Tuesday, October 27, 2009 | Science : Teaching Science | print version

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Islam's Darwin problem

by Drake Bennett - boston.com

Thanks to Highlander for the link.
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/10/25/in_the_muslim_world_creationism_is_on_the_rise/?page=full

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Three weeks ago, with much fanfare, a team of scientists unveiled the fossil skeleton of Ardi, a 4-foot-tall female primate who lived and died 4.4 million years ago in what is now Ethiopia. According to her discoverers, Ardi - short for Ardipithecus ramidus, her species - is our oldest known ancestor. She predated Lucy, the fossilized Australopithecus afarensis that previously had claimed the title, by 1.2 million years.

The papers announcing the find described a transitional specimen, with the long arms and short legs of an ape and strong, grasping big toes suited to life in the trees, but also a pelvis whose shape allowed her to walk upright on the ground below.

That, at least, is what one discovered by following the coverage in the Western press, or by reading the scientific papers themselves, published in the journal Science. If you learned about Ardi on the Arabic-language version of Al Jazeera’s website, however, you discovered something else: The find disproved the theory of evolution.

“Ardi Refutes Darwin’s Theory,” Al Jazeera announced, in an Oct. 3 article not available on the English version of the website. “American scientists have presented evidence that Darwin’s theory of evolution was wrong,” the article opened. “The team announced yesterday that Ardi’s discovery proves that humans did not evolve from ancestors that resemble chimpanzees, which refutes the longstanding assumption that humans evolved from monkeys.”
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http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/10/25/in_the_muslim_world_creationism_is_on_the_rise/?page=full

Posted: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 | Permalink

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1. Comment #427290 by clunkclickeverytrip on October 27, 2009 at 3:14 pm

Lying is easy - the truth will prevail.

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2. Comment #427292 by OlavRokne on October 27, 2009 at 3:15 pm

especially when the theory of evolution is portrayed among Muslim thinkers, as it often is, as an instrument of Western intellectual hegemony.

To me, this is one of the key problems with the rise of Islamic creationism. It's not possible for us Western sources to refute it without appearing to be culturally insensitive.

Oddly enough, I've heard the same reaction from First Nations (I.E. Innuit or American Indian) creationists -- the theory of evolution is discounted because it was discovered by a white guy.

Poisoning the well might be a rhetorical falacy, but it's surprisingly effective.

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3. Comment #427298 by JesperB on October 27, 2009 at 3:37 pm

without appearing to be culturally insensitive

I like being culturally insensitive. I wear my insensitivity like a badge of honor. After all, it only means that I think the modern post-enlightenment secular free democratic Western world that has given the rest of the world pretty much all modern science, medicine and other knowledge (Including universal human rights), rocks. Yup. It rocks.

Sometimes I fear that "cultural insensitivity" is a euphemism for "Not completely hating the West and all it stands for", which in some circles is a bad thing.

I'll certainly agree on your main point - that it is a major problem that Muslims and others throw away evolution for no other reason than "They didn't come up with it". A major stumbling block for the spreading of scientific knowledge.

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4. Comment #427302 by Sally Luxmoore on October 27, 2009 at 3:41 pm

Richard's books need to be available on the internet in all the most common languages spoken by muslims. The young people will find them there and will at least have the chance to understand that the viewpoint prevailing in their country / culture is challenged, and that there is proper evidence for Darwinism.

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5. Comment #427312 by ty90 on October 27, 2009 at 4:21 pm

I totally agree with you Sally Luxmoore.

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6. Comment #427322 by rod-the-farmer on October 27, 2009 at 4:41 pm

Sally raises a good point. Anyone know what the status is, or even if there IS one, regarding translation of any of RD's books into the more popular languages used in muslim countries ?

"The entire Arab world translates about 330 books annually, one-fifth the number that Greece translates." The report adds that in the 1000 years since the reign of the caliph Maa'moun, the Arabs have translated as many books as Spain translates in just one year.

The above quote comes from an article on this site. It would seem there are few science books of any type translated into Arabic. The omens are not propitious.

http://richarddawkins.net/article,1511,Science-and-the-Islamic-World,Pervez-Amirali-Hoodbhoy

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7. Comment #427333 by nalfeshnee on October 27, 2009 at 4:48 pm

Sally – we need to extend the Reason Project as you suggest to provide free Arabic (e.g.) translations of such books.

