following one of the religions, he or she will have the chance to travel to that religion’s center, whether Jerusalem for Christians and Jews or Mecca for Muslims or Tibet for Buddhists.

Well I'm sure they won't get any atheists who pretend to convert, just for a free trip to Tibet. That would be silly!

Other Comments by soul_biscuit

11. Comment #391568 by boneywasa on June 27, 2009 at 10:55 am

I wonder why the emphasis of the show is for atheists to be converted to ANY of the religions so presented?

Surely they should establish first which of the 4 presented is correct, presumably then following a conversion of the other 3 panelists...Then they can mop up the atheistic contestants with ease.

Or perhaps a belief, any belief whatever, is preferable to the stark horror of non at all.

Other Comments by boneywasa

12. Comment #391569 by Corylus on June 27, 2009 at 10:55 am

Comment #391566 by the great teapot:

Bloody hell, what are they smoking?

You're an old cynic, GT

Other Comments by Corylus

13. Comment #391570 by black wolf on June 27, 2009 at 11:00 am

I trust Turkish atheists to keep a very close eye and to blog about it like antx says above. Actually I would recommend to religionists to have a close watch too, because this might turn out to be a chance for them to learn that throwing scripture and superstitionist assertions without evidence at people doesn't work. I hope the atheists are at least moderately well educated, critical thinkers, and that the show allows them to respond and doesn't censor them. I would not put it beneath any religionist (or the show's management) to hire (or be coerced or bribed to hire) fake atheists who then pretend to have been converted.
I hope it's safe in Turkey to go on television as an outspoken atheist.

Hakkı Devrim, a television commentator and columnist for daily Radikal called the idea absurd and said such a show insults religion.

Oh good, then I'm all for it.

"Religion is not a science, and it is not open to discussion," Devrim said, adding that the program offers atheists a chance to voice their own thoughts.

"If I had to describe it with a word, it would be ’unsuitable,’" said the columnist, who advised Kanal T not to take the risk of airing such a show in Turkey.

It's sounding better and better. This guy literally says that religion can not handle any criticism and that any atheist thought is too risky for their fragile fantasies.

Prof. Mustafa Çağrıcı, an Istanbul mufti and the provincial head of the Religious Affairs Directorate, partially agreed with Devrim, saying religions could be discussed, but not on such a television program. He said such an extreme program could create complications in peoples’ minds.

Hopefully. Geez, why don't they just stand up and honestly tell the people they want them stupid and obeisant. Oh right, that 'honestly' word...

"Believe, repent, God will forgive you"

What? They have a Muslim, a Christian, a Jew and a Buddhist sitting there, and they all agree that choosing one of the other religions will not bother God?
I'd like the Abrahamists to explain on television how ignoring the first few of the Ten Commandments is ok with the God who allegedy wrote them in order to make very clear that it was not ok.
I'd like the Christian to explain how denying the deity of Christ and the Resurrection and therefore not being eligible for salvation will get you salvation.
I'd like the Muslim to explain how rejecting the Last Prophet of God is ok with Allah and worthy of forgiveness, when the basic tenets of Islam state the opposite in very clear terms.
I'd like the Jew to explain how he gets the idea that actively converting someone to Judaism has anything to do with the rules of Judaism.

Oh, and the Buddhist might want to explain why he thinks repenting and God's forgiveness are important to his faith. Or maybe he'll just want to laugh at the other three guys. Who will then team up and go medieval on his ass. Really that show could be entertaining.

Other Comments by black wolf

14. Comment #391575 by The Hogfather on June 27, 2009 at 11:13 am

There are as many as 10 Atheists in Turkey? Given the rampant Creationism in that country they might also be the only 10 who accept evolution!!!
Only joking!!!!!

It would be entertaining though if the Imans etc... try to use the Atlas of Creation to convert the Atheists!!

Other Comments by The Hogfather

15. Comment #391579 by Strigoia on June 27, 2009 at 11:41 am

@ soul_biscuit: I would totally do that for a chance to see Mecca. Hear you can't get in if you're not a Muslim. It would make for great Flickr fodder. :D

Other Comments by Strigoia

16. Comment #391580 by mordacious1 on June 27, 2009 at 11:45 am

It's as simple as getting a few muslims to say they are atheits, then the iman turns them to the true religion. The power of the true word wins again.

