Saturday, July 4, 2009 | Reason : In the News | print version

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Residents want sign promoting atheism removed

by 7 News Ft. Lauderdale Fl

Thanks to Jay-El for the link.
http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/MI124870/

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. (WSVN) -- Community residents are protesting a billboard they call offensive to Christians.

The recruitment billboard put up by the Florida Atheist and Secular Humanist Society stands just east of Interstate 95 on Sunrise Boulevard and 27th Avenue, next to a business owned by an African-American preacher.

The members of the community cite two main problems: born-again Christians own the business right next to the sign, and the billboard is located right in the middle of an African-American community.

Neighboring businesses have called to try to get the sign removed. "Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Christian, whoever you are, we all believe in a spiritual higher being. When you have something like this here, people don't want to come and patronize us anymore," said Theodore Hamilton, an employee at a nearby business. "We don't agree with this. We don't like this here in our community, and this is a spiritual based community."

The sign states: "Being a good person doesn't require God. Don't believe in God? You're not alone. www.FreeThoughtFlorida.com."

Ken Loukinen, President of FLASH, said he had no intention of offending anyone when he paid to put the sign up. "We didn't want to incense anybody or put a derogatory statement in there," he said. "The two statements there, the first one, is basically to the public to let them know that atheists can be good, moral people, and the second part of the message is to other free thinkers who are in Broward County or in the area that may see this, that there is an organization that supports them."

But, business owners said, the sign has affected their income. Aavion McDonald works at the hair and beauty salon located right below the billboard. "There are people that come in here complaining about the sign," he said, "and that's not good for the business, and it's not good for the neighborhood."
...
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Posted: Saturday, July 4, 2009 | Permalink

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1. Comment #393374 by Dhamma on July 4, 2009 at 6:55 pm

Their christian signs are offensive to atheists.

Other Comments by Dhamma

2. Comment #393375 by Shuggy on July 4, 2009 at 6:56 pm

Someone should ask them, "Do you think the sign is not true? If so, do you think that being a good person does require God? Or that only one atheist will ever read the sign [if more, it's true: they are not alone]? If the sign is true, what is your objection to it?"

Trouble is, their doctrine of Original Sin probably does make them think that being a good person requires God, and that without God they would be even more wicked than they are now.

Isn't it racist to claim that African-Americans are all theists?

Other Comments by Shuggy

3. Comment #393376 by kraut on July 4, 2009 at 6:56 pm

Every church building is offensive to an atheist.
We have to live with it.

Other Comments by kraut

4. Comment #393377 by Frankus1122 on July 4, 2009 at 7:01 pm

It doesn't offend them so much as scare them because they can see the truth in it.

Other Comments by Frankus1122

5. Comment #393378 by Econbehemoth18 on July 4, 2009 at 7:17 pm

As a Jewish atheist who identifies with the cultural aspects of Judaism while rejecting the dogma and belief in god, I really don't appreciate how Theodore Hamilton said that all Jews believe in god, much less how he insinuated that all Jews ought to be offended by that billboard sign. The guy's speaking out of ignorance.

Other Comments by Econbehemoth18

6. Comment #393380 by paddo on July 4, 2009 at 7:27 pm

Freedom of speech is such a bummer for American christians. Imagine a life spent in a perpetual state of being offended! They should take heart at the fact that St Paul is now less offended as good christians refrain from preening their immodest vanity at the salon.

Other Comments by paddo

7. Comment #393381 by Tack on July 4, 2009 at 7:28 pm

If they took down all those "Jesus is Lord" billboards, maybe then I'd not think they were transparently hypocritical wankers.

Other Comments by Tack

8. Comment #393382 by NewEnglandBob on July 4, 2009 at 7:29 pm

Eh, screw 'em if they can't take a joke.

Oh wait, we aren't joking. We actually mean what the sign says, unlike the hypocritical religionists.

Other Comments by NewEnglandBob

9. Comment #393384 by Diacanu on July 4, 2009 at 7:33 pm

Let's see 'em have the balls to make similar mewlings at some fucking Muslims.

Other Comments by Diacanu

10. Comment #393385 by Cartomancer on July 4, 2009 at 7:38 pm

When you have something like this here, people don't want to come and patronize us anymore

Au contraire my silly christian friend, I'm sure there are thousands of people willing to be extremely patronizing towards you...

