1. Comment #425251 by steveroot on October 20, 2009 at 2:51 pm

Yes, the lord works in mysterious ways!
Steve

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2. Comment #425254 by Big Gus on October 20, 2009 at 3:02 pm

More lying for jebus from an internationally renowned idiot. Amazon needs to sort that out if it want's to keep my business.

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3. Comment #425256 by Ignorant Amos on October 20, 2009 at 3:17 pm

I was under the impression that bannana boys adulterated version of TOOS was to be given out, free to students. WTF is it doing on Amazon?

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4. Comment #425262 by mordacious1 on October 20, 2009 at 3:48 pm

It's on Amazon so that buyers who are unaware will end up with Comfort's adulterated version. A sleazy move by the godbots.

Amazon should put a disclaimer about this book on its site.

Other Comments by mordacious1

5. Comment #425265 by Ignorant Amos on October 20, 2009 at 3:52 pm

cretinist bastards!!!

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6. Comment #425283 by BeyondBelief on October 20, 2009 at 4:19 pm

Here is the text of my e-mail to Amazon. I clicked on the "Contact Us" link and chose the topic "Customer Reviews." Feel free to use any or all of this in your communication to Amazon.

To whom it may concern:

There is a serious issue with the way your rating system is working with "On the Origin of Species," and if it is not resolved soon, I will not purchase through Amazon.com again. Further, I will be posting this information to multiple blogs and online communities to extend the boycott.

Currently a search on your site for "Origin of Species" returns a search result with the "Ray Comfort" version as the number one response. That's not bad in itself; maybe Ray's denialist version is popular. But the star reviews for this "DENIALIST" version are intermingled with reviews for the ACTUAL "On The Origin of Species" by Charles Darwin (by himself, without a 50 page creationist misinformation campaign inserted as a fore-word.)

Positive reviews for a "150th Anniversary Version" of On the Origin of Species are being credited to Comfort's piece of dreck.

This has many negative impacts:
1. The ratings for Ray Comfort's piece of detritus are raised FALSELY
2. The ratings for the "real" Origin version are LOWERED, falsely.
3. Folks not aware of the controversy with the Comfort version may inadvertently buy a misleading and inaccurate book that will further the abominable understanding of evolution in this country (the USA).

So, please untangle this mess through whatever programming means are necessary, and allow credit/blame to fall where it is due. It is disingenuous and misleading to allow the current mess to stand, and if it is not resolved by November 1, I will follow through on my promise: I will do no more business with Amazon.com, and I will actively promote a similar action through my blogs and online communities.

Best regards,

[edit] It should be noted, I logged in to post my e-mail, so they know who I am. They can see the thousands of dollars I have spent over the years with them. Do the same, if willing, so they understand the force/impact they are facing.[end edit]

[edit2] On the upside, when I click on Ray's book, it comes up with the "Customers who bought this frequently bought these items together" with images of Richard's TGSOE and TGD.[end edit2]

[edit 3] Irony of ironies. As I was typing this, the US Postal service delivered my order of 3 copies of They Might Be Giants "Here Comes Science" from Amazon! Not making this up![end edit3]

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7. Comment #425286 by hexenpluis on October 20, 2009 at 4:31 pm

The Comfort book also comes up on amazon.co.uk if you search for "Origin of Species 150th anniversary edition" or similar and masks the real 150th anniversary edition.

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8. Comment #425287 by mordacious1 on October 20, 2009 at 4:34 pm

6. Comment #425283 by BeyondBelief

On the upside, when I click on Ray's book, it comes up with the "Customers who bought this frequently bought these items together" with images of Richard's TGSOE and TGD.

I noticed that too. A bit misleading though. I'm sure people who bought TGSOE and TGD, did not buy Ray's version...Amazon really needs to correct this.

[edit] Email sent with promise of removing my considerable business. I hope they change this, because I don't want to lose Amazon. My last search for Origins showed Comfort's version as #3...so perhaps they've fixed that part.

