1. Comment #427521 by GOTT MIT UNS on October 28, 2009 at 6:04 am

Congratulations on a great book which lives up to its title.

Thank you Richard Dawkins from saving millions of young inquisitive minds from the clutches of outdated, religious dogmas and indoctrination.

Why did it take so long to openly discuss these important matters affecting the human kind so profoundly ?

Why only now, in 21 century open-minded people like yourself are accepted by the mainstream media ?

I can only hope that one day you be able to openly present these widely accepted scientific views at Turkish or even Saudi, Pakistani, Kuwaiti universities as a guest speaker (ironically all these countries are considered to be the best allies of The West in the Islamic world)...I will not hold my breath, though.


P.S.
Richard, have you ever been invited by on of the universities/educational institutions from the Islamic world ?

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2. Comment #427530 by Michael Gray on October 28, 2009 at 7:38 am

I found it quite inaudible, and had to abandon viewing it.
Is there not a way that the audio can be 'normalized' before posting?
MirageTV should have given, (and perhaps should give), it to Josh for post-tweaking?
I should like to watch it as well as listen to it, but find myself quite unable to do the latter.

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3. Comment #427534 by ozturk on October 28, 2009 at 8:06 am

Comment #427521 by GOTT MIT UNS

at Yemeni, Saudi, Pakistani or even Turkish universities

Can't help thinking this makes it sound as if Turkish institutions would be less liberal than the others. I suspect that the reverse would be the case. Also, what's with the avatar? A phrase associated with the Third Reich, and a swastika seem perhaps a trifle offensive. Am I being too sensitive here, or is there a much more subtle meaning that escapes me?

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4. Comment #427535 by SOAS on October 28, 2009 at 8:15 am

The audio is fine.
Love the introduction. "hard of thinking".

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5. Comment #427550 by SOAS on October 28, 2009 at 9:57 am

"Am I being too sensitive here"

Yes , the translation says a lot.

turkey seems to fast be losing its secularism. After all, This site is banned there.

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6. Comment #427556 by legspinner on October 28, 2009 at 10:10 am

Ozturk, I assume the contributor Gott mit uns is using that avatar to refute the common claim by the religious that National Socialism was an atheist movement.

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7. Comment #427557 by William Carlton on October 28, 2009 at 10:13 am

ozturk, I'm going to venture a guess and say you're being a little hasty. There's nothing trollish about the above post to suggest that anything inappropriate was intended by the user's avatar. I would suspect that the historical allusion is meant to answer the oft-cited fallacy that the Nazis necessarily represented atheism. Yeah, not when their belt buckle says "God with us".

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8. Comment #427560 by GOTT MIT UNS on October 28, 2009 at 10:29 am

Thank SOAS for your "rescue mission".

I am also very surprised that our Turkish friend from Down Under doesn't understand that self-explanatory inscription on the belt buckles of Nazi SS soldiers and its message.
I hope that my avatar (and my nick) will force our god-fearing friends to think before they EVER AGAIN use their very common and false argument about alleged atheistic nature of the Nazi genocidal regime.


P.S.
Fair dinkum OzTurk, I am prepared to alter my previous comment about Turkish "secularism" as soon as Turkish authorities withdraw ban on RichardDawkiuns.net.

I think I am being very generous here...

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9. Comment #427573 by RainDear on October 28, 2009 at 11:37 am

Gott mit uns,

I think it was Churchill (?) who said "Use irony and you'll give the best speech you'll ever regret." So using a religious nazi emblem against religion and nazism can be a surprisingly difficult trick to pull off. Humour doesn't travel well over the cultural barriers, and irony has even bigger transfer problems even over a garden fence. Just to warn my fellow thinkers and occasional debaters here.

BTW, similar nazi-christian material seems to be available all over the net, at least at http://nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm. I have no deeper info of nor connection to any of these sites, but the pictures don't seem like fakes.

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10. Comment #427574 by Dhamma on October 28, 2009 at 11:42 am

I can't wait to listen to this when I go to bed. Does anyone know if there's an mp3 of this somewhere?

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11. Comment #427575 by rod-the-farmer on October 28, 2009 at 11:44 am

I agree. "Hard of thinking" is quite precious.