Other Comments by Cartomancer

11. Comment #393389 by skeet on July 4, 2009 at 7:56 pm

There is a "HELL IS REAL" billboard near my home, and every day I imagine putting one up a couple hundred feet after it that just says "LOL"

Other Comments by skeet

12. Comment #393390 by Frankus1122 on July 4, 2009 at 8:03 pm

Comment #393389 by skeet

LOL

:D

Other Comments by Frankus1122

13. Comment #393391 by j.mills on July 4, 2009 at 8:21 pm

The comments of folks in this article highlight again how alien rationality is to theists. Thus:

"Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Christian, whoever you are, we all believe in a spiritual higher being..."

...This guy is happy to make common cause with religions that explicitly deny the truth of his own, with even more certainty than an atheist would express.

"...this is a spiritual based community."

Anybody's guess what that means.

"Nothing else matters, but that sign needs to come down. In the name of Jesus," Big Mama chanted

Let's forget, for instance, world poverty, the war in Iraq, malaria, swine flu, socialised medicine: nope, all that matters is that sign!

"It says 'Do not believe in God.'"

No it doesn't.

"...How are we going to make it? Look at our schools, everyday. Everyday there's something going on..."

Can't argue with that.

"...Kids are out here killing each other, kids are here using drugs..."

So much for the "spiritual based community"...

"...Who else are they going to believe in?"

Hmm. Themselves? Not you, madam, at any rate.

Other Comments by j.mills

14. Comment #393393 by Daves reality on July 4, 2009 at 8:31 pm

christians plus signs = atheists plus signs
the following equation is not a logical algebraic next step
christians plus signs = (atheists plus signs) minus signs

Other Comments by Daves reality

15. Comment #393394 by RightWingAtheist on July 4, 2009 at 8:37 pm

Gotta love those born-yesterday Christians.

You can be good without god? I'm offended!

Other Comments by RightWingAtheist

16. Comment #393397 by RightWingAtheist on July 4, 2009 at 8:47 pm

I just noticed something. I thought "we can't have this sign here because we're Christians" was ridiculous.

But "we can't have this sign here because...we're black?"

Other Comments by RightWingAtheist

17. Comment #393399 by Hellene on July 4, 2009 at 8:49 pm

I think this billboard is absolutely wonderful.
Exactly what America, and in particular Florida, needs.

Other Comments by Hellene

18. Comment #393400 by j.mills on July 4, 2009 at 8:52 pm

And don't forget: "We can't have this sign here because our customers are [allegedly] so dumb and bigoted that they won't frequent our stores because of the unrelated billboard nearby."

Other Comments by j.mills

19. Comment #393401 by moniz on July 4, 2009 at 9:03 pm

I don't remember it seeing anywhere in the American Constitution, that Americans have a right to not be offended. Free speech can be a bitch sometimes.

Other Comments by moniz

20. Comment #393402 by mbj on July 4, 2009 at 9:04 pm

Psh, wah. I just drove through northern Alabama, Tennessee, and Kentucky, and I saw tons of religious billboards. "Jesus Loves You!" "If you died today, where would you spend eternity?" "Jesus died for our sins." "HELL IS REAL." (Skeet, do you live near I-65, by chance?) We're obviously entitled to our own.

Other Comments by mbj

21. Comment #393404 by Jedi Knight on July 4, 2009 at 9:13 pm

I just wonder how long it takes one of them good Christians to deface the sign??

Other Comments by Jedi Knight

22. Comment #393405 by Dr Doctor on July 4, 2009 at 9:23 pm

The fight for equality in the "land of the free" seems as ever so far from being won. If such basic ideas as the right to be a non believer, the right of a non believer to publicly state their point of view are yet to be accepted by the general public what hope for the cause of promoting secular humanism?

Statements such as "spiritual based community" are saying atheists are unwelcome.

I can only hope that in Florida the news media are the same as they are anywhere in the world - interested in selective quoting, and gathering sound-bites from extremists merely to stoke their own readership in line with an editorial direction.

Still, spiritual based community also sounds like a ghetto. Perhaps the intolerant believers feel hemmed in and are actually a noisy minority?

Insane. Illogical. Let them show themselves up, IMO. That is one thing the atheistic adverts have invariably achieved wherever they have been tried.

Anyone claiming that something has effected business is either worried their claims are not strong enough or is sneakily threatening to sue for damages. Perhaps the congregation are worried about God's vengeance. In that case, let the sign stand, the longer it goes without God's vengeance the more foolish they are going to feel..

Other Comments by Dr Doctor

23. Comment #393406 by aleph8 on July 4, 2009 at 9:26 pm

There are a pair of billboards near where I live in Iowa... The top one just says JESUS in ginormous white letters with a deep blue background. The bottom one is a McDonalds breakfast sandwich ad that has a small picture of the sandwich and the words "beefy cheesy glory"...

Seems to about sum up evangelical xtianity...

