Thursday, September 17, 2009 | Reason : Wingnut News | print version

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Kirk Cameron has gone too far! But we can stop him.

by Kirk Cameron has gone too far! But we can stop him - Facebook

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN9zpf5cT0M

On Thursday November 19, 2009, Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort (the banana guy) will be distributing 50,000 copies of Charles Darwin's 'Origin of Species' at universities across America to students for free.

BUT THERE'S A CATCH!!

Each copy will have a 50 page intro about how evolution has never been proven and how Darwin helped inspire the Holocaust.

You can watch this video for more information:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN9zpf5cT0M

Or read the 50 page intro here:
http://assets.livingwaters.com/pdf/OriginofSpecies.pdf

If this outrages you, then you're not alone. There's something we can do though. We can amass as many of these books as possible, remove the 50 page intro, and then donate perfectly good copies of 'Origin of Species' to schools, libraries, and Goodwill. We can actually make this into something positive.

If you are in college, then you are in a good position to help. Check your campus on November 19th, and if you see a group distributing copies of the book, then get as many as you can. Get a copy for yourself, ask if you can have extra copies for your friends, ask your friends to go ask for copies, and ask other people you see carrying the book if you can have their copy.

This is a shameful thing that Kirk Cameron and the Banana Guy are doing by altering another person's book in order to push their agenda. But we can help to restore the book to how it was intended and keep young minds from being brainwashed by misinformation.
...
Go to Facebook group
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=155609217391

50 Page Intro saved on RDFRS server
http://c0122981.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/090917BananaManIntro.pdf

Posted: Thursday, September 17, 2009 | Permalink

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1. Comment #416199 by Tagred on September 17, 2009 at 2:01 pm

Isn't that an example of plagiarism, libel defamation, or just plain old copyright infringement£

If i were a publisher with the rights to the original books i would be pretty livid at that. But i'm not a lawyer so i have no clue.

At the very least it's a dishonest and despicable thing to do.

Other Comments by Tagred

2. Comment #416200 by seabala on September 17, 2009 at 2:03 pm

The lengths these guys would stoop to is just appalling. I'm looking forward to how this would turn out. I'm hoping American uni students won't let us down.

Other Comments by seabala

3. Comment #416201 by Anvil on September 17, 2009 at 2:03 pm

We should give out 50,000 copies of the Holey Babble with a 50 page foreword on the creation of the Banana!

Anvil.

ps: Actually, I would dearly love to own one of these books!

Other Comments by Anvil

4. Comment #416204 by LP222 on September 17, 2009 at 2:10 pm

Most students have already made up their minds. I doubt there are that many on the fence. Besides they have no time to read propaganda. My guess is they will just make asses of themselves. Let them pass it out, its good information. There little inserts will speak for themselves. Any intelligent student will see right through it.

Other Comments by LP222

5. Comment #416205 by Mark Jones on September 17, 2009 at 2:10 pm

Nice way to spoil a great book. I wonder if their additional material is in a handy 'pull out and bin' format?

Other Comments by Mark Jones

6. Comment #416206 by Bruno on September 17, 2009 at 2:11 pm

This whole "Darwin inspired the Holocaust" thing is the biggest piece of propaganda to come around since, well, the publication of Mein Kampf to be exact. Which was itself a propaganda tool, to the study and practice of propaganda. Surprisingly, most Christians freely admit to never have read it (I've asked them whenever they bring up the Ben Stein inspired Darwin/Holocaust argument). Does Hitler ever mention Darwin in his magnum opus? No. But what single book DOES Hitler quote all the way through Mein Kampf? ...What book does he repeatedly quote from to justify his present (early 1930s) and future actions? You guessed it. The Holy Bible. This simple fact needs to be hammered home whenever kooky Christians bring it up.

Other Comments by Bruno

7. Comment #416207 by Sally Luxmoore on September 17, 2009 at 2:11 pm

What a nutter.

However, for me, this is a sign that he knows his side is losing.
Of course the losing side will kick back, but my hope is that all Kirk is doing is drawing attention to the fact that they are losing.
If what he is saying about the atheism of teachers and lecturers is true, then that's very good news.