In fact, it need not be the entire book – a "potted" version would do just as well.

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8. Comment #427335 by UncleVanya on October 27, 2009 at 4:51 pm

Where do you start£

There are some amazing quotes in this piece, but for my money the best has got to be:

Seyyed Hossein Nasr, a professor of religious studies at George Washington University, has written that evolution "survived to this day not as a theory but as a dogma{hellip}a convenient philosophical and rationalistic scheme to enable man to create the illusion of a purely closed universe around himself."

That quote actually seems to make more sense if you subtitute "evolutionary" for "religious" at the start and "religion" for "evolution" just before the quote...

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9. Comment #427340 by jaytee_555 on October 27, 2009 at 4:57 pm

I was under the impression that Richard's website was banned in Turkey . Yet on holiday there recently, I had no problem in getting onto this site. This was at an internet cafe in a popular holiday resort. Has the ban been lifted, or was I simply lucky and managed to get in through a 'hole in the wall'?.

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10. Comment #427341 by ozturk on October 27, 2009 at 5:01 pm

@jaytee - I use the site everyday, but I put in a techno 'fix' a long time ago in order to get around the ban. So, whether it's readily available or not, I'm not sure. I'll look into it.

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11. Comment #427342 by rjj_98 on October 27, 2009 at 5:03 pm

A translation I found....
http://www.linamalkawi.com/2009/10/ideologically-driven-aljazeera-says.html#comment-form

Eye opening indeed.

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12. Comment #427343 by Lucas on October 27, 2009 at 5:04 pm

The rise of Islamic creationism, then, may be a sign that more of the Muslim world is at least wrestling with the idea of evolution, and more broadly with the power of scientific explanations.

I suspect that this is in fact the case. The louder the creationists get, the more we get to talk about science. On the surface it may seem like a sign that we are loosing ground, but I think it may be the opposite.

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13. Comment #427377 by RichardofYork on October 27, 2009 at 6:41 pm

After reading "The Greatest Show on Earth" I can still say "But its just a theory!"its so easy to say .Anyone wanting to believe other explanations for the rise in complexity of so many species, and the extinction of the vast majority of species can do so with impunity and with backing from well funded theocrats . I think the time is right to forget all about the argument , as there isnt one . Let them drown in their own bronze age vomit. As you can tell I'm a bit pissed off with it all

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14. Comment #427387 by carbonman on October 27, 2009 at 7:21 pm

Here in the Middle East the kids are well briefed by their elders against possible contamination by evolutionary theory. Couple of quotations from out of the mouths of babes and sucklings:

"I don't believe we came from animals." Mariam, 9, writing in her exercise book after a lesson on animal adaptations to their environment. Human evolution hadn't been mentioned in the lesson.

"Some people believe we are monkeys. Ha, ha." Abdulla, 9, offering unsolicited comment during a lesson on the environment. Again, the lesson hadn't touched on human evolution, or evolution of any kind for that matter.

These comments are typical, and they suggest kids are being primed by some teachers and by their parents before the relevant questions arise in their minds.

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15. Comment #427419 by prolibertas on October 27, 2009 at 9:19 pm

"For evolution in the Islamic world, it’s very unfortunate that Darwin was a white Brit, because otherwise it would have gained wider acceptance".

I find this racist against white people. I'm not being facetious; imagine if General Relativity had been worked out by a black man in Nigeria, and for that reason was rejected by Westerners: "For General Relativity in the Western world, it's very unfortunate that the scientist was a black Nigerian, because otherwise it would have gained wider acceptance".

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16. Comment #427425 by epeeist on October 27, 2009 at 9:42 pm

Comment #427419 by prolibertas:

imagine if General Relativity had been worked out by a black man in Nigeria, and for that reason was rejected by Westerners:

Bad example I'm afraid. It was rejected as an example of "Jewish Science" by the "Deutsche Physik" movement.