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9. Comment #425290 by BeyondBelief on October 20, 2009 at 4:43 pm

Mordacious, Agreed, as I told them in no mincing terms. Fix it or lose business. I do hope others will join with me... and the original video poster... to at least provide the threat directly to Amazon, and preferably as a logged on user so they can see just how much it means in real Dollar (pound :-) value.

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10. Comment #425293 by Sally Luxmoore on October 20, 2009 at 4:51 pm

Shouldn't Richard be complaining about this too?

He must carry some clout with Amazon!

Josh / Admin - does Richard know about this?

Other Comments by Sally Luxmoore

11. Comment #425294 by 4horsefins on October 20, 2009 at 4:58 pm

Simple elementary statistics tell me management at Amazon use this web site daily. This is an appropriate platform to demonstrate your dissatisfaction with Amazon. I urge all who read this to post a comment about this problem and what you intend to do in reprisal.

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12. Comment #425299 by Mbee on October 20, 2009 at 5:12 pm

I've not been using Amazon for a long time because of their distribution of personal information that you give them.

I use Barnes and Noble for books I need to buy.
For the origin they list many versions of TOOS. Rays version is listed as #5 with Ray as an introduction. $4.49.
If you read the synopsis it says this about the '150th Anniversary edition':

Synopsis
According to a recent survey, more than a third of professors at the top fifty universities describe themselves as atheist or agnostic. Among biology professors, it's a whopping 61%. It's no surprise then that belief in atheism has doubled in the college age bracket in the last 20 years. Best selling author, Ray Comfort, said, "Keeping intelligent design out of schools, is a hill to die on for evolutionists, so when I found that Charles Darwin's Origin of Species was available in the public domain, I had an idea that would get the truth onto college campuses. We are therefore reproducing Origin of Species in an abridged form with an added 'Special Introduction.'"
This introduction gives a timeline of Darwin's life, and his thoughts on the existence of God. It lists the theories of many hoaxes, exposes the unscientific belief that nothing created everything, points to the incredible structure of DNA, and notes the absence of any undisputed transitional forms. To show the dangerous fruit of evolution, it also mentions Hitler's undeniable connections to the theory, Darwin's racism, and his disdain for women. In addition, it counters the claim that creationists are "anti-science" by citing numerous scientists who believed that God created the universe -- scientists such as Einstein, Newton, Copernicus, Bacon, Faraday, Pasteur, and Kepler.
Comfort says, "This special edition includes many original graphics and (as it says on the back cover) is designed for use in schools, colleges, and prestigious learning institutions. Its release is timed to coincide with the 150th anniversary of Darwin's book, initially published in November 1859 as On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favored Races in the Struggle for Life." The back cover lists the above information as well as saying the book contains "Information on Intelligent Design vs Evolution."

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13. Comment #425302 by phasmagigas on October 20, 2009 at 5:21 pm

methinks he is a weasle.

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14. Comment #425303 by Mbee on October 20, 2009 at 5:22 pm

I did some more searches and the same problem exists at B&N. The real 150th anniversary edition of TOOS is also being masked by this pretend version.

The real version is only available as an eBook however so I guess that is how they can get away with allowing 2 books with the exact same title - although as they are different contents they should not have the same title.

Other Comments by Mbee

15. Comment #425304 by Roger Stanyard on October 20, 2009 at 5:23 pm

It's worth pointing out that the Clown Prince of Creationism, Ray Comfort, is not exactly America's number one public intellectual. Not only does he have not an iota of training or education in science, he (Like Kirk Cameron) cannot even a muster a degree in any subject. Indeed, Bananaman doesn't even have any theological training or qualifications.

He's a world class rank amateur.

It's worse than that, though, for the UK, where he has a long standing publication distribution operation. This shared the same address at one stage as Truth in Science, the British young earth creationism organisation trying to pretend it is backing Intelligent Design.