Other Comments by mordacious1

17. Comment #391581 by amuck on June 27, 2009 at 11:47 am

an imam, a priest, a rabbi and a Buddhist monk walk into a bar ...

It reads like the setup for a really long and complicated joke.

No punchline needed, just read a newspaper or watch a news show.

Other Comments by amuck

18. Comment #391583 by Layla Nasreddin on June 27, 2009 at 11:59 am

Hmm...what does it mean that converting to a new religion has been reduced to a spectacle on a reality-type show? Is it really that superficial now? I'm reminded a bit of the concept behind Channel 4's "Make Me a Muslim" and "Make Me a Christian."

Other Comments by Layla Nasreddin

19. Comment #391585 by gruebait on June 27, 2009 at 11:59 am

If this show is produced at all like the 'reality' shows here in the US, the 'penitents' will all be actors on the payroll, and the outcome will depend on who pays the bills.

Other Comments by gruebait

20. Comment #391587 by mblarson323 on June 27, 2009 at 12:31 pm

Where do I sign up to be converted? Do I win anything if they fail?

Other Comments by mblarson323

21. Comment #391588 by HeathenAngel on June 27, 2009 at 12:34 pm

Oddly enough, I think this might be an interesting show... so long as we are talking about "real atheists" instead of plants that are inserted to make each of the religions seem more... plausible... pleasant... something in between.

Otherwise, it'll end up being just another stupid "reality show".

I would like to see something on the flip-side, however. Why not have a priest, a rabbi, an imam and a monk sit down with the "Four Horsemen" and then check his level of belief afterward? Now THAT'S a show I'd love to see.

Other Comments by HeathenAngel

22. Comment #391591 by Sarmatae1 on June 27, 2009 at 12:43 pm

Strangely it makes me feel better that not just Americans are being exposed to bland, pointless, banal television. I don't know why, it just brings balance to the force.

Other Comments by Sarmatae1

23. Comment #391592 by Sarmatae1 on June 27, 2009 at 12:52 pm

17. Comment #391581 by amuck

Ok old joke but perhaps there is one that hasn't heard it here.

A rabbi, imam and televangelist decide to get together and have a groundbreaking fund raising service. After the service the three are trying to decide how to split the proceeds.

The rabbi says "We should draw a line in the sand and throw the money into the air. What comes down on the left belongs to god, what comes down on the right is for us. The imam says, "No we should draw a circle and throw the money into the air, what comes down inside the circle belongs to god, what comes down outside belongs to us." The televangelist says "No, what I usually do is just throw the money into the air and what god wants he will keep and what comes back down is ours."

Other Comments by Sarmatae1

24. Comment #391596 by Fizzle on June 27, 2009 at 1:01 pm

Other Comments by Fizzle

25. Comment #391599 by NewEnglandBob on June 27, 2009 at 1:12 pm

I have now been convinced that Turkey is a very dangerous and retarded place to avoid during my lifetime.

(...and yes, I avoid every single reality show on TV)

Other Comments by NewEnglandBob

26. Comment #391628 by Layla Nasreddin on June 27, 2009 at 2:24 pm

#25 NewEnglandBob

I have now been convinced that Turkey is a very dangerous and retarded place to avoid during my lifetime.

Unfair...sure there's a lot wrong with Turkey (RD.net being "Banned in Turkey", for instance), but as far as secularism goes, it's about as good as it gets in the Islamic world (admittedly, not a very high standard, but it's something). There are many secular-minded and atheistic Turks who are just as much, if not more, disgusted at what's going on in certain parts of their country than anybody outside looking in. This is hardly Saudi Arabia or Iran! (Not that that's saying much, true...)

Other Comments by Layla Nasreddin

27. Comment #391632 by j.mills on June 27, 2009 at 2:39 pm

Gotta be more interesting than Big Brother. Even if it was all stage-managed, that in itself would get people talking. This might work like the bus adverts.

Other Comments by j.mills

28. Comment #391640 by Crapsquire on June 27, 2009 at 2:54 pm

This idea kind of reminds me of a video by Non Stamp Collector called The Great Debate. Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch�cv=95VTh4FA_gE&feature=channel_page

Edit - Sorry, I can't get the link to work. Just go to You Tube and search for NonStampCollector, The Great Debate. Or just cut and paste the address above.