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17. Comment #427428 by alexo on October 27, 2009 at 9:50 pm

If Rod the Farmer's information is correct, it is nothing short of shocking, the analogy is communism in its worst incarnation. (One could equally substitute facism or indeed any other totalitarian creed) where the banning of books was commonplace. Whilst I'm not saying that this is the case in the muslim world due to the lack of translated books (for whatever reason) one can't help suspecting that this would in fact happen, all the more reason for putting books such as Richard's online - now very easily done, I suggested this a few weeks back in another thread. I realise that there are revenue issues and intellectual property rights involved but the risks I think are outweighed by the potential advantages, after all Hollywood has not ceased making movies because of DVD piracy!

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18. Comment #427453 by Border Collie on October 27, 2009 at 11:00 pm

Something Monty Pythonish keeps nagging me about this ...

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19. Comment #427455 by johnscarborough on October 27, 2009 at 11:23 pm

As RichardofYork says:
Let them drown in their own bronze age vomit.

9/11 was supposedly a revolt against western civilization impinging onto muslim values, however they required western civilization to accomplish it- i.e. jet aircraft.
If they had to use their own technology all they could manage is to catapult a few camels in the air.

Cheers.

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20. Comment #427529 by ozturk on October 28, 2009 at 7:07 am

Comment #427340 by jaytee_555

I was under the impression that Richard's website was banned in Turkey.

- still is. I have just tried on a PC without the techno fix, and no go. You were lucky - it seems your internet cafe folks had a work-around as well.

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21. Comment #427532 by Naptess on October 28, 2009 at 7:44 am

I found An Arabic translation of “the Blind watchmaker” in my father's book collection
It was named "New in natural selection” by Richard Dawkins. It was issued in 2002 by General Egyptian book organization The national ‘Reading for All' campaign “The family library”

I just discovered the book today; it’s translated by a man called: Mustafa Ibrahim Fahmy & Since I never read the original book I can’t tell how accurate his translation is
"In the introduction he writes that the actual name of the book is the blind watch maker and that he although doesn’t believe all what’s written he respects it as scientific arguments"

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22. Comment #427533 by Naptess on October 28, 2009 at 8:00 am

Found a download link to the Arabic Version of the book i have ..if you think this could help
[url]http://rapidshare.com/files/176637917/The_Blind_Watchmaker.pdf[/url]

[url]http://www.4shared.com/file/77508599/a534cdb8/The_Blind_Watchmaker.html[/url]

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23. Comment #427539 by scoobie on October 28, 2009 at 8:47 am

Drake Bennett's was a well written and informative article. Thanks!

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24. Comment #427542 by jamiso on October 28, 2009 at 9:12 am

"collaboration between government officials and American creationists, some of whom spent time in Turkey in the 1970s and 1980s on expeditions to Mount Ararat to find the remains of Noah’s Ark."

Ya...so hows that search going?

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25. Comment #427584 by passutoba on October 28, 2009 at 12:26 pm

carbonman...I teach in the middle east too...i've heard both those statements in my class many times.....with slightly older kids I make sure to put them right and tell them about the common ancestor, not that 'we are from chimpanzees' (another one I hear often)..that seems to strike some resonance, and I have also drawn a basic family tree...I'm not even a science teacher but i just can't let these things go!

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26. Comment #427589 by Sheol99 on October 28, 2009 at 12:47 pm

For muslims, their Koran is not like Bible for xtians. Muslims think that their Koran is a science book as well, actually the mother of all science. It works both ways, muslims work very hard to interprete proven scientific ideas as mentioned in Koran (the most famous are the 'blot' origin of human as embryo, and the astronomy). And they also discount everything that they cannot relate to Koran as untrue.
For muslims, true science must relate to Koran, even if it is very far removed relationship, and if you cannot state the relationship, by definition it is not science.

So, islamic creationism is nothing like xtian one. They might join forces on specific targets, but in general they are different. And muslims despise xtians as people misled, both spiritually as well as scientifically (because Koran is 'scientific - in all sense of the word - for muslims).

And then, the power of the muslim leaders against their followers, are several order of magnitude difference than what you usually see on xtians.
In some issues, all muslims are obligated to 'support their brothers', that includes the sanctity of their prophet and the book. So never expect any formal support of other muslims to a debate between muslim and an outsider. This - of course - create a lot of misunderstanding on terrorism.

I think the xtians acting very similar to muslims now about 300 years ago.