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12. Comment #427579 by ozturk on October 28, 2009 at 12:13 pm

OK folks, regarding Gott mit uns and the avatar - thanks, and I get it. (Not sure if it works, but I get it). And I'm not defending the Turkish authorities here, but when individuals use and abuse the courts for their own nasty purposes, it doesn't necessarily reflect the values of the country or its people. Sorry - all this is a bit off topic. Cheers.

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13. Comment #427582 by GOTT MIT UNS on October 28, 2009 at 12:22 pm

Dear RainDear

Main intention of my post was to thank Richard Dawkins for saving thousands of (especially) young Americans (mostly from the Southern Bible Belt) from the clutches of the the nonsensical, and backward religious indoctrination.
I truly believe that his latest brilliant, enlightening book accompanied by public lectures will result in encouraging thousands of intelligent and inquisitive kids all over the world to pursue path of free inquiry and scientific progress in the name of human solidarity and universal values.
I am somewhat surprised that you focus your attention on my thought provoking avatar with which only OzTurk and a broad-minded person like yourself seem to have a minor problem.

Secular and humanist greetings.

P.S.
For the record: my godmother who survived KL Auschwitz (prisoner number 25541) confirmed that it was run mostly by German and AUSTRIAN (fact frequently forgotten) Catholics in SS uniforms (with GOTT MIT UNS on their belt buckles).The same guys who almost every day poured Zyklon B granules into the gas chambers. She kept repeating that there was no god in Auschwitz.
She survived thanks to her own stamina and self-reliance coupled with human solidarity between inmates....and the "godless" Soviet soldiers who liberated her just in time.
Although my godmother was born in a Catholic family after the war she never set her foot in a church.

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14. Comment #427590 by Art Vandelay on October 28, 2009 at 12:48 pm

RainDear,

But humour is our chief weapon against religion: humour and irony- our two chief weapons against religion are humour and irony. And reason. Our three chief weapons...

Irony serves the very useful function of pointing up the inconsistencies and absurdities of religions, and we all need to be told not to take ourselves too seriously from time to time. Religion surely cries out for mickey-taking and the deflating of pompous egos. Where would we be without the FSM, the crocoduck, Mr Deity, Jesus and Mo, Mitchell and Webb, Pat Condel, PZ Myers, and of course Richard, who has been known to crack the odd joke?
If people don't get irony right now, they will with our help.

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15. Comment #427591 by ozturk on October 28, 2009 at 1:06 pm

@Gott mit uns - I've appreciated your posts, and what's more I've done a complete 180. I've decided I actually like your avatar and the ideas and philosophy behind it. Couldn't agree more about the large number of catholics involved in the SS and camps - a fact that catholic friends find hard to believe. Cheers.

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16. Comment #427594 by PERSON on October 28, 2009 at 1:12 pm

I can imagine a great spoof ad along the lines of "CO2 is life", starting off with something like "Hysterical liberals and radical environmentalists always present global mass extinction as a bad thing. Well I'm here to put the other side"

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17. Comment #427596 by catlover on October 28, 2009 at 1:16 pm

Ruth Wishart the chairperson is absolutely brilliant!

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18. Comment #427597 by UncleJJ on October 28, 2009 at 1:16 pm

Very interesting presentation of his book (which I'm still reading) and some great follow up questions from the chairwoman and the audience. Probably the best of the recent videos of Richard, at least in terms of new content although we are spoilt for choice at present and there are so many.

Many thanks to Richard and the RDF for keeping us entertained and informed.

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19. Comment #427599 by Sally Luxmoore on October 28, 2009 at 1:26 pm

I really enjoyed this talk and also loved the introduction. I liked the very dry wit - 'the hard of thinking' was a real gem.

I thought it was a very typically Edinburgh audience. They listened very quietly and evidently with concentration and the subsequent questions were definitely more original and interesting than usual.

Edit: I didn't realise they all got to receive early copies of the book - lucky them!

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20. Comment #427636 by BeyondBelief on October 28, 2009 at 3:58 pm

Brilliant introduction, and (Gott Mit Uns) Brilliant avatar! I think this may be the best available, quickly apprehensible, proof that Hitler was not atheistic and used religious justifications for his actions.

[edit] After watching the entire thing, this may be the best interview Dawkins has given; the best moderator of any Dawkins Interview; and hands down the best set of unscripted, thoughtful questions I have ever heard. BRILLIANT!!!