As far as the British Centre for Science Education is aware, Bananaman's UK operation was responsible for the distribution of TIS's CDs to British science teachers. I can only assume that they will now be getting Bananaman's latest crapola.

Other Comments by Roger Stanyard

16. Comment #425308 by mordacious1 on October 20, 2009 at 5:34 pm

I noticed that the Comfort version on Amazon is still the "Abridged" version. I thought banana Ray was going to correct this. What happened Ray?

Other Comments by mordacious1

17. Comment #425321 by BeyondBelief on October 20, 2009 at 6:13 pm

A reply from Amazon...
-----Original Message-----
From: Amazon.com Customer Service [mailto:cust.service03@amazon.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 12:57 PM
To: [deleted]
Subject: Your Amazon.com Inquiry

Hello,

First, please allow me to express my apologizes for any frustration you have experienced.

Thanks for pointing this out. I've forwarded your suggestion to the appropriate department in our company for further consideration. If it's determined that these titles should be un-linked in our database, you'll see these changes online in 7-10 business days.

We hope to see you again soon.

Please let us know if this e-mail resolved your question:
**** see note below
[deletia]
Please note: this e-mail was sent from an address that cannot accept incoming e-mail.

To contact us about an unrelated issue, please visit the Help section of our web site.

Best regards,

Robert W
Amazon.com
=====================

I followed up to their request "Please click below if this e-mail did/did not resolve the issue" and said, effectively anything less than separating the comments and links from these two different books would not suffice, especially if the Comfort version is abridged, as Mordacious1 notes. There is no excuse for letting a parasite gain unearned benefit from....

... wait a minute. Maybe Amazon is being ironic, showing how parasitism causes an organism to evolve. Slowly, the original work will disappear under the selection pressures caused by this parasite. Crafty devils!

Other Comments by BeyondBelief

18. Comment #425330 by dlgilbert on October 20, 2009 at 6:34 pm

Fortunately, Comfort's version is out of stock. ;-)

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19. Comment #425334 by boogerjames on October 20, 2009 at 6:38 pm

From an IT perspective, I would assume that this problem is caused by the book having the exact same title ("Origin of Sepecies: 150th Anniversary Eddition") as well as the exact same main Author (Charles Darwin). I would think they would use a unique number (like ISBN) to identify separate books, but apparently not.

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20. Comment #425335 by RightWingAtheist on October 20, 2009 at 6:41 pm

Good luck. Amazon really sucks at fixing mistakes. I have called and emailed them about complete screw-ups just like this, and they are too stupid to understand what they did wrong.

A similar error happened with two completely different cell phones sharing reviews, and I couldn't get Amazon to fix it even with multiple phone calls and emails.

Numerous other cases of products with incorrect pictures or descriptions were very difficult to get any changes at all, and even when Amazon changed it, the "correction" was sometimes no more accurate than the original.

Interestingly, this only applies (as far as I know) to the US website. When I called the UK website about a scam diet book having a large number of suspiciously similar reviews, from "users" with suspiciously similar name formats, it was fixed within hours.

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21. Comment #425337 by BeyondBelief on October 20, 2009 at 6:48 pm

Yup... the old "underthinking the scale" problem. It's like organizations that say, "Hey, let's make our "unique" login ID be the first 7 letters of the last name, and the first initial."

I mean REALLY, how many John Smith's can there be? :-)

I ALMOST want to attribute this to a simple IT SNAFU, but with distinguishing factors like ISBN available, and with Border's having the same problem (according to an earlier poster), and with the "affinity" match of this book with TGSOE and TGOD, it seems like it may be intentional.

Damn! There goes my over-evolved "agency detection" capacity seeing intention in the slightest branch-wiggling. :-)

Intentional or not, this abridged version with erroneous introduction is a virus. We need to be the white blood cells here, people. This is about as "low-level commitment" as public activism gets. Dive in and help the fight. Ray's folks are willing to help him move HIS agenda forward.