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27. Comment #428474 by DrawingYou on October 31, 2009 at 6:54 am

Islamic creationist, like their counter part in the west, want to have their cake and eat it too. I work in a major hospital and see desperate “believers” praying that science works (although they wouldn’t see it as that.) They want a miracle and know that science delivers. But they refuse to give science credit but instead claim that their invisible buddy did it. They eat the fruit of “western” science (modern biology) but try to kill the tree (evolution by natural selection) that is the foundation of modern biology. If we in the west were not so ready to give the world the fruits of our labor to those who hate us for having come up with the idea, and let them reap the rewords of their beliefs they would die sooner and not add to the pollution (mentally and environmentally) around the world.

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28. Comment #428529 by Kreator on October 31, 2009 at 2:11 pm

Islamic creationists fondly quote Harun Yahya's "arguements"(mainly because they're completely ignorant of evolution, not that Harun himself knows anything) and Harun Yahya steals these "arguements" from Western creationist websites. If something decisive could be done about creationism in the West, I think the situation will improve here in the East. And of course, the West needs to stop supporting Islam. I hear an aweful lot of Islamic institutions in Britain get support from the government. Believe it or not, these endorsements actually have a subtle impact on Islamism in Muslim dominated areas(for example, South Asia. I know because I live there)

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29. Comment #431151 by HankFox on November 11, 2009 at 6:04 pm

Seems to me this is all a matter of allowing the corrective force of reality to have its way.

The USSR discovered that you can believe anything you want, scientific and otherwise, but you can't make if be true. And you can't avoid the consequences of your mistakes.

Let the Islamic world believe in creationism all it wants. It will find its biologists hopelessly outclassed in vital new research, its schoolchildren greeted as second-raters on the international job market, and its economies hamstrung by the poisonous beliefs it embraces.

I feel the same way in this as I do about creationists in the U.S. If they don't want science and reason, don't force it on them. Just step back and let them enjoy the consequences of their mistakes.

This is a no-sweat situation that will correct itself in time.

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30. Comment #431165 by jdiggitty on November 11, 2009 at 7:29 pm

HankFox,

Unfortunately, a lot of people get to enjoy the mistakes of entrenched dogma who don't deserve it, don't want it, and don't care for it.

Just look to the Evangelicals and right-wingers in the US and tell me we aren't all paying for the consequences of their mistakes.

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31. Comment #431210 by mkdahammy on November 11, 2009 at 9:32 pm

I can see how the Muslim world would refute Western theories, especially one such as evolution...

...they still beat their wives.

Notice how there are "Western" scientists, and then there are "Islamic" scientists. I would think that Al Jazeera be referred to as an "Arabic" scientist, or else we'd better start referring to "Western" scientists as "Christian" scientists. I would have thought that it shouldn't matter what your religious stance is when you are supposedly part of a scientific community that is supposed to be objective.

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32. Comment #431213 by lordaltay on November 11, 2009 at 9:36 pm

News flash American & Europe -- The Islamic world is hopeless.

My advise is to ignore this intellectual wasteland and go on with curing diseases, discovering more about the universe, and furthering technology. You will never get a partner in your civilizing efforts from the Middle East (except from Israel.) The exceptional minds that do emerge from this region will promptly immigrate to your lands and assimilate. Keep the door open to these geniuses but shut to door to the swarm of ungrateful, hard-headed masses who insist on bringing their medieval culture with them.

Kinds regards from a Turk, in whose homeland both Richarddawkins.net and youtube.com are officially banned... Thank goodness for (Western) Civilization.

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33. Comment #431262 by daee on November 12, 2009 at 1:27 am

Here is why Muslims don't believe in the theory of evolution: Because it contradicts something they know and believe to be the truth: the Quran. Besides, the verb "believe" is reserved for far more consequential "beliefs" than science.

All scientific knowledge that we have of our universe is at best models; models that are abstractions that we as humans [should] use to our benefit. The deeper, or more tangential, we go, we often need a different model.

And how do we believe the Quran to be the truth£ Fair question. Read it and see for yourself. The least you can do before posting comments on Muslim thought and creed is to actually know what their creed is. Be at least fair.

http://www.islamicpulse.com/quran/quran_translation_saheeh_international

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34. Comment #431540 by DrawingYou on November 13, 2009 at 5:19 am

daee - I've read it, and its just another story book claiming knowledge imposable to know and moral superiority it does not deserve.

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