I agree absolutely with the idea of razoring out those first 50 pages.

Other Comments by Sally Luxmoore

8. Comment #416208 by Rawhard Dickins on September 17, 2009 at 2:12 pm

Everything came from nothing eh?

OK, God made himself.

Other Comments by Rawhard Dickins

9. Comment #416209 by seabala on September 17, 2009 at 2:12 pm

Skimming through the 50 page intro.... "chance - accident - analogy of paper materialising out of nowhere". I think I even read "specified complexity" somewhere...whatever that means.

Other Comments by seabala

10. Comment #416211 by Coel on September 17, 2009 at 2:19 pm

or just plain old copyright infringement. If i were a publisher with the rights to the original books i would be pretty livid at that.

11. Comment #416212 by Mango on September 17, 2009 at 2:19 pm

Cameron states early in the video that the most esteemed biology and psychology professors in the US are largely atheist or agnostic. Talk about making an "own goal."

Other Comments by Mango

12. Comment #416213 by Sally Luxmoore on September 17, 2009 at 2:20 pm

Comment #416206 by Bruno

That's a very good point. Is there any way of counting all the biblical refs in Mein Kampf? It would be good to have a number, especially if it's a high one.
Then it's just a case of:
Bible refs - 100 (say)
Darwin refs - 0.

This would be a great way of countering those stupid 'Hitler followed Darwin' arguments.

Other Comments by Sally Luxmoore

13. Comment #416214 by Tyler Durden on September 17, 2009 at 2:20 pm

Only six minutes of video, yet so many lies.

Is this what religion does to you, or can we pass this stunt of as a brain aneurysm?

Other Comments by Tyler Durden

14. Comment #416217 by Dhamma on September 17, 2009 at 2:26 pm

Skimmed it through. It's just the usual arguments that have been refuted so nicely before. Nothing to care about.

After the first 50 pages, they'll be presented with a lovely presentation of evolution.

Other Comments by Dhamma

15. Comment #416218 by God fearing Atheist on September 17, 2009 at 2:26 pm

Just for clarification, I assume the 50 page IDtro will be bound into the book. What is the plan to remove the IDtro, make it presentable again, and pass it onto schools, libraries etc? Does that need book binders; require money ...?

Other Comments by God fearing Atheist

16. Comment #416219 by Ilovelucy on September 17, 2009 at 2:28 pm

Actually, I think that removing the introduction will probably result n the following.

1: Make the physical hardback book itself structurally weak and probably not worth giving out.

2. The missing pages will simply create an impression of censorship and with that a desire to read the original introduction, but will also add grist to the fallacious ideas of Ben Stein that creationists are being censored.

So, in short, I think the proposal above concerning removing the introduction is a bad idea.

Other Comments by Ilovelucy

17. Comment #416220 by Mango on September 17, 2009 at 2:29 pm

Cameron says the Bible and intelligent design are being "censored," (@ 3:11) and to counter that he and his ilk are going to distribute 50,000 copies of their propaganda on campuses. So are they being censored, or aren't they? Clearly he feels censored unless he's able to hand out bibles to school children.

I shrieked when Ray Comfort leapt into view! How appropriate is, "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!"

Other Comments by Mango

18. Comment #416223 by scoobie on September 17, 2009 at 2:33 pm

That's a pretty clever stunt they're pulling there. Deeply offensive, amusing and guaranteed to create publicity however well or badly it goes down.

Ripping out the intro is one thing, but perhaps another way to win this battle would be to make it impossible for them to unload their product; to make their efforts so laughable that they won't even be able to give the books away.

They've shot their bolt now and are locked into going through with it. It shouldn't be beyond the wit of the non-nutters to think of a suitable riposte and course of action over the next two months that shoots them down in flames and leaves them with tons of ignored product.

Maybe something which shows how only a dickhead could possibly believe that god exists because bananas fit in our hands? I know, coming up with something that makes that pair look more ridiculous than they already are is going to be a challenge!

Other Comments by scoobie

19. Comment #416224 by prashanth.jana on September 17, 2009 at 2:34 pm

I find it so funny that these people go to such lengths to convince people of their belief.. However that is no excuse for defaming the book !!!
Kirk !! why dont you publish your own book on this and let us see how many copies are sold !!! No wonder you are handing out free copies !!!