Other Comments by BeyondBelief

22. Comment #425338 by mordacious1 on October 20, 2009 at 6:48 pm

18. Comment #425330 by dlgilbert

Fortunately, Comfort's version is out of stock. ;-)

It has not been released yet. It's only available for preorder, that is why it states "out of stock".

[edit] I take that back, it has been released...my bad.

[edit 2] I noticed this is a paperback version. What happened to the wonderful hardcover Ray was going on about on his website. He must have run out of dough. Gee, looks like I'll have to pick up the free hardcover at UC Davis.

Other Comments by mordacious1

23. Comment #425343 by AshtonBlack on October 20, 2009 at 7:01 pm

Speak to the Publisher of the Original? The would probably be livid at the spoiling of their ratings. Probably be able to have more clout with Amazon I think. (A contractual breach?)

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24. Comment #425346 by mordacious1 on October 20, 2009 at 7:08 pm

On the "abridged" Amazon version, from Ray's Living Waters site:

Comfort argues the book has not been altered at all.

"The 304-page publication will be Charles Darwin's every word - not one jot nor tittle will be removed," he said.

So, Amazon is selling a version that Ray says doesn't exist.

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25. Comment #425349 by mirandaceleste on October 20, 2009 at 7:15 pm

Speak to the Publisher of the Original? The would probably be livid at the spoiling of their ratings. Probably be able to have more clout with Amazon I think. (A contractual breach?)

It's in the public domain, though, and thus there are many different publishers.

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26. Comment #425354 by mordacious1 on October 20, 2009 at 7:27 pm

25. Comment #425349 by mirandaceleste

If I had published "The 150th Anniversary Edition" and it was being sold on Amazon AND they were linking it to Ray Comfort's edition I'd blow a cork!

[edit] Damn I'm editing alot today, time to start checking facts before posting...The ebook "150th Anniversary..." is not being sold on Amazon...B&N is selling it.

[edit edit] Ah...Amazon does have one called 150th, in paperback. It wasn't showing up before.

Other Comments by mordacious1

27. Comment #425358 by mirandaceleste on October 20, 2009 at 7:38 pm

Oh, definitely! It's a really horrible situation. I just wanted to point out that there isn't just one publisher of the original.

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28. Comment #425360 by mordacious1 on October 20, 2009 at 7:46 pm

As an aside, Comfort's site "Atheist Central" has a counter that ticks off how many people have died since you logged on to his site. I'm up to 6,000 now. Out of those, how many will go to heaven because they know christ and how many will go to HELL?

If they can't get you to believe using logic (which they can't, so they don't bother using it), they'll try to scare the pants off of you with something your mommy drilled into your head when you were 4. Sad...just very sad.

Other Comments by mordacious1

29. Comment #425366 by mordacious1 on October 20, 2009 at 7:59 pm

Would you guys mind if I quote something Ray just posted on his site (I know, but it's funny):

A famous geneticist once said: "Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution." I would like to drop one word, so that the quote is true. It should read, "Nothing in biology makes sense in the light of evolution." Explain to me how 1.4 million species managed to evolve into maturity together, in our lifetime. Nothing we have in creation is half-evolved. The cow has a working udder to make drinkable milk. The bee has working apparatus to make edible honey. We don’t find a half evolved cow or bee.

That quote was by the evolutionary biologist and Russian Orthodox Christian Theodosius Dobzhansky, criticising anti-evolution creationism and espousing theistic evolution, btw.

Has Ray given up on the eye, or the flagellum? This new example of "irreducible complexity" is just an udder catastrophe, honey.

OK, I'll go take a nap.

Other Comments by mordacious1

30. Comment #425391 by SilentMike on October 20, 2009 at 10:08 pm

10. Comment #425293 by Sally Luxmoore

Shouldn't Richard be complaining about this too?

Absolutely right! I had the exact same idea. If Prof. Richard Dawkins, FRS, FRSL, were to contact Amazon through his literary agent about this absurd situation, you'd think maybe they might listen and do something about it about it before 7-10 business days pass, as they told one complainer from this site ("BeyondBelief").