AT 52:00 the discussion turns toward human intellect "wanting" to build an anti-Darwinian society. Will an anti-Darwinian society survive? What is to say that Richard's desire might fail the competition... and doesn’t this kind of talk get into group selection?

It might be one thing to say, "I believe that as a result of the (as yet unproven) fact that altruism begets a healthier society in the long run, we will evolve an anti-Darwinian society."

That is still Darwinian. This is interesting and confusing. :-)

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21. Comment #427675 by Dhamma on October 28, 2009 at 5:32 pm

BeyondBelief,

Some would claim Hitler only used religion as a tool. I think that might possibly be true, however, the soldiers that DID believe in God, still murdered millions.

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22. Comment #427742 by RainDear on October 28, 2009 at 8:44 pm

Art Vandelay & Gott mit uns --

Ok, it seems my post was a bit misunderstood. Apparently poor communication on my part. I certainly didn’t mean to discourage using humour in debates. I neither have a problem with the GMU avatar nor an intention to derail this conversation from the actual topic, which is the Edinburgh video clip. I just had a half hour spare time today, and the Ozturk comment happened to catch my eye.

But since I was misunderstood, let me clarify. Please pardon my lack of brevity.

In fact, I think the Gott mit uns avatar is both clever and provocative. It pretty much buries the silly and preposterous argument the likes of Ben Stein or Dinesh D’Souza have been trying to make about connecting atheism, darwinism and fascism.

In my earlier post, I focused my attention on this avatar only because someone clearly misunderstood the idea behind it. And I found this misunderstanding interesting. To be honest, more interesting than commending RD’s performance, since RD seems to be brilliant everywhere everytime anyway and most of us keep thanking him for his work every week. Which I do think he deserves, lest it be forgotten.

In this avatar case, I was only commenting from my own experience in both media and comedy. It is my observation that irony is a difficult genre of humour. It demands certain background knowledge of the forum and the situation and even of the person using it.

If I see this Gott mit uns belt buckle as an avatar on this RD net site, I assume it means that the owner of the avatar wishes to imply that fascism is by no means atheistic.

But if I see a bald man wearing this belt buckle to a football match, I assume he’s a racist son of a bitch, possibly looking forward to beating a few poor immigrants this evening.

I didn’t mean we shouldn’t use humour, humour is arguably the best way to open doors. But I just reminded it can be so easily misunderstood. If you go to Tehran and start telling jokes about jews and catholics, no one is going to think you are actually promoting secular values. To come across correctly, humour, especially irony, demands certain common background from you and your audience. And this background is different depending on geography, cultural or personal history, level of education etc.

In this sense, humour doesn’t travel well. But I still think you should never leave home without it.

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23. Comment #427775 by Stephen Maxwell on October 28, 2009 at 10:42 pm

Was that David Robertson asking the second from last question?

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24. Comment #427779 by Kiwi on October 28, 2009 at 10:53 pm

For those who are unable to access the link above, try
http://nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm

the full stop at the end is creating the error.

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25. Comment #427786 by GOTT MIT UNS on October 28, 2009 at 11:34 pm

Dear OzTurk and RainDear,

Thank you for clarification of your stand on the issue of my avatar/nick.

On the other hand I am a bit surprised that Richard Dawkins does not use this (or similar) avatar in his key-note presentations as a powerful argument against the likes of Stein or De Sousa.

Cheers

P.S.
I added my godmother's little story to explain to you where I am coming from (geographically, historically and morally).

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26. Comment #427826 by InYourFaceNewYorker on October 29, 2009 at 4:09 am

27:25 Larger than googol is googolplex... 10^googol... One of my token phrases that I say to people is, "Thanks a googolplex." XD

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27. Comment #427838 by quaredunt on October 29, 2009 at 5:02 am

Thanks a googolplex, RD, and all you bloggers out there who finally made it all come together.
Gott mit uns! I finally see the light! I had an aunt, a nun, who had a book of piano music that she re-covered and wrote on the new cover ...
"Ireland Uber Alles!" Funny how these little things come back to you! You'd never get a good Catholic doing a thing like that, now would you? ... and of course we all revered her! Wonderful woman! Devout, a teacher who never did nobody no harm. Gott bless her!