Other Comments by prashanth.jana

20. Comment #416226 by Sally Luxmoore on September 17, 2009 at 2:36 pm

Re Hitler being a catholic - these are useful sites:

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/quotes_hitler.html

http://nobeliefs.com/hitler.htm

Good amunition against the anti- Darwinists.

Other Comments by Sally Luxmoore

21. Comment #416228 by melissabove on September 17, 2009 at 2:39 pm

Watching the beginning of that youtube video already gives you an idea of how deluded these people are... their victim-based mentality is so disgusting and dishonest.

Kids are no longer allowed to pray in public? Kids can't open Bibles in schools? Gideons can't pass out Bibles anymore? 10 commandments can't be displayed in public places anymore?

I don't know about Europe, but Cameron is the American brand of fundie douche bag, and in America, all of those things are more than acceptable. My first day of PUBLIC university ever year we get harassed by the Gideons. I have so many scrap paper green new testaments I don't think I could come up with enough grocery lists in my lifetime to find use for them all.

Anyway, I'll be out taking those books. I'm sure non-students can easily do the same. You can't tell who is a student and who is not... just visit your nearest college campus wearing a back pack.

Other Comments by melissabove

22. Comment #416231 by SilentMike on September 17, 2009 at 2:43 pm

I think this is good. It's good that the goofy "way of the master" young earth clowns are now presenting the "intelligent design case". It exposes ID for what it is. Believe me that the discovery institute is not happy about the banana people using their term. This is good for us because these guys are so transparent.

I agree that it's a great idea for American atheists to take as many of these as possible. But I also have a what I think is a better idea. Why not have our own books printed, add a forward by a bunch of leading scientists (They'll be queuing up I'm sure) and flood libraries with those. They'll surely take that addition over the banana edition. A person like Richard Dawkins should have no problem finding sponsors for such an endeavor.

Other Comments by SilentMike

23. Comment #416233 by beanson on September 17, 2009 at 2:44 pm

Christ, if I got hold of one of these books I would prize it. It's like that yaya book- everyone wants a copy now don't they. It'll be a collectors item in a few years I expect

Please banana man come to England

Doesn't he look a bit like Ron Jeremy though? (a whole other take on banana man!)

Other Comments by beanson

24. Comment #416234 by mmmcheezy on September 17, 2009 at 2:44 pm

Just joined the facebook group and invited all of the friends I knew would be sympathetic to the fight.

Other Comments by mmmcheezy

25. Comment #416235 by Jos Gibbons on September 17, 2009 at 2:45 pm

I recommend we all vote with our feet by fairly rating the YouTube video.

Other Comments by Jos Gibbons

26. Comment #416236 by God fearing Atheist on September 17, 2009 at 2:45 pm

I suggest a good counter to this is to advertise this heavily in the 50-100 biology depts. concerned. I am sure loads of biology majors would be happy to get a free copy of "Origin", and out compete the law students for the handouts. If each Bio. dept organised seminars around the 50 page IDtro they could have great fun for a week intellectually shredding it. If lectures and seminars were open to all Uni. students they could minimise misinformation to law studemts etc.

Given a bit of effort by 50 Bio. depts, they could turn the tables on the IDiots, and as well as deprive them of a political victory, cost them a fortune in printing costs.

EDIT: Wrong! See:- 41. Comment #416253 by severalspeciesof and subsequent comments -- OoS has beed "edited" down to half size by a minister!!!

Other Comments by God fearing Atheist

27. Comment #416237 by The Madder Hat on September 17, 2009 at 2:46 pm

Is this the same 'abridged' version of OOS I read about on Pharyngula a while back? If so, then I think hopes are too high that people will learn anything about evolution after the introduction.

Other Comments by The Madder Hat

28. Comment #416238 by PJG on September 17, 2009 at 2:48 pm

This has to the the most despicable thing I have seen for many years. Morality comes from the BuyBull? Yeah, right!