Other Comments by SilentMike

31. Comment #425392 by rud on October 20, 2009 at 10:09 pm

Ratings? isn't that an youtube thing?
Who cares about ratings...

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32. Comment #425393 by SilentMike on October 20, 2009 at 10:14 pm

31. Comment #425392 by rud

It's not just the ratings. I think it's also the reviews. We don't want anyone buying Comfort's version "by mistake" thinking it's the real thing.

Other Comments by SilentMike

33. Comment #425394 by secondsoprano on October 20, 2009 at 10:14 pm

@RWA

Amazon really sucks at fixing mistakes. I have called and emailed them about complete screw-ups just like this, and they are too stupid to understand what they did wrong.

Despite a flood of angry complaints, and months of Twitter activism, "A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality" is STILL the first result if you search 'homosexuality' in Amazon.

This foul, destructive piece of garbage should not be sold at all, much less appear at the top of a search list.

This latest fiasco just confirms my decision never to buy from Amazon. There are plenty of other booksellers out there who deserve our business.

Other Comments by secondsoprano

34. Comment #425396 by Sally Luxmoore on October 20, 2009 at 10:16 pm

a half evolved cow or bee

This is crying out for another poster or maybe Lalla will be inspired to make Richard another tie?
(I speak as a great admirer of Richard's ties!)

Edit: Although I have to admit I cannot begin to imagine what a half evolved modern animal could look like - could be a problem....

Other Comments by Sally Luxmoore

35. Comment #425398 by rud on October 20, 2009 at 10:28 pm

32. Comment #425393 by SilentMike

We don't want anyone buying Comfort's version "by mistake" thinking it's the real thing.

That really worries you?

Other Comments by rud

36. Comment #425401 by Ignorant Amos on October 20, 2009 at 10:42 pm

6. Comment #425283 by BeyondBelief

I don't spend thousands, but what books I buy, are through Amazon....I can spend my pounds, soon to become dollars, at other outlets, even if the price is a few quid/bucks more...get it sorted Amazon.

Other Comments by Ignorant Amos

37. Comment #425405 by SilentMike on October 20, 2009 at 10:53 pm

35. Comment #425398 by rud

That really worries you?

It won't stop me sleeping at night. But I would rather it be fixed.

Other Comments by SilentMike

38. Comment #425410 by Nails on October 20, 2009 at 11:05 pm

34. Comment #425396 by Sally Luxmoore on October 20, 2009 at 10:16 pm

a half evolved cow or bee

Edit: Although I have to admit I cannot begin to imagine what a half evolved modern animal could look like - could be a problem....

Only if you assume that evolution is an all or nothing event.
As it is a continous process, the sentiment of halfway is completely irrelevent.
It will lead you to velociraptors being half-birds, dimetrodon being half mammals and a bush being a half-evolved tree.

Other Comments by Nails

39. Comment #425411 by RedCarnage on October 20, 2009 at 11:05 pm

I thought that Ray Comforts version of the Origin of the species was printed just so they could hand it out to college students for free. Now he could be making a profit off of Darwin. He really is a parasite. Proving that he is only doing this for the money and not trying to save anyone. He is in it for himself.

Makes me sick.

Other Comments by RedCarnage

40. Comment #425412 by Ignorant Amos on October 20, 2009 at 11:07 pm

15. Comment #425304 by Roger Stanyard

This is exactly the point...he is making a fortune snake oil pedaling with not one qualification, adroitness or acumen. No one with just one brain could be as fucking stupid as Ray Comfort. Therefore I believe it must all be a ruse. The statements this fucked up pile of pish makes are beyond the norms of even a retard, so must be about getting simple people to part with there cash,which appears to work. John(Ray Comfort) Smith.

Retard-definition:-a person who is stupid, obtuse, or ineffective in some way: a hopeless social retard.