Other Comments by Crapsquire

29. Comment #391648 by Rodger T on June 27, 2009 at 3:06 pm

Imho,the desired result would be an imam, a priest, a rabbi and a Buddhist monk getting a dose of reality and reason and growing the balls to abandon their chosen delusion .

Other Comments by Rodger T

30. Comment #391657 by Squigit on June 27, 2009 at 3:21 pm

This sounds like it will be just like American "reality" shows: actors paid to pretend to be atheists and each has a great epiphany and converts to the religion of their choice.

21. Comment #391588 by HeathenAngel
"I would like to see something on the flip-side, however. Why not have a priest, a rabbi, an imam and a monk sit down with the "Four Horsemen" and then check his level of belief afterward? Now THAT'S a show I'd love to see."

Because THAT would be too easy; after all, the burden of proof is on religion, not atheists.

Other Comments by Squigit

31. Comment #391660 by NormanDoering on June 27, 2009 at 3:25 pm

antx wrote:
"I wonder why no atheist is in the line of those who try to convert someone."

And why aren't the holy men trying to convert each other? Would that be too dangerous? It's okay to target atheists, but don't try it with someone who has a religion already.

Maybe some of the atheists will wind up converting the imam, the priest, the rabbi and the Buddhist monk? Alas, they're probably not going to get any readers of this site who might be prepared to deal with their bullshit.

If you really want to rip into some preachers, why not get a youtube account?

I did:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oijBG1S2Uc4

Other Comments by NormanDoering

32. Comment #391665 by KRKBAB on June 27, 2009 at 3:40 pm

Layla Nasreddin- I agree with your take on it that it's funny that religion has been reduced to something like this. It gives a little credence to the concept that religion in it's death throes is resorting to extreme and ridiculous acts.

Other Comments by KRKBAB

33. Comment #391666 by KRKBAB on June 27, 2009 at 3:47 pm

NormanDoering- I just checked out your link Zappaliscious! I have one word for you: "Bloodbath". 3 more: "The Fathomless Mastery". Lets's try to convert the religiously deluded to death metal.

Other Comments by KRKBAB

34. Comment #391673 by Shuggy on June 27, 2009 at 4:47 pm

I bet they won't be real "There is no God / I believe in no god/des/ess" atheists," just wishywashy "Well, I think there has to be some kind of Higher Power" pseudoatheists, and four of them will convert to Islam, three to Christianity, two to Judaism and one to Buddhism.

Other Comments by Shuggy

35. Comment #391680 by Demotruk on June 27, 2009 at 5:41 pm

This could be interesting, or possibly not. It really depends on the people involved.

On the atheist side:
-Will there be plants?
-Are they the type who rationally thought about it and came to the conclusion that religion is rubbish, or are they the type who just never got into religion...?
-How scientifically educated are they? How well do they understand the psychology of religion?

On the believer side:
-What techniques will they use? Will they try to rationally explain why their religion isn't bullshit, or will they use a Derren Brown style induced spiritual experience to convert them? The latter from what I've seen is very effective at converting anyone without a good understanding of how our minds work.

Other Comments by Demotruk

36. Comment #391685 by prolibertas on June 27, 2009 at 5:52 pm

Remember, not all atheists are of the scientifically literate, critical-thinker variety that a visit to RD.net might mislead you to think. Many atheists in everyday life are just of the 'indifferent' variety, and wouldn't be able to give a coherent explanation of why falsifiability is important, how evolution works, or a run-down of the arguments for/against God's existence to save their life. These latter kind of atheists might easily be bowled over by something like the Design Argument. My bet is this show will target that sort of 'atheist'. It's the only way the show will work- any atheist who actually knows the arguments already would cripple their whole aspiration to bulldoze atheism so badly that they gain a conversion every single episode.

Other Comments by prolibertas

37. Comment #391687 by Jin on June 27, 2009 at 5:57 pm

Struck me as a funny failure of a show at first until my cynicism kicked in and I realised it was more than possible that the "atheists" will be either hired actors or some pretenders-for-jesus.