Other Comments by PJG

29. Comment #416239 by toomanytribbles on September 17, 2009 at 2:50 pm

richard dawkins:

'Everything came from nothing eh?

OK, God made himself. '

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Other Comments by toomanytribbles

30. Comment #416240 by severalspeciesof on September 17, 2009 at 2:51 pm

If this is a repeat, apologies, my last submit went off into la-la land...

Would it be possible to cobble together a succinct 5 page (or so) rebuttal to this, and have it available for downloading so that we could insert it/glue it into the copies we get (instead of ripping out the 50 pages, whereby they would then scream out "See!!! They're censoring us, just like we told you!!!") ?

Other Comments by severalspeciesof

31. Comment #416241 by IPV4 on September 17, 2009 at 2:54 pm

This guy is out of his mind. It's a shame, this guy use to be an amazing actor until his religion got in his way.

Other Comments by IPV4

32. Comment #416242 by Vaal on September 17, 2009 at 2:55 pm

To paraphrase Obama, what a jackass!

Other Comments by Vaal

33. Comment #416243 by spetroxx on September 17, 2009 at 2:55 pm

This tells me that these idiots are scared that their nonsensical creationist memes are actually being threatened. That is good news!!!! These fools are wasting the money of their financial supporters on something that most intelligent college students will see through immediately.

Other Comments by spetroxx

34. Comment #416244 by treelobster1 on September 17, 2009 at 2:57 pm

Perhaps the most cost-effective response would be to do like Cobb County did and add a disclaimer sticker to each book. The wording could be something as simple as "WARNING: The ideas depicted in the first 50 pages of this book are fictitious. Any similarity to scientific theories, living or dead, is purely coincidental."

Other Comments by treelobster1

35. Comment #416245 by boogerjames on September 17, 2009 at 2:57 pm

Do we really need to censor these folks. They are after all giving out free copies of the origin of species. I really think if anyone reads the whole book they will realize what a twat Ray Comfort really is. Plus I'm not really big on censorship. Let these kooks have their silly forward.

Also, If someone gets a hold of one of these books, I will pay for the shipping to send me one. You can send me an email at abramjlarson@gmail.com.

Other Comments by boogerjames

36. Comment #416246 by God fearing Atheist on September 17, 2009 at 2:59 pm

29. Comment #416239 by toomanytribbles on September 17, 2009 at 2:50 pm
richard dawkins:

'Everything came from nothing eh?

OK, God made himself. '

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

8. Comment #416208 by Rawhard Dickins on September 17, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Everything came from nothing eh?

OK, God made himself.

Please don't confuse "Rawhard Dickins" with "Richard Dawkins"!!!

Other Comments by God fearing Atheist

37. Comment #416248 by Jos Gibbons on September 17, 2009 at 3:00 pm

I debunked the entire video with four comments I posted. Oh, but wait, they're pending approval. They shan't be appearing any time soon. Who really censors?

Other Comments by Jos Gibbons

38. Comment #416249 by Adrian Bartholomew on September 17, 2009 at 3:00 pm

I’m with Ilovelucy (Comment #416219) on this one. In fact I would go further and ask which will have more impact? The badly written 50 pages of bullshit or DARWIN!!! I say Darwin will win and that this is actually a big backfire on the religionists.

My only concerns are 1) that people won’t read past the 50 pages and 2) that they mess around with the actual text of Darwin’s Origin.

Other Comments by Adrian Bartholomew

39. Comment #416250 by JuJu on September 17, 2009 at 3:01 pm

Its funny how he says he wants students to make their own decision about whats true. That is, he only wants them to decide between his gods creation myth and the only proven theory(evolution). He apparently doesn't mind that they ignore the hundreds of other so called theories. This could backfire on them. Once students get to heart of Origins they will 'see the light' so to speak, and hopefully 'spread the word'.

Other Comments by JuJu

40. Comment #416252 by toomanytribbles on September 17, 2009 at 3:02 pm

oh no!
what a difference an 'a' makes.

Other Comments by toomanytribbles

41. Comment #416253 by severalspeciesof on September 17, 2009 at 3:02 pm

Oh dear,

This may be even worse if one of the comments made on the Facebook page is true:

Neal wrote:

It's not the forward I'm worried about. The main body of the book has been abridged to half it's original length by a ministry. Moreover, the pdf of the first 54 pages does not state that this is an abridged version.