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28. Comment #427848 by zengardener on October 29, 2009 at 5:40 am

1:56

...while being fully accessible to the hard of thinking.

, had me desperately trying to contain my chuckles.

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29. Comment #427853 by Quine on October 29, 2009 at 6:00 am

Comment #427535 by SOAS:

Love the introduction. "hard of thinking"

She was delightfully crafty.

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30. Comment #427880 by GOTT MIT UNS on October 29, 2009 at 8:26 am

Quaredunt,
Tx for sharing your family story.
Quite a number of former SS guards from of the Nazi death camps ended up in South America, Middle East and apparently in Rep. of Ireland(?) with an active help of Vatican.

Where a former Hitlerjugend member Herr Ratzinger would be now had the Nazis won WWII ?

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31. Comment #427887 by proveit on October 29, 2009 at 9:16 am

Richard, any chance you could drop by New Zealand on your way through the Southern hemisphere? Would love to see you here. From a British expat.

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32. Comment #427891 by Art Vandelay on October 29, 2009 at 9:28 am

RainDear,
Fair point, well put.

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33. Comment #427914 by legspinner on October 29, 2009 at 11:24 am

Proveit, at the risk of sounding cheeky, if you emigrate to a far-flung corner of the world then what do you expect? ;)

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34. Comment #427915 by nickthelight on October 29, 2009 at 11:39 am

Dear all

I have a ticket (£15) avaliable for the following event:

Atheism is the new fundamentalism
With Prof Dawkins and A C Grayling

The Event will be held on the 29th November at Wellington College, Crowthorne, Berkshire, UK.


http://www.intelligencesquared.com/events.php?event=EVT0204

I can no longer attend. If you'd like the ticket (it's actually an email) please contact me

nickthelight@gmail.com

thanks

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35. Comment #427921 by SOAS on October 29, 2009 at 12:10 pm

A bit off topic but a local 'Chritadelphian" church has put a flyer through the whole of our area in Nottingham.( set out like the Book)

Your invitation to a a public talk. Is god a delusion a response to Dawkins.

"Richard Dawkins has become the leading advocate of aggresive atheism, suggesting in his book that those who believe are misguided ,dangerous and deluded. He also claims the evidence for evolution is overwhelming.
In hi presentation, is god a delusion? John Botten takes a critical look @ the core assumtions of Dawkin's beliefs about God and the theory of evolution int the context of the 150th anniversary ot the publicationot Origin of species and looks at biblical alternatives."

this is 8th November 6pm ( god willing) at the Christadelphian hall 72 forest rd west Nottingham NG7 4EP.. UK

www.nottingham-christadelphians.org.uk

I thing I may go visit and take a posse. Should be interesting.

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36. Comment #427987 by Mayer200 on October 29, 2009 at 3:52 pm

Very Educational and Somewhat Witty into. to Richard's latest bestseller to be. I would be very interested to know how after the destruction of the dinosaurs, species such as commodo dragons and iguana's survived. My possible guess is that because they lived on isolated island's they were not affected by the great cretatious catastrophe and crocodiles who are also a type of dinosaur possibly survived by living under water. This is all guesswork. Its also interesting how large birds who are also dinosaurs survived.

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37. Comment #428028 by quaredunt on October 29, 2009 at 6:00 pm

Comment #427880 by GOTT MIT UNS

I'm just beginning to find out how Ireland dealt with Nazis.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1538969/Ireland-welcomed-Hitlers-henchmen.html

I don't trust the Telegraph but it looks like this article was about an Irish-made TV program, so Ireland seems at least to be trying to come to terms with its past.

Neil Belton's novel about the Austrian physicist Schrodinger's time in Ireland reveals some very disturbing things about the government and the society there at the time. Dead cat in the cupboard?

http://www.orionbooks.co.uk/HB-1237/a-game-with-sharpened-knives.htm

Other Comments by quaredunt

38. Comment #428103 by GOTT MIT UNS on October 29, 2009 at 10:29 pm

Tx Quaredund for the links and interesting comments.

I have a personal interest in the matter since almost 50% of my family on both parental sides were wiped out by the Nazis during WWII.

Was Irish sympathy for the Nazis during (and even after) the war result of the common anti-Britishness or Catholic/Christian solidarity (Nazi crusade against godless bolshevism : civil war in Spain and the invasion of UdSSR)?