Other Comments by Jin

38. Comment #391690 by NormanDoering on June 27, 2009 at 6:01 pm

KRKBAB wrote:
"Lets's try to convert the religiously deluded to death metal."

First I want to get my own death/black metal band together:
http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2009/05/night-of-zombie-cut-me-now.html

Other Comments by NormanDoering

39. Comment #391692 by rod-the-farmer on June 27, 2009 at 6:10 pm

Actually, I find the idea rather interesting. I wonder if it will be offered on YouTube or something, with translations ? I confess to being a bit surprised that Turkey, of all countries, came up with this idea. The UK, sure. France, even. The U.S., hardly. But Turkey ! Good for them.

I will be fascinated to hear of the reaction from the muslim imam, if he is unable to convert anyone. Will he then threaten to stone the infidels ? For that matter, what will be the reaction of any of the religites if they fail to convert even one atheist ? This has a great many possible plot twists. Stay tuned, movie at 11:00.

Other Comments by rod-the-farmer

40. Comment #391699 by KRKBAB on June 27, 2009 at 6:33 pm

NormanDoering- I was able to open your blog, but not able to open the song/video. My computer won't allow it and I'm too stupid to know what to do. Black Metal? Howabout Behemoth.

Other Comments by KRKBAB

41. Comment #391704 by NormanDoering on June 27, 2009 at 7:06 pm

KRKBAB wrote:
"... not able to open the song/video."

Does this work:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBL1X8O9mxw

If so, do you like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7J1_6x3BdQ

Other Comments by NormanDoering

42. Comment #391708 by KRKBAB on June 27, 2009 at 7:29 pm

yep Norman- it worked! What- no cookie monster vocals? (although technically Black Metal employs screeches and C.M. vocals are more Death Metal).

Other Comments by KRKBAB

43. Comment #391725 by Flapjack on June 28, 2009 at 1:36 am

I keep seeing a trailer on Channel 4 (for all the UK viewers) about 'The Alpha Course' with a similar format... i.e. 10 agnostics go to be persuaded. It's on tonight at 7.00pm on Channel 4. From the looks of the trailer, there's only a 1 in 10 success rate. It's called "Revelations: How to find God". I'd be interested to see if they can budge my cynicism even an inch, but I've probably heard it all before.

Other Comments by Flapjack

44. Comment #391751 by BroughtyBoy on June 28, 2009 at 5:06 am

I can see the finale now - "Leatherette bible,...trip to Lourdes,...Teasmade...Gun,.. er..Cuddly toy?"

Other Comments by BroughtyBoy

45. Comment #391902 by prettygoodformonkeys on June 28, 2009 at 4:07 pm

A Muslim, a Christian priest, a Jewish rabbi, a Buddhist monk and ten atheists walk into a bar.

The bartender says: "What is this, some kind of joke?"

Anyway, they would have to be atheists with credentials for this stunt to matter in any way.

Which I suppose is like expecting them to do double-blind testing, or submitting peer-reviewed papers, or, well, thinking.

EDIT: PS: I'll be back with a pun on 'Orwell Thinking'.

Other Comments by prettygoodformonkeys

46. Comment #391918 by Border Collie on June 28, 2009 at 4:44 pm

Must be a David Lynch production.

Other Comments by Border Collie

47. Comment #391921 by huzonfurst on June 28, 2009 at 4:48 pm

In case there's anyone left who still hasn't heard this one:

A Buddhist walks up to a hot dog vendor and says "Make me one with everything." He gives the vendor a twenty and asks for change, whereupon the vendor replies "Change comes from within."

Other Comments by huzonfurst

48. Comment #391923 by Border Collie on June 28, 2009 at 4:49 pm

And if they don't convert? Do they reserve a show a month for the special group beheadings of apostates and heretics? I'm gonna go projectile vomit.

Other Comments by Border Collie

49. Comment #392120 by Flapjack on June 29, 2009 at 8:29 am

That Alpha course documentary on channel 4 I mentioned turned out to be fairly impartial compared to others I've seen, but here's the link for those curious to see what goes on behind closed doors... "Revelations - How to find God"
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/revelations/4od#2926795
It appears that their success rate is 1 in 8.

Other Comments by Flapjack

50. Comment #392123 by CaptainMandate on June 29, 2009 at 8:46 am