Other Comments by severalspeciesof

42. Comment #416254 by Anvil on September 17, 2009 at 3:04 pm

Just spent a few minutes skimming the .pdf. It's a hoot! I definitely want one of these. I live in the UK but will pay postage and expenses to anyone who can get me a copy.

You’ve probably been led to believe that the first simple creatures had rudimentary eyes, and that as creatures slowly evolved their eyes evolved along with them. However, that’s not what scientists have found...

Nope ...scientists have found that a white male bearded pixie living on a cloud made them on Day 6 in the creation time-line.

Scientific proof of this can be found in Genesis 1:24-27, (which should be read in a strong Geordie accent):

"It's Day 6 in the Genesis House, and God has been given the task of creating animals and man - but this time... with eyes!"

Priceless. These will become collectors items. I'm serious, I want one. A signed copy would be preferable.

Anvil.

Other Comments by Anvil

43. Comment #416255 by Adrian Bartholomew on September 17, 2009 at 3:06 pm

Comment #416253 by severalspeciesof on September 17, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Oh dear,

This may be even worse if one of the comments made on the Facebook page is true:
Neal wrote:

It's not the forward I'm worried about. The main body of the book has been abridged to half it's original length by a ministry. Moreover, the pdf of the first 54 pages does not state that this is an abridged version.

Wow I have to eat my words already. Less than 3 minutes after I post too. Must be a record!

Other Comments by Adrian Bartholomew

44. Comment #416256 by Ania on September 17, 2009 at 3:07 pm

unfortunately Tagred, copyrights are a funny and complicated thing.. they protect the works of the author for as long as he-she lives, plus 70 years (120 for corporate authorship - 95 after publication), and that rule applies for recent works. Sadly for Darwin, it would have been the 1831 copyright act that protected him, which is long expired.

As for defamation or slander, as long as the "intro" does not attack Darwin at a personal level, there's not much that can be done. It's free speech.

Other Comments by Ania

45. Comment #416257 by epeeist on September 17, 2009 at 3:08 pm

Comment #416211 by Coel:

Copyright expires, for example 50 years after the author's death, though rules vary.

It is longer in the States (otherwise there would be problems for Micky Mouse), but the book is certainly out of copyright.

However, since they are not publishing the whole of it but an "abridged" version then I wonder whether there other approaches that could be tried.

Other Comments by epeeist

46. Comment #416258 by Bruno on September 17, 2009 at 3:11 pm

Skimming Mein Kamph now. Second chapter, near the end:

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

Other Comments by Bruno

47. Comment #416259 by God fearing Atheist on September 17, 2009 at 3:11 pm

41. Comment #416253 by severalspeciesof

The main body of the book has been abridged to half it's original length by a ministry.

Talk about quote mining! How much can a malicious editor change the meaning of a book be deleting half of it?

Other Comments by God fearing Atheist

48. Comment #416260 by Steve Zara on September 17, 2009 at 3:12 pm

There is a bombshell in this PDF. It's a bit of a "we told you so":

"Do you think that DNA’s amazing structure could have come together by accident? Or does it point to an intelligent Designer? Even the director of the U.S. National Human Genome Research Institute concluded there is a God based on his study of DNA. Francis Collins, the scientist who led the team that cracked the human genome, believes there is a rational basis for a Creator and that scientific discoveries bring man “closer to God”:"

So much for the appointment of someone like Collins helping to support religious acceptance of Evolution.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

49. Comment #416261 by robotaholic on September 17, 2009 at 3:13 pm

I really dislike these people. I can't really think of a good response. Any response seems to elevate them. (if that's possible)

Defaming a work of art- a book of historical significance- a scientific achievement- it really is childish

(there would be such hoopla if the bible were treated similarly)

They should be ashamed of themselves. Shame on those dispicable history deniers. They're as underhanded and devious as can be imagined.

Other Comments by robotaholic

50. Comment #416262 by Mark Jones on September 17, 2009 at 3:13 pm

Comment #416254 by Anvil