As far as skeletons in the closet are concerned: The Irish, Vatican, Austrian and even Swiss historians have not addressed many moral issues related to WWII to this day.

My late godmother was appalled when she heard some Austrian historians shamelessly claim that Austria was a victim of Nazism herself.
"Not if majority of SS staff in Women's camp in Birkenau (her original camp) consisted of Austrian practicing Catholics" - was her answer.

Unlike Germany - Austria never undergone an official denazification.
Vatican and none of the catholic and protestant churches ever condemned and excommunicated their members, who participated in war crimes/genocide.

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39. Comment #428125 by quaredunt on October 29, 2009 at 11:40 pm

Comment #428103 by GOTT MIT UNS

I think you hit the nail a number of cracks on the head right there but the root of the Irish sympathy for Nazism has to have been Catholicism.
I have arrived at that conclusion by seeing the history of my erstwhile country and the history of my own family, through the lens of a just-found atheism. Things are still a bit out of focus but sharpening every day.

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40. Comment #428129 by Notstrident on October 30, 2009 at 12:07 am

The views of the audience show them as being appropriately dressed for a serious lecture, better than the audiences I have seen on videos from the US and England. Class people, those Scots.

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41. Comment #428271 by debaser71 on October 30, 2009 at 3:03 pm

Either Richards jokes are getting stale or the audience was just blah.

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42. Comment #428286 by Follow Peter Egan on October 30, 2009 at 3:34 pm

Always a pleasure to hear Richard read from his books, like a modern day Dickens.

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43. Comment #428290 by robotaholic on October 30, 2009 at 3:41 pm

That was awesome Richard Dawkins. I enjoy listening to your lectures so much. I read this book cover to cover in like 2 days and learned so much.
That introduction was great too.
This is one of the best lectures on biology by Dawkins I've seen in a long time. When Dawkins gets going on biology he really shines. Definitely rated as excellent.

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44. Comment #428308 by robotaholic on October 30, 2009 at 4:21 pm

question at 41:30 or so - seems to me the people of UK should be put in USA and the ppl of USA should be put in UK lol - then it would make sense-

I really don't know either why Americans are so religious yet have the only truly secular government and the ppl of UK are so secular yet live in a government that is totally dunked in christianity - it's kind of weird don't you think?

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45. Comment #428337 by Philster61 on October 30, 2009 at 5:44 pm

Bugger. I was in Edinburgh in september. When was the book festival?

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46. Comment #428351 by debaser71 on October 30, 2009 at 6:43 pm

That the US is religious is no surprise because here we have freedom of religion. Therefore religions don't have to literally compete with the official state religion. This (mostly) hands off approach of the US government regarding religion has allowed religion to flourish. Susan Jacoby has made this point. It's ironic but makes perfect sense.

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47. Comment #428502 by seals on October 31, 2009 at 12:00 pm

comment 40 - It's possible they avoided filming the more scruffy types - I had my denim jacket with me (not on at the talk itself, it was a warmish day).
comment 41 - I thought that the audience laughter was louder, when sitting in the audience, than apparent from this recording.
comment 45 - This event at the book festival was on 31 August, the last day.

Other Comments by seals

48. Comment #428539 by hfaber on October 31, 2009 at 3:02 pm

The Dutch version of the greatest show on earth is now available: "Het grootste spektakel ter wereld". I have my copy, yippiaeeehhh!!!

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49. Comment #428919 by dudette on November 2, 2009 at 3:39 pm

I'm selling my

Ticket to soldout event with Richard Dawkins in Bath tomorrow!

Only £20!

With the ticket comes a signed copy of 'The Greatest Show on Earth'!

I bought it over the phone, so you can pick it up in my name, and then send me the money afterwards. The event is listed on this site if you want more info.

If you're interested, please call me on

0750 214 7730 (British number) or mail on

martas@mail.djh.dk

Bye :)

Other Comments by dudette

50. Comment #429181 by Michael Gray on November 3, 2009 at 8:38 am

Ignore my rant about the audio. I am forced by circumstance into 'using' Windows Vista, and it seems that it has a special 'feature' in certain circumstances whereby one may reduce the audio volume, but not subsequently increase it...

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