Atheist Chic2. Comment #13456 by Yorker on December 17, 2006 at 9:02 pm
This is off-topic, I haven't read the article yet but this thought just crossed my mind -- I had to get it down.3. Comment #13457 by Conrad on December 17, 2006 at 9:30 pm
I find the writers description of what Dawkins et al are asking people to do tiresome and false. No one is asking anyone to run around with a sandwich board, talking through a mega-phone castigating religion. Nor does anyone suggest that you should go out of your way to pick fights. That's just the thing. The fundamentalist worldview is everywhere. No one has to go searching for a reason to defend reason. Myraid crimes against reason happen everyday. All you're asked to do is defend it instead of remaining silent. But that doesn't mean when grandma is on her deathbed talking about Jesus or Uncle Jim is saying grace at thanksgiving that you must right then and there speak out. If Uncle Jim tries to tell everyone afterwards at dinner that the world is 6000 years old, then feel free to give some examples of why that isn't true. Otherwise, you're just being a nutter. And no one, Harris, Dawkins, Dennet etc, is asking you to be obnoxious.4. Comment #13466 by nrvous on December 17, 2006 at 10:07 pm
5. Comment #13477 by Niels Thorsen on December 17, 2006 at 11:23 pm
This article reflects the malaise that many find themselves in when it comes to confronting the culture of faith. Our society has pursued tolerance for so long that we sometimes (mistakenly) hold it to be as virtuous as others do 'faith'.6. Comment #13479 by toomanytribbles on December 18, 2006 at 12:30 am
7. Comment #13480 by John Phillips on December 18, 2006 at 12:46 am
Strange isn't it, even self professed atheists say that we must be nice to the believers when many of those same believers have no problem describing us pejoratively as godless or worse. Such as the US president who stated that atheists should not be considered as citizens or patriots and where atheist veterans have been actively discriminated against by some public officials.8. Comment #13481 by Mr. Mark on December 18, 2006 at 1:10 am
So, atheists need to be nice to theists?9. Comment #13486 by Logicel on December 18, 2006 at 1:35 am
10. Comment #13502 by J. on December 18, 2006 at 3:12 am
Um, Yorker? Regarding your heartwarming story (2. Comment #13456 by Yorker on December 17, 2006 at 9:02 pm) - forgive me, but:11. Comment #13504 by Louis Perry on December 18, 2006 at 3:29 am
Neil was doing great until that penultimate paragraph:12. Comment #13518 by goddogit on December 18, 2006 at 4:23 am
I can't speak for other people, but all I have to do is strive to be an honest, hard-working-and-playing, compassionate human being trying to understand the joy that is a life with human consciousness.13. Comment #13523 by Luthien on December 18, 2006 at 5:00 am
14. Comment #13573 by Yorker on December 18, 2006 at 1:33 pm
10. Comment #13502 by J.15. Comment #13603 by Vardu on December 18, 2006 at 5:24 pm
Yorker: Enjoyed your little piece above immensely.16. Comment #13604 by Yorker on December 18, 2006 at 5:38 pm
Thanks Vardu!17. Comment #13605 by Yorker on December 18, 2006 at 5:46 pm
5. Comment #13477 by Niels Thorsen18. Comment #14279 by Kimpatsu on December 21, 2006 at 9:55 pm
19. Comment #14832 by jhb90277 on December 25, 2006 at 5:51 pm
20. Comment #14839 by Tremayne on December 25, 2006 at 7:37 pm
"I have always found people to be far more willing to take my opinions seriously if I use the soft-sell approach..."
"No one has to go searching for a reason to defend reason."
"And no one, Harris, Dawkins, Dennet, etc, is asking you to be obnoxious. They're asking you to be reasonable."
All true, though even positing a non-theist argument or worldview frequently provokes responses that range from indignation through vituperation and rebuke from (devout) religious apologists. It amazes me how often the sociological analog of Newton's Third Law rears its head whenever the discussion or debate turns to evolution versus creationism. Even what begins as a civil debate will too often deteriorate into vitriol, obloquies and ad hominem attacks.
21. Comment #15037 by Chinstrap on December 28, 2006 at 11:21 am
I read this article with a mixture of fascination and awe. As a Canadian peering over the border at what seems to be an increasingly -- and dangerously -- religious (read: Christian) United States, I can't tell you how excited I was just to see that someone might have the cajones to admit in a major newspaper that he was an atheist (even if it was the LA Times and not the Washington Post). On a related note, it's funny that the author's final paragraph is unintentionally contradictory. He says that he can't bring himself to confront others about their religious beliefs and yet it is my experience that religious people view the mere declaration of atheism as an offensive challenge to their beliefs. In other words, by simply stating that he is an atheist, he has already offended the believers and there is now no turning back. I'm sure that at the very least he fell off a few Christmas party invitation lists as a result of his article (say what you will about Christmas, I still enjoy the parties! ;-)).22. Comment #15376 by ashvetz on December 30, 2006 at 8:38 pm
I think many atheists (Dawkins, etc) may seem militant on the face value of their arguments, but they are certainly well justified. If it were just a simple matter of how people choose to spend their free time on Saturdays/Sundays, or how annual dates were celebrated, that would be a minor thing. Unfortunately (especially here in the U.S.), religion has such a profound effect on public policy, that it is far from harmless.
1. Comment #13454 by jefferson on December 17, 2006 at 8:32 pm
"Dawkins and Harris' take-no-prisoners orthodoxy would have us be intolerant of others' faith."I don't see what's wrong with criticizing peoples' belief.
You would never hear someone calling a Democrat "intolerant" if one were criticizing a Republican.
Nor should an atheist be called "intolerant" while criticizing a religious person.
I would love it if we shattered this taboo.
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