Other Comments by Ignorant Amos

41. Comment #425414 by Sally Luxmoore on October 20, 2009 at 11:23 pm

Comment #425410 by Nails

Half evolved animals (the truth must be told...)

I don't 'assume that evolution is an all or nothing event' (!) - but 'heaven' knows what Ray Comfort assumes.

I don't think you have really got the joke.

I think he is thinking of an animal that we would still recognise today (a modern animal) but which is somehow only half made. Don't for goodness sake ask me to explain how - that's precisely the point!

Other Comments by Sally Luxmoore

42. Comment #425420 by reckoner on October 20, 2009 at 11:41 pm

This whole thing really pisses me the fuck off.

Other Comments by reckoner

43. Comment #425425 by mordacious1 on October 21, 2009 at 12:08 am

33. Comment #425394 by secondsoprano

Why stop at the #1 listed book when searching "homosexuality"? Top 7 search results on Amazon:

#1 A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality
#2 What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality
#3 101 Frequently Asked Questions About Homosexuality (Really...101 questions?)
#4 Can Homosexuality Be Healed? (No...is this one of the 101 questions in #3?).
#5 You Don't Have to Be Gay: Hope and Freedom for Males Struggling With Homosexuality or for Those Who Know of Someone Who Is
#6 When Homosexuality Hits Home: What to Do When a Loved One Says They're Gay (RUN...run for your lives!)
#7 Homosexuality and Civilization (this one is probably a good book).

Other Comments by mordacious1

44. Comment #425432 by Border Collie on October 21, 2009 at 12:43 am

The good news is that we won't buy them, the cretinists who buy the Comfort book won't get any dumber and there's a slight possibility that they'll buy the real Origin and grow a slight amount of extra grey matter.

Other Comments by Border Collie

45. Comment #425437 by Bonzai on October 21, 2009 at 1:16 am

mord,

Are you sure 'the joy of gay sex' is not anywhere near the top 10? May be you should search 'gay' instead of 'homosexuality'. :)

Other Comments by Bonzai

46. Comment #425439 by Kosmic Kurt on October 21, 2009 at 1:36 am

Amazon has fixed the error and put correct feedback with the correct book. I left a discussion memo in the product forum explaining the difference of the books and listed the ISBN numbers too on each book's page on the Amazon.com website. However, as of 8:30PM CST the Ray Comfort version is the only one that comes up when you do a search for Origin of Species. You need to search by the ISBN for the "real " version. Hopefully that will be fixed as well. At least the ratings are accurate.

Other Comments by Kosmic Kurt

47. Comment #425458 by Roy_H on October 21, 2009 at 5:25 am

Oh they certainly crocoducked it up didn't they? We all make mistakes.Look at the title of the e mail I got from Auntie BBC yesterday. Quote :-

"Pre-Order David Attenbourough's Life DVD & save £12."
oops

P.S. if you have nothing better to do, check out this guy's "reviews" on Amazon. Some of them are laugh out loud funny
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AZN3ZSQQU3WW5/ref=cm_pdp_rev_all?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview

Other Comments by Roy_H

48. Comment #425459 by beth.cimini on October 21, 2009 at 5:42 am

It's unfortunately not actually fixed- it's fixed on the search page (which shows 19 results at 1.5 stars) but the actual sales page for the book is still combined (48 results at 3 stars)

Other Comments by beth.cimini

49. Comment #425460 by mordacious1 on October 21, 2009 at 5:42 am

45. Comment #425437 by Bonzai

You're right, that shows up at #6...#3 is "Murder Most Gay" (I can only imagine what the plot is in that one!).

Damn...now when my kids go on Amazon and it pops up with "Books recommended for you based on your searches" they're going to be surprised...I think.:)

Other Comments by mordacious1

50. Comment #425464 by Rodger T on October 21, 2009 at 6:07 am

Copies of On the Origin of Species appear to be uncontaminated at Barnes and Noble.

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