Other Comments by aleph8

24. Comment #393407 by Fizzle on July 4, 2009 at 9:26 pm

Shouldn't it say FreeThoughtFlorida?

And about the signs...fuck 'em, really, free speech is for all.

Other Comments by Fizzle

25. Comment #393408 by /Mike on July 4, 2009 at 9:47 pm

Thanks for pointing out the typo in the FreeThoughtFlorida url. I'd just copy/pasted in the text from the article when I posted it. I do usually check the links that I add but I don't proof the articles themselves - the typo is as it was on the Faux News article. It's now edited so that it points to the correct url.

Other Comments by /Mike

26. Comment #393410 by critica on July 4, 2009 at 9:58 pm

Notice that assertions such as 'Jesus is Lord'and much worse are not seen as controversial, while simple comments suggesting morality is not exclusive to the religious (which I really haven't heard anyone argue against - just that it all comes from god) are seen as offensive.

This is a huge double standard and bespeakes nothing so much as the insecurity of believers who fear to have their foundational beliefs questioned.

Other Comments by critica

27. Comment #393411 by Invalid Username on July 4, 2009 at 10:04 pm

"Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Christian, whoever you are, we all believe in a spiritual higher being."
Clearly not true, and very presumptuous of them to make that claim.

"When you have something like this here, people don't want to come and patronize us anymore..." I suspect this is simply his perception, unsubstantiated by actual sales analysis. Besides, even if their business is down, then clearly the neighborhood people are way too easily influenced by static advertisements, and when the 4 weeks are up, they can rent the billboard themselves and put their own message up saying what a great business they are and then they will rake in the profits...

"We don't agree with this. We don't like this here in our community, and this is a spiritual based community." Very presumptuous again; atheists are just as much a part of the community as they are.

Other Comments by Invalid Username

28. Comment #393414 by serenitatis on July 4, 2009 at 10:28 pm

The message is great. The country could use a few more billboards like this.

Other Comments by serenitatis

29. Comment #393415 by iflos on July 4, 2009 at 10:41 pm

I wonder what they would say about a sign that reads 'The Flying Spaghetti Monster is Lord'!

Other Comments by iflos

30. Comment #393417 by arthurk13 on July 4, 2009 at 11:15 pm

I think we owe a big thank you to the people raising all the fuss and giving the Florida atheists the free publicity. Hopefully they'll be able to raise enough money to keep the sign up there longer.

Other Comments by arthurk13

31. Comment #393418 by Spinoza on July 4, 2009 at 11:30 pm

Florida is home to painfully large numbers of the least agreeable people I have ever met. Awful, racist, vile, stupid... Dave Barry may be the only exception (but I've never met him, unfortunately).

Other Comments by Spinoza

32. Comment #393420 by Buchner on July 4, 2009 at 11:34 pm

I'm just wondering how much of this is simply a paper 'getting up a story'.

To what extent are these the protests of publicity seeking individuals egged on by the media and to what extent do they really represent widespread anger in the community?

Surely most Americans still value freedom of speech?

As an outsider I find it hard to believe these reports give a completely accurate picture.

Other Comments by Buchner

33. Comment #393423 by Jos Gibbons on July 5, 2009 at 12:12 am

These protesters are basically like Ratty from the Wind in the Willows in the following imaginary exchange.
Ratty: The river is the only thing.
Mole: No, there's some other cool stuff too.
Badger: You're not alone in that opinion.
Toad: www.motorcarsarecool.com.
Ratty: I'm offended! All of you, take it back right now!

Of course in the real novel Ratty is a very agreeable sort, but his "only thing" mantra was a good parallel here, even if he'd never act like that.

Do even these Christians think that the conclusion of that conversation would make sense?

Other Comments by Jos Gibbons

34. Comment #393426 by friendlypig on July 5, 2009 at 12:37 am

Is education so bad in this County that people don't recognise 'question marks', turning statements into questions?

Other Comments by friendlypig

35. Comment #393428 by DamnDirtyApe on July 5, 2009 at 12:53 am

This'll never stand up in court.
If it does, could always sue the town.

My argument would be this:

The laws America was founded on were not written down on tablets handed personally to you by god. They were written by PEOPLE. This is the proof that we can live without god. People met up and decided how to govern themselves. This is FACT.

If they can't grasp that, they should be laughed at like Karl Pilkington by Ricky Gervais.

Other Comments by DamnDirtyApe

36. Comment #393429 by Michael Gray on July 5, 2009 at 1:17 am

At least Ft. Lauderdale is home to one of the most rational entities on this planet:

The James Randi Educational Foundation.

(Forgive me Josh if the above hyperlink does not appear correctly, but until you get your backside into gear, and provide your minions with a workable preview facility, as many simple blogs are able to provide, it remains a random hit & miss affair as to whether contributions render as intended.
This is a clear HINT, by the way)

Other Comments by Michael Gray

37. Comment #393430 by krazyowl on July 5, 2009 at 2:19 am

Have these people heard of the First Amendment?

Other Comments by krazyowl

38. Comment #393432 by Shuggy on July 5, 2009 at 2:35 am

36. Comment #393429 by Michael Gray on July 5, 2009

(Forgive me Josh if the above hyperlink does not appear correctly, but until you get your backside into gear, and provide your minions with a workable preview facility, as many simple blogs are able to provide, it remains a random hit & miss affair as to whether contributions render as intended.

You can always modify your posts after submitting them, unlike most of those simple blogs. But it is a mystery to me why these threads use HTML while the forum uses BBC. Who would guess that <blockquote> here means the same as [quote] there? (It took four tries to make that work.)

Other Comments by Shuggy

39. Comment #393434 by mattincinci on July 5, 2009 at 2:46 am

the large amount of religious signs in the south are the reaction to the very few atheist signs that have been put up, their faith is weak and they are afraid of having it questioned. if you havent watched the video click on the video link on the same page.

"Have these people heard of the First Amendment?"

probably not lol

"Is education so bad in this County that people don't recognise 'question marks', turning statements into questions?"

yes it is that bad

"The message is great. The country could use a few more billboards like this."

a few? how about every city in every state!

Other Comments by mattincinci

40. Comment #393436 by GBile on July 5, 2009 at 3:00 am

One of the complaints of the billboard is that it seems to affect business in a nearby 'hair and beauty salon'.
Now what about this interference from the man upstairs:

Jesus and adult video

Other Comments by GBile

41. Comment #393437 by Max of Earlobes on July 5, 2009 at 3:01 am

Freedom of speech!

Other Comments by Max of Earlobes

42. Comment #393439 by ANTIcarrot on July 5, 2009 at 3:05 am

In all fairness, that is a fairly ugly sign.

Still, better an ugly sign than an ugly message - as contained in oh so many christian billboards.

Other Comments by ANTIcarrot

43. Comment #393442 by mmurray on July 5, 2009 at 3:28 am

Who would guess that blockquote here means the same as [quote] there? (It took four tries to make that work.)

Anyone who clicked on [Comment Posting Guidelines] ?

Back on topic:

We didn't want to incense anybody

Exactly right. Leave that to the Catholics and Hindus.

Michael

Other Comments by mmurray

44. Comment #393443 by TheLordHumungus on July 5, 2009 at 3:33 am

Kids are out here killing each other, kids are here using drugs. Who else are they going to believe in?

Is that woman so blind not to notice that these kids were not brought up in an atheist majority but a christian majority? It is a much greater probability that it was the religious system that failed these kids, NOT atheism!

Other Comments by TheLordHumungus

45. Comment #393450 by rod-the-farmer on July 5, 2009 at 4:09 am

Suppose I were a vegetarian, and lived near a sign promoting Burger King etc. Would I then have the right to be offended, and demand the sign be removed ? Or will I burn in hell for asking ?

Onward, christians smoulder.

Other Comments by rod-the-farmer

46. Comment #393451 by weesam on July 5, 2009 at 4:20 am

3. Comment #393376 by kraut on July 4, 2009 at 6:56 pm
Every church building is offensive to an atheist.
We have to live with it.

hmm; as an atheist I have to disagree with that.

Churches can be sublimely beautiful, peaceful and awe-inspiring places: from the bewildering ornate decorations of St. Gallen to a bare, simple Norman church in the English countryside.

Other Comments by weesam

47. Comment #393452 by Rawhard Dickins on July 5, 2009 at 4:20 am

It is understandable that people with an incomplete world-view may be offended.

Other Comments by Rawhard Dickins

48. Comment #393458 by Peej on July 5, 2009 at 4:47 am

Essie "Big Mama" Reed really needs to read that sign and think about it a bit because it clearly has registered.

Other Comments by Peej

49. Comment #393463 by kev_s on July 5, 2009 at 5:18 am

Re: Comment #393389 by skeet on July 4
That suggests an idea: why not print some very-hard-to-remove stickers with just 'LOL' on them so we can fix them to religious posters? Or is that idea too militant? Edit: We could call it the 'Atheist LOL campaign'.

Other Comments by kev_s

50. Comment #393466 by Squigit on July 5, 2009 at 5:30 am

10. Comment #393385 by Cartomancer

LOL! I saw that, too and thought about the same thing....

Other Comments by Squigit

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